--

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Thu Jun  1 11:44:05 1995
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>>I am wondering if the GNX really used the 6801, or if
>>it was really a 6811. Anyone know this for sure?
>
>I think that that CPU was referred to as the GMP4,
>it was a custom for GM, that used a 6801 core.
>
>ed
>--
On the GN from 84 thru 87 including the 87 1/2 GNX, they used the GM P3..
The P4 was used after 87, including the Syclone and Typhoon. (91-93)
Later,
Dave
===================================================================
David Cooley  AKA N5XMT                      Fax: (919) 319-2896       
Powered by WINDOWS 95!                       VM:  (800) 753-6336
cooldave@xxx. 2718
cooley@xxx.com                
===================================================================


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Thu Jun  1 13:54:13 1995
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From: John S Gwynne <jsg>
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Please send postings to diy_efi@xxx.


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From: "David Allen" <allent@xxx.com>
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I am seeking basic information on reading and decoding the single 
line serial output data of the Assembly Line Diagnostic Link (ALDL) in my 
1988 Chevy Van.   Although interestting, I am not as concerned about 
modifying the EPROM or getting at the CPU innards or operation -- I 
just want to know how I can deciper the data stream.   It seems it 
should be a repetitive or cyclic data burst marked by framing bits.  
Any steer or information you could shed on this would be appreciated. 
 I would like to fiddle with decoding the data and perhaps using some 
Visual Basic, providing a windows-based readout, as close as possible 
to real-time.

Many Thanks, 

Dave Allen
WA2BSL
allent@xxx.com

------- End of Forwarded Message


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Thu Jun  1 15:28:16 1995
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Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:20:58 ET
From: John T Stein <JSTEIN@xxx.com>
Subject: re: Re: Re: Off-idle stumble resulting from ported EGR
To: diy_efi
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> lusky@xxx. Lusky) Wrote:
> | 
> | 
> | Steve=Ravet%Prj=Eng%PCPD=Hou@xxx.com writes:
> | > I've seen this exact problem in two '86 4x4 S-10 blazers (3.8 
> | v6?) and an '88 
> | > corsica (also 3.8 v6?).  I never thought it was related, but 
> | now I wonder.  
> | > This probably belongs on rec.auto.tech, but since someone else 
> | brought it up, 
> | > I thought I'd offer my piece.  Anyway, the symptom is 
> | hesitation just off 
> | > idle.  Give it a little more throttle and it is cured, but it 
> | persists as long 
> | > as the the throttle is held barely open.  It is a feature on 
> | the corsica 
> | > (had the problem since new), may be a bug or feature on the 
> | blazers, since 
> | > they were used by the time I drove them.
> | 
> | Hmmm, 86 & 88 GM 2.8 V6?  Don't those have the infamous GM MAF disease?
> | If so, you need to the update PROM that converts the EFI over to speed
> | density.
> | 
> | -- 
> | Jonathan R. Lusky                        lusky@xxx.edu
> | http://www.edge.net/~lusky/                 (615) 726-8700


I don't think the problem was MAF-related, or even unique to FI 
engines, the '83 2.8 L V6 on which I first saw the problem had a 
carburator (remember those??).  

Also, the stumble appeared to be a transient issue, if one held the throttle 
static just "off idle" the engine would stumble but eventually get its act together.  
It was almost as if the EGR valve "overshot", over-diluting the 
fuel / air mixture  when confronted with the sudden 
application of vacuum when the throttle plate first uncovered the 
EGR. port and eventually settled to a stable point which did not 
over-dilute the mixture. 

Does this mechanism  sound reasonable?  If so, anyone have suggestions to 
correct it, short of putting the EGR under ECM control.  A restriction 
in the EGR vacuum feed (a pneumatic low-pass) is not a contender as 
the EGR valve has an internal vacuum bleed.

Thanks,

John

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Thu Jun  1 16:11:52 1995
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From: bohdan@xxx.com (Bohdan L Bodnar)
To: diy_efi
Subject: re: Re: Re: Off-idle stumble resulting from ported EGR
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OK...now you've perked my interest.  Try the following as a failure
mechanism:

1). EGR valve has carbon deposits
2). Normal EGR control vacuum (AVERAGE vacuum) slightly off idle and no load
    on engine is about 5" Hg
3). You open the throttle
4). Backpressure transducer applies control vacuum to the valve;  however, the
    deposits prevent it from opening (or cause it open VERY slowly)
5). More control vacuum is applied
6). Valve snaps open, "over-EGR-ing" the engine
7). Engine stumbles, valve now operates more-or-less normally, control
    vacuum drops back to roughly what it should be.

The 5" Hg is typical for engines at very light load and just off of idle.
Higher readings suggest a malfunction in the transducer or restricted valve or
EGR tube venting to atmosphere instead of the valve assembly.

Incidently, some PWM controlled EGR valves don't have a control vacuum line;
the EGR flow is inferred from MAF readings (and probably a bunch of other
things).

Cordially,

Bohdan Bodnar


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Fri Jun  2 23:46:18 1995
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Subject:       Re: Off-idle stumble resulting from ported EGR
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> | 
> | Hmmm, 86 & 88 GM 2.8 V6?  Don't those have the infamous GM MAF disease?
> | If so, you need to the update PROM that converts the EFI over to speed
> | density.
> | 
> | -- 
> | Jonathan R. Lusky                        lusky@xxx.edu
> | http://www.edge.net/~lusky/                 (615) 726-8700

Could someone shed some light on this?  What update PROM that 
converts from MAF to speed density?  Did we (GM) do this?  Any info 
would be helpful as I'm trying to do this very thing!
*********************************************************************** 
Tom (or Nellie) Chou,  nachou@xxx.com
(317)451-7970 (Tom), 7619 (Nel), 317-868-9672 (evenings)
Unless indicated otherwise, the opinions expressed here are personal 
& NOT an official statement of General Motors / Delco Electronics.           
***********************************************************************

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Sat Jun  3 00:05:04 1995
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========================================================
>>I am wondering if the GNX really used the 6801, or if
>>it was really a 6811. Anyone know this for sure?
>
>I think that that CPU was referred to as the GMP4,
>it was a custom for GM, that used a 6801 core.
>
>ed
>--
On the GN from 84 thru 87 including the 87 1/2 GNX, they used the GM P3..
The P4 was used after 87, including the Syclone and Typhoon. (91-93)
Later,
Dave
=====================================================================
That's not quite correct - it wasn't called a GMP3, it was the GMCM 
(GM Custom Micro).  I don't think we ever had a processor named GMP3.
*********************************************************************** 
Tom (or Nellie) Chou,  nachou@xxx.com
(317)451-7970 (Tom), 7619 (Nel), 317-868-9672 (evenings)
Unless indicated otherwise, the opinions expressed here are personal 
& NOT an official statement of General Motors / Delco Electronics.           
***********************************************************************

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Sat Jun  3 00:47:39 1995
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Date: Fri, 02 Jun 1995 20:48:05 -0400
To: diy_efi
From: cooldave@xxx.net (David Cooley)
Subject: Re: Off-idle stumble resulting from ported EGR
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>
>Could someone shed some light on this?  What update PROM that 
>converts from MAF to speed density?  Did we (GM) do this?  Any info 
>would be helpful as I'm trying to do this very thing!

Tom,
There was a TSB for the 2.8's with the MAF system, that called for a
replacement eprom... The new eprom disabled the maf, and it could be
removed... I believe it was done on the fiero's before any others were
affected... I have the eprom part numbers at home... I'll post them tomorrow.
Later,
Dave
==============================================================================
David Cooley  AKA N5XMT                                 (919) 319-2734 Office
cooldave@xxx.net                                      (919) 319-2896 FAX
Powered by WINDOWS 95!                                  (800) 753-6336 VM
==============================================================================


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Tue Jun  6 03:33:39 1995
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To: diy_efi, efi332
Subject: [admin] Intermittent list service for the next month
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 95 23:31:07 -0400
From: John S Gwynne <jsg>
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--------

As always, summers are a very busy time for me and Coulomb
(the computer servicing our mailing list). During the next
month, you can expect intermittent list service as Coulomb
will not always be available. I recommend posting as usual,
but don't be surprised by response time delays. Your local
mailer should queue your email (typically for up to 7 days)
until this computer is back on line. I will try to bring the
system back in the evenings as often as is practical.

My apologies for the inconvenience....

For those interested, Coulomb provides data storage and image
processing services for one of the radars we use to make radar
cross section measurements (RCS). During the next month, we
will be making outdoor RCS measurement at the OSU "Big Ear"
radio telescope (which we use as a LARGE compact range).


                                       John S Gwynne
                                          Gwynne.1@xxx.edu
_______________________________________________________________________________
               T h e   O h i o - S t a t e   U n i v e r s i t y
    ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA
                Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7297
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Tue Jun  6 14:11:32 1995
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Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 10:09:22 -0400
From: bowling@xxx.gov (Bruce Bowling)
Message-Id: <9506061409.AA26255@xxx.gov>
To: DIY_EFI
Subject: Event loops
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A question on event loops in OEM EFI's......

There appears to me that there are several methods to 
handle the global "events" of computing injector pulse
widths and timing.  Some that come to mind are the following
(I am assumimg a model similar to the '332 TPU section,
which handles the timing of injector firing and provides
interrupts for events like TDC.)

Note: the names for each of the methods I picked out of my head.....

Method 1: 360/720 degree firing:  One computes ALL of the FI parameters
(table lookups, etc) for all of the injectors once a crankshaft revolution
(batch) or once every two revolutions (sequential).

Method 2: 90 degree firing: When injector N is firing, compute the firing
parameters for injector N+1.

Method 3: Priority computation:  Re-compute when something changes - 
sample TPS, MAP and other sensors which have quick response at a
higher rate than slower-changing sensors such a water temp.

There are other.....

So what method(s) do the OEM use?



-----------------------------------------------------
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
-----------------------------------------------------
               Bruce A. Bowling
  Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls
 The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility
    12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602
                 (804) 249-7240
               bowling@xxx.gov
-----------------------------------------------------
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
-----------------------------------------------------

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Tue Jun  6 15:12:01 1995
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Date: Tue, 06 Jun 1995 08:10:30 -0700
To: diy_efi
From: today@xxx.com (Todd Day)
Subject: Re: Event loops
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>So what method(s) do the OEM use?

>Method 2: 90 degree firing: When injector N is firing, compute the firing
>parameters for injector N+1.

This is what the DSM (Eagle Talon and clones) ECUs do.  The computation is
made from several other precomputed variables at the end of each firing
interrupt.  There is a slow loop (non-interrupt driven) that is constantly
updating all the variables that the interrupt routine needs (and does the
relatively slow jobs of table lookup, etc).

The Audi Quattro in the early 80's does this too.  I suspect it might be
a popular way of doing things since it is very straight forward and almost
all CPUs these days have enough HP to do it.

-todd-


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Wed Jun  7 17:13:28 1995
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To: DIY_EFI
From: gar@xxx.com (Garry Peterson)
Subject: Weather Pack Connectors
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Does anybody know of a good source of GM Weather Pack Connectors? The local
GM dealer has limited availibility and high pricing.

Thanks,
Garry


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Wed Jun  7 17:53:25 1995
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Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 13:51:33 -0400
From: MSargent@xxx. Sargent)
Message-Id: <9506071751.AA09341@xxx.com>
To: diy_efi
Subject: Re:  Weather Pack Connectors
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MSD uses some very nice wheather resistant connectors on their marine
equiptment. You can order packages with one male and one female connector, with from 1 to 6 conductors, or you can order bulk pack (10 or 25 per pack I think).
Summit Racing carries them, and their prices are quite good.

However, if you need something to mate to existing GM connectors, this won't
help much.
           Mike
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael F. Sargent   | Net: msargent@xxx.com | Phone: 1(613)721-0902 |
| Gallium Software Inc.|                           | FAX:   1(613)721-1278 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Wed Jun  7 18:44:38 1995
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Date: Wed, 07 Jun 1995 14:42:37 -0400
To: diy_efi
From: cooldave@xxx.net (David Cooley)
Subject: Re: Weather Pack Connectors
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>Does anybody know of a good source of GM Weather Pack Connectors? The local
>GM dealer has limited availibility and high pricing.
>
>Thanks,
>Garry

There is a guy on Compuserve, name is John Flagg.. Owns or works for GMPP
parts.. They make wiring harnesses and connectors, and have ALL the
weatherpack connectors etc. at really good prices..
Don't have his number though..
Later,
Dave
==============================================================================
David Cooley  AKA N5XMT                                 (919) 319-2734 Office
cooldave@xxx.net                                      (919) 319-2896 FAX
Powered by WINDOWS 95!                                  (800) 753-6336 VM
==============================================================================


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Wed Jun  7 19:09:37 1995
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Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 15:04:05 -0400
From: bowling@xxx.gov (Bruce Bowling)
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To: diy_efi
Subject: Re:  Weather Pack Connectors
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Electromotive sells some Weatherpack connectors, but
at a price that compares with gold or silver

- Bruce

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Wed Jun  7 19:53:08 1995
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From: "Lawrence E. Piekarski" <c1ilep@xxx.com>
Message-Id: <9506071951.AA03972@xxx.com>
Subject: Re: Weather Pack Connectors
To: diy_efi
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 14:51:40 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <9506071842.AA17914@xxx.net> from "David Cooley" at Jun 7, 95 02:42:37 pm
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>
>Does anybody know of a good source of GM Weather Pack Connectors? The local
>GM dealer has limited availability and high pricing.
>
>Thanks,
>Garry
>

When I have ordered test instrumentation from third party vendors, I believe
they purchased all their "GM" parts from Pioneer Electronics. I don't know
if Pioneer will sell to anyone, or just third party suppliers to GM. All
the vendors I have dealt with are in Indianapolis, so if the Pioneer in your
area doesn't know anything about them, try the one in Indy. Other big
GM cities include Detroit, Dayton, and Flint.
-- 
(* Larry Piekarski, Lead Software Engineer *)
(*      Luxury Car HVAC Display Heads      *)
(*      c1ilep@xxx.com     *)
(*      Delco Electronics, Kokomo, IN      *)

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Wed Jun  7 21:23:56 1995
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From: derek_deeter@xxx.COM (Derek Deeter)
To: diy_efi
Subject: Re: Weather Pack Connectors
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Three places, one of which ought to be able to help you out:

Dr. K's Automotive Wiring Systems
No. 11 Lakefront Ave.
Gasden, AL 35903

(205) 543-7165
(800) 323-9384

--------------------------------

Centech, INC.
Perkiomenville, PA
800-356-0356 (orders)
215-287-5730 (info)
215-287-6707

--------------------------------

Ron Francis Wires Works
800-292-1940 (order line)
215-485-1937 (info line)


-- 
Derek Deeter                           derekd@xxx.com
Mentor Graphics Corp.
8005 S.W. Boeckman Rd.,  Wilsonville, OR 97070-7777

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Thu Jun  8 08:52:08 1995
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Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 23:32:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Lane <blane@xxx.com>
To: DIY_EFI
Subject: Still Subscribed
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  Am I still subscribed to this list? (as blane@xxx.com)? If so I need 
to be switched to blane@xxx.

  Pardon me for the interruption :)

  Brian

---
G.U.E. Technical Institute  /  Electronics / Privacy / IF  /  (206)845-xxxx


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Thu Jun  8 13:01:34 1995
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From: "Ucu M Subrata" <UCU@xxx.id>
To: diy_efi
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> Date sent:      Wed, 7 Jun 1995 23:32:44 -0700 (PDT)
> From:           Brian Lane <blane@xxx.com>
> To:             DIY_EFI@xxx.edu
> Subject:        Still Subscribed
> Send reply to:  diy_efi@xxx.edu

> 
>   Am I still subscribed to this list? (as blane@xxx.com)? If so I need 
> to be switched to blane@xxx.
> 
>   Pardon me for the interruption :)
> 
>   Brian
> 
> ---
> G.U.E. Technical Institute  /  Electronics / Privacy / IF  /  (206)845-xxxx
> 


Hi, nice to meet you..(and all of you)
I've just subscribe this mailing list a few hour ago (found it from 
www)

I'm now doing a modification to "Toyota Kijang"(Indonesia-produced 
Toyota Car) for CNG(Compressed Natural Gas/Methane) Injection System

Does CNG fuel popular there??..(in Indonesia we have plenty of CNG 
sources but still CNG hasn't become a popular alternative fuel for 
motorcar here)

 See you 
Ucu M Subrata
Research Engineer

*Lab.of Combustion Engine and Propulsion System
 Institut Teknologi Bandung, Jl.Ganesha 10
 BANDUNG,40116.INDONESIA Ph/Fax:62-22-2503394
 
*Lab.of IC Processing, Inter University on Microelectronics
 Institut Teknologi Bandung,Jl.Ganesha 10
 BANDUNG,40116.INDONESIA Ph:2504987 ext 1371 Fax:2508763
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Thu Jun  8 14:08:16 1995
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Subject: Re: Still Subscribed
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950607232440.20773B-100000@xxx.com> from "Brian Lane" at Jun 7, 95 11:32:44 pm
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]  Am I still subscribed to this list? (as blane@xxx.com)? If so I need 
]to be switched to blane@xxx.
]
]  Pardon me for the interruption :)
]
]  Brian

geez, sorry. I run the bmw motorcycle list and neglected to look at the
headers of the message. ignore my post :-)

I get so many of those it's hard to remember to distinguish...

sorry to all again...

-- 
Joe Senner
http://www.onr.com/user/joe.html

         Put your bones on the line, ride US129

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Sun Jun 11 07:13:50 1995
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To: DIY_EFI
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 95 01:23 CDT
From: ricrain@xxx.net (Ric Rainbolt)
Subject: Custom EFI project
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Hi.  I've been lurking this group for about a month and now I have some
questions.  I am building a custom EFI computer for a car of mine that
currently has mechanical fuel injection and a simple electronic-advance
system with distributors.  I would like to give you some background
information on my endeavours.

The engine that I am using as my test bed is an aluminum 3.0 litre 90 deg.
V-8, with aluminum two-valve DOHC heads.  I am currently in the process of
rebuilding the motor to strengthen the bottom end.  When done, it will have
a billet forged crankshaft, forged aluminum pistons with a 7.2:1 compression
ratio.  I am converting it to electronic port fuel injection and
distributorless ignition.  After I have the engine operating with normal
aspiration, I will be adding a pair of Garrett turbochargers (hence the low
C/R) plumbed through at least one air-to-air intercooler (air-to-water is
also a possibility).  Also, I am converting the lubrication system from wet
sump to dry, though this has no impact on the EFI! :-)  I will be using
eight Bosch fuel injectors (19lb/hr @xxx.  Fuel pressure will be 3-6
bar, controlled by the EFI.  Oh, yea, pump gasoline 91 octane or better.
Redline will be 8500 RPM.  Boost pressure will be limited to 1 bar.
Expected output is 380-400 HP, up from 205 HP.

The CPU I have selected, due to exposure and access to tools, is a Phillips
SAB80C167 (or C167).  If you are not familiar with the C167, it has:  16-bit
10 MIPS sustained, 16-channel 10-bit A/D, 5 timer/counters, PWM, 2
capture/compare units, 50+ I/O lines, etc.  Should be more than adequate, eh?

Here's how I'm going to proceed (once the engine is rebuilt):

** STAGE I **

First, I'm going to get the engine to crank and idle (800 PRM).  At this
time, I will be using the stock ignition system, which is known good.  So,
basically all I'll need to implement is a group fired (1 bank of 8; i.e. all
together) injection scheme to meter fuel the same way an "electronic
carburetor" works.  The sensors that will be used are: Throttle position
sensor (TPS), system voltage (SYSV), exhaust Lambda (O2), top-dead-center
(TDC), manifold pressure (MAP) and engine speed (RPM).  At this time,
coolant and air temp will be ignored. Any guestimates as to initial pulse
duration (duty cycle) for the injectors to idle??

** STAGE II **

Next, I will create a "basic" fuel map that is linearly proportional to
manifold pressure and RPM (in other words, estimated airflow).  Then I will
run the engine at varying engine speeds from idle to 6500 RPM under no load
and tweak the fuel map to achieve stochiometry.  After this, "Throttle Pump"
and "Decelerative Fuel Cut" will be implemented.

** STAGE III **

Next, I will rewrite the fuel injection control to drive the injectors as 4
banks of 2.  The OEMs do this and I have read that, other than cutting the
driver count in half, it provides cooling for the intake valve by wetting
with the out-of-phase pulse.  Is this true or should I opt for true
sequential injection??

** STAGE IV **

Then, I will add adjustments for the fuel curves for changes in intake air
temp (IAT), coolant temp (CLT), just-after-start enrichment and system
voltage (SYSV).

** STAGE V **

Saturn V? No, stage five.
I will now to remove the stock igniton modules and connect them to a test
harness which will be controlled by a PC.  I will step through all MAP and
RPM values and record the OEM ignition advance map.  Then, I will program
this in as my "base" map into my EFI and test my EFI using the same harness
to verify the implementation.
Now to install my ignition components on the engine and say "goodbye" to the
distributors forever!

** MORE LATER ***

Any questions, comments, flames or information??  Any help welcome.  I'm
willing to share results of anything I learn from this, including choice of
electronics and sensors.

Ric Rainbolt
ricrain@xxx.net







>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Sun Jun 11 12:03:19 1995
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From: "Ucu M Subrata" <UCU@xxx.id>
To: diy_efi
Date:          Sun, 11 Jun 1995 18:55:35 +007
Subject:       Re: Custom EFI project
Priority: normal
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> To:             DIY_EFI@xxx.edu
> Date sent:      Sun, 11 Jun 95 01:23 CDT
> From:           ricrain@xxx.net (Ric Rainbolt)
> Subject:        Custom EFI project
> Send reply to:  diy_efi@xxx.edu

> 
> Saturn V? No, stage five.
> I will now to remove the stock igniton modules and connect them to a test
> harness which will be controlled by a PC.  I will step through all MAP and
> RPM values and record the OEM ignition advance map.  Then, I will program
> this in as my "base" map into my EFI and test my EFI using the same harness
> to verify the implementation.
> Now to install my ignition components on the engine and say "goodbye" to the
> distributors forever!
> 
> ** MORE LATER ***
> 
> Any questions, comments, flames or information??  Any help welcome.  I'm
> willing to share results of anything I learn from this, including choice of
> electronics and sensors.
> 
> Ric Rainbolt
> ricrain@xxx.net
> 
> 
Hi, nice to meet you..

I've been working on nearly the same project as you 
do.(Distibutorless Ignition with knock control and EFI (planned for 
CNG(Compressed Natural Gas)-Methane-Injected at approx 6 bar(Storage 
is 200 bar)

I use the following type of sensors:

Manifold Press(MAP) : MPX 5100 DP from Motorola (0-1500mBar)
TDC                 : UGN3140 Hall-Effect Sensor from...(I forgot)
Intake Air temp.    : LM335 Zener,precision voltage sensor (10mV/K) 
TPS                 : Ordinary Potentiometer (linear type)
Knock               : from BOSH/Audi (I forgot the type), also 
                        Accelerometer from "Metrix"(Both 
                        Piezoelectric)

(MAP,knock sensor are hard to find here, I have to order to USA :-(   

How about the sensors you are using?
 
By the way, are you considering to use Knock feed-back to obtain the 
optimum Spark Advance Map for your engine?

I did data acquisition (by PC) to obtain the optimum SA Map with the 
following procedure:

1. Record the knock frequency with accelerometer + data recorder and 
play- back to Spectrum Analyzer to obtain the specific frequency 
correlated to knock. (I had 9.2 Khz for the Ford Laser 10R engine 
measured)-it has a little shift in freq.as the temperatue change.

2. Build the signal conditioning electronic circuit to process the 
knock signal from accelerometer (amp,filter,peak detector)

3. Running the engine at various RPM and Load. At each pair of RPM 
and Load I use PC to set the Spark Advance, step by step to a more 
advance SA value, and when the knock is detected(by accelerometer and 
the circuit) the PC program stop 
advancing and record the SA advance before the knock occur as the 
optimal SA(the optimal SA is right before knock occur).

4. When the SA control running accelerometer+circ still used to detect
knock (which may occur because of various engine condition)
If knock occur, it retards the timing

I used coil pack from mitsubishi (consists of 2 coil, 1 coil for 2 
spark plug)

Ok,...I'll wait for your reply ...





 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Sun Jun 11 13:23:25 1995
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Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 07:41:44 ET
From: John T Stein <JSTEIN@xxx.com>
Subject: Re: Weather Pack Connectors
To: diy_efi
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> Does anybody know of a good source of GM Weather Pack Connectors? The local
> GM dealer has limited availibility and high pricing.
> 
> Thanks,
> Garry
> 
> 

I have seen SOME of the weather pack types sold in "peg-board" display 
packaging at my local car parts retailers.  They were marketed (repackaged??)
by one of the major automotive electrical parts retailers, Kem I believe.

If you need small quantities, this may be OK.

good luck,

John

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Sun Jun 11 21:21:48 1995
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Date: 11 Jun 95 17:18:11 EDT
From: Martin Evans <100341.377@xxx.com>
To: DIY EFI Mailing List <DIY_EFI>
Subject: Custom EFI Project
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Ric Rainbolt wrote:

>I will be using eight Bosch fuel injectors (19lb/hr @xxx.  Fuel >pressure
will be 3-6 bar, controlled by the EFI.

Do you know the flow rate at 3.6bar? do you anticipate requiring fuel in excess
of 19lb/hr?

My initial thoughts follow. Feel free to criticise as i'm learning too!

If you are trying to implement a crank and idle strategy for yor engine I think
it will be necessary to look at TPS (to start with a switch contact indicating
closed throttle will do), TDC and RPM. 

SYSV will have an impact but you will need to evaluate the change in your
specific injectors flow rate with varying voltage.

MAP should be used to compensate for atmospheric pressure before start
commences. If you don't anticipate operating at altitude it makes life easier to
forget it.

Engine coolant temperature should, I think be pulled forwards from stage 4 of
your implementation as the mixture requirements do vary wildly with temperature.
My own vehicle indicates a change from approximately 0.8:1 at -40 deg C to
16.8:1 at 104 deg C. At 0 deg C the ratio is approximately 9.2:1.

Initially ignoring the O2 sensor would make sense as it would not give a useful
output  until the sensor gets warm. Are you intending to close loop control with
a 3 way catalyst eventually?

Calculation time!

For basic fuelling lambda will need to be controlled around 1.0 which implies
14.7:1 air to fuel ratio. 
Assuming 100% volumetric efficiency:
Calculate for one cylinder
Each cylinder measures 0.375 litre
In one cycle it will consume 0.375 litre of air
One cycle is 2 engine revolutions
800 revolutions per minute is 400 cycles
400 cycles is 400 x 0.375 litre = 150 litres/minute
The density of air at 15 deg C is 1.225kg / m-3
1 m3 is 1000 litres therefore 150 litres is:
150 x 1.225/1000 = 0.18375 kg/minute
For 14.7:1 air to fuel ratio the injector would need to supply per hour:
0.18375kg x 60min/hr /14.7 = 0.75kg
The injectors flow 19lb/hr = 8.6kg/hr
0.75kg assuming linear flow/time characteristic is:
0.75/8.6kg is 8.7% on time

The injector on time will therefore need controlling to give:

at 0 deg C 14.7/9.2 x 8.7% = 14% on time
at 104 deg C 14.7/16.8 x 8.7% = 7.6% on time

Obviously we cannot expect 100% volumetric efficiency so mixtures will tend to
be slightly richer than predicted so shorter times would be required.

Martin Evans

100341.377@xxx.com



>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Mon Jun 12 19:16:40 1995
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From: ricrain@xxx.net (Ric Rainbolt)
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>Ric Rainbolt wrote:
>
>>I will be using eight Bosch fuel injectors (19lb/hr @xxx.  Fuel 
>>pressure will be 3-6 bar, controlled by the EFI.
>
> <BIG snip>
>
>Calculation time!
>
> <BIG snip>
>
>Obviously we cannot expect 100% volumetric efficiency so mixtures will tend to
>be slightly richer than predicted so shorter times would be required.

Your calculations are correct but you failed to consider one important
factor... at idle the throttle is closed and the motor is only pumping air
at about 25-30% efficiency (0.3 bar absolute MAP * 90% efficient motor =
27%).  However, it did prod me into remembering something important about my
fuel calculations and now I am planning on adding a second set of injectors
(also 19 lb/hr) to compensate for fuel flow under boost.  After all at 1 bar
of boost, the motor will be operating at nearly 180% pumping efficiency.  At
8500 RPM, there is no reasonable pressure the single set of injectors can be
run at to obtain correct mixture.

By the way, I am using 11.5:1 as maximum enrichment (at operating temp) and
of course 14.7:1 as stoch.  Any comments?

Ric Rainbolt
ricrain@xxx.net


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Mon Jun 12 20:00:04 1995
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Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:52:39 -700 (MDT)
From: Jim Conforti <jec@xxx.com>
Subject: Wide range EGO sensor/meter
To: DIY_EFI <DIY_EFI>
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Does anyone know the approx. cost of those Horiba (sp?) lambda meters that
use the UEGO type sensors ...

You know a REAL sensor, vs. a std. "stoich." sensor ...

I'm about to crack totally and BUY one, but was curious as to how much
poorer I'm going to be ..

Jim Conforti
<jec@xxx.com>



>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Mon Jun 12 20:18:04 1995
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From: king@xxx.COM (Robert King)
Message-Id: <9506122016.AA11247@xxx.com>
Subject: Re: Wide range EGO sensor/meter
To: diy_efi
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 15:16:42 -0500 (CDT)
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> 
> 
> Does anyone know the approx. cost of those Horiba (sp?) lambda meters that
> use the UEGO type sensors ...
> 
> You know a REAL sensor, vs. a std. "stoich." sensor ...
> 
> I'm about to crack totally and BUY one, but was curious as to how much
> poorer I'm going to be ..

   About 2 grand for the Horiba setup.  Mike Wesley of C&M Racing has a
product called "Lambda View" that does the same thing for $650.

-- Robert King

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Mon Jun 12 22:37:08 1995
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Date: 12 Jun 95 18:32:40 EDT
From: Martin Evans <100341.377@xxx.com>
To: DIY EFI Mailing List <DIY_EFI>
Subject: Custom EFI Project
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Ric Rainbolt wrote commenting on calculations by Martin Evans:

>>Your calculations are correct but you failed to consider one important
factor... at idle the throttle is closed and the motor is only pumping air
at about 25-30% efficiency (0.3 bar absolute MAP * 90% efficient motor =
27%).<< 

Big mistake by me, mentioned the MAP and then failed to take it into
account.....it was a diesel you were controlling wasn't it <g>.....no the
partial brain failure must have been from the excess of beer celebrating Alesi's
first GP win yesterday!

Just as a comparison my vehicle with a 1.6L turbo with dual fired injectors,
0.65 bar boost continuous and 0.9bar short duration overboost idling at 950rpm
uses injector pulse widths of 1.5 - 2 msec at idle. I haven't looked at their
flow rate but suspect they are considerably in excess of 10kg/hr. 

Are you sure your injectors correctly sized for your application as you now
mention another 8 injectors (or do you have shares in Bosch?)

What drivers are you using for your injectors?

Martin Evans


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Mon Jun 12 23:30:00 1995
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Subject: Re: Wide range EGO sensor/meter
To: diy_efi
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 16:22:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: poetma00 <poetma00@xxx.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9506121339.C34174-9100000@xxx.com> from "Jim Conforti" at Jun 12, 95 01:52:39 pm
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> Does anyone know the approx. cost of those Horiba (sp?) lambda meters that
> use the UEGO type sensors ...
> 
> You know a REAL sensor, vs. a std. "stoich." sensor ...
> 
> I'm about to crack totally and BUY one, but was curious as to how much
> poorer I'm going to be ..
Quite significant :-).  I was given a quote for Horiba meter for about
$2000 or more. 

I too was interested, but then .....


Markus Poetiray


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Mon Jun 12 23:43:19 1995
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From: ricrain@xxx.net (Ric Rainbolt)
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>
>Are you sure your injectors correctly sized for your application as you now
>mention another 8 injectors (or do you have shares in Bosch?)
>
>What drivers are you using for your injectors?
>

If I go with a 35 lb injector, the idle will suffer terribly.  19 lb is
perfect for this application with normal aspiration.  This is why I chose 19
to start with, but now I want to run 1 bar boost, and don't want to kill the
good idle characteristics.  No stock in Bosch, but I am able to get the
injectors for $25/ea, not too bad.

The injector drivers are (will be) Power MOSFETs, they don't even need heat
sinks, but I am putting one in!

Ric Rainbolt


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Tue Jun 13 00:08:21 1995
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From: "Andrew Dennison" <ADEN@xxx.au>
Organization:  Swinburne University
To: diy_efi
Date:          Tue, 13 Jun 1995 10:06:06 EST+10
Subject:       Re: Custom EFI project
Priority: normal
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> 
> Hi.  I've been lurking this group for about a month and now I have some
> questions.  I am building a custom EFI computer for a car of mine that
> currently has mechanical fuel injection and a simple electronic-advance
> system with distributors.

Check out the EFI332 project that some of us are working on. We are 
using the MC68332 with a timer system perfect for EFI and free 
software tools.  I maintain a Web page for the project:

http://www.cim.swin.edu.au/wwwhome/aden/efi332/efi332.html
or (slightly shorter and should work)
http://www.cim.swin.edu.au/~aden/efi332/efi332.html

I'll keep pushing the Web page until people complain :)

You can subscribe to EFI332 which in on the same Majordomo as DIYEFI. 

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Tue Jun 13 03:22:14 1995
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To: diy_efi
cc: jsg
Subject: Re: Wide range EGO sensor/meter 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jun 95 13:52:39."
             <Pine.3.05.9506121339.C34174-9100000@xxx.com> 
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 23:21:15 -0400
From: John S Gwynne <jsg>
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--------

   In message <Pine.3.05.9506121339.C34174-9100000@xxx.com> , you writ
e:
 
| 
| Does anyone know the approx. cost of those Horiba (sp?) lambda meters that
| use the UEGO type sensors ...

I called Horiba almost two years ago. The MEXA110 analyzer was
$8800. The most inexpensive item was $2500, but at the time that
was not a standard off the self item so I wasn't able to get any more
information. John De Armond  spoke once of a Motes unit (made in Australia
imported by JGM Automotive Tooling, 5692 Buckingham Drive, Huntington Beach
CA 92649, (714) 895 7001. This was much cheaper but I can't seem to
find the price... Also try Epcom Corp., PO Box 47032, Oak Park Michigan
48237, (313) 257 0627. A model 10630 air/fuel analyzer for about $1000.

Please post what pricing information you find...



                                       John S Gwynne
                                          Gwynne.1@xxx.edu
_______________________________________________________________________________
               T h e   O h i o - S t a t e   U n i v e r s i t y
    ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA
                Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7297
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Fri Jun 16 22:32:55 1995
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Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 17:13:52 -700 (MDT)
From: Jim Conforti <jec@xxx.com>
Subject: Wide Range EGO Sensors .. Part II
To: DIY_EFI <DIY_EFI>
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Does anyone have any info on the existing (available) wide range EGO
sensors to determine A/F ratio and/or modes for making a std. HEGO
sensor read a wider range of lambda values ..

Jim Conforti
<jec@xxx.com>

PS: Yes, I'm trying to design my own, since it's going to be interfacing to
    my laptop anyway ...




>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Fri Jun 16 22:46:33 1995
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To: diy_efi, n.mulvana@xxx.uk
Subject: Re: computer project 
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 12:18:54 -0400
From: "Roberto L. Landrau" <rll@xxx.org>
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I am very interested in doing something similar to the project
described by Nigel on his message of 23 May 1995 (a computerized MPG
meter).  I was contemplating the idea of adding a flow meter to the
fuel line, but that causes a problem: not all of the fuel that goes
through the fuel filter is injected; some of it goes back to the
tank.  I would need two very accurate fuel sensors and take the
difference between the two.  This doesn't seem to be very practical.

I have the same inputs that Nigel mentioned (pulse train
proportional to speed and injector signals) except I don't know if I
can use the inujector pulse width to determine fuel flow.  With
constant fuel pressure, I presume the flow rate is proportional to
the pulse width, offset by the injector "dead" or "turn-on" time. 
The fuel pressure in my car varies as a fuction of vacuum (or intake
air pressure) level.  Would I have to add a fuel pressure sensor in
order to compute fuel flow?

In case it matters, the engine is a Mitsubishi 2.0l DOHC turbo and
the application is the 1st generation Eclipse/Talon/Laser family.

--------
Roberto L. Landrau	landrau@xxx.org

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Fri Jun 16 22:57:03 1995
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Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 06:56:10 -0100
To: DIY_EFI
From: jsturs@xxx.nl (Jim Sturcbecher)
Subject: GM 1227730 ECM needed
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Does anyone out there have a GM 1227730 ECM they would part with. It does
not need to be working or have the calpack as long as all the electronics
are there. Am willing to pay for a clean example.

Contact me direct on  jsturs@xxx.nl

Later,
Jim Sturcbecher
jsturs@xxx.nl


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Fri Jun 16 23:32:52 1995
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From: lusky@xxx. Lusky)
Subject: Re: Wide range EGO sensor/meter
To: diy_efi
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 14:25:40 -0500 (CDT)
In-Reply-To: <199506122328.TAA23212@xxx.edu> from "poetma00" at Jun 12, 95 04:22:29 pm
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poetma00 writes:
> 
> > Does anyone know the approx. cost of those Horiba (sp?) lambda meters that
> > use the UEGO type sensors ...
> > 
> > You know a REAL sensor, vs. a std. "stoich." sensor ...
> > 
> > I'm about to crack totally and BUY one, but was curious as to how much
> > poorer I'm going to be ..
> Quite significant :-).  I was given a quote for Horiba meter for about
> $2000 or more. 
> I too was interested, but then .....

Wow, the price has really come down on those...  I think they were
around $10k back in 92 when got one at UTexas.  Worth every penny, tho.

-- 
Jonathan R. Lusky                        lusky@xxx.edu
http://www.edge.net/~lusky/                 (615) 726-8700
-------------------------------------   ------------------------------
68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350  \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Sat Jun 17 00:57:28 1995
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Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 15:11:26 -0400
To: diy_efi
From: pjwales@xxx.net (Peter Wales)
Subject: Re: Custom EFI project
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I gave up trying to follow all of the maths involved in the injector sizing,
but, when tuning the 4 Cylinder Cosworth motors in England, we got 350 HP
from 350cc/min injectors which I beleive are 35 Lb/Hr. There are only 4 of
them.  If you use 16 off 19 lb / hour injectors you are going to have a lot
of fuel flowing into the engine. Are you sure you need them?

The other thing was you said the fuel pressure would be controlled
electronically by the EFI unit to change from 3 to 6 bar. Why? and How?
Peter Wales
Superchips Inc                          "Timing is everything"


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Sat Jun 17 02:19:21 1995
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From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" <BZUBLIN@xxx.com>
Subject: Re: computer project
To: "diy_efi (postings)" <DIY_EFI>
Cc: "n.mulvana" <n.mulvana@xxx.uk>
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Roberto L. Landrau      landrau@xxx.org writes:

> With
> constant fuel pressure, I presume the flow rate is proportional to
> the pulse width, offset by the injector "dead" or "turn-on" time.
> The fuel pressure in my car varies as a function of vacuum (or intake
> air pressure) level.  Would I have to add a fuel pressure sensor in
>order to compute fuel flow?

You need to determine the "duty cycle" of the injectors to calculate the 
flow rate.  For example, if an injector is firing every 10 mS, and the ON 
pulse width is 1 mS, the duty cycle is 10%.  Therefore, it is flowing 10% of 
its maximum flow rate (this ignores the dead time).  Of course, you need to 
know what the maximum flow rate of the injectors is in order to complete the 
calculation.  This can be measured if you have an injector, fuel pump, and 
pressure regulator.

I think that you can assume that the pressure is relatively constant, 
because most EFI systems have a fuel pressure regulator that is referenced 
to the intake manifold (I think this is what you were referring to).  This 
maintains the same pressure across the injector.

Bryan Zublin
bzublin@xxx.com

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Sat Jun 17 22:47:03 1995
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Date: Sat, 17 Jun 95 14:36:30 PDT
From: pbjorn@xxx.CA (Paul  Bjorn)
Message-Id: <9506172136.AA01744@xxx.CA>
To: diy_efi
Subject: GM prom code
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Can anyone tell me how to work with the hex code that is in a stock GM PROM,    such as the one used in a 1991 Firebird, ECU part no 1227730 ?. I have a Prom   reader, and have downloaded the data. I need to find out what locations in the  Prom control what, with intention of modifying fuel and spark parameters to     accomodate modifications.
Also, when viewing a stock GM calpak, there are 3 chips mounted on a plastic    carrier, I know the 28 pin unit is the Prom, but the 14 and 16 pin units remain unidentified. RAM maybe ? 
any help is greatly appreciated

Thanks
Paul Bjorn


>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Sun Jun 18 08:10:14 1995
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From: inforail.MV.COM!mvarc!an!adh
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Apparently-From: inforail!mvarc!an!adh
To: diy_efi
Subject: Re: Custom EFI project
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	From: "Ucu M Subrata" <UCU@xxx.id>
	
	
	I did data acquisition (by PC) to obtain the optimum SA Map with the 
	following procedure:
	
	
	3. Running the engine at various RPM and Load. At each pair of
	RPM and Load I use PC to set the Spark Advance, step by step to
	a more advance SA value, and when the knock is detected(by
	accelerometer and the circuit) the PC program stop advancing and
	record the SA advance before the knock occur as the optimal
	SA(the optimal SA is right before knock occur).

i've heard that optimum SA is actually a few degrees short of knock.
is this true or false?

if you have cruise control, could you use a straight and level [or
constant grade] road as a 'rolling dyno'?  hold a constant speed and
watch the injector-pulse/throttle-pos as you walk the spark timing
back and forth.

---

is anyone working on lpg injection?  just curious...
_______________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay
	    LIFE, n: A phenomenon that resists the second law of thermodynamics
adh@xxx.us						---Schroedinger

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Mon Jun 19 00:38:19 1995
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Date: 18 Jun 95 20:31:18 EDT
From: Alexander.M.Lichstein@xxx. Lichstein)
Subject: Re: computer project 
To: diy_efi
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I am planning an i8052/SSI 67F687 based EFI with ignition as well for an
Engineering project.  Any good recources (books, papers) to get me up to speed? 
Where should I get sensors/actuators from etc.  It is a 600cc engine with a
max. 20mm venturi at the throttle body.  Any special ideas to deal with this
restrictor?  Sorry to be so general, but I need some help to steepen my
learning curve.

												
- Z

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Mon Jun 19 03:03:25 1995
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To: diy_efi
Date:          Mon, 19 Jun 1995 09:49:19 +007
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 * This message contains the file 'EFI.HTM', which has been
 * uuencoded. If you are using Pegasus Mail, then you can use
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M=7-T('=H:6-H(&ES(&-U<G)E;G1L>2!P87-S:6YG#0IT:&4@14=/('-E;G-O
M<BX@(%1H92!I;FIE8W1O<G,@8V%N('1H96X@8F4@=')I;6UE9"!I;F1I=FED
M=6%L;'DN#0I2968@(DEN9&EV:61U86P@0WEL:6YD97(@0492($-O;G1R;VP@
M=VET:"!A(%-I;F=L92!%1T\@4V5N<V]R(BP@1W)I>GIL92!*+`T*0V]O:R!*
M(&%N9"!$;V)B:6YS($LL($%M97)I8V%N($-O;G1R;VP@0V]N9F5R96YC92`Q
M.3DP('!P(#(X.#$M,C@X-BX-"@T*+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM
M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM
2+2TM+2TM+2T-"CPO<')E/@T*
 
end

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<title>EFI books and publications</title>
<h1>EFI books and publications</h1>

This is a list of books and articles gathered from the <i>diy_efi</i>
list.  If you have any other titles, please let me know.
<p>
<img src="/symbols/Warning.gif"> Very much under construction.  Please
be patient while I sort through all this;)
<p>
Comments/additions welcome.
<pre>
<hr>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Books
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Adler et al, "Automotive Electric/Electronic Systems", Robert
Bosch GmbH, Stuttgart, Germany, ISBN 0-89883-509-7, 1988.
  This is the "red" handbook.
  Covers all forms of automotive systems.  Good general reading with
  excellent coverage of basic functions like starters, alternators,
  ignition, sparkplugs.  Covers some detail of Bosch's fuel injection
  systems.  Available   from the SAE on sale for $19 (order B-528).

Adler et al, "Automotive Handbook, 3rd Edition", Robert Bentley,
Cambridge, MA, ISBN 0-8376-0330-7, 1993.
  This is the "blue" handbook which used to be pocket size.
  Covers all forms of automotive design and systems.  Good reference
  source, but expressed in metric.  Has conversion tables.  Covers 
  materials well.  Some data on emissions (478-489) similar to 2nd 
  Edition.  Also has data on some of the representative automobiles from
  various world companies in back section.   Available from the SAE for 
  $29 (order BOSCH3). Price for SAE members is $23.

Adler	"Emission Control for Spark-Ignition Engines", "Bosch Technical
 Instruction", Robert Bosch, Stuttgart, Germany, 1985.
 Covers basics of emissions, EGR, and catalytic converters.  Also
 briefly covers K-Jetronic, KE-Jetronic, L-Jetronic, LH-Jetronic,
 Mono-Jetronic, and Motronic systems.  Sections on other measures, testing
 and regulations.

Adler, U., "Battery Ignition Systems", "Bosch Technical Instruction",
 Robert Bosch, Stuttgart, Germany, 1971.
 Covers the basics of ignition systems in basic breaker systems and
 simple electronic versions.  Good general data on spark requirements.

Adler, U., "Electronic Battery-Ignition Systems", "Bosch Technical
 Instruction", Robert Bosch, Stuttgart, Germany, 1976.
 Covers more advanced electronic ignition systems.  Good general data
 on spark requirements.

DaRosa -- Fundamentals of Energy Processes
  Very general, with an excellent chapter or two on combustion, and
  lots of other source of energy discussion.   $60

Heywood, J.B., "Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals", McGraw-Hill,
USA, ISBN 0-07-028637-x, 1988.
  College text on IC engine design and theory.  General reference on
  engine topics.  Also contains many references to other works.  Available
  from the SAE for $69 (order B-526).

Lenz, D.H.P., "Mixture Formation in Spark-Ignition Engines", SAE,
Warrendale, PA, ISBN 1-56091-188-3, 1992.
  Excellent text on carbureation, combustion and fuel infection concepts.
  Some important data on emissions (70-74, 249-251) with description of
  trends over years.  This book also published by  Springer-Verlag/Wien,
  NY, who translated it from German (Lenz, Gemischbildung bei Ottomotoren)
  in 1990.  Available from SAE on sale for $55 (order R-113).  Price for
  SAE members is $45.  I actually bought a copy for $39 at the SAE Congress
  last month.

Probst, C.O., "Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management", Robert
Bentley, Cambridge, MA, ISBN 0-8376-0300-5, 1989.
  Covers most of the Bosch systems from D-Jetronic through Motronic. 
  Covers variety of vehicles.  Has good section in begining on combustion
  and emissions information, but a better description is in other BOSCH
  texts and sources.  Available from the SAE on sale for $19 (order B-557).

Jeff Hartman,"Fuel injection - Installation, Performance tuning,
Modifications"    ISBN 0-87938-743-2
Publisher Motorbooks international, PO Box 1, Osceola, WI 54020
1-800-826-6600 (in the US), Reccomended Price $19.95 US.
  Probably the best value for money book on EFI. The book has snippets
  of everything - If it had detail on all the subjects it mentioned
  it would be the definitive reference. The Audience is intended as
  street rodders mainly, but there are good bits and peices for the 
  DIY_EFI'er - Reccomended reading.


Probst, C.O., "How to Understand, Service and Modify Ford Fuel
Injection and Electronic Engine Control", Robert Bentley, Cambridge, MA,
ISBN 0-8376-0301-3, 1993.
  Covers basic engine control theory and Ford systems to 1988.
  Excellent book on topic.  Similar to author's other work on Bosch
  systems.  Available from SAE for $30 (order B-584).

Watson, B., "How to Tune and Modify Bosch Fuel Injection", Motorbooks
International, Osceola, WI, ISBN 0-87938-570-7, 1992.
  Covers most of the Bosch systems from D-Jetronic through LH-Jetronic. 
  Mainly aimed at VW.  Has good section in begining on testing electronic
  components.  Minimal amount of emissions information  - better description
  is in other BOSCH texts and sources.  Cost $19.95 in 1994.

Electronic controls and sensors: proceedings of the SAE International
Congress and Exposition (1992:  Detroit, MI).  ISBN 1-56091-215-4.  
  This book is 120 pages long.  Unfortunately, I do not have it (yet) as 
  it is in an ATT library in NJ whereas I'm in IL!  If you choose to purchase
  it, the ISBN and title should be sufficient for a bookstore to track it
  down.  I recall this book has some articles on nifty research done in
  universities in Europe on adaptive controls and some stuff on a truly
  exotic oxygen sensor which allows more than bang-bang control of the
  a/f mixture.

Laser/Talon Tech Info Manual
  Call 1-800-626-1523 and ask for the 1990 Laser/Talon Tech Info Manual
  part number 81-699-9039.  Shipping will probably be more than the
  cost of this ~200 page book.  They take plastic.

Adler, Ulrich, _Electronic Gasoline Fuel-Injection System with Lambda
 Closed-Loop Control, L-Jetronic:  Technical Instruction_, Robert Bosch GmbH,
 copyright 1985, ISBN 1-85-226008-4.  (yellow book, 20 numbered pages; this
 is written on the back cover:  "English translation of the German edition
 dated:  September 1985.")


Adler, Ulrich, _Mechanical Gasoline Fuel-Injection System with Lambda
 Closed-Loop Control, K-Jetronic:  Technical Instruction_, Robert Bosch GmbH,
 copyright 1981, ISBN 1-85-226030-0.  (yellow book, 24 numbered pages; this
 is written on the back cover:  "English translation of the 2nd German
 edition dated:  September 1985.")


Adler, Ulrich, _Combined Ignition and Fuel-Injection System with Lambda
 Closed-Loop Control, Motronic:  Technical Instruction_, Robert Bosch GmbH,
 copyright 1985, ISBN 1-85-226009-2.  (yellow book, 44 numbered pages; this
 is written on the back cover:  "English translation of the 2nd German 
 edition from September 1985.")


_Bosch Electronic Fuel Injection Systems, Shop Manual_, , Motorbooks
 International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1986, ISBN 0-87938-237-6.
 (maintenance manual for Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Datsun, Mercedes, Opel,
 Porsche, Renault, Saab, Volkswagen, and Volvo, model years 1970 - 1979).


Mitchell International, Inc., _Mitchell's Electronic Fuel Injection
 Troubleshooting Guide: Import Vehicles_, Fisher Books, Tucson, Arizona,
 1989, ISBN 1-55561-031-5.  (chapter contents include Bosch D, K, KE, L,
 LH, and Digifant (Japanese and European); Daihatsu; Honda PGM-FI;
 Isuzu I-TEC; Lucas-Bosch; Mazda RE-EGI; Mitsubishi ECI and MPFI; Nissan
 TBI; Subaru SPFI;  this book has the EFI system wiring diagrams of many
 import cars.)


Mitchell International, Inc., _Mitchell's Electronic Fuel Injection
 Troubleshooting Guide: Domestic Vehicles, Fisher Books, Tucson, Arizona,
 1991, ISBN 1-55561-032-3.  (chapter contents include AMC/Jeep; AMC;
 AMC/RENIX; AMC/RENIX II; Bosch; Chrysler; Eagle; Ford; GM; this book has
 the EFI system wiring diagrams of many domestic cars.)


Norbye, Jan P., _Automotive Fuel Injection Systems, A Technical Guide_,
 Motorbooks International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1981, ISBN 0-87938-139-6.
 (primarily a history and description of fuel injection systems, includes
 chapters on Bosch Mechanical Systems for Mercedes-Benz Cars, Kugelfischer
 Fuel Injection, Rochester Fuel Injection, The Bendix Electrojector, Cadillac
 and the Bendix Analog and Digital Fuel-Injection Systems, Bosch L- and K-
 Jetronic, Motronic, Mono-Jetronic, Lucas Digital Fuel Injection, Chrysler's
 Single-Point Injection; Ford's Electronic Engine Control System, Zenith
 Fuel-Management Systems, Fiat/Marelli Experimental System, Bosch / Pierburg
 Electronic Carburetor, Aftermarket Fuel Injection)


Ribbens, William B., Mansour, Norman P., et al, _Understanding Automotive
Electronics_, third edition, Howard W. Sams & Company, Indianapolis, 
 Indiana,
 1988, ISBN 0-672-27064-6.  (Contents includes Automotive Fundamentals, The
 Systems Approach to Control and Instrumentation, Electronics Fundamentals,
 Microcomputer Instrumentation and Control, Sensors and Actuators, The Basics
 of Electronic Engine Control, Digital Engine Control System, Vehicle Motion
 Control, Automotive Instrumentation, Diagnostics, Future Automotive
 Electronics Systems)


Watson, Ben, _How to Tune and Modify Ford Fuel Injection_, Motorbooks
International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1992, ISBN 0-87938-621-5.  ("For
Fuel-Injected Ford Cars and Trucks with EEC III and EEC IV Engine 
Maintenance
Systems,"  chapters include History of Fuel Injection, Brief Overview of
Electronics, Tools, Tuning the Fuel-injected Engine, Automotive Emissions,
EEC III, EEC IV Components and Operation, EEC IV Onboard Diagnostics,
Troubleshooting by Symptom, Performance Modifications, Legalities of Engine
Modification;  the performance chapter is weak, only 10 pages).


Watson, Ben, _How to Repair and Modify Chevrolet Fuel Injection, Motorbooks
International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1991, ISBN 0-87938-502-2.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Papers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Talk to SAE and get their most recent flier.  
        
  1-800-TEAM-SAE
  (412)776-4970
  (412)776-0790 FAX


750346 -- HEI-A New Ignition System Through New Technology
It covers the charge time question as well at their solution.  If you've not 
yet read the paper, it describes some really clever innovations: 
adjustable dwell depending on how near saturation, a 5.5 amp limit in 
the driver so you could have a low resistance for fast saturation times at 
high speeds, but that wouldn't fry at low speeds.

790742 -- 
Readable paper on the Ford CFI 5.0L 1980 cars. It covers most of
the 'twiddle factors' required to get the vehicle running properly.

800164 -- 
Covers GM TBI system.  Easy reading.

810449 -- Mathematical Model of a Throttle Body Fuel Injection System
Discusses effect of battery voltage on injectors and fuel pump pressure

810494 -- 

810495 -- 

880561 -- Frequency Domain Characterization of Mass Flow Sensors, 
             by W. C. Follmer, 1988.

900616 -- Mean Value Modelling of Spark Ignition Engines, by Hendricks
             and Sorenson, 1990.

910258 -- 
Discusses modeling intake manifold and fuel film dynamics.

920289
Modeling, filtering, and closed loop control?

930856 --
Operating characteristics of Zirconia sensors.

940373 "Adaptive Air-Fuel Ratio Control of a Spark-Ignition Engine"

940379 --
Describes a new pressure sensor that they use for misfire detection,
knock control, ignition control, etc. I have a feeling that you may
be seeing these in pass. cars in the not too distant future. Still
some signal processing circuitry required but the price has to be
better than a PCB or Kistler unit. 

FISITA -- Adaptive Transient Air-Fuel Ratio Control to Minimize Gasoline
             Engine Emissions, by Beaumont, Noble, and Scarisbrick, 1992.

       --
Describes an experiment performed by the EPA wherein they discover that
O2 sensors in fact do not sense O2 until they reach 800 degrees C.
Until that point they measure H and CO.



910258, 930856, and  920289 are also good. The first two are
by Elbert Hendricks and others, which are what I call essential reading.
The third paper covers operating characteristics of Zirconia sensors.

SAE 880561 - Frequency Domain Characterization of Mass Flow Sensors, 
             by W. C. Follmer, 1988.

FISITA -     Adaptive Transient Air-Fuel Ratio Control to Minimize Gasoline
             Engine Emissions, by Beaumont, Noble, and Scarisbrick, 1992.

SAE 900616 - Mean Value Modelling of Spark Ignition Engines, by Hendricks
             and Sorenson, 1990.

 
SAE 900616 - Mean Value Modelling of Spark Ignition Engines, by Hendricks
             and Sorenson, 1990.

SAE 930856? describes a method for keeping statistics on the
difference between measured and modelled output values and using these
statistics to modify Q(k).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Parts
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
HIP9010 Harris Semiconductor
An integrated knock sensor signal processor. This thing (HIP9010) is
controlled by a microprocessor bus port, and does programmable gain,
filtering, windowing and integration.  It produces an analog output
voltage for knock amplitude. 

MC3484-S4
Fuel injector driver.  They cost about $4.50 each from Hamilton-Avnet,
but you have to buy at least 40 or 50 at a time.

LM1964 
An amplifier designed especially for amplifying O2 sensor signals. 
It's in National's special purpose devices book (Linear 3).

LM1949 Injector Drive Controller
	
SAMTEC makes QFP to PGC Adapter boards for a variety of QFP Packages.
Chip Specific Adapters "SPEC" for a variety of Motorola and Intel Chips,
SAMTEC phn 800 726-8329.

CSP3000 -- Signal processor for automotive applications
The Car Signal Processor (CSP3000) is a signal processor designed for use
in automotive applications. 24 analog inputs and 8 PWM outputs represent
the interfaces with the analog world. The digital, 12 bits wide I/O port
and two serial bus interfaces permit the exchange of digital data within
the application or between processors.
FEATURES OF THE CSP:
- 12 Bit RISC processor (FP)
- 256 words of internal RAM (12 bit)
- 2048 works of internal ROM (20 bit)
- internal clock generator
- 12 Bidirectional IO lines
- 2 serial ports
- up to 24 analog inputs
- 8 PWM outputs
- up to 24 digital inputs
- all digital inputs with hysteresis
- 2 independant RESET pins for FP and PWM system
- PLCC 68 package
- EMU version available in 132 pin LLCC package

MC68332 -- CPU32 modular controller
The MC68332 is one of a Motrola's family of modular architecture
controller chips. The '332 contains the following modules:
  * CPU32, a 32bit M68000 style processor with all 68020 functionality
    except the bitfield operations.
  * TPU, a 16 bit RISC time processing unit that has 16 I/O pins
    and can independently perform all sorts of time functions such as
    PWM, period measurement, position synchronized pulse generation, 
    missing pulse detection, etc (great for engine management).
  * QSM, a serial module that contains one standard asynchronous serial 
    port and one synchronous port.  
  * SIM, a system integration module that does chip selects, etc.
  * 2K of onboard static ram. 


67F687
     The 67F687 is a high performance MSICs ( Mixed Signal Integrated Circuit )
designed to work with a microprocessor in an engine management system. Using two
sensor inputs (crank and cam), the 67F687 tracks engine position through one or 
two complete revolutions with a resolution of 0.25 degrees. Designed to be
flexible, the 67F687 will accept a variety of sensor types and pulse patterns.
It generates ignition and injection output pulses based on position and time
parameters supplied by the host microprocessor, relieving it of many of the real
time interrupt routines associated with these tasks. These outputs can directly
drive power devices to actuate automotive ignition coils and fuel injectors. A
sense input from each device allows individual diagnostics, short circuit
protection and ignition coil current limiting. A timer, which measures coil 
charge time at the ignition sense inputs, enhances closed loop dwell control.
Communication with a host microprocessor is through a parallel data and address
bus. A general purpose parallel I/O port offers level sensitive input and output
capability, in addition to edge detect inputs and PWM outputs.
Silicon Systems
Automotive Products
14351 Myford Road
Tustin, CA 92680  USA
Attn: Tony Anderson


Electro Corp.
1845 - 57th Street
Sarasota, FL
34243
voice: 813-355-8411
fax:   813-355-3120
A complete line of sensors.

MC3334 Ignition controller chip.
It's an 8-pin DIP that uses a sensing capacitor to determine if the
coil was completely charged for the last spark.  It adjusts the dwell
for the next spark accordingly.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Software
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
PADS -- Circuit layout software.
Has all the symbols, 68000, 8031, 80x86, TTL, CMOS, etc. It seems easy
to add to this as well. Outputs Gerber, Postscript, etc.  Got the copy
I have off a CDROM. Walnut Creek Simtel 10/93 collection.  Anyway, try
ftp.uu.net, wuarchive.wustl.edu, ftp.funet.fi etc. The directory at
ftp.uu.net should be /system/msdos/simtel/cad. The files are padslib.zip,
padslog.zip, padspcb.zip. Dunno what the versions are.

RTEMS -- Real time OS
You can ftp it from lancelot.gcs.redstone.army.mil in /pub/rtems. Look
for version 3.1.03.

GCC -- DOS hosted cross compiler for 68000 series CPUs
There are now binaries (and the changed source files for anyone interested)
available via anon. ftp. The binaries are gcc 2.6.0 for djgpp (msdos) host
and 68000 family embedded target. The ftp address is:
ftp.lysator.liu.se in directory /pub/msdos/gnu/gcc-dos-m68k
<hr>


RECENT REFERENCES:
US Patent 5168853
SAE 940546, 940547
ASME ICE-Vol. 22, p73-83, October 1994


Other work into self tuning optimization and general automotive
adaptive control systems includes research at

UMIST (assoc with Lucas) (P Wellstead, P Scotson, etc)
Ohio State University (G Rizzoni, W Ribbens, F Connolly, etc)
Ford / Ricardo (A Beaumont, A Noble, A Scarisbrick)
UC Berkeley, MIT, Princeton  (J K Hedrick, D Cho, J Moskwa, C Nesbit, etc)

Now that you mention it I remember reading one of your papers (SAE 892142).
The system is a basic hill climbing technique that is unfortunately very
susceptible to noise and multiple extrema.  The work I'm implementing is
different in that it forms a 2 or 3 dimensional quadratic model and 
statistically fits available data to estimate the position of the peak.
The system can then 'jump' straight to the estimated optimum and re-tune 
from there.  The system is very immune to noise and tunes in within about 3
or 4 iterations.  New data is incorporated recursively and is inherently 
filtered in the algorithm.  
Dr. Gordon Blairs book "Two Stroke Engine Design" goes into this in 
great detail. He even supplies some programs written in Basic to 
calculate lengths. Its published by SAE & in the publications catalog.

An OEM solution is to model the delays in the engine dynamics to determine
which cylinder is producing the puff of exhaust which is currently passing
the EGO sensor.  The injectors can then be trimmed individually.
Ref "Individual Cylinder AFR Control with a Single EGO Sensor", Grizzle J,
Cook J and Dobbins K, American Control Conference 1990 pp 2881-2886.

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</pre>

>From owner-diy_efi-archive  Fri Jun 23 22:42:50 1995
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From: Dale Ulan <ulan@xxx.ca>
Subject: Possible *JOB* for someone out there
To: DIY_EFI
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 16:38:06 MDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
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Reply-To: diy_efi@xxx.edu

A company in Calgary is looking for someone to do software
development for natural gas engine controllers. If anyone
out there is interested, they'd probably be reading this
newsgroup... so I figured I'd post this here.
Oh yea, location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
If you are interested, E-mail me and I'll send you a contact
name and how to get ahold of him.

I've been a bit busy trying to graduate (yes, I did pass all
of my courses), so I'm a bit behind on what's going on in
this group...

-Dale