DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 3 January 1996 Volume 00 : Number 022 In this issue: More EFI vendor info RE: Seeking opinions on an idea... SPICA Convert? RE: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 OBDII Scan tool Re: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 RE: OBDII Scan tool Re: DIY_EFI Vendor List See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Date: Tue, 02 Jan 1996 09:10:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: More EFI vendor info I saw this blurb in the July 1995 issue of European Car (page 34): Simple Digital Systems is now offering its new, low-cost EM-1D and E management systems for use on 4, 6, and 8 cylinder engines. The EM-1D systems offer precise control of port style injectors and ignition timing with its crank triggered unit. It can be used on engines not originally injected or to replace the OEM ECU on modified EFI engines. The integral LCD programmer eliminates the need for an expensive laptop and software like most other units require. Programmable parameters include: RPM, manifold pressure, water and air temperature, startup, acceleration, ignition timing, boost and rev limiting and closed loop. Knock control is optional. Standard systems include wiring harness, TPS and temperature sensors. Contact: Racetech Engineering, Bay G, 1007 55th Ave. N.E., Dept. EC, Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T2E 6W1. (403) 274-0154. Bryan Zublin bzublin@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Brad_Miller@xxx.com (Miller,Brad) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 16:02:32 -0500 Subject: RE: Seeking opinions on an idea... SPICA Convert? EEECK!!! From my Weber Carb book - that setup is really expensive (Spica) and worth a lot of money in unmolested form. I'd go get a Weber conversion kit (for now) to run the car, that'll give you the manifolds and other necessary components. Then I'd go get a fuel injection setup based upon the Weber's. I think there are numerous systems which use the same style throttle bodies and just add the injectors. I don't have my handy book here to remember which companies have the stuff you need. All in all, I'd go the simple (albeit bruteforce) method. From what the Weber book says, those systems were great when they were in top shape, but as they deteriorated performance suffered. The Webers would at least give you back performance and a high degree of tuning. I'm just now cutting my teeth on them and I love 'em. (Webers). I find it hard to work on FI setups without knowing all the basics, and the Webers give me all the nitty gritty basics. <*>Thus, my idea. I'd use the Spica manifold, replace the mechanical injectors <*>with EFI injectors, tack on a throttle position sensor, a temperature sensor, <*>and a lead off the tach into some kind of simple box running in open loop <*>mode. In your opinions, is this feasable. If so, any ideas as to <*>difficulty? Any suggestions for improvements? <*> <*> - Paul Witek <*> ------------------------------ From: Brad_Miller@xxx.com (Miller,Brad) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 17:18:02 -0500 Subject: RE: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 <<<<< REPOST OF PREVIOUS EMAIL ON SDS >>>> Hello - I was noticing the discussion on suppliers, and wanted to know if anyone had heard of this company: Racetech Engineering Bay G 1007 55th Ave. N.E. Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2E6W1 Phone: (403) 274-0154 Here's some info from their flyer/ads: Simple Digital Systems EM-1 If You have ever cursed and struggled with one of those PC programmable engine management systems and thought there must be a better way, well now there it. It?s called SDS EM-1. - - SDS is the easiest digital management system to install and program on the market today - period - - No high priced software to purchase of licensing agreements to sign - - Full sensor diagnostics available in real time - - Crank triggered, fully programmable ignition with optional knock control - - SDS needs no laptop or PC for programming It sounds pretty good - and if everything goes ok with sponsors/feasibility study, I might use this in the Car & Driver One Lap of America race next year. Right now I've gotta come up with enough sponsors for costs - - but the system sounds great and is priced REALLY good . . . . If anyone wants anymore info, or has any info to share with me, please email me direct. Thanks! Bradley Miller Xerox Business Services, Kansas City Midwest Shelby Dodge Inc. Email: Brad_Miller@xxx.com Alternate: Brad2dbone@xxx.com I have flyers and can get your more info. Thanks for the bandwidth! ------------------------------ From: Markus Strobl Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 16:49:56 -0600 Subject: OBDII Scan tool With the new OBDII standard, automakers have to conform to a standard interface, as well as release information about their system so that third party companies can build scan tools and diagnostic systems. Atleast that my understanding after reading the EPA home page and my service manual ('96 Camaro Z28). Has anyone heard of a scan tool for OBDII cars? Who makes it? Price? I'm dying to get into my PCM... There's no field service mode anymore like to older GM cars, so a scan tool is imperative. Also, I remember some discussion about hooking up a PC to the DLC (new name for the aldl, dlc= data link connector). Something about non-standard baudrate?? But someone succeded, I think. Can anyone refresh my memory? I know this isn't diy efi in the strictest sence, but learning about the new factory system can only improve our own efis, right? Thanks for any h elp. BTW, if anyone is interested I dug up some info on the OBDII misfire detection and how it's tied into the ABS system and why some 96 jap cars only come with automatic transmissions because of it. If there's interest I'll post. Markus Strobl 96 Z28 6M. Borla, !CAGS, PEG2, QLC, CD 1LE driveshaft, K&N, T, leather, Black Dallas, Texas 14.09 @xxx.5mpg @85mph ------------------------------ From: Craig Pugsley Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:09:18 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 > Here's some info from their flyer/ads: > > Simple Digital Systems EM-1 By the description of the features it sounds a lot like a re-badged Injec EM1 (with a 4 line LCD, two sets of up/down arrow keys, a MNU and a ENT button). they have an, err.., unusual way of doing the main fuel map. it had 2 load settings x20 RPM. I sure hope they interpolate. IMO, a front LCD panel is useful, especially if you haven't got a laptop, however there is no way it can be as easy as a good GUI interface. A few suggestions for the 332/general DIY_EFI user interface: 1/ The 'Haltech method' is very logical (even to some mechanics I know) 2/ A 3D map display would be usefull, but only to display the overall picture of the map-NOT to set it. 3/ I'd very much like to see the control commands going to/from the EFI box be in human readable form. eg to set the time at the 5 inch vac, 1000 RPM point to 7.5ms it could be SETFUELMAP 5.0,1000,7.5 alternatively, if it is in hex form the ECU could more easily digest the info (eg SETFUELMAP 4A,05,1A - obviously depends on the system) Having this would make scan tools un-nessecary or obsolete. 4/ As in 3/, if the data coming back is human readable you could virtually diagnose problems just by reading the data stream with a terminal emulator. 5/ Did anyone come up with the 'EFI bus' discussed when DIY_EFI started? Or has this been swallowed up by the overall 332 system? I was thinking for the system I'm hacking with to have the processor board connected to the peripheral board by a 40 way header (or similar). This way any updates to either board wouldn't make the entire system obsolete. 6/ as in 5/, I'd like to see a standardised 'DIY_EFI' ECU <--> real world connector, such as one of the high density round 'military' connectors or preferably a flat wide connector like OEMS (maybe even use GM weatherpak type connectors). Whatever it is it should have easy world wide availability and be reasonable in price. (DB25 ?? ;-) This way any box made by a DIY_EFI person should be plug compatible. the connector should have provision for _reasonable_ features (eg 12 injector drives and 6 coils and 4 oxygen etc etc would be overkill.. perhaps even have 2 connectors-a'basic' with maybe 8-10 wires for a simple configuration and an 'extended' with the other 50 pins If this stuff is standardised here, maybe other manufacturers will make their stuff to the same standard (hey.. is that a pig flying :-D I presume the SAE don't have any standards on this?? Cheers, Craig. ------------------------------ From: Jim Pearl Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 19:59:39 -0600 Subject: RE: OBDII Scan tool - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAD94C.DA1597A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable YES by all means tell me as much as you can bout the OBDII! There's been = an argument in the FORDNATICS about OBDII - some fool said it would = "pose no problem" and had no limp home mode (bull). From what I've read = SEMA lost their court battle with the companies to force them to release = data on the systems. I want to learn as much about it as I can before I = end up with on e in the future..! - ---------- >From: Markus Strobl[SMTP:eusmsrt@xxx.se] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 1996 4:49 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: OBDII Scan tool With the new OBDII standard, automakers have to conform to a standard interface, as well as release information about their system so that third party companies can build scan tools and diagnostic systems. Atleast that my understanding after reading the EPA home page and my service manual ('96 Camaro Z28). Has anyone heard of a scan tool for OBDII cars? Who makes it? Price?=20 I'm dying to get into my PCM... There's no field service mode=20 anymore like to older GM cars, so a scan tool is imperative. Also, I remember some discussion about hooking up a PC to the DLC (new name for the aldl, dlc=3D data link connector). Something about non-standard baudrate?? But someone succeded, I think. Can anyone refresh my memory? I know this isn't diy efi in the strictest sence, but learning=20 about the new factory system can only improve our own efis, right? Thanks for any h elp. BTW, if anyone is interested I dug up some info on the OBDII misfire detection and how it's tied into the ABS system and why some 96 jap cars only come with automatic transmissions=20 because of it. If there's interest I'll post. Markus Strobl 96 Z28 6M. 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Haltech is - -> an Australian invention. Perhaps that's why the US Haltech people seemed so clueless a few years ago when I was trying to get information from them. The "technician" on the phone didn't know if their systems were speed-density or mass air. Brrr.... ====dave.williams@xxx.us========================DoD#978======= can you help me...help me get out of this place?...slow sedation... ain't my style, ain't my pace...giving me a number...NINE, SEVEN, EIGHT ==5.0 RX7 -> Tyrannosaurus RX! == SAE '82 == Denizens of Doom M/C '92== ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V0 #22 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".