DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, 6 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 003 In this issue: Electronic Ignition Re: Automotive Electronics Journal Re: Electronic Ignition Re: Gasification Re: Electronic Ignition Re: DIY_EFI Vendor List Re: Electronic Ignition RE: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 RE: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 Re: DIY_EFI Vendor List Re: Gasification RE: CRANE EFI System - InterACQ package Re: Gasification RE: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 Re: Gasification Re: Gasification See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Beggs@xxx. Beggs) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 08:00:39 PST Subject: Electronic Ignition Not exactly efi but still related, would someone explain the input circuit of a ignition module driven from a magnetic pickup. The magnetic pickup output is a low level AC signal and it drives what? Thanks. -------------------------------------- | John W. Beggs, | | BC Hydro, | | 6911 Southpoint Drive, | | Burnaby, B.C., V3N 4X8, Canada. | | (604)528-2776; FAX (604) 528-1883| -------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Doug Rorem Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:28:53 -0600 Subject: Re: Automotive Electronics Journal >To all, >could someone help me find the fax and phone number for a magazine I used to >get years ago. It was called the "Automotive Electronics Journal" and had >great information on automotive/engine management electronics. I'm not sure >if it is still published. >The old address I have is: PO Box 3011, Southeastern,PA 19398-3011 USA. > > regards, > Mark Boxsell. Mark... | TITLE: Automotive electronics journal. | PLACE: [New York, N.Y. : |PUBLISHER: Fairchild Publications, | YEAR: 1989 9999 | PUB TYPE: Serial | FORMAT: v. : ill. ; 38 cm. |FREQUENCY: Biweekly |NUMBERING: Began with Oct. 9, 1989 issue? | NOTES: Description based on: Vol. 1, no. 7 (Oct. 23, 1989); title from | caption. | ISSN: 1054-4828; 1041-9934; 1041-9334 | SUBJECT: Automobiles -- Electronic equipment -- Periodicals. |ALT TITLE: Automotive electronics journal | Automotive electronic news 1041-9934 (DLC)sn 88003382 | (OCoLC)18899105 The computer I checked said that it's held only at the Library of Congress (Washington DC) and at Rockwell International in Michigan which looked strange. I called Fairchild (book division) in New York and they said the journal was stopped a long time ago and wasn't picked up by anyone else. Fairchild Books & Visuals 7 E 12th Street NY, NY 10003 phone # 800-247-6622 212-887-1866 - -- Doug Rorem University of Illinois at Chicago (312)-996-5439 [voice] EECS Department RM 1120 (312)-413-1065 [fax] 851 S. Morgan Street (708)-996-2226 [pager] Chicago, IL 60607-7053 rorem@xxx.edu ------------------------------ From: walter@xxx.com (thomas walter x5955) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 12:02:16 CST Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition > Not exactly efi but still related, would someone explain the input circuit > of a ignition module driven from a magnetic pickup. The magnetic pickup > output is a low level AC signal and it drives what? Input circuitry would be a comparator. The signal will grow with rpms, some some sort of gain circuitry should be used to provide an offset reference. Darn, really wish I could sketch a simple circuit (It is pretty straight forward once you see it). Might be easiest to try to find a datasheet for a "High Energy Ignition Circuit" such as the Motorola MC3334P. (The datasheet note "designed to serve the aftermarket Delco five terminal ignition applications"). Hmm, not sure if that device is being built anymore (it is listed in my '88 edition of the Motorola Linear and Interface databook). Tom Walter Austin, TX. ------------------------------ From: ehernan3@xxx.com (Edward Hernandez (R)) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:54:21 +0500 Subject: Re: Gasification "Despite up-front speculation, things don't appear to work that way. BMEP/BTU for propane and NG are no better than for gasoline engines, except at very low RPM." That's primarily because the energy content(MJ/kg) of propane and NG are nearly the same as gasoline, not because of droplet size. But since gaseous fuels DO displace more volume, propane(and especially NG) mixtures have less bang for the buck in terms of MJ/m^3. No practical fuel can beat gasoline for this, especially when completely vaporized, which is another reason why propane and NG are no better. Droplet size DOES affect fuel conversion efficiency, which is pretty good for gasoline to begin with. But more importantly, smaller drops increase burn rates, which allow one to run the engine much leaner and/or consume more EGR, both of which reduce feedgas emissions and improve fuel efficiency significantly. Faster burn rates allow higher compression ratios, which increases fuel efficiency and power. ------------------------------ From: Bruce Bowling Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 14:17:27 EST Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition ~ Might be easiest to try to find a datasheet for a "High ~ Energy Ignition Circuit" such as the Motorola MC3334P. (The ~ datasheet note "designed to serve the aftermarket Delco five ~ terminal ignition applications"). Hmm, not sure if that device ~ is being built anymore (it is listed in my '88 edition of the ~ Motorola Linear and Interface databook). ~ ~ Tom Walter ~ Austin, TX. ~ ~ I just "discovered" the National chip LM1815, which is an adaptive reluctance amplifier. The neat thing about this chip is it has different triggering modes, one of which is the adaptive mode which requires the positive input spike to be at least 80% of the preceeding pulse, in order to reduce fale triggerings. The chip produces a pulse on zero-crossing (positive to negative) and has an on-board triggered one-shot. They cost around $3.50 and looks like it is available. - - Bruce - -- - ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@xxx.gov http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling - ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: dn Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 14:20:31 MDT Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Vendor List > Attached to this note is a self-extracting zip file that will > produce a MS Word doccument named Vendor.Doc...Hopefully this will > solve the format problems with the earlier list... > First, I would like to say that you haven't solved my problem. My mail system is a UNIX based OS that has a standard mail package. Problem is that it will not accept any form of binary attachment unless it is UUENCODED. UUENCODing is supposed to be the norm on the Internet, but with the proliferation of new software seems it is being ignored. Secondly, to the authors whose word processor doesn't end lines with a CRLF, --- YER PISSIN' ME OFF! My mail system simply crashes when it receives a message with a line length of 3874 characters, and it takes me an hour to recover from it so's I can read my mail. I don't know if I'm the only one with these problems. If so, I'll shut up and wait for a software upgrade. Used to be, everyone was nice and stuck to the Internet standards, now it seems that you can ignore the rules and damn the inconvenience to anybody else. Those are my thoughts, not yours dn - -- \/<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/\ ------------------------------ From: dn Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 14:26:56 MDT Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition > > > Not exactly efi but still related, would someone explain the input circuit > > of a ignition module driven from a magnetic pickup. The magnetic pickup > Might be easiest to try to find a datasheet for a "High > Energy Ignition Circuit" such as the Motorola MC3334P. (The Allegro Microsystems makes the chip used in the 7 pin GM module. Their data sheet is a bit brief, but explains the internal workings to a certain degree. I think motorola is still making the 3334 for aftermarket module makers. Either company may have application notes for the devices which would be a wealth of info. dn - -- \/<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/\ ------------------------------ From: dn Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 14:35:41 MDT Subject: RE: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 Re: > Racetech Engineering > Bay G 1007 55th Ave. N.E. > Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2E6W1 > Phone: (403) 274-0154 Since I live in Calgary, I gave these guys a call. The system they sell is for port injection only (no TBI) and is a fuel only system at present (no ignition control) They are in the process of revamping the design to include full Engine Management capabilities. This unit will be coming out mid 96. The good thing about it, it's cheap. Comes with LCD display/programmer, MAP and O2 sensors, and it's $CDN860, which is a little over US$600. Sounds ok in principle, I got some brochures coming in the mail, if it sounds good I'll go take a look. If anyone wants updates, drop me a line... dn - -- \/<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/\ ------------------------------ From: jgn@xxx. Napoli) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:16:21 -0500 Subject: RE: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 I am interested in the info as to what you find.........thanks! > > >Re: > >> Racetech Engineering >> Bay G 1007 55th Ave. N.E. >> Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2E6W1 >> Phone: (403) 274-0154 > >Since I live in Calgary, I gave these guys a call. The system they >sell is for port injection only (no TBI) and is a fuel only system at >present (no ignition control) They are in the process of revamping the >design to include full Engine Management capabilities. This unit will >be coming out mid 96. The good thing about it, it's cheap. Comes >with LCD display/programmer, MAP and O2 sensors, and it's $CDN860, >which is a little over US$600. Sounds ok in principle, I got some >brochures coming in the mail, if it sounds good I'll go take a look. >If anyone wants updates, drop me a line... > >dn > > > >-- >\/<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<\/ Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@xxx.ca /\ >\/ Datalog Technology Inc. Bang: calgary!debug!dlogtech!darrell /\ >\/ Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: +1 (403) 243-2220 /\ >\/ Fax: +1 (403) 243-2872 /\ >\/ @ + /\ >\/ < /\ >\/ __/ "Ain't no substitute for clock speed or compression ratio" /\ >\/>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/\ > > > Napoli ------------------------------ From: Land Shark Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 16:29:54 -0700 Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Vendor List At 14:20 1/5/96 MDT, you wrote: >First, I would like to say that you haven't solved my problem. My >mail system is a UNIX based OS that has a standard mail package. Step one ... get PINE installed >Problem is that it will not accept any form of binary attachment >unless it is UUENCODED. UUENCODing is supposed to be the norm on the >Internet, but with the proliferation of new software seems it is being >ignored. Not any more .. MIME is the STANDARD for Binary *attachments* >Used to be, everyone was nice and stuck to >the Internet standards, now it seems that you can ignore the rules and >damn the inconvenience to anybody else. Nope, the standards changed :) Jim ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 05:50:00 +0000 Subject: Re: Gasification - -> ity, and BSFC. It was presented to the Big Three, who dismissed the - -> i= dea for a variety of reasons, all of which disgusted the inventor. - -> Hi= s name was Smokey Yunick, about whose reputation I have mixed - -> feeling= s. Ah, the Yunick Miracle Motor, the essential parts of which were "secret." Yunick used an interheater instead of an intercooler, very little water jacketing, and claimed to run the engine at temperatures approaching thermonuclear meltdown. He claimed the turbocharger was "just a check valve" and produced no boost. I never figured out how he kept it from detonating to bits. Supposedly GM and VW were both curious enough to pony up for a look, but the results were never made public. After a few typical Popular Science gosh-wow articles, the thing faded away. Yunick was a columnist for Popular Science. Yunick spent his last days at Circle Track, raving about pelicans, green cards, calling for the government to support NASCAR, and writing articles on the history of the small block Chevy which didn't agree with anything previously published. He disappeared from CT without so much as a by-your-leave a couple of issues ago. Whether he got canned for advancing senility, or if it was a result of CT's recent editorial shuffle and realignment as a "fan" magazine, I don't know. ====dave.williams@xxx.us========================DoD#978======= can you help me...help me get out of this place?...slow sedation... ain't my style, ain't my pace...giving me a number...NINE, SEVEN, EIGHT ==5.0 RX7 -> Tyrannosaurus RX! == SAE '82 == Denizens of Doom M/C '92== ------------------------------ From: Jim Pearl Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:17:22 -0600 Subject: RE: CRANE EFI System - InterACQ package - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BADBA2.797F9820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Orin, I'm CC'ing the Fordnatics list on this note as there may be many = Ford guys out there interested in this product - I hope you don't mind.=20 As for the vendor list, it worked fine for me on my PC using MS Exchange = (yeah I know - UNIX the prob - got WINZIP so you can TAR it?). I'm = pretty new to the Internet but perhaps one of the more knowledgeable = Ford guys could give you a suggestion as to how best to distribute a = large text list of EFI vendors (hint hint). BTW Ford guys, when replying = keep in mind that this mailing is going to the DIY_EFI list too so be = careful about the "reply to all" so we don't foul that list - thanks! P.S. I wrote this as I read the manual that I received from John = Mccauley (prez Saleen club). He bought the package and thought I'd be = interested in it - I'm in turn sharing it with you - I may ramble a bit = in the text (grin) - be kind! What I've got is the instruction manual for a product called InterACQ. = It's not from Crane but rather from the guy who built the Interceptor = and licensed it to Crane. The InterACQ is both a software and hardware = package for the Interceptor and Mazda PMS units. You must replace at least two EPROMs and modify the circuit board to = accept higher capacity EPROMS (one jumper). It mentions that this last = mod isn't required for PMS units which I believe are the boxes sold by = Peter Farrel here in Manassas for the RX7. It's interesting to note = while reading through the instructions that the InterACQ software = somehow registers the particular Interceptor unit as some sort of copy = protection. With some of the new chips the unit gains the ability to = work with both Mass Air and Speed Density computers. The new "off road" = chips allow you to change warm up parameters, allows it's use on 4,6,&8 = cylinder Fords. You can make "global compensations" that effect ALL = ranges of the computer such as idle, cruise, etc.. You can change the = idle speed and the speed that the idle motor reacts - however this part = won't work with the newest Crane units since it's missing some of the = circuitry (SN02460 and above). It gives you two data acquisition screens = - - one for CGA\VGA that's text and faster than the VGA only graphical = display. It allows you to set triggers for RPM and throttle opening to start and = terminate automatic data logging. The software can play back data that = has been logged and show what portion of the Interceptors data table is = being accessed for easy modification - including portions you can't = change directly because of interpolation of values. These tables show things like boost, WOT, Extended RPM, and part = throttle maps. You can log Duty cycle, Timing (assumes distributor in = STOCK location), O2 (L/R) in volts like the DFI, TPS sensor in % = (remember this is used to trigger accessories like NOS with the = Interceptor), Mass Airflow in lbs/hr of air, manifold pressure in inches = - - also the optional boost MAP sensor, and the temp of Air and Water - = this is great for those Vortech guys to see just how HOT that intake air = is (grin) - love that intercooler! Net fuel and timing adjustments are = also displayed and logged - such as 8% for boost + 10% adjustment from = WOT=3D18% total. Status of the smart inputs and smart switches is also = displayed. The instructions go on to describe how the Interceptor is setup to = trigger manually and automatically. A caution about the fact that data = is stored in RAM is mentioned and then goes on to tell how to download = it - remember because of the 640K limit you only get about 12 minutes of = data - still not too shabby! My DFI does like 15 seconds at full tilt! = It doesn't mention how quickly it grabs data, the DFI does it as fast as = the processor allows and delivers reams. On a normal log though it's = only once per second and that's really bad - I can go from 2000 RPM to = redline and into the next gear sometimes in that time period - not cool = for troubleshooting! The manual then goes on to describe how the data can be converted to = text and looked at via a text editor. From looking at it I can tell you = that some serious macros in Excel or something will have to be done - = the DFI output is MUCH easier. The Interceptor software here will = actually give you numbers that represent the voltages of things like = temp sensors etc.. The software doesn't make these conversions from the = A to D converter so it's a little weird. Of course since my DFI is using = a few Ford sensors some of the readings for Water temp and such are off. = The Air temp appears correct though, bet some of the Vortech guys wish = they could have ambient +10 degrees or so going into their intake = (smile). One last thing that looked nice - the software manual mentions that = there are a few maintenance menus - one of which allows updates to the = software as well as backups for some of the data contained in the unit = (with some bold cautions earlier in the manual about that). Another note as I read this back over - John mentioned beating on them = to create a handheld unit with a backlit display and other features. If = you're serious about using the Interceptor like at least one friend of = mine you know that the lack of a backlight is a real pain in the rear! = If you want this and other features contact these people. I know they've = been working on this software and other features for at least a couple = of years. I nearly went with an Interceptor years ago but didn't because = I'd have had to rely on a friend of a friend buddy buddy thing to get = this software bootleg - I understand that back then it was against his = marketing agreements for this guy to sell it per Crane. He's out from = under them now apparently and I'm told that he's a good guy (I've spoken = some to him and had a good experience years ago). I don't remember the = price quoted for this software but it wasn't too bad. I'll update = everyone as I get more info. I'd really like to hear more about the Ford = piggyback I understand will be released sometime late in '96 too... The company's name is Plus 1 Micro, Inc. P.O. Box 1781 - Lawrenceville, = GA - 30246-1781. No phone number seen in the manual but I'll try to get = it for everyone. Last but not least I swear - anyone interested in trading DFI MAPS or = discussing the system i.e. tricks and tips for programming it contact = me, I'm cooperative but not real good when it comes to tuning I'm afraid = (sigh). Hope this was helpful! - ---------- >From: Orin B. Harding[SMTP:orin@xxx.net] Sent: Friday, January 05, 1996 8:12 AM To: JVP@xxx.com Subject: CRANE EFI System Jim, Would you please post the information you have on the CRANE EFI = system...Also, I've had several negative comments regarding the VENDOR = list zip file, those without PC based systems cannot read the file. Any = suggestions as to how I should send this file to make it usable to all? = Thanks... 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Like jets engines that use regeneration, some of energy that is lost out thru the exhausr pipe is "pumped" back into the engine. Gee, I actually learned something in Thermo. See ya, Mike ------------------------------ From: Brad_Miller@xxx.com (Miller,Brad) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 22:24:02 -0500 Subject: RE: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 Hmm - - the brochures that I got had the ignition module in it - - cost for basic fuel mixture was $682. Ignition control was $903 and Full (with knock control) was $1003. Interesting to know if it isn't really available yet . . . . otherwise I got those brochures and instructions in error . . . . hmm . . . - ---------- <*>From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu <*>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu <*>Cc: diy_efi@xxx.edu <*>Subject: RE: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 <*>Date: Friday, January 05, 1996 12:35PM <*> <*> <*> <*>Re: <*> <*>> Racetech Engineering <*>> Bay G 1007 55th Ave. N.E. <*>> Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2E6W1 <*>> Phone: (403) 274-0154 <*> <*>Since I live in Calgary, I gave these guys a call. The system they <*>sell is for port injection only (no TBI) and is a fuel only system at <*>present (no ignition control) They are in the process of revamping the <*>design to include full Engine Management capabilities. This unit will <*>be coming out mid 96. The good thing about it, it's cheap. Comes <*>with LCD display/programmer, MAP and O2 sensors, and it's $CDN860, <*>which is a little over US$600. Sounds ok in principle, I got some <*>brochures coming in the mail, if it sounds good I'll go take a look. <*>If anyone wants updates, drop me a line... <*> <*>dn <*> <*> <*> <*>-- <*>\/<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<\/ Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@xxx.ca /\ <*>\/ Datalog Technology Inc. Bang: calgary!debug!dlogtech!darrell /\ <*>\/ Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: +1 (403) 243-2220 /\ <*>\/ Fax: +1 (403) 243-2872 /\ <*>\/ @ + /\ <*>\/ < /\ <*>\/ __/ "Ain't no substitute for clock speed or compression ratio" /\ <*>\/>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>/\ <*> ------------------------------ From: "Clinton L. Corbin" Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 19:35:02 PST Subject: Re: Gasification ------------------------------ From: "Clinton L. Corbin" Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 19:44:25 PST Subject: Re: Gasification >Hey there, > >It was asked if efficiencies came from the turbo or "gasification". Like >jets engines that use regeneration, some of energy that is lost out thru the >exhausr pipe is "pumped" back into the engine. Gee, I actually learned >something in Thermo. > >See ya, > >Mike Just want to add my two cents about this engine! If I remember right, he was heating the air BEFORE it was compressed. The regeneration used on turbines is AFTER compression, but before it reaches the combustion chamber. Adding heat after compression is good, adding it before is bad. That was one area of that motor that just didn't ring true. Besides, you can bet you bottom dollar that if this motor was really so great, GM or Ford (or Honda, or Toyota, or ...) would have jumped on it. Look how much money they spend each year trying to make motors just a little bit "cleaner" and a little bit more fuel efficient. Any of the "it was bought out because it was too good" conspiricies (SP?) are a joke. The laws of thermodynamics are pretty much set. One more thing to think about: if it really was so good, way didn't they release any hard data on the thing? Just something to think about. Clint ccorbin@xxx.com -- Needless to say, nothing I chat about has anything to do with my employer. ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #3 *************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".