DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 28 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 058 In this issue: Re: Injector driver chips? Where? Re: New EFI reference Re: New EFI reference Re: Injector driver chips? Where? Re: spark and MAP Re: spark and MAP RE: B&S fuel-pump Re: Injector driver chips? Where? Thoughts on crank angle sensing Re: Injector driver chips? Where? Re: Injector driver chips? Where? Re: Injector driver chips? Where? maillists re: Re: New EFI reference RE: B&S fuel-pump Weber injector and computer questions for motorcycles. RE: Blow off valve See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mpm@xxx.com (Martin Mayhead) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 10:12:51 GMT Subject: Re: Injector driver chips? Where? > > Look at national's LM1949, it is a single piece part, but is very flexible. > It is being tested to also see if it will work as an ignition driver. Very > flexible, and not to expensive. > > Sandy > Beware - this chip does not operate as a switch mode controller and so the darlington dissipates a lot of heat! It does allow for a low part count solution but fixes the ratio of peak to hold current to 4. . . . > >Have you checked out the L584 from SGS-Thomson? > >You can build a complete driver circuit with one L584 (DIP16), two darlingtons > >and a few resitors and capacitors. The L584 can be set up to use one of four > >diffrent load current waveshapes, including peak-hold-drop and peak-drop. > >I don't know if the IC is easy to get hold of, or if it's still in production. The L584 is still in production from SGS - they are not easy to get hold of though, I typically get quoted 25-40 week lead times. This is a very flexible chip though and because it works in switch mode the darlingtons don't dissipate much heat (about 1/4 that of LM1949 design). It will produce some RFI because the inductor (injector) is switched fairly fast and is on the end of a long piece of wire (aerial). This solution allows any peak/hold ratio to be implemented. The chip costs about 2.50 (pounds Sterling) in 25 off. Regards, Martin Mayhead ------------------------------ From: Brad Martin Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 07:10:09 -0500 Subject: Re: New EFI reference At 04:00 PM 2/26/96 CST, you wrote: >A list of references on Engine Management, fuel injection, >commercial FI systems, EFI related parts and components. > >Currently maintained by Steve Ravet >sravet@xxx.com >Available via WWW at: >http://www/dcc/edu/vettenet/efi_eft.txt I tried ea of the following: http://www/dcc/edu/vettenet/efi_eft.txt http://www.dcc.edu/vettenet/efi_eft.txt http://www.dcc.edu/vettenet/efi_eft.html http://www.dcc.edu/vettenet/efi_eft.htm got the following error message for ea of them: Not Found The requested object does not exist on this server. The link you followed is either outdated, inaccurate, or the server has been instructed not to let you have it. can someone pls calrify the URL? ==== Also, you may want to check out: http://www.win.net/bmicad/welcome.html (bmi CAD's homepage) http://www.win.net/bmicad/strahome.html (Stealth Racing's homepage) http://www.win.net/bmicad/nehahome.html (New England Hillclimb Association) http://www.win.net/bmicad/icetrial.html (Mo-HUD SCCA ice time trials info) Peace- The Hacker '92 Subaru SVX '84 VW Rabbit GTI ex-PRO Rally car, now all 'round racer/beater '83 VW Rabbit GTI PRO Rally Car wannabe - hillclimbs too '81 VW Scirocco S street car TBD '79 VW Scirocco ice racer ------------------------------ From: Fred Miranda Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 05:45:53 GMT Subject: Re: New EFI reference > >I tried ea of the following: >http://www/dcc/edu/vettenet/efi_eft.txt >http://www.dcc.edu/vettenet/efi_eft.txt >http://www.dcc.edu/vettenet/efi_eft.html >http://www.dcc.edu/vettenet/efi_eft.htm > >got the following error message for ea of them: > >Not Found try http://www.dcc.edu/vettenet/efi_ref.txt Fred ------------------------------ From: Bohdan.L.Bodnar@xxx.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:04:07 -0600 Subject: Re: Injector driver chips? Where? > > Brad Sheridan wrote: > > > > > Does anyone have/ know where to get the Motorola MC33293T chip? > > > > Does anyone have any reccomendations for decent > peak&hold injector driver circuits? In a quad package would be a > real plus. > >>>Note that the 33293 is NOT peak and hold. It's a quad driver intended >>>for high impedence injectors. >>> >>>The Harris HIP0081is functionally equivalent, ie. quad current >>>limiting driver with serial diagnostics interface. Information on all >>>these devices (and heaps more) is on the motorola and harris web >>>pages: >>> >>>http://motserv.indirect.com/ >>>http://www.semi.harris.com/ Shucks, a *real* do-it-yourselfer will *design* his/her own injector driver circuit! I thought about this and said, "hmmm... this IS interesting!" How's this for starters? 1). Stock injector takes about 1.2 ms to open 2). For minimum heat dissipation, use bang-bang control (current full on, current full off) 3). Strictly digital Here's what I'd do: Build a clock circuit which runs at, say, 10 kHz (this is easy) and sync the injector control signal from the computer to this clock (requires one edge-triggered flip-flop -- 1/2 of a 7474 dual D FF will do). We now have a synchronized control pulse. Now, get a modulo-12 counter; this counter will reset every 1.2 ms (12 * 100 uS). Now build a simple state machine which will (1) reset the counter to hex C (decimal 12) when no injector "on" signal is present, (2) turn the injector fully on for 12 clock cycles when the injector "on" signal comes and (3) pulse the current to the injector "on" for 100 uS, "off" for 100 uS, on for 100 uS, etc. as long as the injector control signal is "on." What I outlined is essentially what Chrysler did in its TBI engines in the 1980s. I'd use a power MOSFET to drive the injector -- this way, I probably wouldn't even need to heatsink the transistor (unless the injector shorted). For more exotic control, I'd stick a small resistor (an ohm, perhaps) in series with the injector and feed the voltage across it to a voltage comparator. If the voltage across the resistor exceeds a threshold, the driver goes into current limiting. This can be achieved by reducing the 1.2 ms peak period (i.e., go into "hold" immediately when maximum current is met). Since a typical peak current is 5 amps and hold current is 1 amp, a threshold for current limiting could be 5 volts. I can think of other variations on this topic (e.g., play around with the duty cycle during the hold period, modify the peak period for either 1.2 ms or until threshold current is reached -- this is for the case when there's excessive resistance in the circuit -- and so forth). Any comments? Cordially, Bohdan Bodnar Lucent Technologies, Inc. ------------------------------ From: Bohdan.L.Bodnar@xxx.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:11:12 -0600 Subject: Re: spark and MAP Two types of advance mechanisms are required: rpm and load. For the former, keep in mind that a flame in the combustion chamber takes about 3 ms to burn. Hence, timing has to be advanced with increased rpm -- otherwise, much of the combustion will take place in the exhause manifold! The advance is also a function of the engine's load. Timing must decrease as load increases, and increase as load decreases. This is because the a/f mixture requirements will change as a function of load. A lean mixture will take more time to burn than a rich mixture. Thus, at heavy load, a rich a/f mixture is present and the timing has to be retarded. At light load, the timing will be advanced. A MAP sensor is merely a load indicator to the powertrain control system. Cordially, Bohdan Bodnar Lucent Technologies, Inc. ------------------------------ From: Bruce Bowling Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 9:37:48 EST Subject: Re: spark and MAP ~ ~ ~ I was inspired to design my own ignition controller by Tim Drury's DDIS project article (thanks). ~ I'm thinking of later adding also a separate EFI system, but that will require some more ~ study and reading of this list... ~ ~ I have one open question: Is there a real benefit in adding a MAP input to an ~ ignition system, or do the timing just by rpm curve? ~ The MAP sensor is the equivalent to the vacuum-advance on a distributor, and the rpm curve is equivalent to the distributor flying weights. If your car runs fine without vacuum advance, then you do not need the MAP. - - Bruce - -- - ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@xxx.gov http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling - ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Tommy.Palm@xxx.se Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:55:48 -0500 Subject: RE: B&S fuel-pump Item Subject: Meddelandetext > >Hans wrote: >> >> My problem is to DRIVE the pump! >> A Bosch-car-fuel-pump consumes around 12 V 58W, >> my alternator brings 6V 60W. Aren't there any belt- or vacuum driven >> fuel-pumps? > >Darrel wrote: >Another suggestion: I believe that Volkswagen Beetles used a small >electric pump to run the gas powered heater, this may be suitable for a >small 2 cyl engine, although I have no idea what kind of pressure it puts >out... > > Hello! I did a small test yesterday for you. I had 5 different injectionfuelpumps in my private collection and tried for fun a D-jett 12V from a -72 mercedes, it's the same on every old Bosch d-jett i've seen. Volvo P-1800 had a pump with only 2 Amp current though. These ordinary ones draw 3,15 amp at 12volt and 2,5 bar (37 psi). I tried it with lower voltage and it starts at only 1,6 volts and pumps fairly good at 6 volts and draws then 2,95 amps (17-18 watt). I did i with real fuel and 2,5 bars pressureregulator. I guess you will use even lower fuelpress. It's possible to dissassemble and do a gearbox drive from the engine but then you will have some problems to reach full fuelpress before starting engine. I also have the smaller VW pump Darrel mentioned but it's also a low press pump, not suitable for normal injectors. Hope this gave you hope! Tommy tommy.palm@xxx.se ------------------------------ From: John S Gwynne Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 10:07:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Injector driver chips? Where? - -------- In message <9602271012.AA25333@benjy> , you write: | > | > Look at national's LM1949, it is a single piece part, but is very flexible. | > It is being tested to also see if it will work as an ignition driver. Very | > flexible, and not to expensive. | > | > Sandy | > | | Beware - this chip does not operate as a switch mode controller and so the | darlington dissipates a lot of heat! It does allow for a low part count | solution but fixes the ratio of peak to hold current to 4. No... take another look at the 7th page of the data sheets. I was playing with this last night. John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@xxx.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7297 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Paul E. Campbell" Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:09:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Thoughts on crank angle sensing I've been thinking about high resolution crank angle sensors lately..what does anyone think about the following ideas? First, I want to get away from doing all the work in the CPU (reducing load on the CPU)..but, I still want a measurement of maximum torque angle, position, and overall velocity. Position is simple..the usual missing pulse detector will pick it out. And then position itself can be handled by cleaning up a high resolution crank angle sensor (200+ teeth) and sending the pulse train to a counter..the missing pulse detector triggers the reset. This provides an instantaneous angle position by simply reading the counter. To get to velocity, I think a better way to go is to feed the pulse train into a simple phase locked loop circuit, which will calculate the derivative AND have the advantage of cleaning noise off the signal by altering the characteristics of the loop filter. This will also give average torque by assuming the engine mass is constant. As for instantaneous acceleration, another op-amp circuit can do a high pass filter on the PLL's output. From acceleration, we can also calculate instantaneous torque. By looking for peaks in this signal (another PLL or another derivative?), the position of maximum torque can be located. As far as the various loops go, either digital or analog would work fine. I think digital may be the way to go after a certain point even though the filters are probably easier in analog circuitry because otherwise you are going to need A/D's all over the place and possibly fast ones at that. What I think would be a nice first step is to place current sensors (yes, I'm just going to wrap a couple loops around the line of interest and feed it to a buffer circuit) on various parts of the currently working vehicle sensors (spark, fuel injector, existing crank angle sensor). Then install the crank angle sensor. I would build a digital data acquisition box to collect all the data (soon to be the engine computer) and analyze it all offline. That way I can at least test out the sensor system before I actually start replacing the original parts. My goal would be to get to a working multiple coil MSD system first (which is mostly a timing problem), then move up to the fuel injectors. Yes, I still have this image of a mostly hardware-based system with a CPU providing tweaking on constants in counters and such instead of attempting to do the raw calculations right down to crank angle position and velocity in the CPU itself. ------------------------------ From: bs73@xxx.edu (Brad Sheridan) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:57:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Injector driver chips? Where? > Brad: > > Where did you get this part number? I really didn't look too close on the > original post, I assumed you were referring to the MC3484 chips... I looked > in my data book and couldn't find a MC33293 (mind you, my data book's a bit > dated). Is this a newer version of the 3484? I talked to my local suppliers > and it appears that the 3484 is discontinued in all flavors, no one has had > stock for some time. Mind you, I haven't talked to Motorola directly, so > who knows. From a couple of the other posts on this subject, it looks like > SGS Thompson is now second sourcing them, though... The problem with these > chips is that they are not your average consumer chip, so hardly anyone has > them in stock. Keep me posted if you find some. Its a new chip, I guess its the replacement of the 3484. There's a little info on it at the Motorola site. For the full data sheets, you have to use the Motorola fax service. Not that it really matters, as it won't be available for quite some time. Plus, as someone else pointed out, it doesn't appear to be the peak/hold circuit I was under the impression that it was. If you want I can set up the data sheets for ftp. Later, Brad ------------------------------ From: mpm@xxx.com (Martin Mayhead) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 17:05:18 GMT Subject: Re: Injector driver chips? Where? > > -------- > > In message <9602271012.AA25333@benjy> , you write: > > | > > | > Look at national's LM1949, it is a single piece part, but is very flexible. > | > It is being tested to also see if it will work as an ignition driver. Very > | > flexible, and not to expensive. > | > > | > Sandy > | > > | > | Beware - this chip does not operate as a switch mode controller and so the > | darlington dissipates a lot of heat! It does allow for a low part count > | solution but fixes the ratio of peak to hold current to 4. > > No... take another look at the 7th page of the data sheets. I > was playing with this last night. > > John S Gwynne > Gwynne.1@xxx.edu > _______________________________________________________________________________ > T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y > ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA > Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7297 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > John is of course right but I got the impression from the data sheet that the switch-mode usage was not reccomended - maybe because of the RFI considerations. The problem I have with using the LM1949 as a switch-mode controller is that the zener has to dump a lot of power - this may be both more expensive and more difficult to package than a design using the L584. Lastly one should beware that NatSemi are pretty good at giving out samples but when it comes to buying parts such as these (automotive special function) they always quote me horrendously large minimum order quantities. Maybe this is no worse than the SGS lead time? I am really interested to hear about the L9335/9336 chips - they sound like the (near-)perfect solution. Regards, Martin Mayhead ------------------------------ From: Sandy Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:49:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Injector driver chips? Where? At 10:07 AM 2/27/96 -0500, you wrote: >-------- > > In message <9602271012.AA25333@benjy> , you write: > >| > >| > Look at national's LM1949, it is a single piece part, but is very flexible. >| > It is being tested to also see if it will work as an ignition driver. Very >| > flexible, and not to expensive. >| > >| > Sandy >| > >| >| Beware - this chip does not operate as a switch mode controller and so the >| darlington dissipates a lot of heat! It does allow for a low part count >| solution but fixes the ratio of peak to hold current to 4. > >No... take another look at the 7th page of the data sheets. I >was playing with this last night. > > John S Gwynne > Gwynne.1@xxx.edu I saw that too! but it looks like it has the makings of an old spark gap transmitter, with all the associated RFI problems that you could imagine. Sandy ------------------------------ From: Brad Martin Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:20:27 -0500 Subject: maillists It seems that I've answered my own question... So here it is for those who asked for the replies... any other lists out there? > rec.autos: Automotive Mailing Lists > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From welty@xxx.com (richard welty) > Organization CMA Consulting, Schenectady, NY USA > Date 23 Feb 1996 00:03:04 -0500 > Keywords Monthly Posting > Newsgroups rec.autos.misc,rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.sport.misc,rec.autos.sport.nascar,re c.autos.sport.f1,rec.autos.sport.indy,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.vw > Message-ID <4gjhq8$ikb@xxx.com> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Automotive Mailing Lists (Electronic Mail, that is): > > [last updated 1/29/95; new address for rx7, z-car lists, new Nissan > Maxima list -- rpw] > > There are a number of electronic mailing lists on the network devoted to > various special automotive topics. Some of these are very specialized, > and at the end of this posting I list a number that are focused on > the activities of specific localized clubs. > > To the best of my knowledge, all the lists appearing here have open > membership policies. It is my policy not to list `closed' mailing lists > here. > > The information in this listing is only as good as my informants; > if a list stops working or moves, i will not necessarily be informed > of it. > > The current version of this list is available via anonymous FTP: > > ftp://ftp.balltown.cma.com/pub/misc/Autos/mailing-lists.text > > It is maintained by Richard Welty (welty@xxx. > > Most mailing lists provide separate addresses for administrative > queries and for general mail; where separate administrative > addresses exist, I have listed those below, as the general addresses > are not appropriate for inquirys and requests. > > Listserv, listproc & majordomo: > > these are the three most common automatic list handlers. Listserv > and listproc take similar commands; majordomo is subtly different. > commands for all three should be in the body of the mail message. > a listserv/listproc request to join the honda list should look like > the following: > > sub HONDA-L Joe. W. Newbie > > note the real name. listserv/listproc will get the email address from the > message header. > > a majordomo request to join the italian cars list should look like > > subscribe italian-cars-digest newbie@xxx.com > > note the email address and lack of real name. the email address is > optional; if omitted, majordomo will extract the real name from > the message header (this is often the best way to handle this.) > > ------------- > > Acura > (see Honda list below) > > Acura NSX > (send requests to majordomo@xxx.edu; > majordomo command is subscribe nsx) > > Alfa Romeo Digest > (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com; majordomo > command is subscribe alfa-digest) > > AMC (American Motors Corporation) > (send requests to listserv@xxx.edu; the listserv command is > subscribe amc-list Your Real Name Here) > > American Sedan (SCCA road race class, 5.0L Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds) > (send requests to asedan-request@xxx.com) > > Audi > (send requests to majordomo@xxx.net, command is > subscribe quattro) > > Autocross/Solo > (send requests to autox-request@xxx.net, handled by > majordomo) > > Autorace (autoracing, particularly NASCAR, F1, Indycar. also > see wheeltowheel below for another interesting list. > send requests to listserv@xxx.edu) > > Datsun Bluebird/1600/510 > (send requests to bluebirds-request@xxx.com) > > BMW Digest > (majordomo list; send requests > to bmw-digest-request@xxx.com) > > British Cars > (send requests to majordomo@xxx.net, command is > subscribe british-cars) > > British Cars (pre-war) > (send requests to majordomo@xxx.net, command is > subscribe british-cars-pre-war) > > Buick Grand National/Turbo Regal/GNX > (send requests to gnttype-request@xxx.com) > > Camaro/Firebird (GM F-body) > (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com, command is > subscribe f-body-digest) > > Citroen 2cv > (send requests to listproc@xxx.edu, command is > subscribe 2cv-l Fred Q. 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list name is classic-mustangs) > > Neon > (send requests to neon-request@xxx.edu, run by majordomo) > > Nissan (Datsun) > (appears to have vanished. sorry.) > > Nissan Maxima > (send requests to maxima-request@xxx.com, include the word > "subscribe" in the body of the message) > > Offroad & 4X4 > (send requests to offroad-request@xxx.edu) > > Oldsmobile > (send requests to majordomo@xxx.ca, command is > "subscribe oldsmobile") > > Peugeot > (send requests to peugeot-request@xxx.ca; > this appears to be a majordomo list) > > Porsches > (send requests to porschephiles-request@xxx.com) > > Portland, Oregon Motorsports Activities > (send requests to pdxracer-request@xxx.edu) > > Race Car Fabrication > (send requests to racefab@xxx.com) > > Rally > (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com; the majordomo > commands are "subscribe rally-l" or "subscribe rally-l-digest") > > RX7 > (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com; the majordomo > commands are "subscribe rx7" or "subscribe rx7-digest") > > Saabs > (send requests to saab@xxx.com) > > Saabs (UK) > (send requests to saab-request@xxx.uk) > > Saturn > (send requests to saturn-request@xxx.com) > > School (high performance driving schools) > (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com) > > Sentra SE-R, G20, N2000 > (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com; majordomo > commands are one of: > subscribe se-r-reflective > subscribe se-r-digest) > > Sports Car Racing > (for the discussion of Sports Car Racing such as done by > IMSA, etc., _not_ for general discussion of road going cars. > send request to listserv@xxx.uk; the command is > subscribe sportscar-l "Your Real Name") > > Sunbeam Alpines > (send requests to alpines-request@xxx.net) > > Sunbeam Tigers > (request address unclear; list is at tigers@xxx.com) > > Supras > (send requests to supras-request@xxx.com) > > Talon/Eclipse/Laser > (send requests to talon-request@xxx.com) > > Taurus SHO > (send requests to listserv@xxx.us; > listserv command is probably subscribe shotimes "My Real Name") > > Thunderbirds (classic & vintage) > (send requests to gwotel@xxx.net) > > Toyota > (send requests to listproc2@xxx.edu; use listserv style commands) > > Toyota Corolla > (send requests to corolla-request@xxx.com) > > Triumph Stag > (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com; command > in body of message is "subscribe stag") > > Triumph TR7/V8, TR8 > (send requests to tr8-request@xxx.edu) > > Touring Car Racing > (for the discussion of Touring Car Racing such as done by > BTC, DTM2, etc., _not_ for general discussion of road going cars. > send request to listserv@xxx.uk; the command is > subscribe touringcar-l "Your Real Name") > > VW (aircooled) > (send requests to listserv@xxx.edu; use normal > listserv format) > > VW Vanagon > (send requests to listserv@xxx.edu; use normal > listserv format) > > Wheel-to-Wheel Racing > (forum for race drivers, workers, crew, and wannabes; > send requests to wheeltowheel-request@xxx.com) > > Z-Cars (Nissan/Datsun) > (send requests to majordomo@xxx.EDU) > > Localized lists: > > Empire Motor Sports Club (Albany NY) > (send requests to emsc-request@xxx.com; list is > managed by majordomo) > > Mohawk Hudson Region, SCCA (Albany NY) > (send requests to mohud-request@xxx.com; list is > managed by majordomo) > > Pacific Northwest Region > (pdxracer@xxx.edu) > > Tidewater Sports Car Club, Norfolk VA and surrounds > (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com; use normal majordomo > commands) > -- > me: http://www.balltown.cma.com/~welty/ > unofficial SCCA page: http://www.emi.com/~rwelty/scca/ > N American Road Race track info: http://www.emi.com/~rwelty/tracks/ ==== Also, you may want to check out: http://www.win.net/bmicad/welcome.html (bmi CAD's homepage) http://www.win.net/bmicad/strahome.html (Stealth Racing's homepage) http://www.win.net/bmicad/nehahome.html (New England Hillclimb Association's homepage) http://www.win.net/bmicad/icetrial.html (Mo-HUD SCCA ice time trials info) Peace- The Hacker '92 Subaru SVX '84 VW Rabbit GTI ex-PRO Rally car, now all 'round racer/beater '83 VW Rabbit GTI PRO Rally Car wannabe - hillclimbs too '81 VW Scirocco S street car TBD '79 VW Scirocco ice racer ------------------------------ From: SRavet@xxx.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 12:33:28 CST Subject: re: Re: New EFI reference Fred Miranda Wrote: | | > | >I tried ea of the following: | >http://www/dcc/edu/vettenet/efi_eft.txt | >http://www.dcc.edu/vettenet/efi_eft.txt | >http://www.dcc.edu/vettenet/efi_eft.html | >http://www.dcc.edu/vettenet/efi_eft.htm | > | >got the following error message for ea of them: | > | >Not Found | try http://www.dcc.edu/vettenet/efi_ref.txt | | Fred | | Oops, I had a typo. Fred is correct, the url is http://www.dcc.edu/vettenet/efi_ref.txt I've seen a few more parts descriptions recently, so I'll probably post an updated list again in a few days. For now, if you have a favorite FI related part or chip, send it in and I'll add it. If you can add more to the descriptions of existing parts, send that also. Send it to the list or to me directly. Steve Ravet sravet@xxx.com Baby you're a genius when it comes to cooking up some chili sauce... ------------------------------ From: jgn@xxx. Napoli) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:16:18 -0500 Subject: RE: B&S fuel-pump Why not just mount the gas tank real far above the engine? :) At 09:55 AM 2/27/96 -0500, diy_efi@xxx.edu wrote: >Item Subject: Meddelandetext >> >>Hans wrote: >>> >>> My problem is to DRIVE the pump! >>> A Bosch-car-fuel-pump consumes around 12 V 58W, >>> my alternator brings 6V 60W. Aren't there any belt- or vacuum driven >>> fuel-pumps? >> Regards, John ------------------------------ From: jon.wright@xxx.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 14:27:44 PST Subject: Weber injector and computer questions for motorcycles. I have a couple of questions concerning some very specific fuel injection applications forwarded to me from a friend: Does anyone happen to know the scheme Weber uses to identify the various characteristics of their injectors, specifically the injector capacity? He is familiar with the mapping of durations, etc., but evidently there are different injectors identified by their coloration (anodizing?) and wanted to find a table or spec sheet on the various ones Weber uses. He could also use Bosch injectors in a pinch. For some reason, he cannot acquire this info directly from Weber. The second question concerns the diagnosis and repair of the P7 computer. The suspected flaw at this point is a cracked motherboard or broken trace but it shows no visible cracks. Does anyone know of a person that is handy at tracking down problems like these? For that matter, does anyone on this list do this sort of thing? He already knows FIM in Australia do, but he'd certainly like to find somebody closer here in Southern California. Thanks for any info y'all can come up with. Ciao. Jon Wright ====================================================================== jon.wright@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Jim Pearl Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:28:57 -0600 Subject: RE: Blow off valve Sounds like a quickie HKS EVC. The EVC I've got uses Fuzzy Logic to program itself. What it does is show the wastegate zero pressure until it calculates that you're about to hit the pressure you've punched in. When you hit the limit it pulses the boost solenoid to keep the pressure there. The Fuzzy Logic programming helps it "learn" the curve of your car so that it can better prevent overboost. I also get an overboost alarm, pressure readout (LCD), three levels of boost not including manual, and an overboost button that I can remotely mount that will allow the engine to overboost a programmed amount of time after I've released the button. Lot's of nice bells and whistles on this puppy. One of the nice things about it is quicker boost response. Since most wastegates are mechanical diaphragm devices they tend to begin releasing boost before full boost so you don't get full boost as quick as you'd like, the EVC holds the vacuum line to the wastegate at zero until just before max so - faster boost! BTW - mine cost about $800 freaking bucks! If you can come up with a low buck way to do this that works well there are many people who'd like to have it. There are also some nice "graphic EQ" type devices that allow higher boosts at certain RPMs - these are also expensive but nice to have devices. - ---------- >From: Bill Sarkozy[SMTP:mymove@xxx.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 1996 12:53 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Blow off valve At 01:02 PM 2/26/96, you wrote: > > ======SNIP===== > >I have been thinking about this because I was considering implementing some >sort of electronic wastegate to allow the boost limit to adjust from 12-15 >pounds at low rpm to 7-10 pounds at red-line. Why? Well the way I see it >there are all sorts of restrictions to power at the top end (air-flow, >exhaust-flow, fuel-flow) that disappear at say half red-line why not take >advantage of them? Any comments? > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Jeff Hansen >Anaheim, California, USA >JHansen777@xxx.com >http://members.gnn.com/JHansen777/car/index.htm >Seven pounds of boost is a 'Good-Thing' >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > If you had some sort of RPM-activated switch, the solution is easy......bleed off some of your boost via a solenoid valve to "fool" the wastegate at low RPM. When you hit your arbitrary limit, close the bleed solenoid and the wastegate will see full boost and react normally. Most T-Bird Turbo-Coupe owners know of this trick, but simply use a manual bleed valve to keep the boost high all the time........hang on!!!!!! begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(CH"`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F`!X,`0````4```!33510 M`````!X`'PP!````# ```$I64$!14TDN0T]-``,`!A"BEH"8`P`'$.('```> M``@xxx.1%-,24M%05%524-+245(2U-%5D-42$5%5D-)5D5' M3U154T531E5:6EE,3T=)0U1/4%)/1U)!34E44T5,1E=(051)5$1/15-)4U-( M3U=42$5705-414=!5$5:15)/4%)%``````(!"1 !````Y <``. '``"B#0`` M3%I&=;5S<-'_``H!#P(5`J@%ZP*#`% "\@D"`&-H"L!S970R-P8`!L,"@S(# MQ0(`<')"<1'B?,C4U`H ' M"H$-L0M@;FGIY($QO MPF<=@"!T;R 34"! 0')A;2!I=!&P;#IF'E!7$8 %0"% (&2&;P>1! `@\!H A@!4 @D6@B$2,2)$=[)F(?$7 <(Q$7H!Y4']H@Q2K0MQJ@)U A<' B<05 (BQP60K ;B(C`R604$D=,"M@ M_2"@9Q' '3 #H#2W-7$*P&QM+"0X%Z!A(D G`2CP3$-$*3@!& 3T&P@$ 1@)-$F!/T#\&P#( = %S B] GP(%#^;BX1(* V22^7*3$A M$#YC_S(1)/ '@!TP`8 T`1[S%Z!_,0$1L"S!*\(\LQY0(#!T]B4$] ,4)R'H'_18-',1J@1A$F MXRKB!" =8W 7Q%Q18$' M0"(P!S!P..!A]F4C M$G8`T'5U(2 <\$ T[R,<(>$C\R34:A^ 42<`P+IX,L(M4: C8DJ%(0J%\0J% M0E176I$P$3&1-J/A)N,D.# P4: WX1V@Y5"R=1V0X#(C,W/_!:!"P4>0 M/O$C$!TQ/W)>LO\C04]!(* B0$$N)$ST`' @$'!EOF\+ M4",Q(M!5%260P[TZ) M(>$_5"=@9RY!*^1&$8\E0020`9!0$5)0300@SUJ@(Q$1L&9H97AD, "!WQ\1 M/*%(E65E3I4N6YP*] T<\#%=X0(`:2TQ-)XT#? ,T'#S"UDQ-@J@ZP-@$]!C M!4 M5\- MP&E.0 6@): #<&(N/_$N!KD'_0 M+S(V+X! JS@7H7H"+G$AP/QY/R&P8P5A0S5@$;!ELO^< M)V-(/U$L00`@xxx.8,D49UP_QV )/!+02"#(N T`2'A(Q*7() M0$]R* MP&MX" 0$8 A M@xxx.4$@6;:3P060!7]&;8O1S/Y%^?K0/ MM1^UA)%V?DH-P1W0`'$)\)%VLC!A]QZ !W W,$,'0 :0!; #`&)A-S!54T&V ME[=D-W&ZL$!G;BEP7]&1=FCA`D!P.B\O!X &T 20JV[PNO4OND@O,I$O"X#Y M#;!X+KO@xxx.:#_*4"+\F<#,A8K]$ZP'4 =0/CNA-^%RX2R0-Q _44?!YP70+!$*A50M=] +('ZQ_33A+0A1:)$BX$ P$: M M`.\LD(O28>6HH6LW,&V"`)#_FR$@xxx.I\P=Q MRL3*P$UQ^S! `B AXA-;]N*/C2^5GQ=RT@J%%L$`YQ #`! 0``````,`$1 & M````0 `',& 6QY^#!;L!0 `(,& 6QY^#!;L!'@`]``$````%````4D4Z( `` $``"['0`' ` end ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #58 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".