DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 8 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 070 In this issue: Re: MC3334 question Re: Equations.. Re: Engine Analyzer Re: L-jetronic Re: LAMBDA SENSOR Re: Equations.. Re: Encoder [none] RE: Encoder See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandy Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:33:19 -0500 Subject: Re: MC3334 question I called newark, and they are in stock, so they said. At 07:42 AM 3/6/96 GMT, you wrote: >could it be, Tim used circuit resistances instead of an actual resistor? >I did some coil testing 2 weeks ago in which I scoped the voltage drop >across a clip lead leading to the driver ground. > >> You could consider paralleling several smaller resistors to get the >>required value. Let's see, this resistor would dissipate about 2.5 W @ >>6 A (I^2*R). You could parallel 4 X .1 ohm, 1W resistors (or 10 X .27 ohm >>.5W) to give .025 ohm @xxx. > >If you have good dwell control, the only time you'll approach these dissipation >figures is at very high rpm when the duty cycle is highest. > >one last thing. does anyone know where to get the MC3334 (I could use 10-12) > >Fred > > ------------------------------ From: Bruce Bowling Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 13:47:16 EST Subject: Re: Equations.. ~ Substitue "R=287 J/(kg*K)" instead of "R=287 kJ/(kg*K)" and the units ~ will work out in the formula as originally posted. Gee, you guys are ~ sharp! ~ ~ Isn't it great??? This list is much more productive than a room full of engineers, and more fun. Who knows, one day there may be a official DIY_EFI conference (face-to-face)! - - Bruce ------------------------------ From: MSargent@xxx. Sargent) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:39:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Engine Analyzer (Sorry about sending that twice. I thought I had cancelled it the first time.) Anyways... I was talking to Performance Trends, and Engine Analyzer is now up to v2.5 (and now sells for about $100US at Summit). The fellow I was talking to listed off a long list of changes, so I'll be updating my copy ASAP. Mike +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael F. Sargent | Net: msargent@xxx.com | Phone: 1(613)721-0902 | | Gallium Software Inc.| | FAX: 1(613)721-1278 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: WERNER_HAUSSMANN@xxx.com Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 14:08:22 -0700 Subject: Re: L-jetronic Hi James I am still not receiving any DIY_EFI messages except a few addressed to me. So if you see a reply to my request let me know. Thanks The ISBN numbers The Probst book 0-8376-0300-5 The bosch L-Jetronic pamphlet, only L-Jetronic, similar to a chapter in above book 1-85-226008-4 Your analog meter is fine. I do not recommend the use of the oxygen sensor with an intake manifold designed for a carburetter. Most likely it will not be able to run lean at low rpm. The oxygen sensor will run the car too lean at idle. CO meters are available from Moss Motors, JC whitney. expect to pay about $150 Nothin for EFI is cheap!!!! A fuel pressure gauge is a must. The range will depend on the type of system that you will be using. If you can get an oscilloscope, that is helpful once the car is running but not essential. Werner ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: L-jetronic Author: Non-HP-james (james@xxx.ca) at HP-ColSprings,mimegw2 Date: 3/5/96 6:19 PM Thanks Werner and welcome to the list !! I usually reply direct instead of to the list (saves time sifting throught the list looking for people who have replied to you). Wow, I'm impressed with your conversion, how did you know it would work??? Similar engine size? I've got the Jeff Hartman book, I agree it's fantastic. I'd be really interested in hearing the story behind this job, your troubles and triumphs etc. I'd like to do something like this some day so I'm trying to learn from other peoples experiences. What equipment do you have for EFI that you can't live without?? I'm looking at fuel pressure guages and am having trouble deciding which one to get. Any advice??? One more thing, can you get me the ISBN number for the Bosch FI book?? Is this the one by Adler ?? Sounds like a good read. thanks again james ------------------------------ From: WERNER_HAUSSMANN@xxx.com Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 15:37:14 -0700 Subject: Re: Hi James You are, of course, correct. I was thinking about a throttle body. I don't recommend a running a O2 sensor with a throttle body unless the manifold is heated, or is designed for FI. Also it's worth considering if the engine is meant to run at stoichiometric. I prefer to run it at the mixture that was intended for the engine. Besides running a little rich gives a little more power and runs cooler. The problem is fuel condensing out in the manifold and thus changing the mixture (with a throttle body). And more - some of the '70's cars require a rich mixture for the smog stuff to work correctly. Not all Catalytic converters are '3 -way catalytic converters. Some are not even Catalytic (MGB) I've been told. These actually act like an afterburner, and need some fuel (rich) to keep things hot. I suspect the A/F meter you are mentioning for $30 are devices hooked up to the O2 sensor. Anything hooked to a normal O2 sensor can only measure the mixture around stoichiometric. It can't measure mixtures that are rich like you get with cars designed for carburettors or when you tune for max power. The CO meter I mentioned is something you stick up the tail pipe. Not as good as the ones at emission testing stations, but a lot cheaper. Ideally you want to measure the Air, Fuel ratio. none measure that directly. If you measure the Oxygen (Oxygen sensor) or the Carbon Monoxide CO meter (that measures exhaust density) you can infer the A/F mixture. I think I'm on the DIY EMI list now. I'll see if this message comes back to me. I still haven't had any replies to my original message. Werner Colorado ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Author: Non-HP-james (james@xxx.ca) at HP-ColSprings,mimegw2 Date: 3/7/96 2:30 PM Hello again What's the theory behind why a O2 sensor won't work in a maifold that has been machined to accept injectors just upstream of the intake valve?? Or were you talking about throttle body injection ??? I've seen a couple of conversions (in books) that do this and incorporate an O2 sensor...I never thought of this before...interesting. What about A/F meters...I've seen some people talking about these...they a supposedly only $30.00 Ever used one or know what they are talking about??? I don't know what these measure HC, CO or CO2 ??? Ya I'll keep my eye peeled...I'll check out the DIY EFI home page later today and see if I can find the instructions I used to subscribe. See if they are any different to what you used. Say where are you located ?? I'm in Vancouver B.C. Canada. later and thanks for the ISBN numbers jw ------------------------------ From: yudhiar ariestono Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 20:12:46 +0700 Subject: LAMBDA SENSOR HELLO, DOES ANYBODY CAN HELP ME TO FIND A LAMBDA (OXYGEN) SENSOR SELLER IN SINGAPORE. THANKYOU. ------------------------------ From: jengel@xxx.NET Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:13:35 +600 Subject: Re: Equations.. > From: Bruce Bowling > Isn't it great??? This list is much more productive than a room > full of engineers, and more fun. Who knows, one day there may be a > official DIY_EFI conference (face-to-face)! > > - Bruce > Great idea! Which continent? ;) je ------------------------------ From: dn Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 21:53:26 MDT Subject: Re: Encoder Jim: > Why is the wheel going to be a bear. Spot size will allow me to use .2mm > marks, the focal points a bit out there but I'll recess the sensor. This kind of accuracy requires photo reduction techniques, ya can't just bang one out on your dot matrix... Not cheep and not quick... You'd be much better off just buying an encoder. Newark has 100 ppr units that look like a pot for around $35, rated for 10,000,000 revolutions. > But what is the output voltage? And the transition time? No idea. The only app circuit I have for this is pretty easy, though. First, supply the LED (pin 6) via about a 120 ohm resistor to 5v, this will give you around 30 mA LED current. (pin 4 is LED ground) The detector circuit is dead simple. Tie the photodiode cathode (pin 3) to +5v. Put in a 100k resistor from pin 1 to +5v, this is RL. Put a 10 Meg feedback resistor from pin 1 to pin 2. Tie pin 8 to ground. That's all there is to it. Oh yeah, output voltage is also taken from pin 1. I have no idea what the output voltage from this circuit is, just breadboard it up and find out. You may need an extra stage of amplification and a schmitt trigger to clean it up for your counter logic. If you need more info than that, you'll have to contact HP and get some app notes, I haven't used the thing before, either... regards dn - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@xxx.ca Datalog Technology Inc. Bang: calgary!debug!dlogtech!darrell Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: +1 (403) 243-2220 Fax: +1 (403) 243-2872 @ + < __/ "Absolutum Obsoletum" - If it works, it's obsolete -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: MTaylorfi@xxx.com Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:35:03 -0500 Subject: [none] pplies to a static situation. Again rather boring for an engine... See ya, Mike ------------------------------ From: Andrew Dalgleish Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 20:06:00 S Subject: RE: Encoder On Thursday, 7 March 1996 21:53, owner-diy_efi-outgoing wrote: > > Jim: > > > Why is the wheel going to be a bear. Spot size will allow me to use .2mm > > marks, the focal points a bit out there but I'll recess the sensor. > > This kind of accuracy requires photo reduction techniques, ya can't just bang > one out on your dot matrix... Not cheep and not quick... Photo reduction isn't that expensive. I've done it by taking a shot with a 120 camera and using the negative. Most wedding photographers could do it for you, probably for a few beers. I've also seen a sticky metalic (so it doesn't stretch) tape with light/dark bands on it. You just wrap this around a shaft a few times until the stripes line up. > You'd be much > better off just buying an encoder. Newark has 100 ppr units that look like > a pot for around $35, rated for 10,000,000 revolutions. That's less than 28 hours at 6000 rpm. Are you sure there isn't another 1000 in there? > > > But what is the output voltage? And the transition time? > > No idea. The only app circuit I have for this is pretty easy, though. > First, supply the LED (pin 6) via about a 120 ohm resistor to 5v, this will > give you around 30 mA LED current. (pin 4 is LED ground) > > The detector circuit is dead simple. Tie the photodiode cathode (pin 3) to > +5v. Put in a 100k resistor from pin 1 to +5v, this is RL. Put a 10 Meg > feedback resistor from pin 1 to pin 2. Tie pin 8 to ground. That's all > there is to it. Oh yeah, output voltage is also taken from pin 1. I have > no idea what the output voltage from this circuit is, just breadboard it up > and find out. You may need an extra stage of amplification and a schmitt > trigger to clean it up for your counter logic. > > If you need more info than that, you'll have to contact HP and get some > app notes, I haven't used the thing before, either... > Sounds a *lot* better than using separate led/phototransistor. > regards > dn > > > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@xxx.ca > Datalog Technology Inc. Bang: calgary!debug!dlogtech!darrell > Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: +1 (403) 243-2220 > Fax: +1 (403) 243-2872 > @ + > < > __/ "Absolutum Obsoletum" - If it works, it's obsolete > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Regards, Andrew Dalgleish Senior Software Engineer Axon Research, Pty Ltd 6 Wallace Ave, Toorak, VIC 3142 AUSTRALIA Tel +61-3-9826-5538 Fax +61-3-9824-0083 ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #70 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".