DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 29 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 091 In this issue: Re: Pneumatic Valve Springs ! Returned mail: User unknown Pneumatic Valve Springs ! Re: Off topic, but related subject matter... Re: Multispark stuff and other thoughts Re: VW Bosch injection Re[2]: injector pulse width RE: Off topic, but related subject matter... I know I know!!! RE: Off topic, but related subject matter... RE: Multispark stuff and other thoughts Re: injector pulse width attachment questions Re: EFI for Bosch mech. injection RE: Independent cylinder knock control See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Boxsell Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 09:14:17 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: Pneumatic Valve Springs ! At 11:56 AM 28/03/96 -0500, you wrote: >All modern F1 engines use pneumatic valve actuators. > > --- R. Andrew Broadhurst They use "air bags" instead of mechical valve springs. The pneumatics DO NOT ACTUATE THE VALVES. This is a very common misconception as demonstrated in this list !!!! regards, Mark Boxsell MRB Design. ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 17:13:51 -0600 Subject: Returned mail: User unknown > > >At 09:52 PM 3/26/96 GMt, I wrote: >>> If you send me a postage paid self addressed box, I will send you a >couple of the >>> caddy injectors. I think you would give them a good home. >> >At 09:52 PM 3/26/96 GMT, Jim Staff wrote: >>I'm wondering if I could get in on the same deal, Also it's tax deductable I'm >>connected to a school to! All I need is your address, and I'll have school >send >>you a prepaid padded envelope (Better than a box). >> >>What is the PSI preference and the flow rate of these injectors? >> >> Thanks, >> Jim Staff >>___________________________________________________________________________ >____________ >>My address and Phone number are as follows: > >George M. Dailey >507 california Street >Greenville, Mississippi 38701 >601-332-3634 > >The injectors are (two types) DK 181247 and 1181281. the latter is stamped >Bendix but they all look identical. All of the injectors came off of a '76 & >'78 Caddy with, I think, a 350cid engine. BTW, for those DIY_FIers who were >discussing exotic triggering methods for FI systems, this system used two >reed switches at the base of the distributer and a revolving magnet! I think >the injectors operate at 32psi and flow 21lbs/hr (don't quote me on this) >Ahhh... "tax deductable" two words that go great together. Make sure those >school administrators include the proper (blank) tax documentation in the >padded envelope and I'll throw in a map sensor or two! > >GMD > > ------------------------------ From: prasad@xxx.com (Krishna Prasad) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 17:03:24 -0800 Subject: Pneumatic Valve Springs ! >They use "air bags" instead of mechical valve springs. The pneumatics DO NOT >ACTUATE THE VALVES. How do the valves open and close ? Can anyone explain how the Pneumatic Valves work. It can be addressed just to prasad@xxx. Thanks Krishna ------------------------------ From: William Sarkozy Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 19:43:43 -0800 Subject: Re: Off topic, but related subject matter... At 06:43 PM 3/27/96 -0800, you wrote: > First off, introductions. My name is Terry Faugno. I work in San >Diego, California at a company called Qualcomm Inc. We researched, >developed, and are now marketing digital cellular telephony equipment. My >interest in DIY EFI is based on a passion for performance, and a love of >tinkering. > My ultimate goal is to find a Porsche 911/912 or 944 or a 924, >install either a Buick 231 V6 or a small block Chevy engine, and fabricate a >SMPI fuel delivery system, super or turbocharger, and, as you'll read below, >a constantly variable valvetrain system. My desire is to see how much >horsepower can be derived from a smallish engine (300 CID maximum), without >sacrificing engine longevity. I selected the Porsche body(ies) as it has an >inbuilt capability for high performance, and they're quite stylish to boot. > > Now the off-topic, but related post mentioned in the subject header: > > I've heard rumours that a company somewhere had developed a system >that replaces camshafts with computer controlled solenoids to actuate the >valve train. Has anyone here heard the same, or know a logical point to >start searching from? From a performance standpoint, one could program a >limitless variety of "virtual camshaft" profiles, like Honda's VTEC, or any >of the available variable valve timing schemes. Only more so, as one is not >limited to 2 profiles. > That's the gist of my question. Thank you in advance for any >information that any of the subscribers to this list might provide. > > Thanx, > Terry > > > Check out the lates issue of TURBO & HI-TECH PERFORMANCE magazine. They ran an article about an organization which builds Porsche/Chevrolet hybrids. They're smog legal as well. ------------------------------ From: Johnny Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 16:51:05 -0800 Subject: Re: Multispark stuff and other thoughts gtk110@xxx.edu wrote: > > > As far as the short leads > >to the plug goes, the coolest by far is to have the coil mount/attach > >directly to the end of the plug... no wire as such. > > Yes, good idea, but would'nt the coil then gain an excess of heat that it > really do better without? Unless you're talking about the epoxyed style > type similar to the ones Ford uses....but wouldn't heat also affect these too? Well, this is the 90's after all. I would think that heat could be engineered around. If I recall correctly (which rarely happens anymore) the first engines to use the integral coil were air cooled. Talk about heat. - -j- ------------------------------ From: lambs@xxx.au (Stephen Lamb) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 12:12:58 +1100 Subject: Re: VW Bosch injection >>That is not true. Early VW fuel inj was "D" Jetronic which was speed >>density. Was installed first if I remember correct on mid 60's VW >>hatchback aircooled engines. > >>Frank > >Frank Parker may be right about the earliert "D" Jetronic '60 VW air cooled >engine... I honestly haven't worked on one, and have never seen one. Most of >my experience in VW's is limited to Beetles and Buses. It sure sounds >interesting, though! The earliest VW with EFI *I* have seen is a '76 Super >Beetle with CIS. I'm sure that the bus engine in question would be CIS, >however, since it was also a late 70's model. Perhaps I'm getting my acronyms confused here, but isn't CIS really just a sort of 'sophisticated' mechanical injection system ?? - ie not 'electronic' (EFI) at all ?? (I'm new to this group, so forgive my ignorance). My understanding is that D-Jetronic was the first true production EFI system and was used over here in such cars as the Volvo 164E. It differed from the later L-Jetronic system in a number of significant ways: 1. A 'MAP' sensor was used to determine engine load. 2. A separate pair of mechanical 'points' installed in the distributor were used to trigger the injectors 3. The injectors were fired in groups. In the case of the 6 cylinder 164E this was in two groups of 3. 4. The TPS was designed to sense throttle 'rate' as well as idle and WOT. 5. The injectors delivered the full amount required by each cylinder in one 'hit' as opposed the the L-Jetronic system where the amount is delivered in two 'lots'. This also meant that the injectors for the D-Jetronic system were designed for a higher flow rate. I know a bit about the D-Jetronic system as a couple of years ago I adapted it to run on a Nissan Skyline (2.8L, 6-cylinder). It didn't work very well, but I didn't have the time to sort out the bugs and it got shelved. Stephen Lamb Dept. of Defence DSTO, AMRL 506 Lorimer Street Fishermans Bend VIC 3207 Australia Tel: +61 3 9626 7525 Fax: +61 3 9626 7089 IZCC #180 ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.au Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 09:41:47 Subject: Re[2]: injector pulse width >Per Frank "Choco" Munday's book, TPFI, he states that 305/350 injectors >will work reasonably well if exchanged as a complete set. This refers to >the MAF type TPI systems up to '89, and exclude your '85 baby (even though >it's MAF equiped). His book only covers the '86-'89 models, but I think the >injector swaping rule will apply to your system also since it's a MAF type. >Choco goes on to say that he can not tell the difference below 4,500rpm. >Thats big in small and small in big. > >There are differences in the operating pressures. Per chilton, 44psi for >5.0 & 37psi for 5.7 >22lbs/hr flow rate for the 350 per Ben Watsons chevy fuel injection book (no >305 data). >BTW guys, The '89 TPI in my '58 is running great! All bugs have been worked >out and I've clocked over 600 trouble free city miles already. The R700 is >comming soon. >Dan, if you can give the symtoms, I sure one of us gurus could help. >Good luck >GMD Thanx for the info. The system is infact of a TPI of a 305 '85 F-body according to the fuel rail number. However the system is now MAP sensing. Can anyone confirm that what I have done seem right. I have the ECU water temp sensor mounted in one of the three holes in the front of the manifold, the air temp sensor is mounted in the hole on the underside at the back of the plenumb chamber, and the MAP ensor vacuum line is taken of the back corner of the plenumb chamber. The cam is: inlet - open 23 deg, close 61 deg (I think) exhaust - open 68 deg, close 26 deg (I think) The engine only seem to run evenly at a stoic of 11.5, CO=5%-7% (very rich) at idle. When you try and improve on this and actually load up the engine, the engine starts to jerk around quite violently and only seem to settle down slightly in the low rpm range when you give it lots of fuel. Is it possible to calculate a theoretical fuel map for my computer, either a VE value or an inject time pulse width for the rpm range that we can follow ? If this is possible can someone please send me the formulas ? By the way, I'm using the old type HEI dizzy, and when we checked the ignition, it looked like one bank of the engine had a problem (the pulses were not all level, but went up and down and up and down) but I have been told that the wrong air/fuel ratio can cause this. Anyone have any ideas ? Is it a timing problem ? Is it a fuel problem ? Much help needed here Dan dzorde@xxx.au ------------------------------ From: Jim Pearl Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 21:10:53 -0600 Subject: RE: Off topic, but related subject matter... I know I know!!! Electromotive is the company that's currently working this!!! They're local and in one of their latest catalogs I spotted this system being tested on a VW motor. It's also been written up in Turbo magazine. It uses one of their FI boxes to run it, pretty neat! - ---------- >From: Stephen Lamb[SMTP:lambs@xxx.au] Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 1996 11:09 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Cc: Terry Faugno Subject: Re: Off topic, but related subject matter... > I've heard rumours that a company somewhere had developed a system >that replaces camshafts with computer controlled solenoids to actuate the >valve train. Has anyone here heard the same, or know a logical point to >start searching from? From a performance standpoint, one could program a >limitless variety of "virtual camshaft" profiles, like Honda's VTEC, or any >of the available variable valve timing schemes. Only more so, as one is not >limited to 2 profiles. I think it was Renault (?) that developed a pneumatically operated valve system for their F1 engines some years back. Don't know much about it or how successful it was. Cheers Stephen Lamb Dept. of Defence DSTO, AMRL 506 Lorimer Street Fishermans Bend VIC 3207 Australia Tel: +61 3 9626 7525 Fax: +61 3 9626 7089 IZCC #180 begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C<#`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F`!X,`0````4```!33510```` M`!X`'PP!````# ```$I64$!14TDN0T]-``,`!A#H"!-;`P`'$ 8$```>``@0 M`0```&4```!%3$5#5%)/34]4259%25-42$5#3TU004Y95$A!5%-#55)214Y4 M3%E73U)+24Y'5$A)4U1(15E214Q/0T%,04Y$24Y/3D5/1E1(14E23$%415-4 M0T%404Q/1U-)4U!/5%1%1%1(``````(!"1 !````)P4``",%``!C" ``3%I& M=;6&6W[_``H!#P(5`J@%ZP*#`% "\@D"`&-H"L!S970R-P8`!L,"@S(#Q0(` M<')"<1'B?,C4U`H '"H$- ML0M@;F@xxx.@`B#I'4!O9AV":07 "V 3T$\3P!W 'G '0&]G M!"!)^"!S@xxx.@=7 A@N 9=\F@B@` M$; $("&[1B. !N#&> >1)E @P["P@$U 1P'0>,"' 'G &(0J%"HML M:3$X,,$"T6DM,30T#? ,T/,NHPM9,38*H -@$] PPP,$9& M?0-A.C'.,$8,@xxx.@M@!M!S0$B 3U1"3$LN M9!/ +F\W8 W "?!C*4!G;^!V+F%U73%O,GT&8#<",#.O-+M7"8 AP'-D-&%Y M*^!-"L 1<" R0C M,$8X@xxx.=6)JIQRA1S\TNU)E3$!/#="1*T%P:6,KX&)U!4#W%Z B M@B%@ D= J%/K]5 MLQ>@"U$X$!ZA-A!S$8#_`8 $( /P'9 =PT\@!) =P7L", -@;!R03[$&\ GP M;\YI-W K0@#0='4BD1V"?5BF=@= '3$

P/QR0!!%>, B!+$$A\2)V[R)072$#(%H&(F<"+G!H<>LKX"X`:QU M2 (@xxx.,>$5BF(?3_(3!>, ,0`: 4S]H,1^Q!/ = MH >!)H!/;O\?,01@(+$G$"O@7Q$ALAUA_4FP=&>K(_(G(!'@:J90W?,C@!_A M;FLKL1]07Q%.((IN.(!L!4 H/RE5I/U7BG AP%5 'G!ATA\Q5]'_7J CXEXS M"H4D=64A*E8<8,]#\2DA)%%6L2!Y5.$$($IB`-!K)H @1 (@)_,%0&$S;74] ML0&@xxx.0=350W4,=H 20KG-0[#6*"H5$ M-:!T)H"/(?#?C?(!35$\KX)!!35),"H4U,#Y0ODP%L =Q@A()T7'V1@0` M=U;Q`X$$($()\"%@)?!)ZD-3\#,!T#<4L"F@7I&7+@!GEDD0;$Q *S8<8)0S M(#Y ,CY0-S49T(F&IF%XB?PP.#ES[?1:0XA (RXA4.R.GU&/+U*?,((*A1;! M`),@``,`$! ``````P`1$ ````! `` 5`#T``0````4```!213H@`````!06 ` end ------------------------------ From: Jim Pearl Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 21:17:33 -0600 Subject: RE: Off topic, but related subject matter... In case you're interested - there's a company written up in Turbo magazine this month that's doing V8 conversions for the 911 bodystyle. It uses a remote mounted water pump and some strange accessory routing but overall it looks great! Let me know if you'd like more details, I might even be able to find the Electromotive info but you'd be better off calling or writing them, I'll look for the number - I've seen it posted recently I think... - ---------- >From: Terry Faugno[SMTP:tfaugno@xxx.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 1996 12:43 PM To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu Subject: Off topic, but related subject matter... First off, introductions. My name is Terry Faugno. I work in San Diego, California at a company called Qualcomm Inc. We researched, developed, and are now marketing digital cellular telephony equipment. My interest in DIY EFI is based on a passion for performance, and a love of tinkering. My ultimate goal is to find a Porsche 911/912 or 944 or a 924, install either a Buick 231 V6 or a small block Chevy engine, and fabricate a SMPI fuel delivery system, super or turbocharger, and, as you'll read below, a constantly variable valvetrain system. My desire is to see how much horsepower can be derived from a smallish engine (300 CID maximum), without sacrificing engine longevity. I selected the Porsche body(ies) as it has an inbuilt capability for high performance, and they're quite stylish to boot. Now the off-topic, but related post mentioned in the subject header: I've heard rumours that a company somewhere had developed a system that replaces camshafts with computer controlled solenoids to actuate the valve train. Has anyone here heard the same, or know a logical point to start searching from? From a performance standpoint, one could program a limitless variety of "virtual camshaft" profiles, like Honda's VTEC, or any of the available variable valve timing schemes. Only more so, as one is not limited to 2 profiles. That's the gist of my question. Thank you in advance for any information that any of the subscribers to this list might provide. Thanx, Terry begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(B,#`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F`' ``0```"T```!2 M13H@3V9F('1O<&EC+"!B=70@18)P`!X,`0`` M``4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````# ```$I64$!14TDN0T]-``,`!A!S!,NG M`P`'$+D&```>``@xxx.5$5215-4140M5$A% M4D5304-/35!!3EE74DE45$5.55!)3E154D)/34%'05I)3D542$E334].5$A4 M2$%44T1/24Y'5CA#3TY615)324].4T9/4E1(13DQ``````(!"1 !````0 <` M`#P'``#@"P``3%I&=3'2?=__``H!#P(5`J@%ZP*#`% "\@D"`&-H"L!S970R M-P8`!L,"@S(#Q0(`<')"<1'B?,C4U`H '"H$-L0M@;F0A@ M)ST7H" +@!/0%Z 3P60@4"T@=&@=H2<$(&&''* #< JP;GD@=P40(P) "? @ M=7 =82!4BPAP!N @`,!G87H+@%\T6YV!) `D (@!"#'`A %P!Y!(#DQ'& &X,)D$[%Y;&4N'' %0'YU$; > MHA>@xxx. ` MT&,'D">0;R,1!T #(!^ (!`&QI:R8"'4$-L &0&0,0&YK+C@`"H4*BRR0,00X M, +1:2TQ-#3/#? ,T#H3"UDQ-@J@`V#_$] P`!X0/#<*ASKK## [MOI&`V$Z M/3X[M@R"(# $D"$HT49A=6U4;T6O0"M$24!97T5&24 %H'6+%S &T"X)\&P"(` M'KDR@AWQ]E%"I1QQ8R3P1X EH1&P>TA""8 L"H4-L",0%S!P_V)Q)T,*P#41 M*]$`P%V $<#](G)D+? ?@ = '*!5$ I QPM@(\%5$&5P: (@'T#^94*0!2 ' M@ (P6Y(*A1UVWR "3:$OP$WP7")B',$>`'\"(!ZQ"K $$"-1(Y-C<'+_(Z$# M@xxx.L0J%689;L4Y _RDP5@$P#DR-&*6=PN 3S$J$64?@!Y1'K%" MI6;P8S20,C,<8%9)`%UQXW,`P"H1`F!O="%#?1Y0=F:Q&J @xxx.D0B!BMP40 M'+ E\6$*A4' 4"W ?F8*4 ,@xxx.S+:!5@&KQ,O)T(%(1 =P)Q IWRV@`_ >0"D1"H5S`- & M@5]4@")RA*47,"@A=A^ >7]=(A&P+^(=\2/B<'8D8BCY")!S*7MR*D$1@!ZA M7@:_"X I@ ,0!4 ,GD=,O]FX27Q)**$8B\1 M!N EX%:-W5F&3BO1(^(R02U47QX`_S:2*W$","-1'?$@$2/B58;W'E!\0 20 M.I#_680UPY8A_PL@xxx.(3LSB67YDS M%Z +42B!'*%MA'!A_P& !""&0A[3*2""@@(A`V#/8),GD"30*\!I9&^S`-#_ M>E!O$AY!"H5^HQXP?P(D\/Y(BX,=`"$!FG288Y5C6_'_+: %L2NS; )E0#*! M-H$=KP2V@ M+)-(`B!'X!Z15OA414.D4Q\A"H6LD2/B_F%^$ ,0?E5^.FSQ+> B@>=PH@>! M)/!/;C=A+.,GD/][8Z+B(5$KP(:FJW.)@B" ]Q'@K?9MGE0A]"/B94!:0_\@ MD!] 0I =P2-1)/"X`3?@_QSR( )\0'X0J-(CHJ_X,++_:T%;0IDE'S&PE56! M!/(U8?]OLR$SA%$K82WS.[&(H VPYY#OP5^WMFYX8I;#C[>'_T$";:U6G%:? M5Z]8O J%%L$"`,KP`P`0$ `````#`!$0`````$ `!S `WR\('AV[`4 `"# ` =WR\('AV[`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B `````6=H` ` end ------------------------------ From: Jim Pearl Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 21:21:40 -0600 Subject: RE: Multispark stuff and other thoughts My biggest interest would be to find a system that would allow me to fire my EFI HO Ford motor on a waste spark system. I've been told by a guy here that he's done this using some weird rotor out of another Ford application that would fire the opposing cylinders. Since this guy is 90% B.S. I've never been sure he was right and frankly I'd think the spark would take the least resistive path anyway... Any ideas? I'm using an Accell 300+ system now after my MSD died (5 years old). So far I've not gotten it out on a dry road while running right (plug problem) but I can tell you it ran poorly without the MSD - it was very noticeable. Couldn't even spin the tires in second from a roll much less third. Power was way down... I think the Accell has restored the power and it's tiny - very nice! - ---------- >From: Clinton L. Corbin : Backgrind/Gold : Pager 0544[SMTP:CCORBIN@xxx.com] Sent: Thursday, March 28, 1996 4:31 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Multispark stuff and other thoughts Folks, Just thinking. The MSD units go to single spark at around 3k, right? If I am not mistaken, all of these units only use one coil to fire up to eight cylinders. Therefore, the COIL is still firing four times per revolution anyway. Almost all of the ignition systems proposed to date only fire at the most once per rev (wasted spark systems). Some even want to use one coil per cylinder! It would appear that we should be able to implement a multispark system that goes to much higher revs than the MSD unit. How many sparks per event would depend upon the coil charge and discharge time, but we all want to charge with real high currents anyway.... Just some thoughts on the subject. As an aside to this, there has been a lot of bandwidth spent on the subject of one coil per cylinder. To tell you the truth, I do not see any advantage of one coil per cylinder over one coil per two cylinders. The exception being extremly high RPM (10000+) motors. The proposals to date have all involved much extra hardware and software complexity to impliment. What justifies this? (Don't take that wrong. I do not see how it is justified and I was wondering how the folks who are for it see things) I must give it one thing: It looks really sharp! Not to mention you can put the coil almost right on the plug to minimise RF emisions and power lose to the plug. But anyway, were's the beef? Clint ccorbin@xxx.com begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(BH#`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F';L!'@!P``$````H````4D4Z($UU M;'1I)S=&5M`H,SMP+D!Q,"@S02S!3%?0J BPC/"=D[%Y\R-34"@ <*@0VQ M"V!N9S$P,V\44 L*%6(,`6,`0 70>> @8FEG9P>0!4 +@)<3T!>@'0%W"&!L M9!R@P&4@=&\@9@N '@#X82!S$[,>0!& ':8'0'\7, ?@!X >1!>@(& 4 7 `B >P7=A%Q/!'N *L6L>Y2X@2?PG=AXP'B ) M\!Y!'?(T&=U')!H'6$?5"6 .B<$(&0"("6R! `@=9\`D!J@'N #``-@(C-U!4!O9A[ 3FXB("6!(;1A< M0:?IC'X!I(G$?:2#3*2$B M8.4IT&\G(V-Y*? >H 20ZG,CX%,+@xxx.3 E($(N4R/E[R:0)" % MP"13>3/0$: B8!WP*2SA'F%_"L$NM"(@)3 B(!/0`Z!I9RBA*)(B@F1R M') #8&&='@!W)M SP"@0=6X#`&LG03!T* M0=2=0$U!O^P)@$^ I'* HD2%P M*A D@xxx.3(M/!+_,#(O(1R0*0$J M`#/0/T$CX',(41WP;B<%0"\1+Y%P_PN *W,J,!UQ'2$>X 61,.//`W >P0-@ M-W%M=1%P,['O!!$FP0L@(^!0($ I03 R\S5!)F%W;C5R(7 QV#0M9,38*H"@A!9 %0"U?4C<*AU#K##!1MD8#83I_4SY1M@R" M1$ L<1Y0`Z!,740RD2]')+)5$%!A$QS@!< P-5 @ M6U--`%10.D-#3U)""$E.0%J05$5,-Y(N'3)L+@6@;5U2WY]3[09@`C!5'U8K M5&@xxx.&!P,3DY-B T9#HS'&!!35O?4^U43F]>'U8K M.7!Y7PW :4Y !: =X -P8BX)\&?D+F\FT&\M$\ ?@xxx.YU8FI1 M\3MD'U8K31W@*C C)71UWPW0,,,I%$'2,)%S3C]/0WPS-E"W%%$+\E17!O!K M]',L;IQ*)Q!"$C'Q)S'_(^!?X4)4/> \("V1'F >47\G(CVA(R0?@0K "& > MH3/>:V!P,',V0$Z622C0(7"V83A"!4!M-%$S06Y@"<"E!^PJ%%Z!V!O HD"I"-15SL+Q!; 1@'0%Y M&!T@9W1A_RI"'O2 D0-@*^%+PAY@8$#_$] *A7I#(-,?@2N"@L,"('\M,8"R M@xxx.(*A2+ `C >0M=ZFX"R+%8A<[!)'Y^ J4_]Z]0J%$7(< MX###.7 $\)F$_X!28' _HHZ1>1*+!IEU0;+_-!$'0)-#F/<(@`C $(/\U M%W.ADA[ `) -L!Y"_R;"?E,OTC!!)%,>T!

("L1ZA_R%P2/-&@09Q)T&_8BN"`A#_<;$]81Y@N")^ M$3P2JT@xxx.P K M<(T13CN!DM+?7>$J00J%0)) `G!"!7L3_P= @xxx.2T@N !W#S! `> M,%)&1-!X<2I!GI+^9 J%3#07,'FQHS/+U'.A_D(HD3448'!(L28R*X(D47QF M/VZ<5O.9!@6A5]% _ULS6QENG&Z?;Z]PO J%%L$"`-E@``,`$! ``````P`1 M$ ````! ```#T``0````4```!213H@ &`````%+\ ` end ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 20:30:22 -0600 Subject: Re: injector pulse width Martin, I brought this book from Clasic MotorBooks 1-800-826-6600. The book is titled "Small Block Chevrolet Tuned Port Fuel Injection" Published by Graffiti, and part of (I guess) there "Hot Rodder's Handbook" series Copyright 1995 in Australia. It's the most consise book I've read, on exactly what it takes to make these systems work in other vehicles. Very good. It's full of little tidbits like what gear you need to run the big HEI distributer on an '89 TPI with a roller cam. ISBN 0 949398 01 2 The "build from scratch" project is temporarly stalled. Two reasons, TPI in the truck new lover in my life. I have big plans for the project and I will keep fellow hackers informed. GMD - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------- At 08:03 AM 3/28/96 -0800, you wrote: > > >On Wed, 27 Mar 1996, George M. Dailey wrote: >> >> Per Frank "Choco" Munday's book, TPFI, he states that 305/350 injectors will >> work reasonably well if exchanged as a complete set. This refers to the MAF > >George- > >Can you tell me a little more about this book? I didn't see it on the >DIY_EFI reading list. > >"uudecode" is a program to decode certain Mac(?) files. You can get a >decoding program by ftp from oak.oakland.edu, or from other ftp sites. >Some versions of Winzip also will decode uuencoded files. > >How goes the "build from scratch" project? > >Martin Scarr > > ------------------------------ From: Frank_Mallory@xxx.com (Frank Mallory) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 19:34:40 -0500 Subject: attachment questions d> Thanks Will, I got your attached file in the following format. d>---------------------------------------------------------------------- d>------ d>------------ d>The following is an attached File item from cc:Mail. It contains d>eight bit information which had to be encoded to insure successful d>trans- d>mission through various mail systems. To decode the file use the d>UUDECODE d>program. d>--------------------------------- Cut Here d>--------------------------------- d>begin 644 serset.exe d>M35IP 0X 7 9 "8$)J3$ 0! !%!P ' +, #( S0 -( #D d>M Z0 .X 0 !0$ H! = 0 (@$ " 0 @xxx.T! / @ *P( #4" !- @ 5P( d>M )@xxx.<" #L @ , , $4# !* P d>Blah blah blah.... d>What or where can I find UUDECODE? I take it, you are using cc-Mail? d>Is the attached file an executable file? There's a PD program UUEXE... floating around; I have it on this BBS, if you would care to go to the trouble of downloading it or obtaining it via Fidonet file request. But I'me sure you can find it on any of the large FTP servers. I've gone to the trouble of applying UUDECODE or MIME to some of these messages and found that what you get out of it is a message in WordPerfect or some other word processor format. So unless you have the appropriate word processor, you can't read it even after going to the trouble of decoding it. For the life of Ime, I can't figure out why they don't simply output their message in ASCII and save everybody the trouble. ------------------------------ From: Frank_Mallory@xxx.com (Frank Mallory) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 19:43:46 -0500 Subject: Re: EFI for Bosch mech. injection d> * From: ricrain@xxx.net (Ric Rainbolt) >Does anybody have any info on adapting the late-'60s Bosch mechanical >injection >to EFI? I understand it has been done in Germany. > d>I understand that the later Bosch mechanical systems had closed loop d>operation utilizing an O2 sensor and a "fuel frequency" valve. This d>valves d>duty cycle was varied by an analog circuit to achieve the desired d>level of d>enrichment. At some throttle level, the closed loop is defeated and d>the d>system returns to the preset levels prescibed by the air mass plate. I think maybe you have the later Bosch CIS system in mind. Bosch started off with a mechanical gas FI in 1954 (used on the Mercedes 300SL); then they went to the D-Jetronic system with "brain box" in 1971; then to the mechanical CIS system; finally to CIS with closed-loop control. There is no air mass plate on the early mechanical systems. When applying closed-loop control to the earlier mechanical systems, I believe that control is effectuated via the barometric compensator, which can be used to vary the position of the control rack in the pump and thus vary the amount injected. ------------------------------ From: Jim Pearl Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 21:49:51 -0600 Subject: RE: Independent cylinder knock control I've heard of the J&S system - it sounded great and if not for my DFI.... Currently I use a GM sensor hooked into my DFI. I was told to mount it on the HEAD (!) and am pretty sure I'm getting false knock from the valvetrain. The sensor uses a small box from GM between it and the computer. I've seen monitoring boxes for turbo GNs and would love to adapt one for my system. Anyone have any ideas? I just want to know when it's thinking it sees knock without having to use my laptop. I've done some electronics work but it's been years and most of the little bit of design knowledge I had has drained away.. TIA! - ---------- >From: Frank Parker[SMTP:fparker@xxx.edu] Sent: Thursday, March 28, 1996 9:43 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Independent cylinder knock control On Thu, 28 Mar 1996, Edward Hernandez wrote: > "This is available now in the aftermarket from J&S. I use their box > with Bosch sensor. It can retard each cylinder selectively and you > end up with separate timing curves for ea cylinder. Or it can retard > all the same." > > Can you describe your ignition system? The two extremes I imagine are > 1) single coil distributor system or 2) crank triggered coil per plug. > How does J&S box control each cylinder if it isn't option 2)? > The system is very fast and uses DSP processing. It assumes that if it hears knock that it is from the last cylinder that fired , so it retards that cylinder the next time it fires. It works with the revision software that I have up to 7500 rpm. Last time I talked to designer, I believe he had a version that works up to 10,000 rpm. Mounting of the sensor is critical. There was a SAE paper of a few years ago about the best place to mount, the end result being down low on a rigid rail or boss. I mounted mine near oil pan railing, low and away from any valve train noise. The system has a analog output so you can monitor retard. Ouput of 0-1.25 volts corresponds to 20 deg of retard (max). I built a led monitor using a LM3914 ic to display the output. Also toke retard output and many others like fuel pressure and turbo boost etc and ran to datalogger and took data at 100 times/sec. Output in selective retard is a series of pulses, the amplitude proportional to retard. If I richened up fuel, I could see knock signal drop off, then out as I got a/f ratio correct. The system is super!! Frank Parker 93 Civic EX vtec custom turbo 89 S-10/much mod L-98 V-8 96 Contour SE begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C0#`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F`' ``0```"<```!213H@26YD M97!E;F1E;G0@8WEL:6YD97(@:VYO8VL@8V]N=')O; ```@%Q``$````6```` M`;L=(LB<<'+[;HC<$<^5\D1%4U0`````'@`># $````%````4TU44 `````> M`!\,`0````P```!*5E! 45-)+D-/30`#``80D\NZHP,`!Q"0!P``'@`($ $` M``!E````259%2$5!4D1/1E1(14HF4U-94U1%32U)5%-/54Y$141'4D5!5$%. 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H MY /P'6 (8 5 -%$H0I\C<2'B('$+8 4P;W NA8YD,K(>H > (&5L!9!;*B O M46,$(#%P<"& '+!B)6)W'4 - ML "09P.@-D([L&2_* `AL1& '1 1@ 0@9"HR%1[Q821 >2#Q5$E!CB$*A0J+ M/O Q.# "T>!I+3$T- WP#-!$D_D+63$V"J #8!/0.] >0%]&MPJ'16L,,$8V M1@xxx.K]'OD8V#())00!P*2!0"L !(Q!R6U--5% Z(Q- 2^- =6T\(&@N^0F M=5U'7TAM!F ",$F?ETJK*I (<',R8'DL!= C"L 1<" R.%)0,3F .38@xxx.3HT M,Q2P9DU-OTAM5&]/_TJK9,AI>5\-P&E !: QD$T#<&)-8!J@+F\W0&]V+1/ M'U!E36)3WT[.=9QB:CO!5?]*JU)E7& Z21[1< GP#; E,6-Y?S[P'M$%P"CD M!: ", -@;/-"OT/#,S9%-Q11"_)&-OU@K$\#H%'14E!2T%)B4P/94E!%9"1 M'0%(!)$?@2QE>B0P1D(Z8*P^(/XB*I $`!Y@*W$IT ,0`:#O/S$V4@N '5-A M`8 $D # ?TOQ(!$I4AVA) (AXAUA:<\%P"P29[<%DP`Z =Y#4P*I(L\/DC@&5X*B 3X >1(< ' M<+QA9T&Q'W 7H&>W,29P_P"0&J _,06@`Q%7T!/ >5'O+D %L1WE!;$R)G % M`$N2_7Z19R@`%Z%^!%[ !< +4/9U6/!GMT@V83L`!Y$=HC\L$F U;QT?P1YQ M! !N)^\E<04P>D)_P#]W?BJ3'?3[:'$"'6 ?4834'-)S_PJ%*.2*](42*3@+8#617T?_BO-$8("R M4E >H!YB;K2*U/\*A8Y9:5%[@7,"'+ ><8\R_G-N(SQB/$%M(AUB%Z Y0/\` MD'I2'3 L\'RQD(I XARALW(!(W$W-40P;J!P,['>3(ARDF,AP &0;",2(W'_ M/]0$D%)0(< LT#[PE( -)N H06&:MTQ-,SE$D!Y@ M8_^8TP0`"U$@xxx. (W C$&ZFKZ4]\S2B( #OH$&+YC[PNK%F M"E"!(9,!_R=S+8,PHP;@/D(1P+BP'X+_2X&8TQ]0KU* D2UT(O' ,Y^:M@5 M&L"70))B\7(!O7*9DEA2'1 N M\7\HU J%/_+(44& .G =(69_I),#H#CB)%$AP**0'V$O_[3Q'U!9,+-T.] J M=8>')W!=@xxx.08` M1( P."]M=5*A!&&7H"TY\6405BTXTN930 A0(V'Y><%316"L8*]AOV+/"K(% M%L$`W/ ``P`0$ `````#`!$0`````$ `!S" *L9E(AV[`4 `"#" *L9E(AV[ 7`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B `````%C,` ` end ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #91 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".