DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 5 April 1996 Volume 01 : Number 099 In this issue: Newbie enquiry Re: MAF sensor types (was re: Re: Sensor Questions?) Re: Burnt Miata cat. Re:MAF sensor types (was re: Re: Sensor Questions?) Re: Newbie enquiry Re: ATI Supercharging Re:MAF sensor types (was re: Re: Sensor Questions?) Re: TEC Oxygen Sensors .. another try Re: ATI Supercharging Re: TEC Re: ATI Supercharging Re: ATI Supercharging Re: ATI Supercharging See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Ansell Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 11:53:49 +0100 Subject: Newbie enquiry Hello, First off, let me apologise if this is off-charter, but it seems to me there are loads of experts here that someone may be able to help. I'm in England and run a Vauxhall Cavalier 2.0 litre controlled by a Bosch Motronic v4.0 (according to a third-party workshop manual). The system doesn't have an exhaust sensor or catalytic convertor. I need to find out the interface requirements for the diagnostic connector in the engine bay in order to read the Fault codes and anything else that may be available. I found the list of Motronic fault codes on the Web and spent ages in the car switching the ignition on and pumping the gas pedal, but the Engine Fault lamp wouldn't flash, so I guess it's too new a version (pity). I've read the FAQs, but found nothing specific. My expertise is in microcontroller hardware and software design, so I'd be more than willing to share anything I come up with in exchange for the information. Can anybody provide me with the info or any pointers? Many thanks in advance! - -- John Ansell | Voice: 01442 343183 | "Mother in law" is an Crosfield Electronics | Fax: 01442 343153 | anagram of "Woman Hitler" j2a@xxx.uk | | - Adrian Plass ------------------------------ From: david chambers Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 21:15:45 +1000 Subject: Re: MAF sensor types (was re: Re: Sensor Questions?) Tommy.Palm@xxx.se wrote: > > >Type #4 ??? - Karman Vortex (is this really a MAF?) > > > > > > >Bryan Zublin > >bzublin@xxx.com > > > I made an home made Karman-Vortex after an lesson in aorodynamics, i did not > know that any carmakers had done it before me, so this was a nice surprise to > me. I used ultrasonics to detect the massincrease inside the wirls. In theory > the Karman-Vortex-(its around 100 years old name,as i remember) wirls are > induced linear to MASS-flow in an area of Reinholds number (assume you know > what that is) that covers air density. The interesting part with this was that > i could map the engine at all powers almost perfect w/o even starting it using > only mathematics. Anyone interested?? I can supply formulas and Reinhold > diagrams. I never finshed the job ( lack of reasons) but had a working MAF > ready. > > Tommy Palm > SWEDEN > tommy.palm@xxx.seI would be very interested in any formula's or diagrams that help in mapping airflow mathematicaly David Chambers ------------------------------ From: doug@xxx.com (Doug Gubbins) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:46:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Burnt Miata cat. Joeri, Thanks for the input, I'll check for leaks and try to monitor the O2 sensor. The cat, which had only 33K miles on it (8K with supercharger) was clogged with soot, and the front element was blown into small pieces. Looks like it was too rich. ------------------------------ From: "Ronald R Hoyt" Date: 04 Apr 1996 08:59:02 -0600 Subject: Re:MAF sensor types (was re: Re: Sensor Questions?) ~From: Tommy.Palm@xxx.se ~Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:27:43 -0500 ~ ~ ~I made an home made Karman-Vortex after an lesson in aorodynamics, ~ ~(CUT) ~ ~only mathematics. Anyone interested?? I can supply formulas and Reinhold ~diagrams. I never finshed the job ( lack of reasons) but had a working MAF ~ready. ~ I presume you meant Reynolds when you referred to Reinholds in which case I am very much interested in your work. ------------------------------ From: Land Shark Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 10:22:35 -0700 Subject: Re: Newbie enquiry At 11:53 AM 4/4/96 +0100, you wrote: >I need to find out the interface requirements for the diagnostic connector >in the engine bay in order to read the Fault codes and anything else that >may be available. OK .. do you have an EPROM burner .. read me the EPROM, and we'll see whats in it .. if you can take a photo of the board, and digitize it, all the better!! >I found the list of Motronic fault codes on the Web and spent ages in the >car switching the ignition on and pumping the gas pedal, but the Engine >Fault lamp wouldn't flash, so I guess it's too new a version (pity). If you are talking about the list on the BMW web pages, that is MY list, and is specific to BMW's made for sale in the US from 1988-1995 >My expertise is in microcontroller hardware and software design, so I'd >be more than willing to share anything I come up with in exchange for the >information. Sure enough .. Now very likely the processor is either 8051 based or 8096 based .. if you already have an EPROM dump (try and read it as a 27C512) you can look at the image .. or send it to me and I will ... The chronology SORTA goes like this .. Version # Processors uP Identity 0 1 1802 1 1 805x 2 2 805x, MC68HC11ish 3 2 805x, 8x196 4 ? ?? Jim > >Can anybody provide me with the info or any pointers? > >Many thanks in advance! >-- > John Ansell | Voice: 01442 343183 | "Mother in law" is an >Crosfield Electronics | Fax: 01442 343153 | anagram of "Woman Hitler" > j2a@xxx.uk | | - Adrian Plass > > ------------------------------ From: gtk110@xxx.edu Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:50:07 GMT Subject: Re: ATI Supercharging > > >Sure it is... At least the oxygen sensor monitor part. If you're at all >capable with electronics, you can build a monitor for about 20$ and a couple >of hours. Use a National Semiconductor LM3914 and a handful of LED's. >Gives you a 10 dot readout and requires only a handful of readily available >parts. The graphic readout is much more readable than squinting at a >voltmeter while you're trying to drive, and you can add a little filtering >to smooth out the fluctuations. Darrell, I'm very much a novice at the wiring and stuff, but how could I wire this into my 5.0L Mustang...I think it would help when on the laughing gas. (diagrams if possible) Gannon "Gripping the wheel, his knuckles went white with desire...the wheels of his Mustang exploding on the highway like a slug from a .45... True death... 400 horsepower, maximum performance piercing the night... This is BLACK SUNSHINE!" ------------------------------ From: gtk110@xxx.edu Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:44:52 GMT Subject: Re:MAF sensor types (was re: Re: Sensor Questions?) > > > ~From: Tommy.Palm@xxx.se > ~Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:27:43 -0500 > > ~only mathematics. Anyone interested?? I can supply formulas and Reinhold > ~diagrams. I never finshed the job ( lack of reasons) but had a working MAF > ~ready. > ~ > I presume you meant Reynolds when you referred to Reinholds in which case I am > If it's Reynolds number, fill me in! (abbreviated "Re", right?) Gannon "Gripping the wheel, his knuckles went white with desire...the wheels of his Mustang exploding on the highway like a slug from a .45... True death... 400 horsepower, maximum performance piercing the night... This is BLACK SUNSHINE!" ------------------------------ From: LotusM50@xxx.com Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:16:00 -0500 Subject: Re: TEC In a message dated 96-04-03 21:09:12 EST, fcmefi@xxx.net (Fred Miranda) writes: >Hope you weren't refering to the TEC when you refered to the best system >that nobody can afford. The TEC isn't in the same league as some of the other >systems out there. Which systems do you feel are better, why, and how much more do they cost? ------------------------------ From: Land Shark Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 11:41:37 -0700 Subject: Oxygen Sensors .. another try Does anyone have any info on .. including contacts/phone #'s .. NTK/NGK and their wide range UEGO sensors .. Bosch, which supposedly has a "rich burn" sensor for racing Anyone .. please?!? Jim Conforti ------------------------------ From: Brad Sheridan Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:47:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: ATI Supercharging > > > > > > >Sure it is... At least the oxygen sensor monitor part. If you're at all > >capable with electronics, you can build a monitor for about 20$ and a couple > >of hours. Use a National Semiconductor LM3914 and a handful of LED's. > >Gives you a 10 dot readout and requires only a handful of readily available > >parts. The graphic readout is much more readable than squinting at a > >voltmeter while you're trying to drive, and you can add a little filtering > >to smooth out the fluctuations. > > Darrell, > I'm very much a novice at the wiring and stuff, but how could I wire > this into my 5.0L Mustang...I think it would help when on the laughing gas. > (diagrams if possible) > Gannon Its very simple to wire. The 3914 has an opamp for buffering, so all you have to do is run another wire from the output from the O2 sensor to the input of the 3914. It can be built fairly easily, the main question is whether or not its very useful. From what I have read on 02 sensors, they are only accurate around stoich, giving an output of .45 V. I doubt the O2 sensor output will even be worth reading while you're on the bottle. The diagrams for the monitor are on the DIY_EFI web site I believe, in the projects section. Brad ------------------------------ From: dapiper@xxx.net (David Piper) Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 23:20:52 -0500 Subject: Re: TEC >In a message dated 96-04-03 21:09:12 EST, fcmefi@xxx.net (Fred Miranda) >writes: > >>Hope you weren't refering to the TEC when you refered to the best system >>that nobody can afford. The TEC isn't in the same league as some of the >other >>systems out there. > >Which systems do you feel are better, why, and how much more do they cost? > Buy a Motes TurboDave Less Maintenance, More Performance. ------------------------------ From: Steve Alexander Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 22:39:16 -0700 Subject: Re: ATI Supercharging Seth Allen wrote: - ---much snippage-- > --I mostly agree with Frank-- > > IMHO, it is running rich, which results in the highest exhaust temp. > Lean has excess oxygen, but the temp is cooler, the excess oxygen burns > valves and seats that way. Sorry, i'm new here but isn't that backwards? Lean is much hotter than rich! (So - rich causes the fuel to ignite in the CAT - BAD, Lean causes it to MELT BAAAAD!). ------------------------------ From: Darrell Norquay Date: Thu, 4 Apr 96 23:16:56 MDT Subject: Re: ATI Supercharging > Darrell, > I'm very much a novice at the wiring and stuff, but how could I wire > this into my 5.0L Mustang...I think it would help when on the laughing gas. > (diagrams if possible) > Gannon It may or may not give you meaningful results when using nitrous, but it's worth a shot to see what you get. It may give you some indication if you're rich or lean when you push the "go fast" button... O2 sensors are really not very good at what they do, but they give a ballpark estimation of what's happening. The schematics are somewhere in the DIY web page as someone else pointed out, or you can have a look in a NatSemi applications book for info. I built a dual channel unit small enough to fit into a 2" gauge housing from an old gauge I had kicking around. Das Blinkenlights look nifty in the dash with the other gauges, but the jury is still out as to interpreting the results... There is a good FAQ on O2 sensors on the net somewhere, do a search for O2 sensors or oxygen sensors. It'll give you a good intro on the things. regards dn - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@xxx.ca Datalog Technology Inc. Voice: (403) 243-2220 Calgary, Alberta, Canada Fax: (403) 243-2872 "Absolutum Obsoletum" - If it works, it's obsolete - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: arthurok@xxx.com (ARTHUR OKUN ) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 01:38:07 -0800 Subject: Re: ATI Supercharging isnt duty cycle what the ecm really looks at how about a cheap micro controlled duty cycle meter ? ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #99 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".