DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, 6 April 1996 Volume 01 : Number 100 In this issue: RE: TEC RE: ATI Supercharging RE: ATI Supercharging RE: TEC RE: TEC Re: ATI Supercharging RE: TEC See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Pearl Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:10:13 -0600 Subject: RE: TEC They aren't the absolutely best this is true - however they're at least close in the realm of affordability. While they were out of my range they certainly didn't cost like some of the others! Who would you say has the best and why? Motec? (fuzzy on that name) Some of the more expensive boxes go with fuel control to each cylinder and do all sorts of neat things - great for Indy maybe but my car drives on the street (grin). The TEC has been used in some race series and I think it's software is nice but the price of admission for box AND software was too much for my pocketbook. Had I the cash and fewer emissions concerns I'd have gone with them. Currently I have both a sniffer and a visual test to contend with - I was worried that the TEC would be obvious enough to fail visual - not so with the DFI! I've been told there have been some problems with the TEC connectors on their box - true? As I recall they use screws to hold down the wires? Been awhile since I looked at one up close. All in all I'm fairly happy with my DFI - I just wish they were continuing to develop software for it (like TEC does) and continued the development of the box I've got. I've been told that development for both has stopped - their money is going towards the piggyback Ford box and the sequential box. Too bad for me and many others... - ---------- >From: Fred Miranda[SMTP:fcmefi@xxx.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 1996 11:39 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: RE: TEC ===SNIP== >was one of the big reasons I wanted to buy from them, oh well - maybe next >time... Jim I like doing the harness myself. I run the wires where and how I want. Neat or sloppy. Also it's much easier to troubleshoot and change things with the green connectors they use. Hope you weren't refering to the TEC when you refered to the best system that nobody can afford. The TEC isn't in the same league as some of the other systems out there. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@X/`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F# $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0````P```!*5E! 45-) M+D-/30`#``80-LQ!(P,`!Q#V!0``'@`($ $```!E````5$A%64%214Y45$A% M04)33TQ55$5,64)%4U142$E325-44E5%+4A/5T5615)42$594D5!5$Q%05-4 M0TQ/4T5)3E1(15)%04Q-3T9!1D9/4D1!0DE,25195TA)3$542$595T5210`` M```"`0D0`0```&8&``!B!@``8 H``$Q:1G7S%*,S_P`*`0\"%0*H!>L"@P!0 M`O()`@xxx.W`N0'$P*# M-!+,%,5]"H"+",\)V3L7GS(U-0* !PJ!#;$+8&YG,3 S+Q10"PH58@P!8P! M(%2P:&5Y( K "? G!4"F=!R0',!B@HQS !4!L96$>46,7,#\1L![ `Z =0A>@!T!M M(-QO9AS #= %L&0!H ,0P&ET>2X@5QZ0(*!]'^,@'Y @00A@!4 B,6WM'+!R M&I$CE6,$D &0"X#Q'@%D:60=`@6@'E$B\+YK'6 =H > (B(=0F\=0=T1H"$* MA0J%(U!O(_ (8+!L9"!Y"& G0&$,P!P*>!W:#QY/P70*! % MD"O *&9X=7IZ'+ "(!TQ('%N>F$'@"D&`"=I!& @064\>' )\ "0'[ >(&]X MS0>19RF!(P!H("Q@'?#O)J$", -@`R!T*8 @L!%PO2#P>2+P*V ?P2M29"F MOP= `R =H `@!" B,6X@L'\>8QJ@!" ?4 G!('$B@2#N22M@'+ `P'D>,!X@ M)&'U),%C"L%D!1 ?L#,!(72W$\ )T05 * G "X I(S!S'($<<$5#*G,>, GP M(/YU$; IX"%A)U,D\"6@xxx.XG!" =H & =QS1'L(# M`#\Z`36"'4(34#R"(C)D;3T$`6DLP322+U$4L$Y$ESNH._ >X6\I@&UU,5'C M-)(DP7!O8R<@xxx.

`3K@1,,&X# !85\G M0 ,`#= QY4=P=@xxx.N _PBF@1C (D"G@ M+///'4(X0BFD-5%O8DAP"&"W!" )\ A@9T61*8!F"W!_`R!(=1]032 %0!V@ M15<@xxx.$(P M@3-08_@`1& <+YP(^$O\B3!3Y%*(VHY$+\%0 /Q19,C MY3"""X!U,\'_,/(-L!^P%S!;P#NW-)(C`/\L0"<#.$(R4 >0+8 K4F!5_TL# M'6!A-0> `C GECZR4+/]+[!T(S!0OR!Q9-H^=# !_RJ"$\!A@"[0*>!5T55# M!&"_,U 2P4L#U!`R :T(#@xxx.3:!D#$Z,_HY%+!-?#]VW6\0 M?G]Y&WDF0'E?>S(%H"G `W!B(BX)\&1M218L`9SA!<2]R,S,V@<186P0(`LO ```,`$! ``````P`1 M$ $```! ```#T``0````4```!213H@ &`````!* ` end ------------------------------ From: Jim Pearl Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:40:40 -0600 Subject: RE: ATI Supercharging sounds like he's looking at the J&S Knock sensor - it'll integrate both knock sensing and O2 monitoring in one package. Not a bad part I've been told but watch where you mount the sensor (smile). BTW you shouldn't RELY on a knock sensor to tune your spark curve. Knock sensors will only pick up the knock after some have occurred - not good... I'd be interested in a schematic and or more info on the LED monitor - sounds like just a voltage meter right? Applicable to knock sensor monitoring too perhaps (grin). The MSD retard is a Band-Aid - I do NOT like them. I'll ASSume this is on a Mustang? If so there are other better options for you to explore but they are no cheaper and considerably more complicated - they are better tho'. The Mustang, the Camaro, and many other vehicles that are being modified nowadays have computers that have NO idea what boost is. This makes tuning them more difficult (IMO) although MAF may help (?) by just measuring mass air flow. On my Mustang before I went turbo I used no FMU (junk) and no boost retard - I simply gave it the proper size injector and the correct calibrated MAF - no problems and no knock. If this is another vehicle or if your past the point of being able to do this give more info and perhaps more help will be forthcoming (smile). Tell us what the problem is and what you wish the end result to be - what vehicle, what motor, what computer, what injector and ECU mods etc.. - ---------- >From: Darrell Norquay[SMTP:dn@xxx.ca] Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 1996 9:13 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: ATI Supercharging Doug Gubbins wrote: > I am considering replacing the MSD spark retarder with a knock sensor > package that also contains an LED oxygen-sensor monitor. But it isn't cheap. Sure it is... At least the oxygen sensor monitor part. If you're at all capable with electronics, you can build a monitor for about 20$ and a couple of hours. Use a National Semiconductor LM3914 and a handful of LED's. Gives you a 10 dot readout and requires only a handful of readily available parts. The graphic readout is much more readable than squinting at a voltmeter while you're trying to drive, and you can add a little filtering to smooth out the fluctuations. I don't know too much about the spark retarder, but I've heard the MSD unit isn't that great. > Can one of you engineers enlighten me a bit and maybe prevent my throwing > money away on a solution that might not be fixing the basic problem? Or how > to tell conclusively what's going on here? Sorry, can't help you much with your catcon problem, but it seems to me that running too rich would burn the thing up in short order. I don't think that running lean would cause it to burn out, since there wouldn't be enough fuel to combust inside the converter, which after all is it's purpose. You didn't mention how many miles were on the converter, if it was a few years old it's possible it just died a natural death... Regards begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(BH/`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F`!(`!0`:`0$) M@xxx.35&,C0T-#4U,S4T,# P, !^!@$#D 8` M< H``!(````+`",```````,`)@xxx.0`` M*7$^!B.[`1X`< `!````%@xxx.B!!5$D@4W5P97)C:&%R9VEN9P````(! 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M3- Q.3DV(#DZ8#$S(%!-@xxx.;X3_?SM00'E?#"8S-GG'+Q11"_)ZQ@xxx.C'\"H5^/D 1 M34!(MQW2%Z +46/_524^8RPD/K0OP0/P(-$J;/>:)R-U3R5L0[%(P0&0F**C M`Y$V8F]X>2/ ;HY@_SL;**$E\6!A! `IHD@#,>WO0= UN)1& '+!F*7!I M$C9A'6#],>9':L$$(";B)$ :P$ Q_U[2)'"MLB'B%Z" L%H@xxx.RF[5B M`Q!'<78+< M@xxx.P?^U5U1B@B @X#53M6(Z)+*Q_QQP MMD$",!W5)$ *A3AR./3O)H H8:CFJT!Y.^1 , 40_R40392KUB1PK)(<\ ) M.D'_4& XD)MC"H4K42A ': @xxx.HDD Q_RFB(0$'X#PB MNT.ME">#+#/_"H6=1DS0)>(D\T@1/O&<9O]5`:-V3S,)P1X0I?&9ODTP_R,4 M:2$FXHWA"X )X"VA"?!_'/ Y<25A,!$D06!A3;1Y^S,1$U!E)1 G45KA'D # M8/\#\)2'FI B44=B)B!.(30#_P;P)?!%@4\D*% Y<3$S;5+\:7B<)B1@`) T MP&1E.:#V3P7 *5!WFB$,>F_QR@ M510\,040)E(I8B71!*'_'D)"(1WA+L$C`2E!),$%L/<$@<49X;)KPL9/0M^V MIE'_`Z#@Q#H07/%@4UYQX3*ML?M,T"&18T#C)K'@PRFB,Q'_"?!70@J%LO!8 M("M"2>$EX/=3TDCC8E5N)1 `('5TX(*_+Y2ID3\2'[$$(%' 99 M)O%00"F3!X"]`?_9(L7A3?,H4BVQ)J(U]>MY;V>Q8&$F(#\R9@?0"H5Y_\E1 M0H$EL>U44\ `D#HR8&'_. -00##Q)$"PP%QQL-%3$=\>0#'/DU!@$ L@ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:53:25 -0600 Subject: RE: ATI Supercharging Aww geez - he DID tell us what car etc. - excuse the last (most) part of my last post. My foot tastes nice thanks. Miata huh? I take it you've spoken to Peter Farrel (sp?). He's right up the street and a heck of a nice guy - I also notice he uses an FMU on his Miatas (as I recall). Don't like them and excessive richness is what likely killed your cat (pardon the pun). As I understand it - the cat it supposed to burn off extra fuel and noxious gases right? Dump extra fuel into it and it gets HOT. This is why I'm told it's not supposed to be installed on many SCCA type cars - fire concerns. Mine have overheated (pretty red and blues) and I know it's from running rich although the Walker ones seem to hold up well to this abuse. I took a set out that I was sure were fried - nope - perfect! the cases had actually turned colors from the heat - the muffler guys were shocked they weren't fried. The guy who created the Interceptor for the Mustang and for Peter's RX7 cars might be able to provide you with a bit of fuel control or Peter here on the list (SuperChips) might be able to do a chip for your car? I still stand by my contention that the MSD is a Band-Aid and that when you modify cars that weren't OEM with boost that it's difficult. The Miata's spark curve and fuel curve had no idea of "boost" when it rolled from the factory. What you and many Mustang guys are doing is attempting to patch up something that's really off for a boosted app (IMO). Peter (Superchips) might be your best bet for this if you can work something out, I'm not sure that Peter Farrel has gotten inside this computer - he's been inside the RX7 one tho' (grin). The car he had in Car & Driver (Road and Track?) had a zillion chips in and out of it while getting ready to take to them for review. He blew the seals off his rotors on the way up there and had to be fixed by MD Performance Center on the way up (snicker). Tooo much booost he said.. - ---------- >From: Seth Allen[SMTP:n9540517@xxx.edu] Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 1996 2:34 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Cc: Doug Gubbins; diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: ATI Supercharging On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Frank Parker wrote: > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:15:07 -0500 (EST) > From: Frank Parker > To: Doug Gubbins > Cc: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: ATI Supercharging > > > > > I'm running an aftermarket intercooled supercharger on a 1.6L Mazda Miata. > > Max boost 12psi, using 93 octane fuel, higher when I can find it. The system > > uses a boost-controlled variable fuel pressure regulator and an MSD spark > > retarder. > > > > > > I am considering replacing the MSD spark retarder with a knock sensor > > package that also contains an LED oxygen-sensor monitor. But it isn't cheap. > > > I have a lot of experience using those fpr and msd boost retard. The first > thing you need to do is find out if you are rich which I suspect. The O2 > sensor does put out a voltage when changes very little from rich to very > rich unless you buy expensive $2500 UEGO sensor/electronics package. You > need to dial in the a/f ratio better and it is hard to do with fpr. Can > adjust to be ok @xxx. There are some new > electronic controllers to chg fuel press with boost but much more > controllable. > Hook digital voltmeter up to o2 sensor and monitor while driving. Will > jump around but average about .5 during cruise. If lift throttle will drop > to 0 as cpu shuts off fuel and @xxx. > I have lots of other things you can do. email mail back if interested. > Frank Parker> - --I mostly agree with Frank-- IMHO, it is running rich, which results in the highest exhaust temp. Lean has excess oxygen, but the temp is cooler, the excess oxygen burns valves and seats that way. A lean misfire with unburned fuel and oxygen would really heat up the catalyst as it burned in the matrix. You could detect a lean misfire as it stumbled under boost. Leaning it back to stoichiometric would cool it off a bit, but if it got lean, the exhaust valves could have a hard time. I think you might need a bigger catalyst to reduce the catalyst loading. The stock catalyst cannot put up with the extra exhaust gasses. The stock catalysts on my VW golf will eventually die an early life when exposed to continuous full throttle and stightly rich mix. (My friend had this problem with his Golf gti, I had slight clogging with my rabbit gti). So, IMHO get a larger catalyst, maybe V8 sized. Good luck, Seth Allen WWU Vehicle Research Institute These opinions are just my own, and no warranty is expressed or implied. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(AL/`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F# $````% M````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0````P```!*5E! 45-)+D-/30`#``80M#F]> ,` M!Q!J#@``'@`($ $```!E````05=71T5%6BU(141)1%1%3$Q54U=(051#05)% M5$,M15A#55-%5$A%3$%35"A-3U-4*5!!4E1/1DU93$%35%!/4U1-649/3U14 M05-415-.24-%5$A!3DM334E!5$%(54@_251!2P`````"`0D0`0```#L-```W M#0``Z!8``$Q:1G50MGOX_P`*`0\"%0*H!>L"@P!0`O()`@!C: K B M(&A M92!$240@$]!LM0,@=00@=Q& !4!C"L&)$1_$<"!!'N!-(2!]`A!O!4 !D!/!!" #`&-C M'W(`<&MS+@J%"H5-!P0A@)SIV'4!S(9 E M< .@=&_,(% 1P 20($8*P!>@)0,@*"9 /RD>X$AE)B<$( 409V@%0'5PWQ^# M$\ )T05 `'!D*: =(9QC:R#2), BXV=U(2#7'1 E, = 0[P"0)A$%$!%P;C!Q)9 >!=4O8FPA(&L#$&P)@"7"/P7 'G @ M`0L"+3$?DG!U]FXG\".L02XR-# $@1/ ORFR):$=$!^2,R(EH7,HT/1*'/Q)1!$ M=6THX#BI"X FL1@'F "(",` M!* C@"1QJS$@'2!A)A%O)A!R'3#_'D RH3-@%Z "0"$@%Z$IH]T*,G,@<"FR M)3!K*] 'X/\^PP-2*& T, ,`&J PTRMQ[Q^0"& HD!^#5P= )7 %P/\"( >1 M$; OT2:Q2' ^D2C1_G<=LB:Q'Y M<0&@'U$>X+\E,2(P*D DP!&Q(-!U(E'[ M'C(E,'`4XR(":!?UV2!&$&D&6A0A)H9%6%3_Q% M35W$!N @04T4/L-I8?]"R2W("0/\3X 4P1[) 2U%V0AXQ M*$)$4%$B.&(_67)>(6MR14(W<" 024W^3R?Q)N1A)&-28( ,0*N%$X?M'LT109%%!2S$E8DLC+]'_67(7H%U !] H M`D6A!]$I`_]X400@xxx.&(M8@-@63&/L3/$_TV0(2 HU$*1*;)0DC_D0G#V>#*A M96%-'8 FX$^ !;#[`X$C`4-F`4E3D.HGL"+A_TE!AB(B,"; 4X!($6MA:X(_ M*1(+<%8P(YT*]"]@xxx.<,T)GC"UDQ-@J@D%%/H;\=`)P' M"H>:NPPPFX9&`V&^.IT.FX8,@xxx.36:`#4Q-T"! 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MB ]('^ !Q1'>O]_@/A5W[%LP8J#4I/:4MA!OP"P@9 )LW7Q[9!6 MMDQ$4/_5T(&2`+#QH!$![$1_@!'B[V"2=>(]LM2#<@KC-%P:8?=#$5:VWL!L MB #KLM311%%_:>:10.V009"A,--!8?!S_T)S7=,:,#?R<;(@5C>%MK7_?F A M8GA%4M.1=(:!0''<0?\?(HN!.]4%590`7S"2\ .C_^5A(6*VM>@`F[/PD3JJ M/]3_9*#'L-\12H'@X(#Q:V,S,?\STG537$$FHI*!MK5DH'5 _V-1=T+^(3VE MU(('`@M27B/_-30FXK- @=$Z@S:V,I0X7/=!U/!%!W1I?M S,>4@=W+?YY!I M`UP3]?->(F?5@xxx.$_1R5A?^+[ M(O^1<5W38)*VM0"P7S#HD#)V_F=TU FC M65%O=S4AX-)_X/>5,8% TT!T_4""T0"QW[+_!*%Y`4X`O?".8&J^=N^\_U>^ M#YO"MK5]MK `>W ``P`0$ `````#`!$0`0```$ `!S" *B-E!B.[`4 `"#" =*B-E!B.[`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B `````4JD` ` end ------------------------------ From: Fred Miranda Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:28:55 GMT Subject: RE: TEC An altenative to Motec is Autronic, also from Australia. I have one in my Elan. Can be had for $1100-1200US. Software around $50 I think. 8 inj drivers with individual trims (sequential) control for up to 4 coils (you supply drivers) very good acceleration enrichment control air temp correction that seems to work (in the TEC it causes problems due to heat soak) the list goes on This unit could also be hidden, in fact, replacing a stock sequential box that uses Bosch type sensors could be done using most of the stock harness. >Who would you say has the best and why? Motec? (fuzzy on that name) Some of >the more expensive boxes go with fuel control to each cylinder and do all >sorts of neat things - great for Indy maybe but my car drives on the street >(grin). The TEC has been used in some race series and I think it's software >is nice but the price of admission for box AND software was too much for my >pocketbook. Had I the cash and fewer emissions concerns I'd have gone with >them. Currently I have both a sniffer and a visual test to contend with - I >was worried that the TEC would be obvious enough to fail visual - not so >with the DFI! > >I've been told there have been some problems with the TEC connectors on >their box - true? Yes, esp when abused. Fred ------------------------------ From: jgn@xxx. Napoli) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 13:38:42 -0500 Subject: RE: TEC At 09:10 AM 4/5/96 -0600, diy_efi@xxx.edu wrote: >They aren't the absolutely best this is true - however they're at least >close in the realm of affordability. While they were out of my range they >certainly didn't cost like some of the others! > >Who would you say has the best and why? Motec? (fuzzy on that name) Some of >the more expensive boxes go with fuel control to each cylinder and do all >sorts of neat things - great for Indy maybe but my car drives on the street >(grin). The TEC has been used in some race series and I think it's software >is nice but the price of admission for box AND software was too much for my >pocketbook. Had I the cash and fewer emissions concerns I'd have gone with >them. Currently I have both a sniffer and a visual test to contend with - I >was worried that the TEC would be obvious enough to fail visual - not so >with the DFI! > Why the dependence on aftermarket EFI for street or quasi-street applications? Aren't enough different stock units available to meet the needs of a given situation? And at a much lower (salvage) price? ????????????? Regards, John ------------------------------ From: Darrell Norquay Date: Fri, 5 Apr 96 12:52:21 MDT Subject: Re: ATI Supercharging Steve wrote: > Sorry, i'm new here but isn't that backwards? Lean is much hotter than rich! > (So - rich causes the fuel to ignite in the CAT - BAD, Lean causes it to MELT > BAAAAD!). > I'm not all that familiar with catcons, but I am pretty sure that they are used solely for reduction of unburned hydrocarbons and combustible products in the exhaust. After all, a catalyst by definition enhances or causes a chemical reaction to proceed faster, or initiates a reaction under conditions which it would not normally occur. Logic dictates that if you are running lean, there would be less combustible by-products, and the catcon would not have "fuel" to react with, thus the internal temperature of the catcon would be lower. (Jeez, I sound like Spock there :) If, however, you run rich, the catcon has an abundance of fuel, which would cause it to overheat and fuse it's internals. Some catcons have an auxiliary air input from the AIR system pump to provide additional oxygen to help combust unburned fuel, which would help to raise their internal temperature even more under rich conditions. I think this is a separate issue to exhaust gas temperature, which is generally higher under lean burning conditions, and lower with rich. The catcon is capable of GENERATING heat greater than the incoming EGT if it has fuel to react with. If you were running lean, EGT would be higher, but heat generated in the catcon would be lower, and vice versa. IMHO, the change in exhaust gas temperature due to rich or lean would be much less than the change in catcon internal temperature under the same conditions. Come on all you combustion engineers, am I on track here? regards dn - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@xxx.ca Datalog Technology Inc. Voice: (403) 243-2220 Calgary, Alberta, Canada Fax: (403) 243-2872 "Absolutum Obsoletum" - If it works, it's obsolete - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:23:04 -0600 Subject: RE: TEC John wrote .... >Why the dependence on aftermarket EFI for street or quasi-street >applications? Aren't enough different stock units available to meet the >needs of a given situation? And at a much lower (salvage) price? > >????????????? >Regards, > >John ============================================================================= I guess I'm not the only one thinking that OEM is the best bet for street. Is it just me and John, or do most DIYers think it's better/cheaper to adapt an exiesting OEM EFI system? I do have the utmost respect for those guys who start a DIY FI with just a thought and a pen :^] GMD ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #100 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".