DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, 13 April 1996 Volume 01 : Number 108 In this issue: Re: HEI dizzy Re: Outboard Motor Coils Patents for multi-spark ignition system Re: Outboard Motor Coils RE: thermocouples and mixture. Re: Outboard Motor Coils Re: Outboard Motor Coils Re: Outboard Motor Coils Re: Outboard Motor Coils Re: Outboard Motor Coils Re: thermocouples and mixture. RE: Knock sensor using HIP9010 Re: Outboard Motor Coils Re: Multi Spark Ignition... Re: thermocouples and mixture. RE: Knock sensor using HIP9010 Re[2]: Knock sensor using HIP9010 RE: Knock sensor using HIP9010 Re: Outboard Motor Coils Re: Outboard Motor Coils Re: Knock sensor using HIP9010 Non EFI question, desperate for help, save my TPI manifold! Re: thermocouples and mixture. More Spelling BS?! Re: thermocouples and mixture & smelly cats See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Darrell Norquay Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 21:25:17 MDT Subject: Re: HEI dizzy Dan wrote: > Hopefully there are a few out there that know about the early Chev HEI > distributers with the built in coil. Basically I am after some sort > of an idea what the tacho output waveform should look like, since I'm > not sure if the module in my dizzy is OK. It is a 4-pin module. The > waveform I get goes to about 45V for the 1st 1/3 of the pulse, it then > drops to about 15V for the remaining of the pulse. > Obviously the pulse is not quite as square as above, but I am > wondering if this seems correct, because it seems to drive the tacho > in the computer crazy and the car seems to idle roughly while > misfiring above 1500rpm. I have a 78 Camaro with HEI (for now). All the Tach output drives is the tach in the cockpit, and I've never scoped it. It does, however, have a large feedthrough capacitor (looks a lot like the old points ignition cap, but the wire goes straight through) in the line just before the wire goes thru the firewall. You could start by ensuring that this cap is present, and mounted close to your computer on the engine side, and that the mounting tab is well grounded. You didn't mention what kind of computer you have, but I get the impression you just installed it, since early HEI's weren't made to tie into computers. In any case, most computers expect a 5 volt square wave (well, nearly) input. No wonder the thing's going nuts if you're dumping 45 volt pulses into it. Check the dox on your computer, if it has any, and see if they say what the tach input want's for voltage. If it's 5V, as I suspect, you'll need a resistor, cap, and zener diode to connect in the lead between the tach output and the computer. 10000 Ohms from HEI >------/\/\/------o---------o----------------> to CPU 1/2 Watt | | | | ___/ _____ 5V Zener // \ _____ .001 uF Cap 1 W /___\ | 100V | | O---------- | ----- --- - This circuit will convert your input into a relatively clean square wave at a voltage which should be compatible with the computer. Solder the components together, insulating them from each other, and attach 3 wire leads (in, out, and ground). Heatshrink the whole thing together and wire it in series with the tach lead close to the computer, making sure it has a good ground. If the input requires some other voltage than 5V, simply use the appropriate value zener. It's also quite possible that your module is bad. Happens fairly often. Hopefully, you haven't toasted anything in your computer. You should be able to get a new 4 pin for around $20-$30. > Also what is a good size spark plug gap to use with these, I have read > anything from 0.028" - 0.075", I'm using a 0.04" gap with a 350Chev. Gap em at .045" - .050". Works for me. regards dn - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@xxx.ca Datalog Technology Inc. Voice: (403) 243-2220 Calgary, Alberta, Canada Fax: (403) 243-2872 "Absolutum Obsoletum" - If it works, it's obsolete - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "David M Parrish" Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 08:02:17 +0000 Subject: Re: Outboard Motor Coils > From: "Jim Staff" > > This engine also uses unusual spark plugs. There are no conventional > > electrodes. Looking end-on to the plug, it looks like an archery target -- > > three annular rings. The center ring is the center electrode, the second > > ring is the insulator, and the third ring is the outer electrode (case). > > Viewed from the side, the plug is flat across, with the insulating ring > > slightly recessed. The spark occurs at any point across the faces of the > > center and outer rings. These plugs last a long time, and, of course, there > > is no gap to adjust. > The questions... > 1. How far do these suckers stick below the head? > 2. How much volatge is used to drive the puppies? > 3. How large are they? I believe surface gap plugs can only be used with CD systems and have no extension past the threads and probably none into the cylinder. Most likely, they're specifically for two-stroke engines. That's the most I can dredge up from memory, since it's been a long time since I read anything about them. As to using outboard marine coils, aren't they driven from the magneto and/or alternator just under the flywheel? Hard to say just what voltage they're being fed. - --- David Parrish Man, it's been a while since I fooled with outboards! ------------------------------ From: m_mcdonald@xxx.com Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 09:22:38 EDT Subject: Patents for multi-spark ignition system One person on this list has made available a schematic from the company that makes the most popular (and the only?) multi-spark ignition system. As I recall, it's the MSD system made by Autotronic Controls of El Paso, Texas. The company has two patents on this product. Both of them contain schematic diagrams and a detailed description of how a multi-spark ignition system works. If you want both of these patents, send a check for $6.00 payable to the Patent and Trademark Office. Send it to Patent and Trademark Office Washington, DC 20231 along with your name and address and these patent numbers: 3,926,165 4,131,100 The patents should arrive in 3-4 weeks. The respective dates of the patents are December 1975 and December 1978. Since patents issued then are valid for 17 years, both have expired now. Marll McDonald KB1AGM m_mcdonald@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: jgn@xxx. Napoli) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 09:32:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Outboard Motor Coils At 07:59 PM 4/11/96 GMT, diy_efi@xxx.edu wrote: >> Question 1: Would these coils (and, possibly, their electronic controller) >> have applicability in an automotive application? >> >> This engine also uses unusual spark plugs. There are no conventional >> electrodes. Looking end-on to the plug, it looks like an archery target -- >> three annular rings. The center ring is the center electrode, the second >> ring is the insulator, and the third ring is the outer electrode (case). >> Viewed from the side, the plug is flat across, with the insulating ring >> slightly recessed. The spark occurs at any point across the faces of the >> center and outer rings. These plugs last a long time, and, of course, there >> is no gap to adjust. > > >You know I always wondered why they didn't make plugs like that? I see a >circular electrode as being nearly foul free, hanving a good spark as the fround >expands towards the piston and not at the cylinder walls as with a normal plug. > >The questions... > 1. How far do these suckers stick below the head? Not far at all. I would say flush to the head or at most slightly proud. > 2. How much volatge is used to drive the puppies? Unknown. Whatever the coils referenced in the first part of my original message can put out. > 3. How large are they? > Look like a regular plug. 13/16" socket. A friend with a nitrous drag car grabbed some off my shelf a year ago, wanting to experiment. But he melted a piston before he could and the car is not back together yet. > Jim Staff > Always looking for a cool way to improve a 3HP Briggs performance. > Use it to drive the alternator on a big block. (G) Why not hack an overhead valve head out of aluminum? Regards, John ------------------------------ From: Andrew Dalgleish Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 09:43:11 -0400 Subject: RE: thermocouples and mixture. For someone who knows a lot about copyright laws, you don't seem to spell too well : ) their, electronic, illegally, material, counterfeit, definitely, category of..."? That includes your scanner. You have to get there permission first if you want to be legal about it. And congress just passed a new law making it illegal to use electrinic equipment to illigally copy copyrighted matterial. Sort of like passing a law making it illegal to use a color printer to counterfit dollars. That diffinately falls into the "no shit" catagory. But then, this IS congress I am talking about! ------------------------------ From: jgn@xxx. Napoli) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 09:44:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Outboard Motor Coils At 07:35 PM 4/11/96 -0500, diy_efi@xxx.edu wrote: > >John, let me give my two cents worth on this. > >Question 1: Would these coils (and, possibly, their electronic controller) >>have applicability in an automotive application? > >Technically speaking, I can see no reason why the coils will not work. >Consider this: >If they can fire through 50:1 gas/oil ratio, a 4 stroker shouldn't be a >problem. It's worse than that! This motor calls for a 25:1 ratio, and I usually run it at closer to 20:1. >Since they are marine components by design, the automotive >enviornment should be easy. I can see many problems trying to use the >controllers (possible built in timeing and dwell changes for one). Wasn't really thinking about the marine controller. Wow -- 2 cycle, 6 cylinder -- did I just find the new ignition for my 12 cylinder Jag? Seriously, I have no idea how the controller is calibrated. >Keep in mind that using stock automotive coils (one /cylinder) should also work. If >they can fire 8 times / 2 revs, then once per 2 revs should be childs play. > >>Question 2: Has anyone used plugs like this, and to they have applicability >>in an automotive application? > >Been there, tried to do that. What I found out is that the 'marine' plugs >are not offered in heat ranges that most autos use. This was 3 years ago, >they may be at Wallmart now. I agree with your thinking! > I assume they were too cold? Regards, John ------------------------------ From: jgn@xxx. Napoli) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 09:49:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Outboard Motor Coils > >I just thought I would put my little bit of knowledge in here about the >spark plugs you mentioned. They sound very similar to the NGK plugs that >are used by MAZDA in some of their rotary engines. They are a surface >discharge plug that performs very well, especially in turbo-charged rotarys. >The plugs used in the rotaries are SD-10 and SD-9 both made by NGK. > >A while ago I was looking through the NGK catalouge and found that there >is quite a variety of heat ranges available in these types of plugs. The >usual designation is SD-xx where xx refers to the heat range. > >Hopefully this is of some use to the fellow list members !!! > >Regards, > >Rob Skala > > > Yes, these are NGK plugs on my boat. Now both two-strokes and rotaries have more power 'strokes' than four-stroke motors. Is this significant? What does it mean vis-a-vis four-stroke engines? Regards, John ------------------------------ From: ducharme@xxx.com Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 10:56:23 EDT Subject: Re: Outboard Motor Coils John Napoli wrote: >> Jim Staff >> Always looking for a cool way to improve a 3HP Briggs >> performance. >> > Use it to drive the alternator on a big block. (G) Why not hack an > overhead valve head out of aluminum? Back in 1968 B.C. (Before Computers ) I drew up one such a head in high school drafting class. As I remember, it was an overhead cam hemi head. Of course, it went no further than that drawing board. I wonder if a B&S Vanguard head could be grafted on to a flathead block... (nah...) Cliff Ducharme ------------------------------ From: Land Shark Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 09:08:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Outboard Motor Coils At 08:02 AM 4/12/96 +0000, you wrote: >I believe surface gap plugs can only be used with CD systems and have >no extension past the threads and probably none into the cylinder. >Most likely, they're specifically for two-stroke engines. That's the >most I can dredge up from memory, since it's been a long time since I >read anything about them. Actually, I *believe* that these type of plugs are used on the latest rotary RX-7 turbo motor .. or something similar.. Jim ------------------------------ From: jgn@xxx. Napoli) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 11:16:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Outboard Motor Coils >As to using outboard marine coils, aren't they driven from the >magneto and/or alternator just under the flywheel? Hard to say just >what voltage they're being fed. > >--- >David Parrish >Man, it's been a while >since I fooled with outboards! > On this motor (a Mercury 2.4 Bridgeport Mod VP) I believe that the ignition controller is fed 12 volts. Regards, John ------------------------------ From: werner@xxx.com (John Werner x25054) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 08:23:25 PDT Subject: Re: thermocouples and mixture. >>>>> "jc" == john carroll writes: jc> It seems that watching the temperature across the converter jc> with a pair of thermocouples would be the best way to make use jc> of exhaust gas temperature to monitor mixture. If it works, jc> it has the elegance of causing something that does not jc> contribute to performance become useful. I would think you really would want to monitor the temperature where you can more quickly detect a change. The problem I see is that the large thermal mass of the catalyst would change temperature too slowly to use to quickly adjust the mixture. I would be afraid of the exhaust temperatures rising suddenly (too lean) and burning a valve before the cat showed much change (due to the new mixture). A better approach, IMHO, would be to monitor on the exhaust manifold, or even in the exhaust stream itself. Perhaps a needle like thermal couple probe inserted into a hole in the exhaust manifold would work. BTW: I remember reading somewhere that Volvo looked into a fuel control system based off of exhaust temperature instead of Ox sensors. - -- John Werner | Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here INet: werner@xxx.com | are not necessarily those of my employer, XNS: werner@xxx. Work: (716)422-5054 Home: (716)436-3607 ------------------------------ From: jsturs@xxx.nl (Jim Sturcbecher) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 17:17:11 -0100 Subject: RE: Knock sensor using HIP9010 >Jim, > >I have been procrastinating about writing of my experiences with >the hip9010 for a couple of months. > >What kind of ignition system are you using? What sort of input do >you want? > >I will try to put some background info on the net tonight >----------------------------------------------- >jac@xxx.us >john carroll The engine is a 1991 GM 305 TPI with intake/exhaust mods plus supercharger. The ignition system is a MSD6BTM system. I don't want to disturb the knock sensor already fitted, so I was thinking of interfacing to a new independant unit. I would like to measure the amount of knock so that I can optimise the ECM tables rather than relying on the BTM to add retard under boost whether the engine needs it or not. What would be most useful would to have the spectrum signature of the knock events. As has been already suggested, I could induce knock and analyse the transducer output. However, with 420 bhp on tap, this could become an expensive exercise if I overdo it. Later, Jim Sturcbecher jsturs@xxx.nl ------------------------------ From: "David M Parrish" Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 12:42:57 +0000 Subject: Re: Outboard Motor Coils > From: Land Shark > Actually, I *believe* that these type of plugs are used on the latest > rotary RX-7 turbo motor .. or something similar.. Shows how much I know. Must be some reason you only see them on two strokes, rotories and a few others. - --- David Parrish Something or other is the first to go. ------------------------------ From: sandy Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 12:43:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Multi Spark Ignition... Frank- I would like to get a copy of the MSD schematic. Sandy Ganz 22021 Del Valle Street Woodland Hills, CA 91324 Thanks ********************************** Sandy Ganz sandyg@xxx.com Visix Software Inc. ********************************** ------------------------------ From: ehernan3@xxx.com (Edward Hernandez (R)) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 13:06:43 +0500 Subject: Re: thermocouples and mixture. "If combustion is taking place in the converter, (the mixture is rich) the outlet sensor will probably be the hotter of the two and visa versa." Rich mixtures do not raise catalyst temperatures, they lower them. It's a well known fact that this is how OEMs make cats last longer. "Now both two-strokes and rotaries have more power 'strokes' than four-stroke motors. Is this significant? What does it mean vis-a-vis four-stroke engines?" It means that the plugs are colder and would likely foul if used in a car engine. I think somebody mentioned they couldn't find ones hot enough for a car. PS for the person who suggested that this kind of plug may alter the shape of the flame: the flame front is a dis- torted sphere(depending on how much swirl is in the chamber at igni- tion). Plug design does not affect this shape, but it can affect the the shape of the kernel right at ignition. Kernel shapes and growth rates affect how lean you can run before you misfire(lean limit), but not power or anything a DIYer(who normally runs rich to be safe) might care about. Ed Hernandez Ford Motor Company ehernan3@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Jim Pearl Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 15:24:25 -0400 Subject: RE: Knock sensor using HIP9010 This echoes my requirements. I've got some sort of GM knock sensor on my car and have about the same hp etc. Currently my only access to this data is thorugh a laptop. Some sort of meter would be good. You might try checking with the GN guys to see if their meters would work for you. I've seen a couple and some are cheap with only a piezo beep and LED flash to notify the driver. These are three-wire hookup to the ECM so it could possibly help you. Let me know if you'd like the name and source of my friends box, I've not been able to get him to let me look inside yet (smile). At 05:17 PM 4/12/96 -0100, Jim Sturcbecher wrote: >>Jim, >> >>I have been procrastinating about writing of my experiences with >>the hip9010 for a couple of months. >> > >>What kind of ignition system are you using? What sort of input do >>you want? >> >>I will try to put some background info on the net tonight >>----------------------------------------------- >>jac@xxx.us >>john carroll > >The engine is a 1991 GM 305 TPI with intake/exhaust mods plus supercharger. >The ignition system is a MSD6BTM system. I don't want to disturb the knock >sensor already fitted, so I was thinking of interfacing to a new independant >unit. I would like to measure the amount of knock so that I can optimise >the ECM tables rather than relying on the BTM to add retard under boost >whether the engine needs it or not. > >What would be most useful would to have the spectrum signature of the knock >events. As has been already suggested, I could induce knock and analyse the >transducer output. However, with 420 bhp on tap, this could become an >expensive exercise if I overdo it. > ------------------------------ From: Gary W Harris Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 16:50:26 -0400 Subject: Re[2]: Knock sensor using HIP9010 Text item: What you need to do is monitor and record the ALDL data stream while you are driving. I beleive there are counters that track the knock count which are output as part of this data stream. You will also get the MAP and timing data that corresponds, all time correlated--thus you can develop new fuel/timing tables to compensate for the boost. Sounds simple? Gary Harris "The sum of all knowlege is greater confusion" --Henry Miller >Jim, > >I have been procrastinating about writing of my experiences with >the hip9010 for a couple of months. > >What kind of ignition system are you using? What sort of input do >you want? > >I will try to put some background info on the net tonight >----------------------------------------------- >jac@xxx.us >john carroll The engine is a 1991 GM 305 TPI with intake/exhaust mods plus supercharger. The ignition system is a MSD6BTM system. I don't want to disturb the knock sensor already fitted, so I was thinking of interfacing to a new independant unit. I would like to measure the amount of knock so that I can optimise the ECM tables rather than relying on the BTM to add retard under boost whether the engine needs it or not. What would be most useful would to have the spectrum signature of the knock events. As has been already suggested, I could induce knock and analyse the transducer output. However, with 420 bhp on tap, this could become an expensive exercise if I overdo it. Later, Jim Sturcbecher jsturs@xxx.nl Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Reply-To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Precedence: bulk Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: RE: Knock sensor using HIP9010 From: jsturs@xxx.nl (Jim Sturcbecher) To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 17:17:11 -0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 X-Sender: jsturs@xxx.nl (Unverified) Message-Id: <199604121725.TAA12311@xxx.com> Received: from dyna-27.bART.nl by lava.ivg.com via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/94040 6 .SGI.AUTO) for id TAA12311; Fri, 12 Apr 1996 19: 2 5:40 +0200 Received: from lava.ivg.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI ------------------------------ From: jsturs@xxx.nl (Jim Sturcbecher) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 22:26:47 -0100 Subject: RE: Knock sensor using HIP9010 On Fri, 12 Apr 1996 15:24:25, Jim Pearl wrote: > >This echoes my requirements. I've got some sort of GM knock sensor on my car >and have about the same hp etc. Currently my only access to this data is >thorugh a laptop. Some sort of meter would be good. You might try checking >with the GN guys to see if their meters would work for you. I've seen a >couple and some are cheap with only a piezo beep and LED flash to notify the >driver. These are three-wire hookup to the ECM so it could possibly help >you. Let me know if you'd like the name and source of my friends box, I've >not been able to get him to let me look inside yet (smile). > thanks Jim, I'd appreciate 'talking' to this guy. I have also been looking at getting the GM sensor/harness and conditioning module and working from there. At least I'd have the filters already done. Later, Jim Sturcbecher jsturs@xxx.nl ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 17:20:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Outboard Motor Coils At 09:44 AM 4/12/96 -0400, you wrote: >>>Question 2: Has anyone used plugs like this (marine), and do they have applicability >>>in an automotive application? >> >>Been there, tried to do that. What I found out is that the 'marine' plugs >>are not offered in heat ranges that most autos use. This was 3 years ago, >>they may be at Wallmart now. I agree with your thinking! >> > >I assume they were too cold? > > >Regards, > >John \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ If I remember correctly, the plugs were designed to run hot to prevent deposits from forming on them. Two cycles outboards tend to be sloppy. If I can find some that are compatable with my TPI engine I might give them a try. GMD ------------------------------ From: iNCH Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 23:08:40 +0100 Subject: Re: Outboard Motor Coils Surface discharge plugs, what's the point? Er, there isn't one, and that's the advantage. Not having a pointy bit sticking out into the combustion chamber, there is a very short path for the heat to be conducted away into the cylinder head. So, I would say that these plugs would be ideal in hot situations. One problem running them in a two valve would be the positioning of the plug, the flame path would be increased, requiring more ignition advance. ------------------------------ From: FIScot@xxx.com Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 20:23:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Knock sensor using HIP9010 In a message dated 96-04-12 13:52:34 EDT, you write: >The engine is a 1991 GM 305 TPI with intake/exhaust mods plus supercharger. >The ignition system is a MSD6BTM system. I don't want to disturb the knock >sensor already fitted, so I was thinking of interfacing to a new independant >unit. I would like to measure the amount of knock so that I can optimise >the ECM tables rather than relying on the BTM to add retard under boost >whether the engine needs it or not. The 1991 TPI code already has some timing optimizing code in it. It only tries to optimize when the engine is under a somewhat steady state load. Scot Sealander FIScot@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 19:47:22 -0500 Subject: Non EFI question, desperate for help, save my TPI manifold! First off, excellent asci schematic by dn. I needed that info about 10 years ago when I was attempting to build an EFI from scratch. Not to cause a flame war, but I know of no other people to ask this question. I removed my original '68 chevy 302 (vintage) aluminium intake from my 350 engine and got a terrible surprise. Apparently, some type of electro-chemical reaction has corroded the mating surfaces of the intake at the water crossovers. I noticed a leak forming several months ago but did nothing because of the planned TPI conversion. I thought it was a intake gasket leak. The strange thing, is that the interior surfaces of the water jackets show no evidence of this active corrosion. Is this 'common' for aluminium intakes? It's new to me. What caused this? And most important of all, how can I be sure the same thing will not happen to my $$TPI$$ manifold? The only thing different about my cooling system is that the inlet radiator hose has a metal (steel) Tee installed with a two terminal temperature switch in one port. One side is attached to +12v (switched) the other goes to the cooling fan relay. Both terminals are insulated from the coolant, I think :{} Could this be a possible cause? I sure some one has seen this before. Any help would be greatly appreaciated. George M. Dailey gmd@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: orlin steven jared Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 21:30:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: thermocouples and mixture. > Rich mixtures do not raise catalyst temperatures, they lower them. > It's a well known fact that this is how OEMs make cats last longer. Unless you pump more air into the catalyst. A nice struggle for the DIY'er who is trying to get a three way cat w/air pump system calibrated for a non computerized engine. Steve ------------------------------ From: "Clinton L. Corbin : Backgrind/Gold : Pager 0544" Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 18:59:21 PDT Subject: More Spelling BS?! >For someone who knows a lot about copyright laws, you don't seem to spell >too well : ) >their, electronic, illegally, material, counterfeit, definitely, category 1. What I posted was just about all I know about copyright law. 2. I never claimed to be an English major. (ME actually) 3. No, the mailer that I am using does NOT have a spell checker. 4. No, I cannot get a different mailer. This is the company's system. 5. For more info on copyright law and the electronic age, Byte magazine has an excellent article on it in either 1994 or 1995. Sorry, don't remember what the exact issue was. 6. Are we (meaning the list) going to start another useless "I can spell better than you can" flame war? The last one was bad enough! Clint ccorbin@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Brad Martin Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 23:33:18 -0400 Subject: Re: thermocouples and mixture & smelly cats At 09:30 PM 4/12/96 -0400, you wrote: >> Rich mixtures do not raise catalyst temperatures, they lower them. >> It's a well known fact that this is how OEMs make cats last longer. Is this why many cars (esp. Fords) smell like rotten eggs when you get behind them going up a hill? If the rotten eggs smell is Sulfer Dioxide, does that mean you get Sulfuric Acid when it mixes with the H2O in you respiratory system? sounds worse than the cat-less alternative. Peace DIYers- Brad ==== Also, you may want to check out: http://www.bmicad.com (bmi CAD's homepage) http://www.bmicad.com/nehahome.html (New England Hillclimb Association's homepage) ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #108 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".