DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 3 May 1996 Volume 01 : Number 128 In this issue: Re: Honda UEGO Sensor... Opinions. Re: Opinions. Re: EEC-IV Questions Re: Opinions. fwd: re: Re: in circuit programmable logic? Re: NTK UEGO Re: Opinions. Re: NTK UEGO L-jetronic info See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank Parker Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:18:42 -0600 (EDT) Subject: Re: Honda UEGO Sensor... > > Frank Parker writes: > > > UEGO, wide range sensor, same sensor as used in NGK/Horriba a/f > > meter. Japan Patent # 148849 dated 1987 > > Frank, > Do you (or anyone else) know the US patent number(s) for this (these) > device(s) ? I wonder if the Japanese patent is available in English. > > Bryan Zublin > bzublin@xxx.com > I will call our library today ( Thur) to see. Frank ------------------------------ From: Farzaan Kassam Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 09:48:05 -0700 Subject: Opinions. Any opinions on the following ECU piggyback units and standalones. This is for a 1992 Eagle Talon AWD Turbo. I have only found two units that will work with this car. 1. Autotronic - standalone computer, anti-lag built in, fuel, timing and boost. Uses speed density to calculate fuel. $1900 2. EFI (Doug Wallace) - piggy back unit, timing, fuel, boost controllable. Data logging available, but no laptop adjustment, only small built in screen adjustment. $1850 Any info would be appreciated. I currently run an HKS VPC (piggyback fuel computer) and am not too happy with the results. It does not handle the period before boost very well. The sign of black smoke pouring out the exhaust just looks cheap and unprofessional, although I don't mind the flames during the occassional shift :) Farzaan. ------------------------------ From: ehernan3@xxx.com (Edward Hernandez (R)) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 14:13:26 +0500 Subject: Re: Opinions. Farzaan, welcome to the DIY digest ;) ------------------------------ From: ehernan3@xxx.com (Edward Hernandez (R)) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 15:33:41 +0500 Subject: Re: EEC-IV Questions "Does it support real time data output of sensor readings in any fashion?" I don't think so. We needed a PC based interface installed between the harness and the EEC module to allow us to read sensors in real time. The EEC module will not report anything out to the user. Our interface displayed sensor values AND their physical measurements, i.e., MAS voltage as well as mass air flow in kg/hour. It was also a data logger. You could run with the interface alone, too. It could and often served as a standalone EEC module. Stuff DIY dreams are made of, but it obviously isn't DIY. And, by today's standards, it was huge, about the size of the older stand-on-their-end IBMs of just a few years ago. It required a laptop as second interface for the end user and also to display all these things. If we sold them to the public, I'd be saving my money to get one. ------------------------------ From: Land Shark Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 15:48:55 -0600 Subject: Re: Opinions. At 09:48 AM 5/2/96 -0700, you wrote: >Any opinions on the following ECU piggyback units and standalones. This >is for a 1992 Eagle Talon AWD Turbo. I have only found two units that will >work with this car. How about just modifying the STOCK computer ... There is NOTHING man can create, that another man can't MODIFY :) Jim PS: I reverse BOSCH boxes ... ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 2 May 96 17:45:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: fwd: re: Re: in circuit programmable logic? Comments By: Steve Ravet@Prj Eng@PCPD Hou Originally To: Originally Cc: Originally From: mdl@xxx.com (Matt Landrum) Original Date: 5/2/96 4:05 PM Comments: There was a thread a while ago about cheap FPGA software/programmers. Here's what I've found: 1) Lattice has a deal for $100. This includes windows based software, which is either their proprietary PDS language, or ABEL. This software will only work with 3 devices, the 1016 (16 Generic Logic Blocks), the 2032 (8 GLBs), and the 22v10. I have no idea how "big" these chips are. It includes programming software for the ispGDS (generic digital switch) line of chips. It includes download software and a download cable. It also includes three devices, a 2032, a 22v10b, and a GDS14-7j. No dedicated device programmer is necessary, but you need a special socket on the board to accept the programming cable. The software appears to be basically PAL-like software, equations only. No simulator, etc. 2) Cypress has a deal for $200, if you have a PC w/windows. They sell the Warp2 VHDL compiler for $99, and the programming/download software/cables/etc. for $99 The VHDL compiler runs on PC, Sun, HP, but the download software only runs on the PC. Again, no dedicated device programmer is needed, (if you have a PC) but you have to have a special connector on your board to accept the programming cable. This package supports GAL type devices as well as CPLDs up to 128 macrocells. It seems to me that you could make your own "programmer" for either of these systems by building a special board with the cable connector, and sockets for whatever types of devices you want to program. Umm.. Guess that's about all I know. I've attached an email that I got from a rep at cypress. - --steve Steve Ravet sravet@xxx.com Baby you're a genius when it comes to cooking up some chili sauce... - -------------------------[Original Message]-------------------------- - -> From SRavet@xxx.com Thu May 2 12:44:36 1996 - -> - -> Hi Matt, thanks for getting back to me. I am interested in this package - -> for home/hobby purposes, which is why cost is important. The Lattice - -> package is a lot more limited than Warp, but for $100 it includes - -> everything I need, including 3 devices. Yes, this is a nice package. Perfect for home use/prototyping. Of course this does not include PLD design software. With Lattice you will have to learn their proprietary PDS software or use a Third party solution like ABEL. If what you really want is to do PLD design, I would strongly suggest Warp2 which supports IEEEE 1076/1164 VHDL, LPM 2.1, and all Cypress PLDs/CPLDs and FPGAs. I'll assume you are only interested in building boards and already have the JEDEC file for the purposes of discussion. - -> My wife won't let me spend $1000 - -> for a device programmer :-) It's not clear to me what the up front cost - -> of going with Warp would be, including everything I need to start - -> programming devices. I got the fax you mentioned. Since the 370i parts - -> are ISR, then do they still require a programmer? No, you do not need a programmer. Right now for Flash370i, we only have PC cable programming available (no embedded controller programming). There's a connector that goes on on your board and a cable that hooks into the port on your PC. - -> The Lattice kit only needs a cable, which is included. - -> Tell me what a minimal system would be - -> that would allow me to design and program 370i parts. 1. CY3120 Warp2 - $99, VHDL Development system for PLDs, CPLDs, and FPGAs You can do your designs and learn VHDL (looks great on the resume) 2. CY3600 ISR Programming Kit (should be available by the end of this month) - $99 The kit contains the programming software, user's guide, application notes, and cable. 3. PC (Warp2 runs on the PC, Sun, and HP. The ISR programming s/w itself only runs on the PC). 4. Your completed/prototype board with a connector to which the programming cable connects. It sounds like providing a board with a few adapters to provide a low-cost programming system would be nice. The design is the fun part to me and what I like to do at home. If the design is what you are most interested in, you can always use a programming service or program the devices at work. There's really no reason to need devices and do programming if you are just interested in the design part. You can do the design and simulate it with the software. And with Warp2, you're using VHDL which can be used by any major CAE tool. Our FAE, Kenny Van Zant, has regular VHDL classes which use the Warp2 software. Let me know if you want to go to one of those. Possibly Kenny could come over and give the class to a group of you guys if 10-15 of you are interested. So the bottom line is "tell me exactly what your objective is" and I'll think of some reason for you to buy Cypress :) Let us know if you have further questions. - -> - -> My phone number is 713 514 7633, and my fax # is 713 514 1731 - -> - -> Steve Ravet - -> sravet@xxx.com - -> Baby you're a genius when it comes to cooking up some chili sauce... - -> ------------------------------ From: robert dingli Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 11:33:59 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: NTK UEGO Fred writes, > BTW I heard a while back (maybe on this list) that the Honda UEGO was > optimized for the lean range. After all, that is what they are using them for. > Also I think Robert Dingly mentioned that NTK made 3 versions of the > UEGO - rich, lean, and wide band. The NTK UEGO (which I use on our research engine) has a separate control / interface module which gives a not_quite_linear 0-5V output. While the sensors are all the same, the interfaces come in three ranges, rich (~10-15:1), normal (~12-30:1) and lean (~14-50:1). While the lean unit would have suited my work better, it was out of stock in Australia and had a 3 month lead time. The sensors are calibrated at the factory and are supplied with a 'calibration resistor' as part of the connecting wiring. Thus any sensor can be used with any controller without individual calibration. I have swapped sensors in the past and didn't notice any difference in the outputs. The NTK rep said that this sensor is different to the one Honda use and that the Honda one isn't available here since that version of the car isn't sold here. :-( I pulled the lid off the NTK controller and was glad that I didn't bother to make one myself. It's a complex little critter and for AUD$750 it is not worth making them in small quantities. The sensor # is TL-7111-W1 5914-152 and the controller TC6000 05452. regards, Robert - -- Robert Dingli r.dingli@xxx.au Power and Control Systems (+613) 9344 7966 Thermodynamics Research Labs (+613) 9344 7712 University of Melbourne, AUSTRALIA ** he who dies with the most toys, wins ** ------------------------------ From: WERNER_HAUSSMANN@xxx.com Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:03:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Opinions. Hello Jim I noticed you said you reverse Bosch boxes. Do you have any schematics, parts locator, block diagrams etc for the L-Jetronics boxes? The car wiring etc is available, I am looking for information inside the box (computer). I have an interest in these. They are analog boxes. Most Power guys, and V8 guys sneer at them because they use the air meter (air flap) but they are very easy to retrofit to existing carb engines and easy to get. The are relatively easy to modify for A/F ratio without writiing any code, but it is easier with schematics!!!! I'd appreciate any information, or leads to information. Werner ______________________________ Reply Separator ________________________________ _ Subject: Re: Opinions. Author: Non-HP-owner-diy-efi (owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu) at HP-ColSprings,mimegw2 Date: 5/2/96 4:48 PM At 09:48 AM 5/2/96 -0700, you wrote: >Any opinions on the following ECU piggyback units and standalones. This >is for a 1992 Eagle Talon AWD Turbo. I have only found two units that will >work with this car. How about just modifying the STOCK computer ... There is NOTHING man can create, that another man can't MODIFY :) Jim PS: I reverse BOSCH boxes ... ------------------------------ From: Land Shark Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 22:11:55 -0600 Subject: Re: NTK UEGO At 11:33 5/3/96 +1000, you wrote: >The NTK rep said that this sensor is different to the one Honda use and that >the Honda one isn't available here since that version of the car isn't sold >here. :-( At the same time, others have told me that the active element of that sensor and the $600 NTK one is identical ... >I pulled the lid off the NTK controller and was glad that I didn't bother >to make one myself. It's a complex little critter and for AUD$750 it is >not worth making them in small quantities. Well .. what did you SEE ... what Analog parts are being used :) Do tell ;) >The sensor # is TL-7111-W1 5914-152 and the controller TC6000 05452. In the US, the set is $1000 and THAT is total Highway robbery!! I'm sorry, but $600, where a similar sensor is $130 is criminal (Just HAD to be said!) Jim ------------------------------ From: Haas@xxx.nl Date: Fri, 3 May 96 09:58:27 +0200 Subject: L-jetronic info Werner, I am not sure if you have got an early or a late L-jetronic, but take a look at http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124775/ which is the hompage of a Finish Alfa Romeo nut. He has done his part of research on the early L-jetronic. Joeri de Haas ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #128 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".