DIY_EFI Digest Monday, 10 June 1996 Volume 01 : Number 162 In this issue: Re: Knock sensor? Re: Knock sensor? Re: EFI questions and answers Re: DIY_EFI Digest V1 #161 Re: DIY_EFI Digest V1 #161 EFI0000.ZIP Re: EFI questions and answers [admin] Improved ftp site w/archive search See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pfenske@xxx.ca (peter paul fenske) Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 08:50:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Knock sensor? >[Chomp] >>A few programable operating parameters and one size could fit all. Detroit >>Deisel Engine control uses something like this currently. The Saab system >>is largely software controlled and would seem a likely platform. >> >> When you get it to work I want one that I can switch to 4,6, or 8 cyl, >>and will work on turbo charged 500 caddy in a 1ton 4x4 54 Cornbinder! >> >> Any challengers for off the wall? >> >> >I guess we need some hardware first... > >Sandy > >Hi Sandy: >>Been working this way for years but time is hard to find and a project >>of this magnitude would either require a tremendous effort from >>one individual(become a diy efi hermit) or a combined effort. >>I have been working on GMs system for many years. What you want >>is adaptive controls both in fueling and spark. The general >>did this in the early eighties. >>While in university I developed an open loop system which using >>maps would run just about anything. I never at the time designed in >>the adaptive part but with help probably could. >> >>Should there be a desire I could post schematics,pcb and software. >> >>Anyways just 3 cents: peter > ------------------------------ From: Sandy Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 11:12:12 -0700 Subject: Re: Knock sensor? At 08:50 AM 6/9/96 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Sandy: >>Been working this way for years but time is hard to find and a project >>of this magnitude would either require a tremendous effort from >>one individual(become a diy efi hermit) or a combined effort. I have become the said hermit along with many others! >>I have been working on GMs system for many years. What you want >>is adaptive controls both in fueling and spark. The general >>did this in the early eighties. >>While in university I developed an open loop system which using >>maps would run just about anything. I never at the time designed in >>the adaptive part but with help probably could. >> >>Should there be a desire I could post schematics,pcb and software. >> >>Anyways just 3 cents: peter > YES, you should post what you have, John Gwynne has an _approved_ ftp site for EFI related projects. I just dropped off v0.00001 of what I have been working on. Any other input would be great! I have yet to start worrying about the software, this will come on its own! I have some documents on the PC interface, but that is about it. You should take a look at what I have completed, it currently is on the ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/pub somewhere, possibly still in the 'incoming' directory if John has not moved it yet. The file name is EFI0000.zip or something close to that. I do like the adaptive concept, and that will require much more work, but if we can get something that at least is useable, then everyone with a PC could start to hack their own version of the IDEAL control software. Sandy ------------------------------ From: Todd Knighton Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 10:00:59 -0700 Subject: Re: EFI questions and answers Fred Wrote > > Don't you mean "the" best rather than "next" best? > Horiba sells a UEGO meter for about $2500, and if you have connections > in the automotive industry you can get a UEGO sensor + controller box + > cable for just over a grand, directly from NTK. You make your own display. > I just got mine. Very nice for tuning away from stoich! > > Fred There is one problem, it will go only about 5 hours on leaded fuel vs. 50 plus for the Bosch probe. The last time I tried to purchase the compete UEGO unit, Horiba didn't have their meter ready yet, and the UEGO sensor was running over $1,200.00, and the other pre made controllers were $7,000.00 plus. Congrat's on getting it together cheaply :) Todd. ------------------------------ From: ptimmerm@xxx.GOV Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 13:40:12 -0700 Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V1 #161 Hello DIY'ers Le me introduce myself. Paul in Pasadena, working on turbo charged audi applications. I have been doing all my own work and have my 2.15 liter motor running at about 250 HP and 16 pounds of boost. I would like to progress further but need to have knock sensing to do so. Has anyone worked up a DIY solution to this potentially expensive option? I understand how to mount the sensor, but am pretty cluesless about knock sensor output wave form and sensing circuits. Thanks in advance. Paul Timmerman Pasadena CA 91104 ------------------------------ From: Todd Knighton Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 15:36:50 -0700 Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V1 #161 ptimmerm@xxx.GOV wrote: > > Hello DIY'ers > > Le me introduce myself. Paul in Pasadena, working on turbo > charged audi applications. I have been doing all my own work > and have my 2.15 liter motor running at about 250 HP and > 16 pounds of boost. I would like to progress further but need > to have knock sensing to do so. Has anyone worked up a DIY > solution to this potentially expensive option? I understand > how to mount the sensor, but am pretty cluesless about > knock sensor output wave form and sensing circuits. Thanks > in advance. > > Paul Timmerman > Pasadena CA 91104 Paul, A relatively cheap unit from J&S Electronics interfaces with just about any standard ignition system to include Knock Sensing, either on an individual or group basis. John has done his homework on this unit and we use it for dyno and in car knock control. I think the base units are in the high $300.00 range. You can get all kinds of monitors and things attached to it, but for basic knock sensing the basic unit works well. He can be reached at J&S Electronics (714) 534-6975 13925 Parkway Drive Garden Grove CA 92643 Good Luck on your project, Todd Knighton, Protomotive Engineering. Email: knighton@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: David Channon Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:36:42 +1000 (EST) Subject: EFI0000.ZIP Gang, > I just dropped off v0.00001 of what I have been > working on. Any other input would be great! I have yet to start worrying > about the software, this will come on its own! I have some documents on the > PC interface, but that is about it. You should take a look at what I have > completed, it currently is on the ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/pub > somewhere, possibly still in the 'incoming' directory if John has not moved > it yet. The file name is EFI0000.zip or something close to that. Just a note that the eps file in the EFI0000.zip sandy posted has two line prepended to each of then that will stop the postscript interpreters from reading them correctly. You need to remove the first two lines then all is OK (At least from the Unix and postscript perspective - I understand sandy viewed them under NT). Do not edited the files with vi (No editors wars please!) as the files conatin some line lines which vi (standard I have not tried the clones) will truncate resulting in the boarder detail only. Cheers David. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------- David Channon .-_|\ Department of Computer Science / \ The University of Newcastle \.--._/ NSW, 2308, AUSTRALIA v Email : dchannon@xxx.au URL : http://wwwcs.newcastle.edu.au/Research/VMRG/dchannon.html - ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." -- Donald E. Knuth ------------------------------ From: Frank F Parker Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: EFI questions and answers > > >The next best one seems to be utilizing the UEGO sensor but > >these units all get up over $7,000.00 plus and are probably not for the > >DIY'er. > > Don't you mean "the" best rather than "next" best? > Horiba sells a UEGO meter for about $2500, and if you have connections > in the automotive industry you can get a UEGO sensor + controller box + > cable for just over a grand, directly from NTK. You make your own display. > I just got mine. Very nice for tuning away from stoich! > > Fred The NTK/Horriba unit uses the UEGO sensor that requires a complex constant current supply and a transfer function that is not known except generally in a couple of SAE papers. Horriba owns the marketing rights and sell unit for $2400, replacement sensors for $900. If you promise in writting that the unit will not be used for a/f measurements but for cpu control etc, NTK will sell you sensor for $400 and box for $660, a total of $1060. This is a good unit but you must provide a separate mounting bung as it will not run factory ecu. Bosch makes a very special voltaric O2 sensor that is used in their $9800 LA-2 a/f monitor. This sensor is specially made for constant temp and reduced flows and is compatabile with std ecu. You can replace std O2 sensor with LA-2 unit and tee off and coneect to std car cpu and your external LA-2 elec box and thus monitor a/f. Turns out, it is not too hard and Jim conforti and I are working on a cheap display that will use the bosch sensor ( < $200 ) and give readout of a/f from 0.7 (rich) to about 1.25 (lean). The advantage of this sensor other than being affordable is its ability to run the car while you monitor any mods. Jim and I will keep list advised of this project. Frank Parker > > ------------------------------ From: John S Gwynne Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 02:04:42 -0400 Subject: [admin] Improved ftp site w/archive search - -------- It's 2:00am Monday morning... I've wasted all weekend setting up a web sever and search engine for the ftp/archive site. You can now search, with html article retrieval of the results, the subject lines and the context of all the past post to both diy_efi and efi332. The subject line search works pretty good, but the context search is a little slow. The computer is only a 33MHz 386 w/ 6MB of RAM (I'm looking from something faster...). There's little fluff at the moment, but I think you will find most of the essentials are in place. To reiterate, this is work in progress. Give it a try. http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@xxx.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7297 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #162 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".