DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, 15 June 1996 Volume 01 : Number 167 In this issue: Re: efi332 unavailable? Re: DIY_EFI Digest V1 #165 tr7/8 help re: tr7/8 help Re: tr7/8 help Sensor linerization Re: Solenoid Wanted RE: tr7/8 help Re: tr7/8 help Re: GM ECM: Vats Water injection and GMs TPI GM manuels Re: Sensor linerization See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Gunnesch" Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 09:14:14 -0400 Subject: Re: efi332 unavailable? regarding my previous email about efi332: the project web page as given in the intro to efi_digest is incorrect. The following page does get it for me tho: http://www.cim.swin.edu.au/~aden/web-docs/efi332/332_index.html sorry to waste bandwidth. andrew ------------------------------ From: Paul.J.Timmerman@xxx.gov Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 08:38:51 -0700 Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V1 #165 >>I plan on running at 18 psig with a 7.0:1 compression engine, >>giving about 275 hp out of 2.15 liters. >What engine is that and how is your system configured? Are you >injecting the water before the turbo for better vaporization or after? I am running a 1982 Audi Quattro Trubo, with an inline five cylinder motor and a KKK k-26 turbocharger. I have modified the wastegate control using an adjustable air spring, the ignition advance by hacking the ECU, and am running intercooler misters. I am getting ready for the Virginia City Hillclimb which is a short event. I am running a total loss water system, with a 5 gallon SS soda keg and a 5# CO2 tank to drive it. I have solinoids to turn on both the InterCooler misters and the water injection misters. I am running some misters that run 0.1 gallons per minute at 40 psi. At about 12-15 psi, and thus the rates are lower, but I can still drain a tank pretty fast. Not much good for big drives or long events but great for short things. In the future, 50/50 water methanol would be prefered, but I don't have the right SS parts for the whole system, and swapping brass nozzles is much cheaper.. paul timmerman ------------------------------ From: David Ford Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 03:05:46 +0900 Subject: tr7/8 help Howdy all, I have just joined this list and was wondering if anyone has done an efi (or other toys) for a rover 3500 v8 (215 ci) this engines appeared in the vitesse um sd1's and is originally a buick (62 or 69) 3500 v8,the engine that I'm planning on placing in the tr7 is a 85 onwards vitesse engine,these ran old the old j's, anyone ?, Cheers, Dave,? ------------------------------ From: SRavet@xxx.com Date: Fri, 14 Jun 96 15:30:02 CDT Subject: re: tr7/8 help David Ford Wrote: | | Howdy all, | I have just joined this list and was wondering if anyone has done an | efi (or other toys) for a rover 3500 v8 (215 ci) this engines appeared in | the vitesse um sd1's | and is originally a buick (62 or 69) 3500 v8,the engine that I'm planning on | placing in the tr7 is a 85 onwards vitesse engine,these ran old the old j's, | anyone ?, | Cheers, | Dave,? | | You might want to check out the DIY-EFI list if doing it yourself sounds interesting. See the WWW page @ http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca:80/~fridman/diy_efi/ for details, and subscribing Steve Ravet sravet@xxx.com Baby you're a genius when it comes to cooking up some chili sauce... ------------------------------ From: Frank F Parker Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 19:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: tr7/8 help > Howdy all, > I have just joined this list and was wondering if anyone has done an > efi (or other toys) for a rover 3500 v8 (215 ci) this engines appeared in > the vitesse um sd1's > and is originally a buick (62 or 69) 3500 v8,the engine that I'm planning on > placing in the tr7 is a 85 onwards vitesse engine,these ran old the old j's, > anyone ?, > Cheers, > Dave,? I did a efi conversion on Olds 215 V-8 a few years ago. Welded injector bosses onto a 4bbl manifold. Used a GM port system and sensors ,tho now I would use a DFI or Electromotive. Worked very well. frank parker > > ------------------------------ From: "J.W. Harris" Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 20:24:11 -0400 Subject: Sensor linerization From: pfenske@xxx.ca (peter paul fenske) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 10:19:36 -0700 Subject: Re: Sensor Linearization >i think the interpolation is "good enough" for most applications. >the curve on gm temp sensors is about 20% away from linear >if you want a small table from chiltons ill send it to you . > >Hi Arthur >Ur right actually for temp lookup it is good enough. >Might need a wee bit more resolution for interp table. Also >no hard rule about using a linear lookup table. Have the sensor >data from GM manuels. >Tnx greatly:peter >Ps if you have MAF data in gms vs volts. yes yes yes We use a table lookup and have a dual mode pullup resistor. I'll leave the details to your imagination. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- J.W. Harris Delco Electronics - Powertrain Eletronics Project Engineer One Corporate Center, M.S. CT40-C Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 E-mail: jwharris@xxx.com jwharris@xxx.com - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 12:22:00 +0000 Subject: Re: Solenoid Wanted - -> I suspect an RV water filter cartridge would be a better choice,,, - -> They flow a decent quantity of water and they can turn mud into - -> drinkable water....Camp world sells them for about 30 bucks as I - -> recall. A friend of mine was running 30 psi of boost on his 240Z with massive amounts of water injection to keep it from detonating to death. One night he was racing another car when the tube coming from the water tank stopped up with some crud. Holed several pistons and set the oil in the crankcase afire. A filter is a *very* good idea, and perhaps a pressure switch tapped into the water feed line to cut the spark should a no-water condition occur when under boost. ------------------------------ From: "Orin Harding" Date: Fri, 14 Jun 96 22:43:46 UT Subject: RE: tr7/8 help Dave, I'm planning on installing the same engine in a MGB and will be interested in any replies that you get. Why don't you want to use the Lucas (Bosch) system that was installed on the '85 SD1? I though it was supposed to be a good system. Orin@xxx.com NAMGBR@xxx.net WEB: www.deltacp.com Phone/Fax: (910) 854-3232 Mobil Phone: (910) 601-8418 - ---------- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu on behalf of David Ford Sent: Friday, June 14, 1996 7:05 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: tr7/8 help Howdy all, I have just joined this list and was wondering if anyone has done an efi (or other toys) for a rover 3500 v8 (215 ci) this engines appeared in the vitesse um sd1's and is originally a buick (62 or 69) 3500 v8,the engine that I'm planning on placing in the tr7 is a 85 onwards vitesse engine,these ran old the old j's, anyone ?, Cheers, Dave,? ------------------------------ From: David Ford Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 14:02:57 +0900 Subject: Re: tr7/8 help At 19:44 14/06/96 -0400, you wrote: >> Howdy all, >> I have just joined this list and was wondering if anyone has done an >> efi (or other toys) for a rover 3500 v8 (215 ci) this engines appeared in >> the vitesse um sd1's >> and is originally a buick (62 or 69) 3500 v8,the engine that I'm planning on >> placing in the tr7 is a 85 onwards vitesse engine,these ran old the old j's, >> anyone ?, >> Cheers, >> Dave,? > >I did a efi conversion on Olds 215 V-8 a few years ago. Welded injector >bosses onto a 4bbl manifold. Used a GM port system and sensors ,tho >now I would use a DFI or Electromotive. Worked very well. > > frank parker Yeah .. I'm not sure if I would bother with modifying the carb would probably just go for the original throttle body and building a computer to "work wonders with it" it'd be fun just gettin it to work let alone work well :-> Cheers, Dave, ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 23:32:30 -0500 Subject: Re: GM ECM: Vats At 09:37 AM 6/13/96 -0700, you wrote: chomp... >>Curious I am as to why you simply didn't use module and resistor. >>I guess it wouldn't be very neat in a classic. The modules that >>Ecklers and others sell are quite tacky. ... >>Tnx again George: >>:peter I wanted to use the factory module and resistor key but the GM dealers in Greenville MS acted like they did not know what I was talking about. "Just give me the part number off the part young man and we can order it", said them...."But I dont have the part... it's a custom application", said I. I think you get the message. They did have several modules listed, but we could not tell from their descriptions, exactly what they were for. The price made it dirt clear that they were not cheap. It seems like other security system modules were available as options. Apparently, GM does not call it a VATS module. BTW, I'm still trying to get a factory service manual for the '89 TPI 350. Keep in touch, and good luck on your swaps. Sounds like FUN FUN FUN! GMD ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 23:32:33 -0500 Subject: Water injection and GMs TPI Has any one tried water and or alcohol injection on GM's TPI engines? What were the horse power gains? How did the ECM like it? GMD ------------------------------ From: pfenske@xxx.ca (peter paul fenske) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 23:06:09 -0700 Subject: GM manuels >chomp... >call it a VATS module. BTW, I'm still trying to get a factory service manual >for the '89 TPI 350. >munch...... >Keep in touch, and good luck on your swaps. Sounds like FUN FUN FUN! > >GMD >Hi George: >Its my understanding that you can still order the factory manuals from >Helm and there is another source in New York. If you are serious >I work at a College and could probably copy er pass on some info >since there is a stack of these things here. >The best way I find to handle a parts man is to have the parts book >yourself. In the last swap meet here at cloverdale there was a ton of >em. Same at pallyup. Picked up a 93 Y body book for 5 bucks. Plus >lots of pretty drawings. Helps when you took things apart in a hurry. >As to the swap. Rich young friend has bought sight unseen a 92 corvette >LT1. Comes with absolutely everything. I shudder. Keep wondering >is abs talks to body talks to asr talks to pcm and all that. Hope >the ecm can be alone. I believe has has the vats module but no >key. Oh dear. Well he has already ordered the swap kit. Asked me >which weekend we could do this. I said which month. Well lets hope >it takes a week or two. >What's in it for me or efi. Well he has a stack yes stack of L98 >engines and goodies. If I accept the deal I get to stock my larder >in advance. >sori guys about your bandwidth. >Tnx again George >GL: peter ------------------------------ From: pfenske@xxx.ca (peter paul fenske) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 23:19:23 -0700 Subject: Re: Sensor linerization >Munch....... >>i think the interpolation is "good enough" for most applications. >>the curve on gm temp sensors is about 20% away from linear >>if you want a small table from chiltons ill send it to you . >>Bur......... > >We use a table lookup and have a dual mode pullup resistor. I'll leave the >details to your imagination. >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >J.W. Harris Delco Electronics - Powertrain Eletronics >Project Engineer One Corporate Center, M.S. CT40-C > Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 > >E-mail: jwharris@xxx.com > jwharris@xxx.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Hi J.W. et al >Just spent the evening with a spreadsheet playing with sensor data. >To duplicate GMs curve of 255 1.8 degree increments starting at >-110.2 degrees takes some doing. To get within one percent you >have to add an offset to discreet regions and still interpolate. >The conclusion I have reached for DIY EFIers is to do like Bosch. >Simply add a corrector pos or neg. This gets us close enough. >Also a plot of sensor data does reveal the S curve people suggested. >As to GM. By using a 300 ohm pullup with a simple offset an extremely >good approximation can be obtained with execellent resolution. This >region starts at about 180 degrees where you start thinking about >closed loop control. >As for the Map most speed density lookups start at 20 to 30 bar. >Thus it is not necessary to expand the resolution. Worthy of note >is the lookup is not necessarily linear. >Tnx again everybody: peter Oh by the way can somebody let me know how to post something on FTP with FTP for windows. (peter window illiterate) ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #167 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".