DIY_EFI Digest Monday, 24 June 1996 Volume 01 : Number 177 In this issue: address change bosch efi info??? Re: buick/holden v6 ,3800 Re: buick/holden v6 ,3800 H*LP needed understanding fuel\ignition curve dynamics Re: Bosch Motronic Questions Honda engine info Re: Honda engine info Re: Honda engine info MicroDynamics Dynorite EFI See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 00:26:13 +1000 (EST) Subject: address change Hi all, My email address is changing: OLD: s914440@xxx.au NEW: bnt@xxx.au Both will work for a while, but the old will then disappear. Could someone (John?) please update the server's address files to my new one? Thanks, Brian. ------------------------------ From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 01:23:21 +1000 (EST) Subject: bosch efi info??? Hi again folks, I have had an ecu sitting around for a while here and have taken a renewed interest, as it is HC11 based, and my own controller project is well on the way... I would be curious to see how others have done things, and I would also like to later apply this ecu and its sensors to a similar engine to its original application, with some tweaks. The unit is based on a 68HC11A8 for the main processor, and a 6805S3 for limp home mode. The system (in Australia at least) was used on some CA20 engined Nissan Pintara models, and some of the other clone models under different badges. It uses a bosch hot wire AFM and EGO, as well as other i/o as follows: 4x batched injectors(1group),coolant temp sens,throttle switch,2 coil ignition control (still using "double" dist.),engine position from distributor, vehicle speed sens,a/t lockup ctrl+start inhibit,fuel pump +3 other main controlled relays, a/c and 2 cooling fan relays, IAC valve (stepper controlling pintle valve)and thermal air bypass.Also has an ECM lamp on the dash for diagnosis and limp indication. I think the one I have was for a/t models, though the manual was not a lot different. I have most of the Nissan shop manual pages refering to the system, and a fair idea of the ECU internal circuit diagram worked out. I am interested in the source code, or even a hex dump for a start of the software in the rom/eeprom of the HC11, and also in the 6805S3. The PCB has room on it for an external rom to be added and an address latch, and there is also a prototype/production link on the moda pin of the HC11.... Methinks it should be fiddle-able to use external memory and play. If not I would still like to understand it all better. Also, any code at all that people can help me with for efi related use of a HC11 is of great interest, commented or not, hex or source. Lastly, I may have a way of reading out the code in the processor now, and I recall discussion of some HC11 Disassembly s'ware .... where do I look or who do I ask before starting to write my own? Thanks in advance for any help... sorry for the loooong post. Reply in person if more appropriate, to: bnt@xxx.au cheers, Brian. ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.au Date: Mon, 24 Jun 96 08:33:57 Subject: Re: buick/holden v6 ,3800 I may be wrong, but this is my understanding. The VN's (87-88) used the Buick as is (this is why the VN was such a slug). The 1 mill development has resulted in the green engine (VR onwards). I know the crank was very unbalanced and the computer has been re-designed, the heads and intake have also been severely re-developed. Any US people have any comments on the Buick engine ? Can't help you with any of the rest. Dan dzorde@xxx.au ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: buick/holden v6 ,3800 Author: diy_efi@xxx.edu at INTERNET Date: 6/23/96 2:55 AM Howdy all, Does anyone know the difference between the australain holden commodore v6 3.8 L and the buick v6 3.8 L supposedly holden australia spent over 1 mill on adapting it to "australian conditions",?? And secondly does anyone know whats involved in converting the throtle body,computer,etc,etc..... to being suitable for a v8 i.e. the rover/buick 3500,? Thirdly if this is a totally stupid idea (I believe they run on maf map's,maybe dull down fuel pressure or something??) does anyone have any idea's on a conversion possible for the 3500,australian parts prefered ------------------------------ From: Craig Pugsley Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:21:37 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: buick/holden v6 ,3800 > Howdy all, > Does anyone know the difference between the australain holden > commodore v6 3.8 L and the buick v6 3.8 L supposedly holden australia spent > over 1 mill on adapting it to "australian conditions",?? Aaah yes, the mystical "australian conditions", yes we all have to drive over a mountain in ice and snow then across a furnace like desert plain to get to work ;-) > And secondly does anyone know whats involved in converting the throtle > body,computer,etc,etc..... to being suitable for a v8 i.e. the rover/buick > 3500,? Err.. would be easier to use a custom manifold than try to re-engineer V6 manifold to V8. (Byron Lister, tsg_bhl@xxx.com has been seriously tweaking a rover 3.5 V8 - twin turbos, efi etc) > Thirdly if this is a totally stupid idea (I believe they run on maf > map's,maybe dull down fuel pressure or something??) does anyone have any > idea's on a conversion possible for the 3500,australian parts prefered > :-),from carbie to fi, Early (88-93(?)) commodores (VN,VP) used C3 computes with MAP load sense 93-now (VR,VS models) commodores use C4 computers, also with MAP. (Actually I'm not 100% certain about the current VS 'ecotec' using map) I sent a picture of the australianised 3800 engine to the GN (buick grand national) list a few years back & they all oohed and aahhed about it's configuration. Evidently the australian version is capable of mounting a turbo 700 auto (whereas the US ones could only use a lesser transmission). The intake manifold setup on the aus version is supposedly better (& looks cooler). As to the aus & us parts being interchangeable.. who knows? A manifold/throttle body assembly would only cost a hundred or so (maybe a bit more for the fuel rails, injectors & wiring). You could use a local P3 computer from a 3800 V6 to run the injection. (I originally looked into this to find out if a GN motor would fit into a VN commodore) The picture is at http://ni.umd.edu/gnttype/pictures/aus_3800.jpg (nb I only figured out after re-reading your question that you wanted to use 3800v6 parts on a 3500v8... doh!! I thought you mean aus V6 parts on a US v6) Cheers, Craig. ------------------------------ From: Jim Pearl Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 22:06:33 -0400 Subject: H*LP needed understanding fuel\ignition curve dynamics I've got some tough (IMO) questions! Recently I've gotten the new version of DFI's software and it generates = fuel curves for you based upon max HP, torque, and the RPMs where they = occur. What I'd like to better understand is how torque and fuel relate along = with ignition. I've noticed that when I input a greater torque figure = that the "hump" in the curve appears to occur where the torque peaks - = not where HP occurs. Since this is a turbo application (5.0 Mustang) and = the software doesn't ask about forced induction I wonder if this = applications curve is close to being right. Should max fuel occur at max torque? What about ignition? should max = spark occur at light cruise? Peak torque? Currently my spark curve is a = mess with spark peaking about where I cruise. Some of the reading I've = done lately has made me wonder if this is a good idea - should an = efficient engine need much spark advance? Currently MPG isn't great but = it's getting better. I may be able to get my hands on the stock Mustangs = spark curves - should I emulate those (mostly) until I hit boost? I know this really isn't enough data for specific tips but what I really = want to understand better is when I should max spark and fuel. I may be = able to get hold of a Vericom to get closer to the correct HP and Torque = figures for the software. Even though the maps aren't perfect they're = much more linear than what I was using before and the car is running = much better - if you've got DFI, much recommended upgrade! Last but not least (sigh) anyone know which pin on the EEC-IV harness is = for the driver's side O2 signal? I currently can't run closed loop as my = signal is real flaky and I need to trace it back. TIA! ------------------------------ From: Craig Pugsley Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 13:42:02 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: Bosch Motronic Questions > > 1) I've been told that it is possible to lessen the spring force on the door > > of the Air Meter by moving the spring back a few notches, which may > I used a razor blade to cut through the glue/sealant that holds the > cover down; it was then quite easy to lever off. I eased the tension > back by 3 notches; just be careful to hold everything in place when > > Dr A. N. Bosch > Physiology Department/ Sports Science Institute > University of Cape Town Medical School With a name like that I'd be inclined to believe you even if it is a medical doctorate ;-) BTW, I saw a current model BMW 318i the other day and noticed that they are STILL using flap type AFMs!! Haven't BMW updated their systems in the last 10 years? (on the 4 cyl cars) - I read about the new siemens computer used in the BMW M3 the other day, sounds like a trick piece of technology. (Can't remember details, but it had several MB of rom and a custom processor of similar power to a mid range pentium -controls fuel, spark, (auto) trans, indepenant intake & exhaust cam phasing, traction control etc.) Cheers, Craig. ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.au Date: Mon, 24 Jun 96 12:14:06 Subject: Honda engine info Honda enthusiasts, Does anyone know which model CRX engine runs anti-clockwise ? I'm thinking of an engine replacement job on a rear engine car, and was enlightened by a fellow racer that he was sure one of the relatively new (fuel injected) CRX engines ran anti-clockwise, but did not know which model. He could be wrong, but if he's right, we're talking close to wheel stand material. Dan dzorde@xxx.au ------------------------------ From: jdennis@xxx.au Date: Mon, 24 Jun 96 13:59:18 Subject: Re: Honda engine info > Honda enthusiasts, > Does anyone know which model CRX engine runs anti-clockwise ? I'm > thinking of an engine replacement job on a rear engine car, and was > enlightened by a fellow racer that he was sure one of the > relatively new (fuel injected) CRX engines ran anti-clockwise, but > did not know which model. Note that the states never got the CRX engine with the DOHC layout like Australia did in the previous shape car. jdennis@xxx.au ------------------------------ From: David Ford Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 16:25:04 +0900 Subject: Re: Honda engine info At 12:14 24/06/96, you wrote: > > Honda enthusiasts, > > Does anyone know which model CRX engine runs anti-clockwise ? I'm > thinking of an engine replacement job on a rear engine car, and was > enlightened by a fellow racer that he was sure one of the relatively > new (fuel injected) CRX engines ran anti-clockwise, but did not know > which model. > > He could be wrong, but if he's right, we're talking close to wheel > stand material. > > > Dan dzorde@xxx.au All the vtec's run backwards, _____________________ Cheers, /|0 0| \ Dave,? /__\-/__________________\ TR7 v8 | |o| |o| | Adelaide, |=========================| South Australia, | ______________ | o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0______|____|____________|___|_____________0o0o0o0o0o0o ------------------------------ From: Michael Harris Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 00:46:31 -0700 Subject: MicroDynamics Dynorite EFI Hi. I have been offered a complete, used MicroDynamics Dynorite EFI system for $300. I am considering using this in my 1985 Alfa Romeo GTV6 - which currently uses stock Bosch LH Jetronic FI. This setup will allow me to discard the air flow sensor and will provide "on-the-fly" adjustment through 4 cockpit mounted knobs. If anyone on this list is familiar with this setup and can advise me on whether or not this is a good system (and good idea to do this conversion), please let me know. I am concerned about losing the reliability of the Bosch system - but the prospect of more Hp is quite appealing! Thanks again for any advice MIKE ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #177 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".