DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, 2 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 186 In this issue: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) Re: 280ZX ECU in '78 BMW RE: Bosch Motronic AFM => Point - Counterpoint intake runner length Re: GN Mail List RE: 6811 Disassembler... Re: intake runner length New boy Re: New boy [none] [none] [none] See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jsg (John S Gwynne) Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 06:10:07 -0400 Subject: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) This message is post monthly as a reminder of the available list services. For help: Send "help" to Majordomo@xxx. To post: Send to "[list name]@xxx.edu" To subscribe: Send to Majordomo@xxx.edu subscribe [list name] [your email address *only* if different than your "From" address] To unsubscribe: Send to Majordomo@xxx.edu unsubscribe [list name] [your *registered* email address if different than your "From" address] The archive to each mailing list is available through the following sources: 1) WWW. http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 2) ftp. ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 3) Majordomo. Send "index [list name]" to Majordomo@xxx. You will find a file "archive_date_index" whose contents show the period covered by each of the archive files "archive_num_*". Digest mode is available for each mailing list. Send "lists" to Majordomo for a listing a mailing lists served. To switch to the digest mode, unsubscribe from the regular list and then subscribe to the digest version (i.e., diy_efi-digest). WWW sites: archive http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ diy_efi http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~fridman/diy_efi efi332 http://www.cim.swin.edu.au/~aden/web-docs/efi332/332_index.html Other related sites: http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling/ http://spbted.gtri.gatech.edu:80/hpe/hpe.html Please send information to be added to this posting to jsg@xxx. John ------------------------------ From: "Josh Karnes" Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 08:09:58 +0000 Subject: Re: 280ZX ECU in '78 BMW > At 11:51 AM 6/25/96 +0000, you wrote: > >As far as the suggestion to just ditch the thermal reactors and > >adjust the car to run lean, the main problem with this is that for > >me, this is very expensive. Old manifolds are not cheap. I'd > >havve to have a headpipe made and installed at a muffler shop, and > >swap out all the parts, etc., not worth it, especially if I can > >diisable the hot-function of the thermal reactors by denying them > >air and unburnt fuel. > > Surely someone makes a 4 into 1 or 4-2-1 (tri-y) tube header for the > Beemer. This would solve your thermal reactor problem, give you more > horsepower by improving exhaust flow (which may also help your > overrich condition a bit), and give your beemer the equivalent of a > liposuction, losing 100 pounds of ugly cast iron fat overnite. > Well, this is a 6cyl BMW. If it were a 2002 or a 320i I would have no trouble getting an affordable header. However the headers that are available for the sixes generally specialized and very pricey. Try $500+. This, of course, was my first thought as well. The parts for this car are so extremely expensive, however, that I must determine a way to make it work with the parts I have. BTW, I tightened the AFM spring two notches (this one is so much easier to work with than the Nissan units :), and I set the jumper for high-altitude which should lean it a bit. After checking the plugs to see the conditions of the car's mixture from before these changes, it appeared that the mix was pretty close. The deposits, although extremely heavy, were tan. Thanks for the advice. _____________________________________________________________________________ Josh Karnes joshk@xxx.com Renaissance Man http://www.tanisys.com/~joshk/home.htm Tanisys Technology http://www.tanisys.com Austin, Texas '78 BMW 530i | '72 Datsun 240Z | IZCC #308 _____________________________________________________________________________ *** opinions expressed herein are MINE, ALL MINE!! *** ------------------------------ From: WERNER_HAUSSMANN@xxx.com Date: Mon, 1 Jul 96 08:57:55 -0600 Subject: RE: Bosch Motronic AFM => Point - Counterpoint OK, the analogy to an accelerator pump was bad. Normally the EFI runs at near stoichiometric, when changing the trottle, the overshoot of the air meter and the rapid change in the air meter flap cause mixture enrichment closer to max torque and power for a short period of time. Is that right?? Help me get it right guys! Werner - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For the Bosch systems with the air meter, when changing the > trottle, the air meter will overshoot, the ECU will sense the rate > of change and provide an accelerator pump action. 'Loosening the spring' > will increase that accelerator pump action. That is kind of the intend of the > discussion. Accelerator pumps are evil necessities required by carburators. --Carter ummmm, close. it is needed by *all* wet flow intake manifolds. throttle body injectors (like holly's metered leak) need compensation for the change in the ability of the air to hold the fuel particles in suspension on a throttle transient. the exact physics have escaped my brain (it *is* after 5pm on a friday, ya know :) later, kc ------------------------------ From: "Josh Karnes" Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 10:09:38 +0000 Subject: intake runner length what is the effect of the runner length on the intake manifold? In my car there is the head, then there are some little runners about 2" long wherein the injectors are mounted, then attached to those runners are some long (like a foot) "U" shaped runners that curve up so right above the cam cover it connects to the intake plenum, throttle, etc. What I have considered doing is somehow relocating the intake plenum over to the intake side of the engine, since currently all the intake plumbing sits right on top of the exhaust manifold where lots of hot air is while the car is idling (in traffic, causes it to run really rough after idling in traffic, stall, etc.). However, if I fabricate runners that are as long as the stock runners, like a foot or more, it won't fit under the hood. So what will the effect be if I shorten these runners, or just bolt up the plenum right onto those little 2" runners (it looks like it'll bolt up). Thanks :) _____________________________________________________________________________ Josh Karnes joshk@xxx.com Renaissance Man http://www.tanisys.com/~joshk/home.htm Tanisys Technology http://www.tanisys.com Austin, Texas '78 BMW 530i | '72 Datsun 240Z | IZCC #308 _____________________________________________________________________________ *** opinions expressed herein are MINE, ALL MINE!! *** ------------------------------ From: Frank Parker Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 11:43:20 -0400 Subject: Re: GN Mail List Does anyone on this list know the subscribe address for the Buick GN/GNX turbo mail list?? Thanks in advance. Frank Parker ------------------------------ From: Peter Shoebridge Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 10:01:32 -0600 Subject: RE: 6811 Disassembler... - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB6734.48CEBFD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Please send me a copy of your dissassembler. Many thanks. Peter Shoebridge - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB6734.48CEBFD0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiIQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAZAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAYwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGRpeV9lZmlAY291bG9t Yi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUAU01UUABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUu ZWR1AAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAIwAAAGRpeV9lZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcu b2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAACUAAAAnZGl5X2VmaUBjb3Vs b21iLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdScAAAAAAgELMAEAAAAoAAAAU01UUDpESVlfRUZJQENPVUxP TUIuRU5HLk9ISU8tU1RBVEUuRURVAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAC2k0B BIABABkAAABSRTogNjgxMSBEaXNhc3NlbWJsZXIuLi4ASQcBBYADAA4AAADMBwcAAQAKAAEAIAAB AAcBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcHAAEACgABAAAAAQDnAAEJgAEAIQAAAEFDODUzQjJCNTdEMENGMTFCMzk0 MDBBQTAwMzg1Qjg1ABgHAQOQBgA8AgAAFAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAA AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkA8P+DkmZnuwEeAHAAAQAAABkAAABSRTogNjgxMSBEaXNhc3NlbWJsZXIu Li4AAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbtnZpJ5KzuFrdBXEc+zlACqADhbhQAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01U UAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABMAAABwZXRlckBhc3BlbnJlcy5jb20AAAMABhALDc0aAwAHEEAAAAAeAAgQ AQAAAEEAAABISSxQTEVBU0VTRU5ETUVBQ09QWU9GWU9VUkRJU1NBU1NFTUJMRVJNQU5ZVEhBTktT UEVURVJTSE9FQlJJREdFAAAAAAIBCRABAAAA1AAAANAAAAB0AQAATFpGdX+An3//AAoBDwIVAqQD 5AXrAoMAUBMDVAIAY2gKwHNldO4yBgAGwwKDMgPGBxMCgyIzD3poZWwDIERsumcCgH0KgAjPCdk7 Fm94MjU1AoAKgQ2xC2Bu8GcxMDMUIAsKEvIMAYpjAEAgCoVIaSwKhaEKhVBsZWER8CAR8IhuZCAH gCBhIAWggHB5IG9mIHkIYXwgZAQBHQAR8AbQHOByWi4b/E0AcB4QdBHAbnRrcx+NUBIABJAU0W/E ZWIFEGRnZRv8FZECACQwAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzAwYll/Zme7AUAACDAwYll/Zme7AR4A PQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AACfgA== - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB6734.48CEBFD0-- ------------------------------ From: tom sparks Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 11:58:13 -0500 Subject: Re: intake runner length One effect will be the shifting of the torque curve upward. It will probably reduce low speed torque to benefit high speed torque. Probably at a higher speed than is really useful or possible. It will likely affect gas mileage too. Since this is a factory engineered dimension there was most likely a good reason for it. It would probably be a better idea to construct a heat shield and provide some ducting with a fan of some sort. 1982 Accords had the same problem and the factory provided just such a fix. I heard it worked. I could probably use it on mine but Honda doesn't sell it anymore. If it is a cooling problem, fix the cooling problem, don't mess with everything else. That's my $00.02. Hope it helps. Best regards, Thomas Sparks At 10:09 7/1/96 +0000, you wrote: >what is the effect of the runner length on the intake manifold? In >my car there is the head, then there are some little runners about 2" >long wherein the injectors are mounted, then attached to those >runners are some long (like a foot) "U" shaped runners that curve up >so right above the cam cover it connects to the intake plenum, >throttle, etc. > >What I have considered doing is somehow relocating the intake plenum >over to the intake side of the engine, since currently all the intake >plumbing sits right on top of the exhaust manifold where lots of hot >air is while the car is idling (in traffic, causes it to run really >rough after idling in traffic, stall, etc.). However, if I >fabricate runners that are as long as the stock runners, like a foot >or more, it won't fit under the hood. > >So what will the effect be if I shorten these runners, or just bolt >up the plenum right onto those little 2" runners (it looks like it'll >bolt up). > >Thanks :) >_____________________________________________________________________________ >Josh Karnes joshk@xxx.com >Renaissance Man http://www.tanisys.com/~joshk/home.htm >Tanisys Technology http://www.tanisys.com >Austin, Texas '78 BMW 530i | '72 Datsun 240Z | IZCC #308 >_____________________________________________________________________________ > *** opinions expressed herein are MINE, ALL MINE!! *** > > ------------------------------ From: Jonathan Lloyd Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 18:33:03 +0100 Subject: New boy Ime lurking and learning. Ime a mechanical engineer with an interest in cars and learning electronics just as fast as I can. I homed in via the WWW page on a search for info about the Ford EECIV. Ive put a newish Ford 2.9 V6 MPI into my old Reliant (British so most will not have heard of them). all installed OK so now I move on to try and understand what the system is doing. If I find out I'll let you know. Thought I would start with a "simple" project and try a mod to: 1. mount a variable resistor on the dash 2. get the ECU to read the voltage prior to starting 3. if within programmed limit carry on as normal 4. if outside then start up and run normal for 2 mins then stop. Guess I need to: 1. find some spare coding space in the chip 2. find the code formats 3. find a "start/run" voltage to switch the dash volt into the MAF sensor .... could use rev counter volts??? and set MAF to 1v ?? to get it going? Not got very far yet other than a spare ECU mounted on the bench with a settable voltage to feed to each input. Having a bit of trouble with the PIP signal having programmed a PC printer port (2 bits) to give a 0v, 9v or 12v (which seems to be the volts on the car when running). It is not clear to me what identifies cylinder 1, and the timing of the 12 to 9 drop. The "How to tune Ford" suggests the SPOUT is the same as PIP at idle but mine sure is not. Any clues most appreciated - -- Jonathan Lloyd ------------------------------ From: "Brian Warburton, c/o Turbo Systems Ltd" Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 23:33:48 Subject: Re: New boy >is not clear to me what identifies cylinder 1, and the timing of the 12 >to 9 drop. The "How to tune Ford" suggests the SPOUT is the same as PIP >at idle but mine sure is not. Any clues most appreciated >-- >Jonathan Lloyd > For what its worth, I seem to remember that the 2.9V6 ran with signature PIP not ordinary PIP, i.e. one of the six "teeth" was a different width to the rest and so allowed cyl-1 to be identified. Removing the distributer cap might resolve the problem, I'm certain at least the early models if not all of them had the CPS timing disc mounted in there ... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Brian Warburton, "Still searching for the perfect curve....." email: bwarb@xxx.net Advanced Automotive Electronics Ltd, Van-Nuys House, Scotlands Drive, Farnham Common, England. SL2-3ES ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: daemon (daemons) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 01:34:14 GMT Subject: [none] ------------------------------ From: daemon (daemons) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 02:49:09 GMT Subject: [none] ------------------------------ From: daemon (daemons) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 03:44:27 GMT Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #186 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".