DIY_EFI Digest Monday, 29 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 214 In this issue: OBD-II toothed wheels for crankshaft position sensing Rock apes and Elecrromotive Re: OBD-II toothed wheels for crankshaft position sensing Re: OBD-II toothed wheels for crankshaft position sensing Re: OBD-II toothed wheels for crankshaft position sensing Re: OBD-II toothed wheels for crankshaft position sensing [admin] new list-owner See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Fisher Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 15:09:13 -0700 Subject: OBD-II toothed wheels for crankshaft position sensing >What kind of engine are you running? If the crankshaft you have is >still in production for '96 you're in luck. With OBD-II most OEMs >use crankshaft position sensors for the misfire detection. You could >just get these pieces as spare parts. OBD-II came in '96. Markus, Thanks. I'm adapting a home brew system to a 1992 5 Liter Ford Mustang engine. I'll look around and find out if Ford has a crankshaft position sensor for their 5 or 5.8 Liter engines. Does anyone know if they do?? - -Jeff Fisher ------------------------------ From: talltom Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 13:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Rock apes and Elecrromotive >From: Fred Miranda >Being a race car builder does not make someone a qualified stereo >installer. Installing an aftermarket efi system doesn't require much more >skill than doing a high end stereo install. Many mechanics couldn't >properly install a stereo, so how could one expect them to do an efi >system? Well I've never met anything that I'd call a mechanic that couldn't install a stereo. Personally about the highest end one I've monkeyed with was on a v-12 jag that had 6-8 speakers if i remember right. And it's still working fine, I didn't have instructions, and I didn't burn it up either. >As far as getting one going, all it takes is some common sense and >patience. Which any mechanic that's any good has, if the desire is there. >> I've also heard from many diferent sources that even if you >>get them to work initially(no small challenge) the longevity is >>frequently less than 2 yrs. >> So folks, this guy should show you how bad you can be and still >>be successful in this field. > >Based on your experience, who in the field offers better value,reliability >and ease of installation/tuning? This is the only outfit I've heard anything I'd call justifyable complaints about. I have some reservedness about a couple of others based on past performance of other products, but nothing specific. >> From what I hear when he shows up at the specialty equip. >>manufacturers assn. people gang up on him to argue. > >This doesn't surprise me, due to their lack of tact on the phone, but >it is probably just those incompetents that shouldn't have bought the >system in the first place. > >Fred Well you can call it incompetance if you like, but the same person has successfully installed many other electronic control systems without problems. As far as the people who shouldn't have bought the system in the first place, it would seem to me that the object of the system is to save people the time, effort, and knowledge necessary to build their own from scratch, and the closer it comes to the goal of being plug and play, the wider market segment it will appeal to. Being as I doubt they do this for exercise it wouldn't seem unfathomable that they might attempt to make it user friendly to serve their own pocket book. ------------------------------ From: "Tony Bryant" Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:28:29 +1200 Subject: Re: OBD-II toothed wheels for crankshaft position sensing > >What kind of engine are you running? If the crankshaft you have is > >still in production for '96 you're in luck. With OBD-II most OEMs > >use crankshaft position sensors for the misfire detection. You could > >just get these pieces as spare parts. OBD-II came in '96. > > > Markus, > > Thanks. I'm adapting a home brew system to a 1992 5 Liter Ford Mustang > engine. I'll look around and find out if Ford has a crankshaft position > sensor for their 5 or 5.8 Liter engines. Does anyone know if they do?? > > -Jeff Fisher > Why everybodies obsession with external 58 toothed wheels?, you do realise that you already have a 120 odd tooth wheel already bolted to the back of the engine?. (Yes, I do realise you also need a TDC reference) *********************************************************** * There'll be no more misery * I came, I saw, I left * * When the world's our rotisserie * > bryantt@xxx.nz < * *********************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Sandy Ganz Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 16:00:55 -0700 Subject: Re: OBD-II toothed wheels for crankshaft position sensing > Why everybodies obsession with external 58 toothed wheels?, you do > realise that you already have a 120 odd tooth wheel already bolted to > the back of the engine?. (Yes, I do realise you also need a TDC reference) A couple of reasons, one is what happens as a tooth gets ground down by the starter. This has happed to a couple of cars that the starter went south on. Also each system would then have to maintain a different setting for each tooth count, i.e., Chevy (small and large flywheel), fords, dodges, 4 cyls, etc. Lastly, the frequency of interrupts from the flywheel would be around 2 times that of the 58 tooth part (I don't think this would be a big problem however). I don't think that the 58 tooth wheel is anything magical, other then I has been used on some production cars (BMW's I think). Look at what GM uses on some of it's SFI. The old SSI chip could support a vareity of wheel types, even with different spaceing between the teeth to provide faster position identification Also if we are using the 58 tooth wheel (really 60) we have a reference location that we can still use even if we lose the TDC reference. I think that electromotive uses this as the basis for their system. I'm not sure what they use for their 'sequential' FI. Just some ramblings ;-) Sandy ------------------------------ From: "Stuart Woolford" Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:05:24 +1100 Subject: Re: OBD-II toothed wheels for crankshaft position sensing > > Why everybodies obsession with external 58 toothed wheels?, you do > > realise that you already have a 120 odd tooth wheel already bolted to > > the back of the engine?. (Yes, I do realise you also need a TDC reference) > > A couple of reasons, one is what happens as a tooth gets ground > down by the starter. This has happed to a couple of cars that > the starter went south on. Also each system would then have to the software could (should?) *easily* spot this (even under cranking) and warn of this bad situation (which should be fixed for more reasons than EFI..) - a bonus?? > maintain a different setting for each tooth count, i.e., Chevy again, with a seperate TDC sensor, this could be calibrated on first-crank.. (but we all know that, right?) > (small and large flywheel), fords, dodges, 4 cyls, etc. Lastly, > the frequency of interrupts from the flywheel would be > around 2 times that of the 58 tooth part (I don't think this > would be a big problem however). so long as it is allowed for in the design.. > Also if we are using the 58 tooth wheel (really 60) we have a > reference location that we can still use even if we lose the TDC > reference. I think that electromotive uses this as the basis for > their system. I'm not sure what they use for their 'sequential' > FI. now this is useful, but reasonably easy to add to a starter-gear system (with a little non-invasive modification) > Just some ramblings ;-) same here ;) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Stuart Woolford, stuart@xxx.nz >>>>In VI Where Available<<<< - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: KMJMS@xxx.com Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 21:41:16 -0400 Subject: Re: OBD-II toothed wheels for crankshaft position sensing fomoco went to a dis system for the 5.0 engine in the explorer it uses what they call 36-1 toothed wheel kirk ------------------------------ From: "Johnny" Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 22:35:55 -0700 Subject: [admin] new list-owner Howdy, I will be sitting in for John S Gwynne as list administrator during his absence for both the efi332 and diy_efi mailing lists. The transition should be seamless and would hopefully go undetected with the exception of this announcement. Everything same as before. (OK, you can go back to whatever it was that you were doing) John Lindgren "Johnny" allnight@xxx.net ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #214 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".