DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 9 August 1996 Volume 01 : Number 225 In this issue: Opal Fuel Injection Components Street Power magazine Re: more musings on EFI controllers Re: more musings on EFI controllers Re: more musings on EFI controllers Re: Street Power Mag Article Re: more musings on EFI controllers Re: more musings on EFI controllers PRICES Oh My God Re: PRICES Oh My God Re: more musings on EFI controllers Re: more musings on EFI controllers Eprom Security Board "Dropping" resistors ?? Re: Eprom Security Board See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brewer@xxx.com (John Brewer) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 06:59:05 -0500 Subject: Opal Fuel Injection Components A friend asked me to make this post: He is looking for EFI components for the Opal 2L or 2.2L engines. Either parts or sources for parts- thanks. John Brewer "Any man who would trade liberty for security deserves neither." - Ben Franklin ------------------------------ From: Jody Shapiro Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 10:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Street Power magazine In the "current issue" (or is it a single-issue type of thing??) of "Street Power" magazine there's an article titled, "The Forced Induction Factor - The dynamics of turbos, superchargers, and nitrous revealed." The article is by Jeff Hartman who wrote the book "Fuel Injection: Installation, Performance Tuning, Modifications" that's on the EFI reading-list. Although he doesn't talk too much about fuel injection per-se in the article, he does provide some good technical info on the above-mentioned power-adders. Jeff also wrote another technical article in the magazine, "Power Ignitions - From coils to spark plugs, everything you need to know about performance ignitions." Some of this material is probably too basic for most of the people on here, but it's decent info for those getting up to speed. FWIW, Jeff mentions that he'll have a new book out this summer called "High Performance Fuels and Lubricants". - -Jody - --- http://www.token.net/~jshapiro/ ------------------------------ From: Todd Knighton Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 09:47:38 -0700 Subject: Re: more musings on EFI controllers Paul E. Campbell wrote: > > Temperature sensors are around $5. TPS sensors are $5 and usually come > with the throttle body. I'd like to see these, the sensors from Bosch that are specifically for automotive use run around $35.00 for Temp sensors and $45.00 for Throttle position sensors. Are these $5.00 sensors Radio Shack potentiometers and just thermistors or what? Todd Knighton Protomotive Engineering ------------------------------ From: Jody Shapiro Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 14:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: more musings on EFI controllers > Todd Knighton > Protomotive Engineering I just put 2 and 2 together and realized that you're the engine-builder for the 560hp 3.3L twin-turbo Porsche 930 that's featured in that Street Performance magazine. Nice job! Care to share any experiences in setting up that engine? - -Jody - --- http://www.token.net/~jshapiro/ ------------------------------ From: Sandy Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 12:31:58 -0700 Subject: Re: more musings on EFI controllers I got some from the neighborhood auto parts store, and some from MSD. The all look like the regular simple brass temp sensors that we have all seen. Seem to work OK too. I think from MSD they were $14 with connector, but I cant remember. Sandy Bruce - Thanks for the refresher on the great stuff on your site!! At 09:47 AM 8/8/96 -0700, you wrote: >Paul E. Campbell wrote: >> >> Temperature sensors are around $5. TPS sensors are $5 and usually come >> with the throttle body. > > >I'd like to see these, the sensors from Bosch that are specifically for >automotive use run around $35.00 for Temp sensors and $45.00 for >Throttle position sensors. Are these $5.00 sensors Radio Shack >potentiometers and just thermistors or what? > >Todd Knighton >Protomotive Engineering > > ------------------------------ From: Todd Knighton Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 14:12:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Street Power Mag Article Jody, Such as? Todd Knighton Protomotive Engineering Jody Shapiro wrote: > I just put 2 and 2 together and realized that you're the engine-builder > for the 560hp 3.3L twin-turbo Porsche 930 that's featured in that Street > Performance magazine. Nice job! Care to share any experiences in > setting up that engine? ------------------------------ From: peter paul fenske Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 13:56:47 -0700 Subject: Re: more musings on EFI controllers At 09:58 PM 8/7/96 -0500, you wrote: >Robert Van Zant wrote: > Sounds good, but I'm still looking for the hole to plug my one | >> must-have item into. Limp Home Mode. For my particular application, | >> LHM is crucial to the point that I've been dreaming up digital-over- | >> bob | > | >yeah, digital is the only way to >go_____________________________________________| >that is if you know what you are doing. ANYTHING that can be >controlled, can do with digital. Analog is too touchy and needs TLC, >give me digital, on, off and ADC. > Hi Guys Take a lesson from GM. They use a reduntant fuel controller chip which takes over when the digital part of the cct. fails. This is a LSI analog chip. Calibrations are via resistor packs. Same could be done for DIY via headers with resistors. A simple cct would be a divide by four for ignition used to fire a pulse width mod like the TL494. Op amps would set the Pw with a input of TPS for load and CTC for temp correction. Outputs are shared with digital via diode or gates. Distributer is put into direct mode or default. This gives fixed timing. Quite a simple cct since for LHM you are not interested in closed loop operation. Well tats my 2 cents Have fun guys:peter ------------------------------ From: "Tony Bryant" Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 11:35:52 +1200 Subject: Re: more musings on EFI controllers > > Sounds good, but I'm still looking for the hole to plug my one | > >> must-have item into. Limp Home Mode. For my particular application, | > >> LHM is crucial to the point that I've been dreaming up digital-over- | > >> bob | > > | > >yeah, digital is the only way to > >go_____________________________________________| > >that is if you know what you are doing. ANYTHING that can be > >controlled, can do with digital. Analog is too touchy and needs TLC, > >give me digital, on, off and ADC. > > > Hi Guys > Take a lesson from GM. They use a reduntant fuel controller chip which > takes over when the digital part of the cct. fails. > This is a LSI analog chip. Calibrations are via resistor packs. IMHO, its not the brains that will fail, its the connections to and inside the sensors and actuators. A Limp home mode is useful, whereby the system can get by without any one sensor, e.g revert to an Alpha-N system if the map sensor fails, or revert to simulatenous injection if a crank angle sensor fails, or revert to open loop, etc, etc, etc. remember >95% of electronics problems are broken or intermittant connections. BTW, what are people using for TP Sensors? (US Specific suppliers are not useful to me, for obvious reasons). How bad is using a good quality carbon track pot? *********************************************************** * There'll be no more misery * I came, I saw, I left * * When the world's our rotisserie * > bryantt@xxx.nz < * *********************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Doug Robson Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 10:58:38 +1100 Subject: PRICES Oh My God Todd Knighton wrote: > > Paul E. Campbell wrote: > > > > Temperature sensors are around $5. TPS sensors are $5 and usually come > > with the throttle body. > > I'd like to see these, the sensors from Bosch that are specifically for > automotive use run around $35.00 for Temp sensors and $45.00 for > Throttle position sensors. Are these $5.00 sensors Radio Shack > potentiometers and just thermistors or what? > > Todd Knighton > Protomotive Engineering a TPS in OZ that we use for racing is a ford unit and the cheapest i can get them is $125 AUD ($100 USD). You guys are very fortunate. - -- |===============================================================| | When I die, | | I want to go in my sleep, like my grandfather, | | not screaming like the passengers in his car. | |---------------------------------------------------------------| | Doug Robson mailto:doug@xxx.au | | Sydney, Australia http://www.cia.com.au/doug | |---------------------------------------------------------------| | Club Car Racing Register of NSW | Thank God | | 1992/93 Under 2 litre State Champion | for | | http://www.cia.com.au/doug/ccrrnsw.html | Gravity | |===============================================================| ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.au Date: Fri, 09 Aug 96 10:26:44 Subject: Re: PRICES Oh My God I paid $130 for the original TPS for the GM TPI system (in Perth), and that was at a reasonable drop in price. Dan dzorde@xxx.au ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: PRICES Oh My God Author: diy_efi@xxx.edu at INTERNET Date: 8/9/96 9:52 AM Todd Knighton wrote: > > Paul E. Campbell wrote: > > > > Temperature sensors are around $5. TPS sensors are $5 and usually come > > with the throttle body. > > I'd like to see these, the sensors from Bosch that are specifically for > automotive use run around $35.00 for Temp sensors and $45.00 for > Throttle position sensors. Are these $5.00 sensors Radio Shack > potentiometers and just thermistors or what? > > Todd Knighton > Protomotive Engineering a TPS in OZ that we use for racing is a ford unit and the cheapest i can get them is $125 AUD ($100 USD). You guys are very fortunate. - -- |===============================================================| | When I die, | | I want to go in my sleep, like my grandfather, | | not screaming like the passengers in his car. | |---------------------------------------------------------------| | Doug Robson mailto:doug@xxx.au | | Sydney, Australia http://www.cia.com.au/doug | |---------------------------------------------------------------| | Club Car Racing Register of NSW | Thank God | | 1992/93 Under 2 litre State Champion | for | | http://www.cia.com.au/doug/ccrrnsw.html | Gravity | |===============================================================| ------------------------------ From: Todd Knighton Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 19:20:36 -0700 Subject: Re: more musings on EFI controllers Sandy, The "regular simple brass temp sensors" tend to work well for coolant temp sensors though for Inlet Air Temp they tend to be too slow. Especially on turbocharged or supercharged applications where you will see radical changes in air temp over a short period of time. But thanks for the feedback. Todd Knighton Protomotive Engineering. Sandy wrote: > > I got some from the neighborhood auto parts store, and some from MSD. The > all look like the regular simple brass temp sensors that we have all seen. > Seem to work OK too. I think from MSD they were $14 with connector, but I > cant remember. > ------------------------------ From: Todd Knighton Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 19:34:15 -0700 Subject: Re: more musings on EFI controllers Tony, JGM Automotive Tooling, AKA Motec, sells a CW or CCW TPS that utilizes a 3 pin Bosch connector with a D-Drive type drive. Motec Systems USA Phone: (714) 897-6804 Fax: (714) 897-8782 5692 Buckingham Dr. Huntington Beach, CA 92649 Haltech sells a unit that looks an awful lot like a Chevy TPS but not quite. Engine Management Technology Inc. Dallas Texas Phone: (214) 831-9800 Fax: (214) 831-9802 Or you could always go to the dealers. Ford and GM have their own, while almost all the European cars use some type of Bosch Unit. Tony Bryant wrote: > > BTW, what are people using for TP Sensors? (US Specific suppliers are > not useful to me, for obvious reasons). How bad is using a good > quality carbon track pot? > ------------------------------ From: Todd Knighton Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 20:02:35 -0700 Subject: Eprom Security Board To All, Has anyone seen the little board that Superchips, Autothority, and Tech Art are selling with their "Encripted" Eproms. It has a little PIC16 on the bottom of the board. It plugs into the Eprom Socket then the Eprom into it. It makes the Eproms unreadable in a standard reader, but it is transparent to the MCU. We are looking for such a device. If anyone knows where to get these or has any ideas, please respond. Todd Knighton Protomotive Engineering Email: knighton@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: lambs@xxx.au (Stephen Lamb) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 13:49:44 +1000 Subject: "Dropping" resistors ?? A friend of mine appears to have blown the "dropping" resistor assembly on the (stock) injector system of an FJ20 (in a Datsun 1600). Nissan don't want to know him, and he's having trouble finding a replacement (the FJ20 was an imported performance engine). >From what I've been able to find out about these things, they are simply a bunch of heavy duty resistors in-line to the injectors. All the manuals I've read on the Nissan version of the L-Jetronic system suggest that each resistor should be about 6 ohm. My question is: Could I simply make a substitute by wiring in a bunch of 6 ohm, 5W wire-wound resistors, or is there some other magical property to this device ?? TIA PS: Are there any suppliers for these items in the States ?? Stephen Lamb Dept. of Defence DSTO, AMRL 506 Lorimer Street Fishermans Bend VIC 3207 Australia Tel: +61 3 9626 7525 Fax: +61 3 9626 7089 IZCC #180 ------------------------------ From: Land Shark Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 23:45:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Eprom Security Board At 20:02 8/8/96 -0700, you wrote: >To All, > Has anyone seen the little board that Superchips, Autothority, and Tech >Art are selling with their "Encripted" Eproms. It has a little PIC16 on >the bottom of the board. It plugs into the Eprom Socket then the Eprom >into it. It makes the Eproms unreadable in a standard reader, but it is >transparent to the MCU. We are looking for such a device. If anyone >knows where to get these or has any ideas, please respond. Todd .. they are available from the folks at SuperChips for about $20 each they work based on timing .. An MCU accesses things MUCH faster than an EPROM reader .. hence the problem .. If you build a system with an 8051 that reads the EPROM and writes some RAM, you can completely bypass the thing .. Jim ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #225 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".