DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 16 August 1996 Volume 01 : Number 232 In this issue: Rovers engines Re: EGO sensors RE: Throttle Bodies - Cost Re: Setting mixture with Nitrous CD Ignition Re: Setting mixture with Nitrous Re: Setting mixture with Nitrous Re: Rovers engines Re: Eprom Security Board speaking of displays & DPM re: pressure measurements with piezoelectric transducer re: Leaded Fuel and Lambda Sensors 80552, Air core meter re: Electric vehicle Re: speaking of displays & DPM Re: Air core meter [none] re: Rover engines Re: 80552, Air core meter RE: Rovers engines RE: Eprom Security Board Heads Up Display See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Pitts Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:26:55 +-200 Subject: Rovers engines Just remember that the later SD1/EFI blocks had extra butressing round = the main bearings, (info from a friend who worked on the oil burning = version). So for our purposes (loads of horses? (i do hope we aint in = this for clean air only!)) the only lups to have are these later = blocks... Do look at the TVR engine modes tho' cos they got it up to 5 = litre (Grifith 500) with serious torque! OK.. now the boring stuff... I've been hanging arround this list for = ages, but not posting... here goes: I want to build a little diddy V8 out of two bike engines, possably GSXR = barrals and heads. The idea is to get the RPM up to 11-11.5 thou, in a = mildly turboed 2.2litre lump, and stick it in a light weight car.. kit = car like a Lotus 7 or such. Managment? I'm stil playing with the design of the hardware, but its = going to based on 68010. (Did I hear someone laugh at the back and = mutter 'overkill'?) Yea well... my coding sucks, so ill do the hardwork = by MIPs! Other stupid ideas...... Build a back yard dyno out of a truck axle..... (wait, hear me out on = this) Calibrate torqe by strain guaging the torqu tube between the diff casing = and the brake backplate. Use those enormous brake drums to regulate = RPM,(maybee with a hose on them to keep the drum coolish). Sounds silly, = but how much kinetic/potenetial energy will these things dispose of in a = fully laden dump truck going down a reasonably long hill??? Might not = run continuous, but I'll bet it would cope with 10 - 15 min run. Anybody interested in any of the above... drop me a line! Sax Fly with me, die with me, Fly Saxon Airlines! PS.. sorry about the state of this message, I'm reading my mail wrecked! ------------------------------ From: "Edward C. Hernandez" Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 09:19:42 -0400 Subject: Re: EGO sensors Todd King wrote: >Usual practice w/ the headers (which seem to hurt performance, BTW) is >to use a heated replacement sensor. > These can be had for about $25 from the General these days. A couple reasons headers may not have worked for you: 1) most aftermarket off the shelf headers aren't properly designed(primary lengths and diameters, collector volumes, etc). For many applications, they are better than stock because stock is so bad, but in your case, they weren't. Turbo Buicks are pretty nice motors, and perhaps they designed an excellent stock exh manifold. 2) don't know if stock Buick exh manifolds are cast iron, but if they were the exh gasses they pass to the turbo are hotter than exh gasses from uninsulated headers. Were yours wrapped? 3) path lengths from exh valve to turbo should be longer for headers than manifolds, exacerbating problem 2. Hey, can you give us a part number for the $25 GM HEGO? Dave Crocombe: Best power is made richer(say, 12.5:1) than stoich(14.7:1), not leaner(18:1 per your note). I doubt your brother actually ran this lean or you'd have given up drag racing by now, having blown every motor as you went througth the traps, particularly with nitrous. Ed Hernandez Ford Motor Company ehernan3@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: "Orin Harding" Date: Thu, 15 Aug 96 16:47:31 UT Subject: RE: Throttle Bodies - Cost Are these complete units, or adapter kits for existing Webers? Well, I don't know what you would call "complete units" so here is a general description: They are complete from the standpoint that it is a bare throttle body with (for example the twin IDF type) 2 bores, throttle plates & shaft, mounting pads for the throttle position sensor (BOSCH "D" style), drillings for the injectors (again BOSCH) and fuel rail with AN-4 or 6 (I don't remember) connections at each end of the rail. Mounting flanges have (in this example) standard Weber IDF dimensions. Hope this answers your question. ------------------------------ From: Todd King Date: Thu, 15 Aug 96 13:17:00 PDT Subject: Re: Setting mixture with Nitrous <<< From: David Crocombe Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:43:49 +1000 Subject: Setting Mixture with Nitrous *** What I've heard so far is that the oxygen sensors get ruined by the lead in leaded petrol; that maximum power (objective) is at a mixture of about 18:1 I think rather than the 14.7:1 for least emmissions. >>> Yes, lead will ruin them after a period of time. Max power is obtained around the 12.5:1 range (rich), at least for forced induction. <<< All sensors I've heard mentioned work around this 14.7 mark. Are there sensors for those of us who require maximum power regardless of emissions? >>> Granted, the typical sensor is intended primarily for a "binary" (high/low) type of application; but many people have demostrated that the sensor is still useful for setting WOT A/F. Most people shoot for a reading of 800-850mv at WOT, assuming the sensor is ready to go (warm, operating OK, etc.) Of course you must back up the readings with a best e.t. analysis as a drag racer... and this is from the Buick GN (ie turbocharged) camp; N20 or normally apirated might deviate a bit. <<< Any information or ideas would be most welcome. >>> I would suggest using the sensor with a) tanks of high octane unleaded for testing or b) go ahead and accept the loss of a few sensors and test with the leaded fuel. They aren't really that costly (Buick GN sensors are about $25 ea these days) and again, yes, I believe the EGO sensors can be very useful for setting your best power mixture. Read them with a circuit that has high input impedance. Todd Todd_King@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: John Dammeyer Date: Thu, 15 Aug 96 13:55 PDT Subject: CD Ignition Hi, Has anyone have an article on the theory or even a schematic of a Capacitive Discharge Ignition. In particular are they just stepping up battery voltage to about 300V and then switching that with a shorter dwell time or is there more to it? Got to be able to crank my Briggs&Stratton Lawnmower engine down to -40 degrees you know and at that temperature the batter is much less efficient. Thanks, John. Pioneers are the ones, face down in the mud, with arrows in their backs. Automation Artisans Inc. Ph. 604-544-4950 6468 Loganberry Place Fax 604-544-4954 Victoria BC CANADA V8Z 7E6 ------------------------------ From: Matthew Lamari Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:46:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Setting mixture with Nitrous Problem here is in OZ you can still get high octane leaded at the pump, whereas the same octane rating unleaded is unattainable. Also, Australia switched to unleaded much later, and one of the problems with using unleaded in the older cars (Besides compression and timing) is valve lubrication. Unless they had hardened alloy valve seats, a car built for leaded (up to 1985-ish) just cannot run on unleaded. And, in Australia, buick GN sensors aren't really that common. For sensors, you'd probably want to stick to one type of heated sensor (to fit it to exhaust easily). For example, if you wanted to use, say, a Falcon sensor, you'd either have to keep paying FoMoCo $100 Aus a pop, or find a plethora of trashed EAs. The lead situation is a real bummer for any sort of emissions/no-leanout-self-destruction feedback, either for hand or computer calibration. Anyone who knows a way to get a decent mixture feedback with leaded petrol, please let me know as well. Matthew. Matthew. At 01:17 PM 8/15/96 PDT, you wrote: > <<< > From: David Crocombe Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:43:49 +1000 > Subject: Setting Mixture with Nitrous > *** > What I've heard so far is that the oxygen sensors get ruined by the lead in > leaded petrol; that maximum power (objective) is at a mixture of about 18:1 I > think rather than the 14.7:1 for least emmissions. > >>> > > Yes, lead will ruin them after a period of time. Max power is obtained > around the 12.5:1 range (rich), at least for forced induction. > > <<< > All sensors I've heard mentioned work around this 14.7 mark. Are there sensors > for those of us who require maximum power regardless of emissions? > >>> > > Granted, the typical sensor is intended primarily for a "binary" (high/low) > type of application; but many people have demostrated that the sensor is still > useful for setting WOT A/F. Most people shoot for a reading of 800-850mv at > WOT, assuming the sensor is ready to go (warm, operating OK, etc.) Of > course you must back up the readings with a best e.t. analysis as a drag > racer... and this is from the Buick GN (ie turbocharged) camp; N20 or normally > apirated might deviate a bit. > > <<< Any information or ideas would be most welcome. >>> > > I would suggest using the sensor with a) tanks of high octane unleaded for > testing or b) go ahead and accept the loss of a few sensors and test with > the leaded fuel. They aren't really that costly (Buick GN sensors are about > $25 ea these days) and again, yes, I believe the EGO sensors can be very > useful for setting your best power mixture. Read them with a circuit that > has high input impedance. > > Todd Todd_King@xxx.com > > ------------------------------ From: "Tony Bryant" Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:13:28 +1200 Subject: Re: Setting mixture with Nitrous > The lead situation is a real bummer for any sort of > emissions/no-leanout-self-destruction feedback, either for hand or computer > calibration. > > Anyone who knows a way to get a decent mixture feedback with leaded petrol, > please let me know as well. > Just use an O2 sensor for calibration, and take it out for normal running. Or use the avaiation approach and measure exhaust gas temperature? *********************************************************** * There'll be no more misery * I came, I saw, I left * * When the world's our rotisserie * > bryantt@xxx.nz < * *********************************************************** ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 19:01:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Rovers engines At 01:26 PM 8/15/96 +-200, you wrote: >Other stupid ideas...... >Build a back yard dyno out of a truck axle..... (wait, hear me out on this) >Calibrate torqe by strain guaging the torqu tube between the diff casing and the brake backplate. Use those enormous brake drums to regulate RPM,(maybee with a hose on them to keep the drum coolish). Sounds silly, but how much kinetic/potenetial energy will these things dispose of in a fully laden dump truck going down a reasonably long hill??? Might not run continuous, but I'll bet it would cope with 10 - 15 min run. > >Anybody interested in any of the above... drop me a line! > >Sax I have thought about this too. My idea was to use a large water pump to load the engine. I would throttle the discharge of the pump to load the engine and measure the resulting torque. Since I work at a 760 mega watt power plant and have seen the effects of catastrophic power train failures, I'm not sure if I would have the nerve to go near a home built dyno loaded up with 300 hp @xxx."it's better to burn out than fade away....' GMD ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 19:26:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Eprom Security Board At 05:03 PM 8/9/96 -0700, you wrote: >.... Hmmm, let's see... How about electric motors >mounted in the hubs of each wheel that will not only be motors, but >regenerative brakes ... Let's put an onboard turbine engine to >generate power for these things so we have some acceleration,... Consider this, 4 off the shelf electric motors. Ridgidly mounted to chassis and connected to the wheel via cv joints. A battery pack per current electric vehicle standards, and one off the shelf small gas engine DC generators. I think you know where I'm going. Generator is sized to propell the car at 55mph, stand alone. Generator and battery pack combined might give you 0-60 in 3 seconds. Of course, all of this would require micro-processor control. Ok experts, what are the real world physical limits? Thanks, GMD ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 19:39:21 -0500 Subject: speaking of displays & DPM At 10:37 AM 8/1/96 -0500, you wrote: >>> A simple and effective indicator for O2 sensor is a DPM (digital >>> panel meter) from Hosfelt Electronics. It is $14.95, their part >>> number 39-165 (the part no. on the data says PM-128). It uses an >>> Intersil ICL7106 DMM chip with a fairly standard wiring. There is >>> one problem -- they have connected the supply voltage common with >>> the input common, which can cause ground loop problems I'd like to install a heads up display in a car. Several years ago I disected a LCD display and noticed that the silver background could be easily removed. To my surprise, the LCD was clear. Could a lap top computer LCD be used as a heads up display with the silver background removed? Does any company market such a device? Thanks, GMD ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 07:57:00 +0000 Subject: re: pressure measurements with piezoelectric transducer - -> John DeArmond, beloved former moderator of the hotrod list, once - -> predicted that measuring cylinder pressure would be the next "great - -> leap" in engine management. One of the Toyota models started doing that a year or so ago. Wait - my notes say '93 1.6L 4v four. Make that three years ago. The article was in Automotive Industries, but it didn't give the model or Toyota alphabet-soup engine designation. ====dave.williams@xxx.us========================DoD#978======= can you help me...help me get out of this place?...slow sedation... ain't my style, ain't my pace...giving me a number...NINE, SEVEN, EIGHT ==5.0 RX7 -> Tyrannosaurus RX! == SAE '82 == Denizens of Doom M/C '92== ------------------------------ From: RABBITT_Andrew@xxx.au Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:05:44 est Subject: re: Leaded Fuel and Lambda Sensors >Problem here is in OZ you can still get high octane leaded at the >pump, whereas the same octane rating unleaded is unattainable. PULP in Australia is (from memory) 96 octane, whereas leaded has been reduced to 95, therefore you should be able to run with PULP, at least for tuning with an O2 sensor >Unless they had hardened alloy valve seats, a car built for leaded >(up to 1985-ish) just cannot run on unleaded. Valve seat recession is a long term problem, and it certainly doesn't preclude the use of ULP in pre-ULP engines. It depends on what you want to acheive. ------------------------------ From: Stuart Baly Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 12:52:20 EST Subject: 80552, Air core meter Can anyone comment on their experiences with using an 80552 as the basis of an ECU? Does anyone know where I can get my hands on an 80552 based SBC, preferably with external EPROM and RAM and access to the high speed outputs? I checked out HiTech's offering, and Micro Control and Diagnostics's page on the Web, and was wondering if there were more. I've tried routing my own, and have nearly finished it, but being a single sided board, it's an absolute dog's breakfast of jumper wires, and I wouldn't trust the end product to get me to the pub, let alone be regarded as reliable transport. In an old Philips 8051 databook I have, it describes a meter movement called an air core meter - two coils are fixed at right angles to each other, and a permanent magnet moves the needle. To move the needle to a desired angle, the coil currents are set so that one coil current is proportional to the sine of the required angle, and the other is the cosine. The big question is, are there any cars available in Australia (or more to the point, in Australian wrecking yards) which use this movement? It looks like a fun thing to play with. ------------------------------ From: Ryan Minnig Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 22:38:31 -0500 Subject: re: Electric vehicle George M. Dailey wrote: > > At 05:03 PM 8/9/96 -0700, you wrote: > >.... Hmmm, let's see... How about electric motors > >mounted in the hubs of each wheel that will not only be motors, but > >regenerative brakes ... Let's put an onboard turbine engine to > >generate power for these things so we have some acceleration,... > > Consider this, 4 off the shelf electric motors. Ridgidly mounted to chassis > and connected to the wheel via cv joints. A battery pack per current > electric vehicle standards, and one off the shelf small gas engine DC > generators. I think you know where I'm going. Generator is sized to propell > the car at 55mph, stand alone. Generator and battery pack combined might > give you 0-60 in 3 seconds. Of course, all of this would require > micro-processor control. Ok experts, what are the real world physical limits? > > Thanks, GMD I can speak from experience with electric vehicles. I was the electrical man for TWO solar electric vehicles for Mankato State Univ, in MN for Sunrayce '93 and Sunrayce '95 respectively. Battery technology sucks. So does Solar power. The most affordable photovoltaics per energy output cost ~$5000 for 8m^2 which produces 1KW of electric energy, not good only about 12-14% of the energy hitting the earth from the sun. Anyway on to your question. Since batteries suck, the only affordable batteries are lead-acid which are heavy and have a very low energy density, the most reasonable thing to do is just build a car that uses a 5hp gas motor. Sure electric is very clean, but performance is terrible. Consider this, if you run a gas motor to charge the batteries and run the electric motor you only get about 75% of the energy that the gas motor outputs. Try to follow me. Gas --> output to shaft. 100% -2% from mechanical resistance =98% Gas --> Generator --> Electric motor --> output to shaft. 100% -5% elec. resistance -5% elec. resistance -2% from mech. resistance =88% Gas --> Generator --> Battery sotrage --> Electric motor --> output to shaft. 100% -5% elec. resist. -25% chemical resist. -5% elec. resist. - -2% mech. =63% In each instance follow the path that the power has to change states. Remember NOTHING is 100% efficient. Even if the motor and generator were made form superconducting wire, there is resistance from the contact points and very very very small ohmic resistance in the wire. Even just using a belt or chain drive loses about 1-5% due to friction in the chain or belt. We will eventually have to use someithing other than fossil fuels, but the technology has to come a long way. We still have a lot to do with gas engines. With all the refinements made to engines we only get about twice the gas mileage as compared to a Model A FORD. I don' mean at all to shoot your idea down, I think it is great that someone else is interested in doing something innovative, these are just some of my experiences and the hurdles to overcome. Any other thoughts?? -Ryan ------------------------------ From: Ryan Minnig Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 22:48:24 -0500 Subject: Re: speaking of displays & DPM George M. Dailey wrote: > > I'd like to install a heads up display in a car. Several years ago I > disected a LCD display and noticed that the silver background could be > easily removed. To my surprise, the LCD was clear. Could a lap top > computer LCD be used as a heads up display with the silver background > removed? Does any company market such a device? > > Thanks, GMD This might work but I think that silver background is a polarizing filter. You might need a translucent polarizing filter behind the LCD to be able to view anything. The next best thing would be to find an old laptop computer 8088 or 80286 with CCFL or EL backlighting. Or, you can find such panels from places like All Electronics Corp. http://www.allcorp.com/ or Electronic Goldmine ( I'll have to look for this one) Ryan. ------------------------------ From: peter paul fenske Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 20:24:47 -0700 Subject: Re: Air core meter At 12:52 PM 8/16/96 EST, you wrote: > > >In an old Philips 8051 databook I have, it describes a meter movement >called an air core meter - two coils are fixed at right angles to each >other, and a permanent magnet moves the needle. To move the needle to a >desired angle, the coil currents are set so that one coil current is >proportional to the sine of the required angle, and the other is the >cosine. The big question is, are there any cars available in Australia (or >more to the point, in Australian wrecking yards) which use this movement? >It looks like a fun thing to play with. > > Greetings: Not knowing who is GM in Aussi, in North America, most gm cars use a air core meter as a basis of their tachometer. If you look at most vehicles one where the tach remains at a certain rpm on shutdown prob uses a aircore meter. If you check the National Semi you will find a LM1819 which is the chip GM uses to drive their tach. GL:peter ------------------------------ From: "Mr. Slate" Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 22:42:49 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [none] > >.... Hmmm, let's see... How about electric motors > >mounted in the hubs of each wheel that will not only be motors, but > >regenerative brakes ... Let's put an onboard turbine engine to > >generate power for these things so we have some acceleration,... > Consider this, 4 off the shelf electric motors. Ridgidly mounted to chassis > and connected to the wheel via cv joints. A battery pack per current > electric vehicle standards, and one off the shelf small gas engine DC > generators. I think you know where I'm going. Generator is sized to propell > the car at 55mph, stand alone. Generator and battery pack combined might > give you 0-60 in 3 seconds. Of course, all of this would require > micro-processor control. Ok experts, what are the real world physical limits? This ideas already exists, it's called a series hybrid electric vehicle. Essentailly, the electric motors run all the time, under any conditions. When the battery goes below a certain depth-of-discharge (DOD) the gasoline (Natural gas, propane, methanol, ethanol, .....) powered engine is automatically turned on and the energy is fed into the batteries. Part of this is then removed to run the electric motors, the remaining portion charges the batteries. Sounds like a great idea, electric motors produce no emissions, their quite, etc. The gasoline engine can be optimized for running under certain load conditions, minimizing exhaust emissions and maximizing fuel economy. Right? Now for reality. As a student who has worked on the development of two hybrid electric vehicles, and been to two hybrid electric vehicle competitions, I have seen reality and theory collide head on. On average a vehicle needs about 10 to 15 kW of energy to maintain highway speed. This is a rough number, very dependent on type of vehicle, weight, aerodynamics (marshmellow shaped vs. cinderblock shaped), etc. In reality, batteries only take about 50% of the energy you give them as charging potential, the rest is dissipated as heat. Your high power electronics (invertors, etc) are only about 80 to 90% efficient, and your motor(s) and generator are only about 75 to 90% efficient. So, as you can see, the 10 to 15 kW has grown to between 28 and 43 kW. That a pretty big energy requirment. It's no longer a small internal combustion engine, like a kohler 20 hp, it's something like Suzuki 1.0L 3 cylinder. Assuming you want to keep the trunk, this is a lot of stuff to fit under the hood of your average sized sedan. In addition, the generator must be sized to produce voltages around 170 to 200 volts. This makes them large, heavy, and expensive. At the 1995 HEV Challenge (held back in June of 1995) 40 schools competed in three classes to see who could build the best hybrid. In the Ford Escort Conversion class 10 cars competed in the range event, a grueling 3.5hr event in 40C tempuratures. Eight cars used a series hybrid system, as explain above, the remaining 2 were parallel hybrids. Each car had 11 liters of combustible fuel, and a charged battery. The last two cars running were the paralles, all the series cars ran out of battery energy long before they ran out of combustable fuels. They simiply couldn't produce the energy to keep the car going, and charge the batteries. So as you can see, while the series hybrid looks really good on paper, in reality it doesn't neccessarily stand up. By the way, if this will do zero to 60 in 3 seconds I'll buy one. Our car, a modified Ford Escort with 120hp of electric power and 45 hp of gasoline power can only muster 1/8 mile in 11.8 seconds, at a speed of 60 mph. Keep in mind though, our car is a parallel hybrid, using both the ICE and electric motors to run the wheels. Hope this answers some of your questions, Neall Booth University of Alberta Student Vehicle Projects *************************************************************** Neall Booth nbooth@xxx.ca Mechanical Engineering LPGV Project (Fuel sys. leader) University of Alberta HEV Project (Mech. Sys. Leader) *************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: "Brian P. Davies" <75223.2760@xxx.COM> Date: 16 Aug 96 00:57:44 EDT Subject: re: Rover engines I used to live in England but have been stateside for over 6 years now. As far as I can remember....., the 215 Olds engine was indeed the engine that Rover licenced their design from however starting with the Rover SD1 @1976 Rover modified the heads with bigger intake valves, thus substancially increasing performance. On the induction side of the engine the twin SU carbs were a major restriction. The Offenhouser 360 manifold and Holley 390cfm carb are the induction pieces of choice for most hot rodders in the UK. However a F.I. system should be able to improve economy and performance from there. Hope the info helps. Brian Davies 75223.2760@xxx.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jagman ------------------------------ From: Warren Crowther Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:02:07 +1200 Subject: Re: 80552, Air core meter >Can anyone comment on their experiences with using an 80552 as the basis >of an ECU? Does anyone know where I can get my hands on an 80552 based SBC, >preferably with external EPROM and RAM and access to the high speed >outputs? I checked out HiTech's offering, and Micro Control and >Diagnostics's page on the Web, and was wondering if there were more. >I've tried routing my own, and have nearly finished it, but being >a single sided board, it's an absolute dog's breakfast of jumper wires, and >I wouldn't trust the end product to get me to the pub, let alone be >regarded as reliable transport. yep - i've got one that i did myself that works okay. It's also got rs232 and rs485 comms, +12v power supply, LCD display, and more. i've done v1 of the board and it works. I'm going to make a few changes and make another one soon. I can give you a copy of this if you want. PS let me know if someone gives you a good one - mine works okay, but it could be a bit tidier! >In an old Philips 8051 databook I have, it describes a meter movement >called an air core meter - two coils are fixed at right angles to each >other, and a permanent magnet moves the needle. To move the needle to a >desired angle, the coil currents are set so that one coil current is >proportional to the sine of the required angle, and the other is the >cosine. The big question is, are there any cars available in Australia (or >more to the point, in Australian wrecking yards) which use this movement? >It looks like a fun thing to play with. huh??! what's it for??? Warren _______________________________________________________________ Warren Crowther Software Engineer DDI +649 3610625 warren@xxx.nz Ph +649 3602834 x5625 Advantage Systems Ltd Fax +649 3764210 ------------------------------ From: Mark Pitts Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:49:11 +-200 Subject: RE: Rovers engines - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB8B58.2DCCCCC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Way too go! (besides, The truck axle would be well able to cope with it = just through the engineering for torqu, not just horses).. nice idea = about the pump, but dont you get trouble from possably stalling the pump = system, or pushing the water into cavitation by restricting its flow?? Sax - ---------- From: George M. Dailey[SMTP:gmd@xxx.com] Sent: Friday, August 16, 1996 2:01 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Rovers engines At 01:26 PM 8/15/96 +-200, you wrote: >Other stupid ideas...... >Build a back yard dyno out of a truck axle..... (wait, hear me out on = this) >Calibrate torqe by strain guaging the torqu tube between the diff = casing and the brake backplate. Use those enormous brake drums to regulate RPM,(maybee with a hose on them to keep the drum coolish). Sounds silly, = but how much kinetic/potenetial energy will these things dispose of in a = fully laden dump truck going down a reasonably long hill??? Might not run continuous, but I'll bet it would cope with 10 - 15 min run. > >Anybody interested in any of the above... drop me a line! > >Sax I have thought about this too. My idea was to use a large water pump to = load the engine. I would throttle the discharge of the pump to load the = engine and measure the resulting torque. Since I work at a 760 mega watt power plant and have seen the effects of catastrophic power train failures, = I'm not sure if I would have the nerve to go near a home built dyno loaded = up with 300 hp @xxx."it's better to = burn out than fade away....' 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Dailey[SMTP:gmd@xxx.com] Sent: Friday, August 16, 1996 2:26 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Eprom Security Board At 05:03 PM 8/9/96 -0700, you wrote: >.... Hmmm, let's see... How about electric motors >mounted in the hubs of each wheel that will not only be motors, but >regenerative brakes ... Let's put an onboard turbine engine to >generate power for these things so we have some acceleration,... Consider this, 4 off the shelf electric motors. Ridgidly mounted to = chassis and connected to the wheel via cv joints. A battery pack per current electric vehicle standards, and one off the shelf small gas engine DC generators. I think you know where I'm going. Generator is sized to = propell the car at 55mph, stand alone. Generator and battery pack combined might give you 0-60 in 3 seconds. Of course, all of this would require micro-processor control. Ok experts, what are the real world physical = limits? 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Several years ago I > disected a LCD display and noticed that the silver background could be > easily removed. To my surprise, the LCD was clear. Could a lap top > computer LCD be used as a heads up display with the silver background > removed? Does any company market such a device? Sounds similar to the overhead projection adapters we use for projecting computer screen images. They are some form of LCD I believe. The one we have is made by Kodak. You can get colour or black & white versions. I have heard that one automative company is playing with displaying data on the windscreen by having a monitor in the dash pointing upward, if I remember correctly. I think they do similar things with aircraft don't they? I think the concept is interesting but one has to remember that to read them you would have to change eye focal length probably. This could lead to loss of concentration on the road ahead. Better than looking down at a dash though I suppose. I guess what I am saying is that we would have to get used to them so they are an aid and not a hazard. Could add a whole new meaning to Drive-in theatres if we all just projected the images on our windscreen! The mind boggles. David Crocombe, Sydney, Australia. ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #232 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".