DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 20 September 1996 Volume 01 : Number 280 In this issue: Re: Jake Brakes & dynos about teflon-oil Re: Hardened Valve Seats Re: Re[2]: GM Coolant sensor Re: about teflon-oil Re: Microcontroller shielding questions RE: Jake Brakes & dynos Re: Jake Brakes & dynos RE: about teflon-oil Hardened Valve Seats, but why? Kiss Re: Math Question RE: Math Question RE: Math Question Re: Hardened Valve Seats Re: DIY_EFI Digest V1 #277 wasted-heat Re: GM Coolant sensor RE: Ignition timing in conjunction with RE: Electromotive Re: Haltech E6 EFI Re: Hardened Valve Seats Re: DIY_EFI Digest V1 #277 Re: wasted-heat Re[4]: GM Coolant sensor Diesel Injectors.... How do they work? Re: Hardened Valve Seats Re[2]: wasted-heat See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Hans Hintermaier" Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:32:48 MET Subject: Re: Jake Brakes & dynos > > All that Clinton wants is every thing Hitler had - > Remember the Reichstag!!! > Can anybody explain that to me? Offline! Hans hiha@xxx.de Munich / Germany ------------------------------ From: pfontana@xxx.it (fontana pasquale) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 12:49:56 +0200 Subject: about teflon-oil HELLO TO ALL Have anyone take, purchase, drink etc. etc. any type of oil with teflon?? Do you know the oil type with " CENTRILIUM " ??? Thanks for "those helpers" . PASQUALE *** ** \||/ * * ('') PASQUALE - ----------- address phone & mailing--------------------------------- FONTANA Ing. Pasquale Via Stazione 24 89055 GALLICO MAR. (REGGIO CAL.) ITALY E-MAIL: pfontana@xxx.it phone: 0039 965 863404 fax : 0039 965 863244 - ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Dirk Wright Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 08:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Hardened Valve Seats On Thu, 19 Sep 1996, Stephen Lamb wrote: > >Wie Gehts? Just wanted to let you know I hadn't forgotten about the > >seat > >material. Checked the SAE books we have--specs for valves, but not > >seats. Checked the General Motors Materials books, but no mention I > > One material used for 'hardened' valve seats is Stellite, which is a Cobalt > based alloy. Also used a facing material on the valve itself. I can get > specs if you want. Stellite valves are also available for Porsches and maybe some other cars. **************************************************************************** Dirk Wright wright@xxx.gov "I speak for myself and not my employer." 1974 Porsche 914 2.0 "A real hifi glows in the dark and has horns." 1965 Goodman House **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: cloud@xxx.edu (tom cloud) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 08:29:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Re[2]: GM Coolant sensor > > That is what they are for, but wouldn,t it be great to get rid of an > op-amp. Hence try and reduce the amount of circuitry required. > Something like a simple LCD temp read out (very useful for diff, > gearbox and water in race cars), temp sensor, a small resistor divider > and a panel meter, and its guarranteed to be very reliable, once you > start throwing in op-amps, etc. you need very steady power supply > rails to avoid inaccurate readings. So is there a positive temp > coefficient sensor around ? (could always make one if I have to, but > its easier if there's a car that's already using one). > > > Dan dzorde@xxx.au > > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: Re: GM Coolant sensor >Author: diy_efi@xxx.edu at INTERNET >Date: 9/18/96 11:19 PM > > >> Does anyone know if there's a positive curve temp sensor around, ie. >> increasing voltage for increasing temp. Would make life a lot easier >> for analogue circuitry. >> >> Dan dzorde@xxx.au > >I thought that's what inverting amps were for. >Tom Dan, The first monolothic op-amp was the uA-709. It was not frequency compensated, required offset adjustments, could latch up and was sensitive to its power supply. That was about 1967 or so. Only a few years later the uA-741 (yes, the venerable 741) came out. It solved all of those problems. The ability of an op-amp to not be affected by its power supply is called (guess what?) Supply Voltage Rejection Ratio. For the 741 (remember, it's an OLD op-amp, the new ones are much better) the SVRR is 77 dB minimum to over 96 dB. That means that a change of one volt in the supply will create a change of no more than 1/(10^(77/20)) <= 140 micro-volts. If your sensor has a range of 0 to 5 volts, then this represents an error of .00014/5 = .0028%. A digital meter typically is only .5% accurate. An analog meter only 5%. If you use any electronics, you're gonna have to 'scale' voltages. If your sensor output is fairly lo-Z an' your meter is hi-Z, you can maybe use a resistor voltage divider (assuming you're going to a lower voltage). If your meter requires any offset voltage (like maybe your sensor has an output from 1 to 6 volts and your meter works on 0 to 5 volts) you'll need a transistor circuit or op-amp. In other words, you live in an analog world (hell, digital circuits are just saturated analog amplifiers!!) and you're gonna have to deal wid' it. If you are inexperienced with operational amplifiers, go to Radio Shack and buy their $3 book on op-amps. Actually, they have a several good beginning books that are incredibly inexpensive. There is a series by Forrest Mimms that I recommend highly. The little book I mentioned that costs about $3.00 can be bought with a small kit of parts for probably $10.00 so that one can build some simple circuits. All you'd need is a couple of 9-volt transistor batteries and a voltmeter. Once again, Radio Shack sells a pocket DVM for about $25. [Note: I do not recommend the purchase of parts from Radio Shack -- in fact long experience dictates strongly against it. I recommend the above books to my students, however. The DVM mentioned is not very good. Better to buy one for about $10 more from some place that carries quality products -- like maybe Digi-Key, Mouser, Newark, etc.] Now, to answer your real question re: pos. coeff. temp. sensors. Thermistors are neg. coeff. but T.I. used to make a product called a 'sensistor' that was pos. coeff. (last time I saw one was probably 1972). Don't have any idea if they still make it. There is a company called Omega that carries all kinds of stuff like that (and produce very good catalogs and reference sources). Their number is 800-826-6342. (But, you'll still probably have to condition the output -- i.e. use an op-amp!) Tom ------------------------------ From: cloud@xxx.edu (tom cloud) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 08:45:35 -0500 Subject: Re: about teflon-oil >HELLO TO ALL > >Have anyone take, purchase, drink etc. etc. any type of oil with teflon?? > >Do you know the oil type with " CENTRILIUM " ??? > >Thanks for "those helpers" . > check: ftp://ftp.best.com/pub.c/chucko/fordnatics/motor-oil Tom ------------------------------ From: Gordon Couger Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:02:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Microcontroller shielding questions >At 09:14 AM 9/17/96 PDT, Wade Barnes wrote: > >>I am designing a small (2"x2") controller board for use in the automotive >>and robotics industries. The board is based on the MC68HC16Z1 >>microcontroller. Since the engine compartment of a car is filled with EMI >>we are attempting to make the board as resistant as possible to the effects >>of the EMI. > Using sheilded twisted pairs for your incoming wires will help. Ground the sheild at the computer and leave the other end ungrounded. Have a very good ground. >Sorry, I can't quantify any of the EMI/RFI effects that you mentioned, I'd >be surprised if anyone could. Mebbe stick the car in a Faraday cage and see >what you get. > Faraday cages are hard to come by. If you can find a large field with no power lines you can do about as well as in a cage. At least one major farm equipment maker use this method. Good luck Gordon ------------------------------ From: Mark Pitts Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 13:12:59 +-200 Subject: RE: Jake Brakes & dynos Seconded... I want to talk Silicon and WD-40 not politics: Mark Also not a flame... just a prod to try and get back to silicon and WD ;-) - ---------- From: Stephen Lamb[SMTP:lambs@xxx.au] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 1996 2:29 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Cc: Robert J. Harris Subject: Re: Jake Brakes & dynos >All that Clinton wants is every thing Hitler had - > Remember the Reichstag!!! OK,OK.........enough already. The first few times was a vague annoyance.....but now I just delete the messages that start with this 'tag' without bothering with the rest of the message. Apparently it has something more to do with American politics than the actual Reichstag incident (which I DO know a little about). Whatever....it has little to do with this list, please take it to alt.politics (or something like that). This is NOT a flame - and a flame war will not be entered into - just a cry that enough is enough. Cheers Stephen Lamb Dept. of Defence DSTO, AMRL 506 Lorimer Street Fishermans Bend VIC 3207 Australia Tel: +61 3 9626 7525 Fax: +61 3 9626 7089 IZCC #180 ------------------------------ From: Gordon Couger Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:57:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Jake Brakes & dynos >>From: "Robert J. Harris" >>>They fit in the driveline - after the transmission - sort of like an >>>overdirve transmission kit. Will post the cost and dimensions >>>when I get them. Sorry I missed the opening parts of the >>dyno thread. Does the drive shaft twist enough to measure? If it does a strain gauge on the shaft that detemined the frequency of an oscilor(sp) then modulate a very small transmiter with the output from the oscilator. Recive it on the other end and then use the pulse accumulator on a 68HC11 to count the pulses over a period and you should be able to convert that to torque. It would vary on every vehicle it would probably only be good for compairsons and would be difficult to calibrate and keep in calibration. Gordon Gordon Couger Senior Software Specialist Biosystems & Agricultural Engineering Dept. Oklahoma State Univ. 114 Ag Hall Stillwater, OK 74075 gcouger@xxx.edu ------------------------------ From: Mark Pitts Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:05:01 +-200 Subject: RE: about teflon-oil Yes... It was bloody useless in our application, because teflon is a = solid ground PTFE and while slippery, and good under pressure, it is = also kinda gritty on the smallest scale. (also stopped the ball bearings on my track ball dead... had to put new = bearings in... harder job than changing hub bearings) Mark - ---------- From: fontana pasquale[SMTP:pfontana@xxx.it] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 1996 12:50 PM To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu Subject: about teflon-oil HELLO TO ALL Have anyone take, purchase, drink etc. etc. any type of oil with = teflon?? Do you know the oil type with " CENTRILIUM " ??? Thanks for "those helpers" . PASQUALE =20 *** ** \||/ * * ('')=20 PASQUALE=20 - ----------- address phone & mailing--------------------------------- FONTANA Ing. Pasquale=20 Via Stazione 24=20 89055 GALLICO MAR. (REGGIO CAL.) ITALY E-MAIL: pfontana@xxx.it phone: 0039 965 863404 fax : 0039 965 863244=20 - ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Mark Pitts Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:08:24 +-200 Subject: Hardened Valve Seats, but why? Grud!... wasn't life easy with lead??? - ---------- From: Dirk Wright[SMTP:wright@xxx.gov] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 1996 10:03 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Hardened Valve Seats On Thu, 19 Sep 1996, Stephen Lamb wrote: > >Wie Gehts? Just wanted to let you know I hadn't forgotten about the > >seat > >material. Checked the SAE books we have--specs for valves, but not > >seats. Checked the General Motors Materials books, but no mention I > > One material used for 'hardened' valve seats is Stellite, which is a Cobalt > based alloy. Also used a facing material on the valve itself. I can get > specs if you want. Stellite valves are also available for Porsches and maybe some other cars. **************************************************************************** Dirk Wright wright@xxx.gov "I speak for myself and not my employer." 1974 Porsche 914 2.0 "A real hifi glows in the dark and has horns." 1965 Goodman House **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: "Robert J. Harris" Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 22:43:42 -0700 Subject: Kiss Once upon a time, refrigerators ran on what I believe is called the ammonia cycle. RV and some industrial fridges still do. RV's burn Propane to generate the heat energy to cool the pop and make ice. The one area every one agrees that helps power, mileage and efficiency is intercooling the discharge air of a turbo. Why not look at this type of pumpless, compressor less form of refrigeration as a possible candidate for active charge cooling while recovering some excess heat energy. Not being a refrigeration engineer, I can't say what the numbers will run out to, but it offers some initial hope of doing something practical with the excess heat. Any form of charge cooling is going to require control and at least feedforward. The perfect candidate for that is the EFI controller. Just some food for thought - for whatever its worth. I'm out of the feedback loop - just want to see if anyone else sees some possibility. This signature line censored because it offended a government employee Robert Harris - ---------- ------------------------------ From: John Napoli Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 12:46:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Math Question Unless some real efficient heat/electric device was available, and used to drive the car, not much of a gain will be seen. Heck, if such an efficient direct heat/electric capability existed, we could replace our engines with oil burners (like the one o\in your basement)! Power plants have 2 advantages. THey don't move. So weight of the extra equipment isn't a problem. And they are amortized over something like thirty-five years. Helps with the costs. Now while some of us might have overweight project cars that never move and just eat dollars, that is not the point! :) So I expect that this issue will remain pretty much a sore point unless somehow we figure out how to use the waste heat to perform mechanical work. Your car just does not use enough electrical power to gain much by eliminating the alternator, although of course it is a step in the right direction. John On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, hoss karoly wrote: > John Napoli wrote: > > > > This issue of thermodynamic efficiency is one of my hot points (ouch). > > > > Fossil fuel plants use every trick in the book to recapture all the > > 'waste' BTUs that they can. If you neglect the power used to run their > > pollution devices (a parasitic loss), their overall efficiency is pretty > > good - I recall numbers in the mid-40s. > > > > Our gasoline engines in our cars do nothing to utilize the energy in the > > waste heat. Arre they 10%? 20% efficient overall? I doubt 20% but lets > > go with that number. > I had the same feeeling before . > in fact I plan to build some peltier-cells on my engine > to charge my battery > who knows ? maybe I can eliminate the generator and save power > > BTW does anybody knows how the H-O cells work ? is it possible to build > one > wich work with gasoline and air to produce electricity ? > the heat-cells work at a 70-80% eff. range > > bye > charley > > > ------------------------------ From: butler@xxx.com (Jim Butler) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 14:01:49 CDT Subject: RE: Math Question >From: John Napoli[SMTP:jgn@xxx.net] >Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 1996 11:15 PM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: Math Question > > > If we were able to utilize a third of the waste heat, wouldn't that make a > big difference? Instead of raising CAFE with smaller and lighter cars, we > would raise it by being more efficient. I doubt that all the EFI software > in the world will make much more MPG than we see right now. I would like > to see something intelligent about using the waste heat. In a relatively old textbook that I have on heat engines (40's or 50's era) there's a discussion of the idea of following an IC with a gas-turbine. The context wasn't like that of a turbocharger, but rather with the turbine shaft connected though a mechanical drive to the driveshaft, hence combining the output of the two for useful work. FWIW, Jim - -- Jim Butler (butler@xxx.com) ------------------------------ From: neilaura@xxx.net Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 13:06:00 -0500 Subject: RE: Math Question DI>Yes, and the key phrase is 'to an extent'. There is still a lot of waste DI>heat out the tail pipe and in the radiator and etc. A turbo is a step in DI>the right direction but there are still a lot of BTUs being 'wasted'. DI>John DI>On Wed, 18 Sep 1996, Mark Pitts wrote: DI>> Surly that is effectively what a turbo does to an extent, esp. in diesels DI>> DI>> Mark DI>> DI>> ---------- DI>> From: John Napoli[SMTP:jgn@xxx.net] DI>> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 1996 11:15 PM DI>> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu DI>> Subject: Re: Math Question DI>> DI>> This issue of thermodynamic efficiency is one of my hot points (ouch). DI>> DI>> Fossil fuel plants use every trick in the book to recapture all the DI>> 'waste' BTUs that they can. If you neglect the power used to run their DI>> pollution devices (a parasitic loss), their overall efficiency is pretty DI>> good - I recall numbers in the mid-40s. DI>> DI>> Our gasoline engines in our cars do nothing to utilize the energy in the DI>> waste heat. Arre they 10%? 20% efficient overall? I doubt 20% but lets DI>> go with that number. DI>> DI>> If we were able to utilize a third of the waste heat, wouldn't that make a DI>> big difference? Instead of raising CAFE with smaller and lighter cars, we DI>> would raise it by being more efficient. I doubt that all the EFI software DI>> in the world will make much more MPG than we see right now. I would like DI>> to see something intelligent about using the waste heat. DI>> DI>> John DI>> DI>> DI>> I once read an article (I forget where) regarding a company that was using superheated steam, made by wrapping copper pipe around the header, to drive a small turbine, which was used to run the air conditioning and the alternator. This obviously relieved the engine of these power sucking accessories, and indirectly raised the efficiency. I don't know if any further research was done, but it seemed like a practical idea. Neil Powell Neilaura@xxx.net DI>> DI>> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sent from AceWeb. Telnet to bbs.aceweb.net. BBS#(818) 891-0397 Home of the 500 Disc CD-Rom Changer. Call AceWeb Network at (800)600-3285 >>> ISV Software Distributor <<< Call Agama Computer at (800)745-2231 >>> Computer Parts and Systems <<< Check out our web site at http://www.aceweb.net for more info! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ From: neilaura@xxx.net Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 13:06:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Hardened Valve Seats DI>On Thu, 19 Sep 1996, Stephen Lamb wrote: DI>> >Wie Gehts? Just wanted to let you know I hadn't forgotten about the DI>> >seat DI>> >material. Checked the SAE books we have--specs for valves, but not DI>> >seats. Checked the General Motors Materials books, but no mention I DI>> DI>> One material used for 'hardened' valve seats is Stellite, which is a Cobal DI>> based alloy. Also used a facing material on the valve itself. I can get DI>> specs if you want. DI>Stellite valves are also available for Porsches and maybe some other cars. DI>**************************************************************************** DI>Dirk Wright wright@xxx.gov DI>"I speak for myself and not my employer." 1974 Porsche 914 2.0 DI>"A real hifi glows in the dark and has horns." 1965 Goodman House DI>**************************************************************************** I don't know about America, but in England it is common practise to build up cam lobes with stellite to reclaim them. The stuff is damn near indestructable and can be applied easily with a welding torch. Neil Powell Neilaura@xxx.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sent from AceWeb. Telnet to bbs.aceweb.net. BBS#(818) 891-0397 Home of the 500 Disc CD-Rom Changer. Call AceWeb Network at (800)600-3285 >>> ISV Software Distributor <<< Call Agama Computer at (800)745-2231 >>> Computer Parts and Systems <<< Check out our web site at http://www.aceweb.net for more info! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ From: hoss karoly Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 06:26:10 +0200 Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V1 #277 talltom wrote: > > Bob Harris has mentioned a desire to inject water at a precise point in the > combustion cycle just for grins to see what happens. I'd think one would > want to > preheat the water to little less than the boiling point, wow it's a nice idea to preheat it thanks for the idea btw I'm new to the list (hi!) where can I find some kind of archive ? and what kind of pump-valve do you use for water-injection ? about myself (hit-delete if you ... you already done it if you're not interested ) I'm 25 working usually with micro-controllers like the PIC I built some automotive-applications before and I'm interested in pumping some more power and mileage in my good-old bedford diesel the first idea is to make it water injected any ideas on this one ? bye charley ------------------------------ From: hoss karoly Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 07:43:53 +0200 Subject: wasted-heat John Napoli wrote: > > Unless some real efficient heat/electric device was available, and used to > drive the car, not much of a gain will be seen. Heck, if such an > efficient direct heat/electric capability existed, we could replace our > engines with oil burners (like the one o\in your basement)! the peltier cells are widely used in automotive drink-coolers and they are really efficient in a way : they use waste-heat used for nothing the altRnator uses the engine's power so it can be 100% efficient - it uses Xtra fuel > > So I expect that this issue will remain pretty much a sore point unless > somehow we figure out how to use the waste heat to perform mechanical > work. Your car just does not use enough electrical power to gain much by > eliminating the alternator, although of course it is a step in the right > direction. > well , I'd be more careful about estimating the ele-power-consumption of my car only the front lights are a little above 900 watts :) (it helps finding the way ;) ) the audio sys eats up some 200-300 W the stand-heating 40-200 W the seat-heating ? only saab knows ( I found it in a saab 900 ) the H-O catalist cells are used in space applications maybe someone can build one for diesel-air it'll be light and extremely efficient it must be - according to the books but it states noone has found the right catalisator YET bye charley ps how do would you make a pre-heated water injector for a diesel ? ------------------------------ From: Chris Morriss Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 18:45:11 +0100 Subject: Re: GM Coolant sensor In message <9608198431.AA843148124@xxx.au>, dzorde@xxx.au writes > > That is what they are for, but wouldn,t it be great to get rid of an > op-amp. Hence try and reduce the amount of circuitry required. > Something like a simple LCD temp read out (very useful for diff, > gearbox and water in race cars), temp sensor, a small resistor divider > and a panel meter, and its guarranteed to be very reliable, once you > start throwing in op-amps, etc. you need very steady power supply > rails to avoid inaccurate readings. So is there a positive temp > coefficient sensor around ? (could always make one if I have to, but > its easier if there's a car that's already using one). > > > Dan dzorde@xxx.au > > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: Re: GM Coolant sensor >Author: diy_efi@xxx.edu at INTERNET >Date: 9/18/96 11:19 PM > > >> Does anyone know if there's a positive curve temp sensor around, ie. >> increasing voltage for increasing temp. Would make life a lot easier >> for analogue circuitry. >> >> Dan dzorde@xxx.au > >I thought that's what inverting amps were for. >Tom > I use a Nat Semi LM50. This is a linear sensor with an output that increases with increasing temperature. The TO92 version can be fitted into an old dismantled water temp sensor if required. Use heatshrink sleeving as insulation. As it is a 3-wire sensor it needs a +ve feed as well as the ground and output wire. - -- Chris Morriss ------------------------------ From: "Woodd, Michael" Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 09:22:00 +1200 Subject: RE: Ignition timing in conjunction with >There appears to exist a number of sensors to build >an excellent self tuning EFI, yet the only sensor that >anyone talks about for ignition timing is a knock >sensor that just tells me - oops too much - >self destruct sequence initiated. I posted similar musings to an unreceptive audience in efi332 a while back, could have been the house was empty, but here I go again.... I have thought about this an awful lot, and plan to put some of my ideas into practice, once I figure out how to actually build the thing... The only thing stopping you having a computer tweak the engine parameters for you is that you have to have *accurate* *results* from your measuring system. It seems to me with an accurate performance measure- ment system, anything is possible, but building an *accurate* system is a bit of an ask. Consider a car on an absolutely perfectly flat piece of concrete, on an absolutely still day, with an absolutely even ambient air temperature/pressure. Now theoretically, you can measure your acceleration and speed down to a t, factor in total car weight (however you're going to measure that...), drag coefficient if you like, RPMs... whatever else you need to get torque and real horsepower. I dont even know the physics well, but I figure it can be done. Use some fuzzy logic to try to improve things over multiple acceleration runs, hey presto, self tuning car. But of course we all know that the original premise is absolute B.S., even an aircraft runway would have trouble delivering. Bumps on the road will produce lumps in the acceleration curve if you're measuring wheel speed, how ill it know when we are climbing slight rises, how will it know when we are cornering, how will it account for headwinds... What about putting this on my bike??!! Of course there are sensors that could capture information that could largely negate all of these, and I am keen to try and implement most of them. Put in a knock sensor, and try to use EGO as much as possible, including in non-steady-state situations, to make sure we are heading in the right direction, *heaps* of memory to record multiple instances of the same speed/RPM/TPS for different spark/fuel parameters, historical EGO info... My idea is to have this running for a race track environment, where the car is doing multiple acceleration and speed runs, repetitively, and I think given a baseline spark/fuel curve, it could quite quickly approach the perfection asymptote... I have no idea how complex the software will be to get there, or what kind of processing grunt will be required. I am going to start with a '552!!! What it is capable of I don't know, but being of an empirical nature, I hope to find out. >I truly hope that there are some good ideas out there. > Where yours????? ;-) Mike Woodd (wooddm@xxx.nz) Anybody need a race car driver? No, really, I'm quite good.... ------------------------------ From: "Orin Harding" Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 22:03:02 UT Subject: RE: Electromotive Todd, I have the newer Electromotive TEC-II and I suppose you can get a copy of the software you need from them at (703) 378-2444. This may be the old number but the operator can give you the new one. They also have a web page, search for Electromotive. Orin e-mail address: orin@xxx.com Check our WEB site: www.deltacp.com Phone/Fax: (910) 854-3232 Mobil Phone: (910) 601-8418 - ---------- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu on behalf of Todd Knighton Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 1996 2:04 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Electromotive Hellppp. Got stuck with this car that has an old Electromotive TEC-I with a 23D eprom and it needs a program called "CAL" to work with it. Anybody out there have one or know where to get it. In the Electromotive Manual it gives a description of the units/eproms/calibration software and next to this one it says (obsolete), oh boy, more fun! If anyone has worked with this system maybe you could answer this question. We got the car with no calibration software, and according to the manual there's no way to upload the parameters from the unit to the PC, or is there? It looks like all you can do is download from the PC to the Electromotive TEC unit so do we have to start all over again, even though we have a calibration that's mildly close to where it should be? Any help would be appreciated! <:( Todd Knighton Protomotive Engineering ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey Engel" Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 18:02:25 +600 Subject: Re: Haltech E6 EFI Jeremy, I don't run an E6, but I'm a short drive from Norwood in Dallas, TX (USA). From what I gather, they ARE or they are distributors for Haltech in the US of A. I'd be willing to help out if I can. BTW, did you know that the Haltech was designed in OZ (the E6 at least)? Maybe you could get help close by. The 'tuning' interface is patented in OZ, that means you should be able to trace someone through the patent office. je > From: Jeremy Pronk > > > Any help is greatly appreciated! I would like to hear from anyone who > runs Haltech E6 in there car as well. (Forgive my ignorance, but I have > only ever played with carbies up until now, even though I have been on > this list for a while, I dont seem to have picked up to much)... > > Jeremy, Sydney AUSTRALIA > '69 510 4dr (for sale!) > '83 AlfaSud Ti (Haltech E6 EFI) ------------------------------ From: Dirk Wright Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 19:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Hardened Valve Seats On Thu, 19 Sep 1996 neilaura@xxx.net wrote: > > > I don't know about America, but in England it is common practise to > build up cam lobes with stellite to reclaim them. The stuff is damn near > indestructable and can be applied easily with a welding torch. > I think it's uncommon on this side of the pond. Stelite still has enough of an aura of voodoo magic to be a good marketing tool for the fat wallet set. The main benifit of the material is that it doens't get soft at high temperatures, unlike just about every other steel alloy. **************************************************************************** Dirk Wright wright@xxx.gov "I speak for myself and not my employer." 1974 Porsche 914 2.0 "A real hifi glows in the dark and has horns." 1965 Goodman House **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Dirk Wright Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 19:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V1 #277 On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, hoss karoly wrote: > I built some automotive-applications before and I'm interested in > pumping some > more power and mileage in my good-old bedford diesel > the first idea is to make it water injected > any ideas on this one ? I would be very careful using water injection on a diesel because the extremely high compression ratios could easily lead to hydro lock, thus bendin your connecting rods, or worse. Also, I heard somewhere that diesels actually *liked* lots of heat, so the cooling effect of water injection may be a disadvantage. **************************************************************************** Dirk Wright wright@xxx.gov "I speak for myself and not my employer." 1974 Porsche 914 2.0 "A real hifi glows in the dark and has horns." 1965 Goodman House **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: cloud@xxx.edu (tom cloud) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 18:57:48 -0500 Subject: Re: wasted-heat [snip ] >the peltier cells are widely used in automotive drink-coolers and they >are really saw an article once where someone attached a modified grill to the back of the car and used the heat from the exhaust to cook a meal whilst driving. >well , I'd be more careful about estimating the ele-power-consumption of >my car >only the front lights are a little above 900 watts :) >(it helps finding the way ;) ) >the audio sys eats up some 200-300 W the stand-heating 40-200 W >the seat-heating ? only saab knows ( I found it in a saab 900 ) dunno where those figgers come from. P=E * I. A headlight bulb is typically 50 watts. I = P/E, therefore about 4 amps per headlight. About 2 amps for clearance / stop / turn lamps (each), so for two headlights and 2 clearance / turn lights, maybe 150 watts or about 12 amps. The power consumed by audio systems is minimal: maybe 200 mA for a tape drive motor. Most power is for anything that lights up -- like incandescent lamps or LED's. Now, when you're making volume, that's a different bag o' worms. But 300 watts? What I was trying to say in the first part is, most of the wattage (like the 300 watts) will be used in the power amp -- and most of it (class B amps are about 75% efficient) will go into the speakers. You listen to that long and you'll have to correspond by writing or sign language 'cause you won't be able to hear. Besides, never seen an OEM system that made 300 watts -- didn't say there weren't any. Most systems make maybe 10 or 20 watts. What I've observed for electrical power draws: headlamps 50 watts ~ 4 A exterior lamps 10-20 watts ~ 2 A interior lamps 10 watts ~ 1 A dash lamps 2 watts ~ 200 mA. ignition coil 50 watts ~ 4 A (intermittent) radio 2 - xx watts ~ .25 amps (no volume) tape deck motor 2 watts ~ .2 A starter 1800 - 3000 watts ~ 150 - 250 A fuel pump 24 - 120 watts ~ 2 - 10 amps blower motor ( dunno ) computer ( dunno ) Tom ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.au Date: Fri, 20 Sep 96 08:27:42 Subject: Re[4]: GM Coolant sensor Thanks, nice reply, I would go digital if I had the time, but I just want something quick and super reliable (the more parts, the lower the MTBF). Anyway I'll just mount a VDO temp sensor in a larger plug (isolated with the extra resistor to the earth, to turn it into a PTC sensor). One of these mounted in each area to be measured, a selector switch to select either sensor and a panel meter to display the selected sensor. Easy, quick, cheap and very reliable. Thanks for the input everybody, its good to see some of the ideas floating around. Dan dzorde@xxx.au Now, to answer your real question re: pos. coeff. temp. sensors. Thermistors are neg. coeff. but T.I. used to make a product called a 'sensistor' that was pos. coeff. (last time I saw one was probably 1972). Don't have any idea if they still make it. There is a company called Omega that carries all kinds of stuff like that (and produce very good catalogs and reference sources). Their number is 800-826-6342. (But, you'll still probably have to condition the output -- i.e. use an op-amp!) Tom ------------------------------ From: Thor Johnson Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 21:11:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Diesel Injectors.... How do they work? Not quite EFI, but while looking for Injectors, I met a good friend at NOPI, and he showed me alot of injectors... I noticed that the Diesel ones had Fuel in, and two little ports on the sides. How do these injectors know when to fire? Thor Johnson johnsont@xxx.edu http://falcon.mercer.peachnet.edu/~johnsont Have you seen the WarpMap lately? http://falcon.mercer.peachnet.edu/~johnsont/warpmap ------------------------------ From: Gordon Couger Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 20:43:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Hardened Valve Seats >On Thu, 19 Sep 1996 neilaura@xxx.net wrote: > >I think it's uncommon on this side of the pond. Stelite still has enough >of an aura of voodoo magic to be a good marketing tool for the fat wallet >set. > I think they make stelite valves for about every thing. We use them alot for valves in propane conversions. The standard drill was to run a new pickup 5,000 miles to break it in, make the propane conversion, run it until needed a valve job and put in stelite valves and seats. At least on the exaust valve. Gordon ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.au Date: Fri, 20 Sep 96 09:56:15 Subject: Re[2]: wasted-heat I'm running 90/130W (low/high beam) in my headlights, a set of 150W sealed beam for high beam and a set of 150W spotties. Comes to 180W at low beam (around town), switch on the high beam and you have 740W (due to the purposely designed wiring the low beam stays on when the high beam is switched on), then switch on the spotties (1040W) and boy, you'll be able to spot a roo 20Km up the road before you hit it. It does tend to flatten the battery over long periods though, the alternator drops to about 9.6V @xxx. Dan dzorde@xxx.au ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: wasted-heat Author: diy_efi@xxx.edu at INTERNET Date: 9/20/96 9:40 AM [snip ] >the peltier cells are widely used in automotive drink-coolers and they >are really saw an article once where someone attached a modified grill to the back of the car and used the heat from the exhaust to cook a meal whilst driving. >well , I'd be more careful about estimating the ele-power-consumption of >my car >only the front lights are a little above 900 watts :) >(it helps finding the way ;) ) >the audio sys eats up some 200-300 W the stand-heating 40-200 W >the seat-heating ? only saab knows ( I found it in a saab 900 ) dunno where those figgers come from. P=E * I. A headlight bulb is typically 50 watts. I = P/E, therefore about 4 amps per headlight. About 2 amps for clearance / stop / turn lamps (each), so for two headlights and 2 clearance / turn lights, maybe 150 watts or about 12 amps. The power consumed by audio systems is minimal: maybe 200 mA for a tape drive motor. Most power is for anything that lights up -- like incandescent lamps or LED's. Now, when you're making volume, that's a different bag o' worms. But 300 watts? What I was trying to say in the first part is, most of the wattage (like the 300 watts) will be used in the power amp -- and most of it (class B amps are about 75% efficient) will go into the speakers. You listen to that long and you'll have to correspond by writing or sign language 'cause you won't be able to hear. Besides, never seen an OEM system that made 300 watts -- didn't say there weren't any. Most systems make maybe 10 or 20 watts. What I've observed for electrical power draws: headlamps 50 watts ~ 4 A exterior lamps 10-20 watts ~ 2 A interior lamps 10 watts ~ 1 A dash lamps 2 watts ~ 200 mA. ignition coil 50 watts ~ 4 A (intermittent) radio 2 - xx watts ~ .25 amps (no volume) tape deck motor 2 watts ~ .2 A starter 1800 - 3000 watts ~ 150 - 250 A fuel pump 24 - 120 watts ~ 2 - 10 amps blower motor ( dunno ) computer ( dunno ) Tom ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #280 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".