DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 11 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 310 In this issue: L-jet Thermocouple for EGT IGNITION PROJECT Air flow meter: Thanks Re: IGNITION PROJECT Re: IGNITION PROJECT Re: Using pc parts Re: Re[2]: Using pc parts RE: IGNITION PROJECT Re: IGNITION PROJECT Re: Air Flow Meter Modification RE: IGNITION PROJECT See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wrm@xxx.za (Wouter de Waal) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:51:21 +0200 Subject: L-jet Hi Andrew I'm not quite sure if I understand what you're proposing, tell me if I read this wrong. You want to convert an air-flow meter (which is a flap connected to a potentiometer (variable resistor)) to a throttle position sensor. Why? Remember there is a difference between the ait flow and the throttle position. Example: You're towing a caravan up a hill. Foot flat on the floor, rpm @xxx. On the other hand, you're going downhill, foot off the throttle, engine revs @xxx. Air flow is now virtually zero, 'cause the engine is pumping vacuum and not air. (What I'm saying is, in the first example, the pressure in the manifold is equal to air pressure, in the second example it's a whole lot less. The engine pumps the same amount of volume at the same revs, but of a much less dense gas in the second example. Less dense = less oxygen = less fuel. The air-flow meter measures the amount of air going into the engine. It might happen that the throttle is fully open and the AFM only slightly open. Some systems use alpha-n (example Fiat Uno SX in SA) where the throttle position and revs are used to guess/compute the amount of fuel required. In this case accelleration is a guess on top of a guess, so that errors multiply. When you read the amount of air going into the engine directly, accelleration is your first guess, so you can get better performance with an air-flow type system than with alpha-n. (air-flow type, for this discussion, is flap, manifold pressure, or hot-wire. Each of these has it's own pros and cons, hot-wire is the most accurate but also the most expensive (read hi-tech), reverse for manifold pressure (MAP)) OK, so if I've completely misunderstood the question, lemme know. And tell us what you're trying to do, and to what :-) W - -- Wouter de Waal ZS1KE GE>AT d-(pu) s+:-- a- C++$ UL+ U*+$ P>++ L++ E- W Argo 505 / FT200 N+++>++ !o K w(--) !O !M V(--) PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP>++ t Amateur Homebrewer 5? X? R? tv>--- b+++ DI+ D+ G e+++(*) h--- r+++ y+++(*) Perseverance my son, '72 Puma - 1700 FI Type IV engine it's a Land/ Series II LR SW - see http://www.aztec.co.za/users/wrm /Rover "All journeys end when we reach our destination but the journeying remains a thing apart, unique unto itself. Most of us make life's journeys without understanding that the journeying is a separate thing." -- Bob Hoover ------------------------------ From: "Bosch, AN, Andrew, Dr" Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 12:32:41 UTC-2 Subject: Thermocouple for EGT I'm also interested in this, as are probably quite a few others on this list. Please would anyone replying to the above question also send it to the list and not just a private reply. Thanks. Andrew Dr A. N. Bosch Physiology Department/ Sports Science Institute University of Cape Town Medical School P. O. Box 115 Newlands 7700 South Africa ------------------------------ From: Mark Pitts Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 12:40:39 +-100 Subject: IGNITION PROJECT New question.. might develop into a thread, but I'm hoping to start a = discussion, and follow the whole design process through to a running = system. Objective: Replace the distributor and points with a blob with some = inteligence. Desired sensors: Combined engine speed/crank angle, MAP, water temp, = knock, and possibly air temp. Desired outputs: 'points' output for as many coils as required. 1,2 or = 4. Cooling fan out put. RS232 monitor port. High speed interface for = sensor output to possible further extension blocks. Reasons: My engine is a 4 pot normally aspirated 1.5 liter engine. Its = distributor is shot, and needs replacing. It eats points, and condensers = and coils, and no there is no fault, all spitfires do this! Sensing: Speed and position from a machined chain sprocket bolted to the = front pulley (which in my case is keyed in one position to the end of = the crank), with 36 or 24 teeth. Pickup is to be the digital magnetic = pickup from RS components , it costs 16 UK Pounds or about 35 bucks to = anybody over there if I have to send them (if you guys cant buy them). = MAP to be measure using MPX4250A, about 30 bucks (up to 36 psi, so that = allows turbos up to about 22 psi boost. Knock: haven't even thought = about this one yet, all suggestions welcome . Water temp, million and = one ways of doing this. Processor: 68 something (but only if I'm doing the programming, if you = want to join, and do the software, I'll adapt to what you like) On the fly re mapping, in flash. All information to be made available to other systems on request, by = serial coms. High speed programmable pulse chains indicating TDCs, firing points etc = for accurate timing by other systems (possible fuel inj?) and scope = diagnostics. Remote controll of ignition events by other systems (eg, revlimiter, = traction control etc) Extra sensor input from current points, to allow initial map to be built = from currently working mechanical system. CUT TO THE CHASE: Order of development: Sensors first. Chose sensors, and design their interfaces, then test. Design software. Chose uP Design system. Test system and refine. Up shot.. publish the sensors and interfaces , so that other scratch = builders can just do a building block design on their own hardware. If = at the point I go 68xx(x) they want to go PC or Z80 or anything else, = they can, and the software design can be followed and implemented, even = if they cant use the code. Things needed imediatly: Suitable temp sensor, and a knock sensor, and preferably their interface = schematics if anybody has a suitable solution to these two questions, I = would dearly like to hear from them. Does anybody want to join this idea.. or am I on my own for this one? A good programmer would be a bonus, I can do it, but I would prefer to = let somebody else do it. I am prepared to add dedicated hardware for = doing timing, and interrupt control, and stuff like that. Anything that = makes the programming easier. ;-) Mark (Who has decided to stop messing around and get on with it) ------------------------------ From: "Bosch, AN, Andrew, Dr" Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 12:50:41 UTC-2 Subject: Air flow meter: Thanks To all who replied to my query; thanks for the info. I see the problems. In answer to the question of what I was hoping to do, the answer is (? was) to remove the restriction imposed by the relatively small flow area of the air flow meter. Particularly, the throttle body is around 67 mm diam, there's a very large K&N air filter, conecting tubing also has large diameter, but the A/F meter has an area of about 50% of that of the rest if the ducting and throttle body. The intake runners are also very small, but thats not EFI list stuff. The idea suggested of converting a MAF seems like quite a fun thing to try. Or maybe a larger A/F meter, with some calibration electronics? Thanks again. Any further comments are welcome! Andrew Dr A. N. Bosch Physiology Department/ Sports Science Institute University of Cape Town Medical School P. O. Box 115 Newlands 7700 South Africa ------------------------------ From: brewer@xxx.com (John Brewer) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 07:07:15 -0500 Subject: Re: IGNITION PROJECT Mark, This sounds, almost verbatim, like what I am working on for my '78 FJ40 LandCruiser. I initially wanted to start with EFI but have decided to start with ignition since my electronics skills are lacking; like many engineers I have plenty of theoretical grounding in dynamics, controls, thermo, etc, but I can't build anything! (Decided to use my mechanical ability and love of automobiles to get something going.) >Objective: Replace the distributor and points with a blob with some >inteligence. Amen brother, the thing is so incredibly obselete! I thought perhaps an optical system using a semiconductor laser combined with appropriate lookup tables. Either that, or a reference point, perhaps optical, in the distributor to give me TDC on #1 and a toothed wheel on the crank pulley. Maybe even use painted teeth on the flywheel (hhmmmmm.) Get rid of the high tension leads completely and go with spark plug mounted coils controlled by a central computer: ostensibly a central computer powerful enough to do full state variable control and have it control my EFI when the time comes. >Desired sensors: Combined engine speed/crank angle, MAP, water temp, >knock, and possibly air temp. This is about what I was thinking as well. >Desired outputs: 'points' output for as many coils as required. 1,2 or 4. >Cooling fan out put. RS232 monitor port. High speed interface for sensor >output to possible further extension blocks. Definitely got to go with plug mounted coils so at least 6 outputs for me. >Reasons: My engine is a 4 pot normally aspirated 1.5 liter engine. Its >distributor is shot, and needs replacing. It eats points, and condensers >and coils, and no there is no fault, all spitfires do this! Classical distributors just stink, what more needs to be said! >Sensing: Speed and position from a machined chain sprocket bolted to the >front pulley (which in my case is keyed in one position to the end of the >crank), with 36 or 24 teeth. Pickup is to be the digital magnetic pickup >from RS components , it costs 16 UK Pounds or about 35 bucks to anybody >over there if I have to send them (if you guys cant buy them). MAP to be >measure using MPX4250A, about 30 bucks (up to 36 psi, so that allows >turbos up to about 22 psi boost. Knock: haven't even thought about this >one yet, all suggestions welcome . Water temp, million and one ways of >doing this. I like it, a turbocharger is in my dreams as well... that's one of the better dreams. >Processor: 68 something (but only if I'm doing the programming, if you >want to join, and do the software, I'll adapt to what you like) >On the fly re mapping, in flash. >All information to be made available to other systems on request, by >serial >coms. >High speed programmable pulse chains indicating TDCs, firing points etc >for accurate timing by other systems (possible fuel inj?) and scope >diagnostics. >Remote controll of ignition events by other systems (eg, revlimiter, >traction control etc) I can certainly design a controller for this sort of thing though programming a chip is a skill which I hope to get out of this little endeavour. >Extra sensor input from current points, to allow initial map to be built >from currently working mechanical system. > >CUT TO THE CHASE: > >Order of development: > > >Sensors first. > >Chose sensors, and design their interfaces, then test. >Design software. >Chose uP >Design system. >Test system and refine. > >Up shot.. publish the sensors and interfaces , so that other scratch >builders can just do a building block design on their own hardware. If at >the point I go 68xx(x) they want to go PC or Z80 or anything else, they >can, and the software design can be followed and implemented, even if they >cant use the code. > >Things needed imediatly: > >Suitable temp sensor, and a knock sensor, and preferably their interface >schematics if anybody has a suitable solution to these two questions, I >would dearly like to hear from them. > >Does anybody want to join this idea.. or am I on my own for this one? > >A good programmer would be a bonus, I can do it, but I would prefer to let >somebody else do it. I am prepared to add dedicated hardware for doing >timing, and interrupt control, and stuff like that. Anything that makes >the programming easier. ;-) > >Mark > >(Who has decided to stop messing around and get on with it) Like the NIKE commercial says, "Just Do It." John Brewer "Any man who would trade liberty for security deserves neither." - Ben Franklin ------------------------------ From: "Bosch, AN, Andrew, Dr" Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 14:23:19 UTC-2 Subject: Re: IGNITION PROJECT > New question.. might develop into a thread, but I'm hoping to start a discussion, and follow the whole design process through to a running system. > > Objective: Replace the distributor and points with a blob with some inteligence. > Does anybody want to join this idea.. or am I on my own for this one? I'm certainly interested; unfortunately my level of expertise is that I will only be able to follow, and unlikely to be on the cutting edge of great ideas on it. But hopefully the electronics wizards on the list will pick up on the idea. Andrew Dr A. N. Bosch Physiology Department/ Sports Science Institute University of Cape Town Medical School P. O. Box 115 Newlands 7700 South Africa ------------------------------ From: fish@xxx.com Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:43:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Using pc parts HEY - I am getting deluged with mail from you - the person you are trying to contact is not on earthnet.com - try earthnet.net or earthlink.com BRUCE LEE - webmaster Earthnet Online www.earthnet.com At 10:25 PM 10/10/96 -0500, you wrote: >much deletion > >>That's why, in another post on a diff. thread (I think), I asked for >>discussion about modifying OEM EFI controllers. Seems like that may >>be the most efficient, quickest, satisfying way to go. >> >> >>Tom Cloud >> >> >Modifying an oem controller would be easy with the opcode list, processor >info and schematic. Do you happen to have that for any particular >manufacture? If you do then I could give you some ideas on what to do. > >David J. Doddek |pantera@xxx.com >Owner SGD Electronics & Development Engr for Caterpillar |h 309 685-7965 >Formula SAE Team Sidewinder 94-95 |w 309 578-2931 >89 T-bird SC, 69 Fairlane w/SGD EFI |fx 217 428-4686 >74 Pantera w/Electromotive Tec-II Twin turbos and Nitros | >Hey, If you are going to go fast, go REEEAAL FAST. | > > > EARTHNET ONLINE, INC. http://www.earthnet.com ------------------------------ From: Thor Johnson Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Using pc parts On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Daniel Ridge wrote: > So here's a thing. I remember one of those irritating Infiniti commericals > about a year ago when the the Infiniti poster boy was talking about an > in-car lan. I know nothing about it. Does anyone? Is there something we > can salvage from it? What was on it? Are the transcievers cheap? There was a big section on auto networks in the Mar/Apr/May/Jun (don't know which one) issue of circuit cellar ink, but I don't remember how in-depth it was... Thor Johnson johnsont@xxx.edu http://falcon.mercer.peachnet.edu/~johnsont Have you seen the WarpMap lately? http://falcon.mercer.peachnet.edu/~johnsont/warpmap ------------------------------ From: jac@xxx.us Date: Fri, 11 Oct 96 07:30:54 PDT Subject: RE: IGNITION PROJECT Mark, I have this project up and running with lots of hours on it. The software works well but others could improve it of course. The board is about six inched long and three inches tall. A four line by 20 character LCD sits in the front. For a number of reasons, the main board should be moved to a larger box and the present format of 6 X 3 be retained for I/O functions in dash mounted box. There is lots of room for participation and contribution to the project. I think that it is important to agree on format and direction so that the work can be parceled to the participants. I will post the whole project if people want to work on it and improve it. I am not the least bit interested in distributing a bunch of code and drawings so that folks can argue about processors or programming technique without contributing significantly to the project. The present board needs a little work, some traces have been cut and jumped but about one more iteration would get finish it up. I can produce printer files for the present board. I would like to figure out a way to post hand drawings of schematics. Perhaps scanned images. A board and code exist for a test fixture that lets one simulate engine conditions and run the whole thing on the bench. I use assembled 8052 code for the core code and Basic, compiled and assembled with Systronix's compiler, for the '232 and LCD screen I/O routines. The box has buttons that can be used to modify the inservice action of the device. One version of the code runs on a much smaller controller with no inservice I/O but has the same control functions. The processor is a Phillips 87C550. When I build more of these, the logic will mostly move to an FPGA. The code will move directly to CAN capable devices. There is no reason to build the coil driver circuitry when GM does such a beautiful job of packaging the entire works for four and six cylinder engines. Two units will work for eights. GM MAP and variable reluctance magnetic pickups are a great bargain. All of these parts are hardened for an automotive environment and are available at every auto parts store. The toughest procurement is for wire ends to match the propritory GM configurations. They are available though. The parts are a bargain, but not necessarily cheap. The same is true for my time and probably yours. The GM components add up to about $200 new, aftermarket. I have several wide temperature '550 available and some cases. More are available. This may not be the proper forum for this project and I do not have the time to manage another one. If I figure out how to use it I guess I have an FTP site available. If you are interested in extending this project, post your thoughts or e-mail direct. - ------------------------------------- john carroll jac@xxx.us - ---------------Original Message--------------- New question.. might develop into a thread, but I'm hoping to start a discussion, and follow the whole design process through to a running system. Objective: Replace the distributor and points with a blob with some inteligence. Desired sensors: Combined engine speed/crank angle, MAP, water temp, knock, and possibly air temp. Desired outputs: 'points' output for as many coils as required. 1,2 or 4. Cooling fan out put. RS232 monitor port. High speed interface for sensor output to possible further extension blocks. Reasons: My engine is a 4 pot normally aspirated 1.5 liter engine. Its distributor is shot, and needs replacing. It eats points, and condensers and coils, and no there is no fault, all spitfires do this! Sensing: Speed and position from a machined chain sprocket bolted to the front pulley (which in my case is keyed in one position to the end of the crank), with 36 or 24 teeth. Pickup is to be the digital magnetic pickup from RS components , it costs 16 UK Pounds or about 35 bucks to anybody over there if I have to send them (if you guys cant buy them). MAP to be measure using MPX4250A, about 30 bucks (up to 36 psi, so that allows turbos up to about 22 psi boost. Knock: haven't even thought about this one yet, all suggestions welcome . Water temp, million and one ways of doing this. Processor: 68 something (but only if I'm doing the programming, if you want to join, and do the software, I'll adapt to what you like) On the fly re mapping, in flash. All information to be made available to other systems on request, by serial coms. High speed programmable pulse chains indicating TDCs, firing points etc for accurate timing by other systems (possible fuel inj?) and scope diagnostics. Remote controll of ignition events by other systems (eg, revlimiter, traction control etc) Extra sensor input from current points, to allow initial map to be built from currently working mechanical system. CUT TO THE CHASE: Order of development: Sensors first. Chose sensors, and design their interfaces, then test. Design software. Chose uP Design system. Test system and refine. Up shot.. publish the sensors and interfaces , so that other scratch builders can just do a building block design on their own hardware. If at the point I go 68xx(x) they want to go PC or Z80 or anything else, they can, and the software design can be followed and implemented, even if they cant use the code. Things needed imediatly: Suitable temp sensor, and a knock sensor, and preferably their interface schematics if anybody has a suitable solution to these two questions, I would dearly like to hear from them. Does anybody want to join this idea.. or am I on my own for this one? A good programmer would be a bonus, I can do it, but I would prefer to let somebody else do it. I am prepared to add dedicated hardware for doing timing, and interrupt control, and stuff like that. Anything that makes the programming easier. ;-) Mark (Who has decided to stop messing around and get on with it) - ----------End of Original Message---------- ------------------------------ From: marchildon@xxx.net (Alain Marchildon) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 15:02:09 GMT Subject: Re: IGNITION PROJECT >New question.. might develop into a thread, but I'm hoping to start a discussion, and follow the whole design process through to a running system. > >Objective: Replace the distributor and points with a blob with some intelligence. > >Desired sensors: Combined engine speed/crank angle, MAP, water temp, knock, and possibly air temp. > >Desired outputs: 'points' output for as many coils as required. 1,2 or 4. Cooling fan out put. RS232 monitor port. High speed interface for sensor output to possible further extension blocks. > > >Reasons: My engine is a 4 pot normally aspirated 1.5 liter engine. Its distributor is shot, and needs replacing. It eats points, and condensers and coils, and no there is no fault, all spitfires do this! > >Sensing: Speed and position from a machined chain sprocket bolted to the front pulley (which in my case is keyed in one position to the end of the crank), with 36 or 24 teeth. Pickup is to be the digital magnetic pickup from RS components , it costs 16 UK Pounds or about 35 bucks to anybody over there if I have to send them (if you guys cant buy them). MAP to be measure using MPX4250A, about 30 bucks (up to 36 psi, so that allows turbots up to about 22 psi boost. Knock: haven't even thought about this one yet, all suggestions welcome . Water temp, million and one ways of doing this. > >Processor: 68 something (but only if I'm doing the programming, if you want to join, and do the software, I'll adapt to what you like) >On the fly re mapping, in flash. >All information to be made available to other systems on request, by serial coms. >High speed programmable pulse chains indicating TDCs, firing points etc. for accurate timing by other systems (possible fuel inj?) and scope= diagnostics. >Remote control of ignition events by other systems (e.g., revlimiter, traction control etc.) > >Extra sensor input from current points, to allow initial map to be built from currently working mechanical system. > >CUT TO THE CHASE: > >Order of development: > > >Sensors first. > >Chose sensors, and design their interfaces, then test. >Design software. >Chose uP >Design system. >Test system and refine. > >Up shot.. publish the sensors and interfaces , so that other scratch builders can just do a building block design on their own hardware. If at the point I go 68xx(x) they want to go PC or Z80 or anything else, they can, and the software design can be followed and implemented, even if they cant use the code. > >Things needed immediately: > >Suitable temp sensor, and a knock sensor, and preferably their interface schematics if anybody has a suitable solution to these two questions, I would dearly like to hear from them. > >Does anybody want to join this idea.. or am I on my own for this one? > >A good programmer would be a bonus, I can do it, but I would prefer to let somebody else do it. I am prepared to add dedicated hardware for doing timing, and interrupt control, and stuff like that. Anything that makes the programming easier. ;-) > >Mark > >(Who has decided to stop messing around and get on with it) > Hi Mark I posted this a week ago and did not get any reply=92s=20 / Hi all=20 / / I would like to build a simple ign retard box similar to the ones by Jacobs and many others, i have a=20 / 84 RX-7 GSL-SE this is the first year they put a 13B with fuel injection., i will be adding a Vortech=20 / supercharger soon and i was thinking a using a MSD with boost retard but hey this list is up to this task. / The rotary engine has a similar firing as a 4Cyl engine so don=92t be= afraid of it !=20 / / I would prefer to use a 68HC11, i have a proto board for this. / / I plan on locking the mechanical and vacuum advance and us a lookup table. /=20 / The ign pulse would come from the magnetic pickup process it, then send it to the amplifier and to the coil. / / Ultimately there would be a knock sensor just for safety if ever i go over board with the timing or get a bad / batch of gasoline, but the main input for controlling the amount of retard would be vacuum/boost and=20 / RPM. / / If this is to complex maybe just have everything left alone and retard the timing proportional to boost. / / I could build the board program EPROM=92s but where i lack the most is in the software skills kneaded for / this type of project any one interested give me a buzz. =20 So as you can see i am very interested Why would you use a temp sensor =20 =20 For a knock sensor you could use the Harris HIP9010 =20 Features =7F Two Sensor Inputs =7F Microprocessor Programmable =7F Accurate Filter Elements =7F Digitally Programmable Gain =7F Digitally Programmable Time Constants =7F Stable Analog Filter Characteristics =7F On-Chip Clock Operating Temperature Range -40 o C to +125 o C Applications =7F Engine Knock Detector Processor =7F Analog Signal Processing where Controllable Filter Characteristics are Required and for MAP i would suggest a standard GM or Ford part they are easy to get and are available in the 1,2,3 BAR range for people not requiring the 3 BAR it would give a better resolution they use a lower BAR value, the EFI_332 list are using a 58X wheel as a crank trigger i also would prefer to use this wheel because when the 332 MPU is finished i would use it to control the FI and INJ all in one box. See Ya =20 // Marchildon@xxx.net // // Alain Marchildon // // 1984 Mazda RX-7 GSL-SE Soon with Vortech supercharger "My toy // // 1989 Audi 90 "Family car" // ------------------------------ From: Stephen Dubovsky Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 13:06:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Air Flow Meter Modification ... > If you're more ambitious, you could always build a circuit using one of > the non-restrictive Hitachi MAF sensors, use a Pic16 or 68HC11 and a ... MAF - mass air flow? Like a hot wire sensor? If so, what are their part numbers? Am looking for a hot wire sensor. Was thinking of getting one from a junkyard (anyone know of a car that uses them?) and modifying it instead of going through the hassle of building one w/ precision thermistors/thermocouples. Tnx, SMD ------------------------------ From: Mark Pitts Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 00:04:55 +-100 Subject: RE: IGNITION PROJECT - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBB7D1.580FD0E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sounds like a very good idea to me. It would be interesting along the way to have your wish list, as it is = your project at the beginning, to see if we can integrate them into what = it grows into. As to digitising, if you have access to a good camera, photo CD is a = 'cheap' one off way of doing it, but look at the prints before having = the negs put on disk. Mark - ---------- From: jac@xxx.us] Sent: Friday, October 11, 1996 3:30 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: RE: IGNITION PROJECT=20 Mark, I have this project up and running with lots of hours on it. The software works well but others could improve it of course. The board is about six inched long and three inches tall. A four=20 line by 20 character LCD sits in the front. =20 For a number of reasons, the main board should be moved to a larger=20 box and the present format of 6 X 3 be retained for I/O functions in=20 dash mounted box. There is lots of room for participation and=20 contribution to the project. I think that it is important to agree=20 on format and direction so that the work can be parceled to the=20 participants. I will post the whole project if people want to work on it and=20 improve it. I am not the least bit interested in distributing a=20 bunch of code and drawings so that folks can argue about processors=20 or programming technique without contributing significantly to the=20 project. The present board needs a little work, some traces have been cut and=20 jumped but about one more iteration would get finish it up. I can=20 produce printer files for the present board. I would like to figure=20 out a way to post hand drawings of schematics. Perhaps scanned=20 images. A board and code exist for a test fixture that lets one=20 simulate engine conditions and run the whole thing on the bench. I use assembled 8052 code for the core code and Basic, compiled and=20 assembled with Systronix's compiler, for the '232 and LCD screen I/O=20 routines. The box has buttons that can be used to modify the=20 inservice action of the device. One version of the code runs on a=20 much smaller controller with no inservice I/O but has the same=20 control functions. The processor is a Phillips 87C550. When I build more of these, the=20 logic will mostly move to an FPGA. The code will move directly to=20 CAN capable devices. There is no reason to build the coil driver circuitry when GM does=20 such a beautiful job of packaging the entire works for four and six=20 cylinder engines. Two units will work for eights. GM MAP and=20 variable reluctance magnetic pickups are a great bargain. All of=20 these parts are hardened for an automotive environment and are=20 available at every auto parts store. The toughest procurement is for=20 wire ends to match the propritory GM configurations. They are=20 available though. The parts are a bargain, but not necessarily cheap. The same is true=20 for my time and probably yours.=20 The GM components add up to about $200 new, aftermarket. I have=20 several wide temperature '550 available and some cases. More are=20 available. This may not be the proper forum for this project and I=20 do not have the time to manage another one. If I figure out how to=20 use it I guess I have an FTP site available. If you are interested=20 in extending this project, post your thoughts or e-mail direct.=20 - ------------------------------------- john carroll jac@xxx.us - ---------------Original Message--------------- New question.. might develop into a thread, but I'm hoping to start=20 a discussion, and follow the whole design process through to a=20 running system. Objective: Replace the distributor and points with a blob with some=20 inteligence. Desired sensors: Combined engine speed/crank angle, MAP, water temp,=20 knock, and possibly air temp. Desired outputs: 'points' output for as many coils as required. 1,2=20 or 4. Cooling fan out put. RS232 monitor port. High speed interface=20 for sensor output to possible further extension blocks. Reasons: My engine is a 4 pot normally aspirated 1.5 liter engine.=20 Its distributor is shot, and needs replacing. It eats points, and=20 condensers and coils, and no there is no fault, all spitfires do=20 this! Sensing: Speed and position from a machined chain sprocket bolted to=20 the front pulley (which in my case is keyed in one position to the=20 end of the crank), with 36 or 24 teeth. Pickup is to be the digital=20 magnetic pickup from RS components , it costs 16 UK Pounds or about=20 35 bucks to anybody over there if I have to send them (if you guys=20 cant buy them). MAP to be measure using MPX4250A, about 30 bucks (up=20 to 36 psi, so that allows turbos up to about 22 psi boost. Knock:=20 haven't even thought about this one yet, all suggestions welcome .=20 Water temp, million and one ways of doing this. Processor: 68 something (but only if I'm doing the programming, if=20 you want to join, and do the software, I'll adapt to what you like) On the fly re mapping, in flash. All information to be made available to other systems on request, by=20 serial coms. High speed programmable pulse chains indicating TDCs, firing points=20 etc for accurate timing by other systems (possible fuel inj?) and=20 scope diagnostics. Remote controll of ignition events by other systems (eg, revlimiter,=20 traction control etc) Extra sensor input from current points, to allow initial map to be=20 built from currently working mechanical system. CUT TO THE CHASE: Order of development: Sensors first. Chose sensors, and design their interfaces, then test. Design software. Chose uP Design system. Test system and refine. Up shot.. publish the sensors and interfaces , so that other scratch=20 builders can just do a building block design on their own hardware.=20 If at the point I go 68xx(x) they want to go PC or Z80 or anything=20 else, they can, and the software design can be followed and=20 implemented, even if they cant use the code. Things needed imediatly: Suitable temp sensor, and a knock sensor, and preferably their=20 interface schematics if anybody has a suitable solution to these two=20 questions, I would dearly like to hear from them. Does anybody want to join this idea.. or am I on my own for this=20 one? A good programmer would be a bonus, I can do it, but I would prefer=20 to let somebody else do it. I am prepared to add dedicated hardware=20 for doing timing, and interrupt control, and stuff like that.=20 Anything that makes the programming easier. ;-) Mark (Who has decided to stop messing around and get on with it) - ----------End of Original Message---------- - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBB7D1.580FD0E0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhcXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AGQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AFNNVFAAZGl5X2VmaUBj b3Vsb21iLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACMA AABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgAB MAEAAAAlAAAAJ2RpeV9lZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAA KAAAAFNNVFA6RElZX0VGSUBDT1VMT01CLkVORy5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA9xNAQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgB 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