DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 16 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 315 In this issue: ALDL Data Stream . . ?! Re: efi-332 web site Re: K-Jetronic with lambda oscillations Re: efi-332 web site Haltech E6GM (was GM controllers) Re: Cap discharge Re: Cap discharge Bosch Technical Info Re: Gm Controllers Re: Bosch Technical Info GM EGR Re: Gm Controllers See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tiw3edan@xxx.de (Eduard Anna) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:09:45 +0100 (MET) Subject: ALDL Data Stream . . ?! Hello, I am looking for some information on how to connect an PC to an GM TBI 700 (or any similar). I also want to get some information on the "ALDL Data Stream". thnx in advance (and please excuse my bad english) Bye Eddy . . . . ------------------------------ From: pkb00523@xxx.edu (Len Hochendoner) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:06:57 -0400 Subject: Re: efi-332 web site I have had the same problem. Does anyone know what the issue is? Len Hochendoner > >Hey, is any one else having difficulty connecting to the efi332 web site. >I've trying for 2 weeks and nothing at all. Here is the address I've been >using. Tell me if it is wrong. > > http://www.cim.swin.edu.au/~aden/web-docs/efi332/332_index.html > >This is getting bothersome. > >Thanks > >Bill Boulton. > > > > ------------------------------ From: atsakiri@xxx.com Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 07:50:34 -0400 Subject: Re: K-Jetronic with lambda oscillations > one of the problems is that i have no real technical book that describes > the controller employed by the system. i can only assume that it is a PI > controller but i do not know is the controller is completely digital or if > there's an analog part as well. I doubt you're dealing with a PI controller. It's probably a bang-bang controller. The feedback from the exhaust gas sensor is almost binary. > -any bosch technical literature on the K-Jetronic computer? if yes where > can i find it. There's a 25 page chapter on KE-Jetronic in Bosch's Automotive Electrics/Electronics Systems book (ISBN 1-560 91-596-X). You can get a copy through SAE (400 Commonwealth Dr., Warrendale, PA, 15096-001 USA). I think it costs around US$35. Anthony Tsakiris - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employer. ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.au Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 18:53:00 Subject: Re: efi-332 web site Connect to the US site, it works every time Dan dzorde@xxx.au P.S. Jaycar may still have the CDI kit ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: efi-332 web site Author: diy_efi@xxx.edu at INTERNET Date: 10/15/96 4:25 PM Hey, is any one else having difficulty connecting to the efi332 web site. I've trying for 2 weeks and nothing at all. Here is the address I've been using. Tell me if it is wrong. http://www.cim.swin.edu.au/~aden/web-docs/efi332/332_index.html This is getting bothersome. Thanks Bill Boulton. ------------------------------ From: txhartma@xxx.com (Terry Hartman) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:56:14 -0500 Subject: Haltech E6GM (was GM controllers) > > From: Jennifer Rose > > Hi Peter > > Thanks for the infomation. My project is 74 chevy pu with a TPI unit out of > an 86 Camaro. The pu has been running for 2 years with the TPI unit. The > main problem is hot restarts on a warm day. Wanted to remove the cold start > injector and replace software from a 89 calpak. Other big problem is the > negative back pressure EGR valve sets a code 32 under loads. Also wanted to > change curves to better suit a pu. Any help would be wonderful. > > Thanks Vance I assume that you've kept the MAF since it's the '86 ECM... Anyway, I just heard about a Haltech E6GM controller that is supposed to be a "plug-in" replacement for -some- of the older GM ECMs. I guess I could call Haltech & get the real scoop on what the E6Gm will fit. I do know that it will require removal of the MAF.... Does anyone have any insight on the Haltech E6GM? Please feel free to repond... thanks, T. - -- Terry Hartman in Sachse, Tx txhartma@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: cloud@xxx.edu (tom cloud) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:12:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Cap discharge >Any body know where to start looking for a cap discharge schematic, or any other info for that matter. > >Mark I could probably help -- actually, I have a couple of old CDI units. Can't remember name. CDI diy was real popular in the 60's and 70's; were lots of magazine articles in Popular Electronics, etc. Tom Cloud ------------------------------ From: cloud@xxx.edu (tom cloud) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:22:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Cap discharge >Hi Mark > >Not too much help but from memory heathkit used to make a CD box. >Also check Radio electronics mag many years ago. Cd boxes have gone >a bit into history. *** how do you figger?? Seems t' me little has changed. Someone pleez tell I'm wrong, but we still use auto-transformers (coils) to generate high voltages, and that voltage comes from the 12 volt supply. Points closed, built up mag field (dwell) and opened causing high spark volt. Then, along came "transistor" in which a transistor replaced the points. Better, but still crummy. Then came CDI. No 'dwell' current in coil. No points to burn or transistor to carry coil current. Just a little oscillator to charge a cap to about 300 volts and an SCR to pulse it into the coil. A redesigned coil worked better, but the old ones worked okay. Now, seems mfgrs still sell transistor ignition (what's in the Ford DuraSpark ???). Then, they sell 'upgrades' that are still CDI. MSD is a CDI (note, all coils will 'ring' and produce multi-sparks -- I guess (or hope) they just tune for an optimum system). Tom Cloud ------------------------------ From: William Boulton Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:46:34 +1000 (EST) Subject: Bosch Technical Info For anyone interested in a good read, Bosch do a series of small booklets on various automotive topics in a series they call "Technical Instruction Booklets". Very well presented and CHEAP (A$6.50). Titles include "Mono-Jetronic", "Engine Electronics", "Motronic", "L-Jetronic", etc. A BIG list and all good. Bill Boulton ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:41:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Gm Controllers At 10:33 PM 10/14/96 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Peter > >Thanks for the infomation. My project is 74 chevy pu with a TPI unit out of >an 86 Camaro. The pu has been running for 2 years with the TPI unit. The >main problem is hot restarts on a warm day. Wanted to remove the cold start >injector and replace software from a 89 calpak. Other big problem is the >negative back pressure EGR valve sets a code 32 under loads. Also wanted to >change curves to better suit a pu. Any help would be wonderful. > >Thanks Vance > High Vance, I've got an '89 TPI in my '58 chevy truck. Runs almost perfect. Perfect if you don't count that annoying code 32 after 15 minutes at speeds above 60mph. My EGR valve is known to be bad. I can't pull vacuum in it unless the motor is running. Can't figure out the failure mechanism but I'm sure it's bad. I disconnected the vac line to the EGR and called it FIXED. BTW, bad hesitation with the valve connected. Is the engine running rich or lean during the hot restart? My first suspect would be coolant and manifold air temp sensors. These are cheap and available at the bone yards. The cold start injector is not used above a certian temp (don't know specifics). I can't help you with the cold start mods. Don't know enough too do you any good. It's hard to believe that the only difference between the two is software. Think about it, 4 years and 1,000,000 units produced, when a few lines of code would have eliminated lots of hardware and parts that could break. One tight wad engineer said, "Parts you don't use never wear out!" If an GM engineer (or who ever knows) would spill the beans on this, I"ll ask the next sexy woman I see to dinner. My ECM is 1227165 I DON'T THINK you will damage any thing by swapping the Prom but be aware of VATS. As far as changing "curves to better suit a pu", consider this. My rear end is '75 chevy truck 2.73 - 1. The formula 1 Bird the TPI came from is, you guesed it, 2.73 - 1. The 58 tips the scale at about 4600lbs, I think the bird was 3,800 (if I'm off by a pound please don't torch me). Rather than tamper with perfection, why not O.D. the truck? I'll be going 700R real soon. GMD ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:46:02 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Bosch Technical Info At 07:46 AM 10/16/96 +1000, you wrote: >For anyone interested in a good read, > >Bosch do a series of small booklets on various automotive topics in a >series they call "Technical Instruction Booklets". Very well presented and >CHEAP (A$6.50). Titles include "Mono-Jetronic", "Engine Electronics", >"Motronic", "L-Jetronic", etc. A BIG list and all good. > >Bill Boulton > Who sells the "Technical Instruction Booklets". GMD ------------------------------ From: Jennifer Rose Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 20:22:10 -0700 Subject: GM EGR George EGR valve in this system is a negative back pressure valve. Believe EGR depends on back pressure from exhuast system to work correctly. Since my pu is dual exhuast with out cats, back pressure probaly nil. Just need to increase back pressure :( or fiqure how to change valve. So don't throw your valve away yet. At hot temp(at or above 100 deg F outside air temp) starts in my pu are very long and have to press on throttle alittle. So I'm more than likely lean. The cold start injector sprays during start for 8sec at 35 deg F to nothig at about 100 deg F . Hope my info is correct. Also my info indicates the same ECM was used from 86-89, 1227165. The cold Start injector was deleted in 89 and replace with wider inj pulse width at start up. In 87 VATS was added to some systems. I have purchased a 89 calpak from GM, just need to bypass VATS. Prefer to do in software instead of using hardware. My pu is a 4x4 at 4300 lbs, 3.73 gears, turbo 400, 205 transfer case. Vance ------------------------------ From: peter paul fenske Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:39:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Gm Controllers Hi Vance and George The egr in these things up to 89 or so will generate a trouble code if it doesn't get hot enough. It uses a thermal switch. When the computer commands egr , shortly thereafter it will check for the thermal switch to be activated. If not a code 32 is the result. I presume a cat is not used. Thus without any backpressure the egr operation is different than originally planned. Tinkering with the switch location might help. Also in the code the eror table can be modified but I have yet to try it. Also make sure that the PW modulator for the egr gets ported vacum. Do not directly connect vacum to the EGR. Use a mytec pump to check its operation. When a TPI vehicle is run without a cat, perhaps souped up a bit with headers it will tend to run lean in open loop modes. These are wot and start, and warmup modes. If you want to fix this you can enrichen the mix by increasing the fuel pressure to about 50 PSI. Closed loop should easily handle this with the block learn. Otherwise you will have to get into the code. Egr operation for 90-92 is simpler. The ECM activates the egr at 50 MPH or so and looks for a corresponding change in Map. Thus you don't have to worry about a silly thermal switch. To change to a 90-92 730 ecm you need to purchase one C-D 32 pin connector from GM and one Map sensor. Use the previous post to defeat VATS. Use a 91 camaro wiring diagram to upgrade yours. GL: peter ps i need a MAF when you are finished. ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #315 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".