DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, 5 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 335 In this issue: Re: Virus Re: Virus Re: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe Re: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe Re: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe Re: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe Re: Virus re: Re: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe Re: virus RE: Ignition List RE: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe Re: Ford Throtlle Position Sensors Re: BurnRate/Octane/RPM/Advance Re: Wide range O2 sensors Re: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe Re: BurnRate/Octane/RPM/Advance Re: Question...Timing of fuel delivery Re: Question...Timing of fuel delivery See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cloud@xxx.edu (tom cloud) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 07:25:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Virus >M HILL wrote: >> >> >If the program is not stopped, the computer's processor will >> >be placed in an nth-complexity infinite binary loop - which can >> >severely damage the processor if left running that way too long. >> >Unfortunately, most >> >> Does anybody know potential values for n? Does it only damage the >> processor for certain values of n or are all values dangerous? >> >> Martin > >the bigger n the more dangereous the loop is >as I can remember my machine code lessons the processor temp relates >to n like >increase in TEMP = orig T + exp(n-40) >where 40 is the maximum stack value >note that the increase depends on the original temp >so just by cooling the proc you can lower the damage in your computer >if you can keep it under 40 deg celsius it'll survive with a light >alzheimer effect on the address and arithmetic units > >bye >charley Yuck - Yuck Tom Cloud ------------------------------ From: cloud@xxx.edu (tom cloud) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:02:33 -0600 Subject: Re: Virus >>> >If the program is not stopped, the computer's processor will >>> >be placed in an nth-complexity infinite binary loop - which can >>> >severely damage the processor if left running that way too long. >>> >Unfortunately, most >>> >>> Does anybody know potential values for n? Does it only damage the >>> processor for certain values of n or are all values dangerous? >>the bigger n the more dangereous the loop is >>as I can remember my machine code lessons the processor temp relates >>to n like >>increase in TEMP = orig T + exp(n-40) >>where 40 is the maximum stack value >>note that the increase depends on the original temp >>so just by cooling the proc you can lower the damage in your computer >>if you can keep it under 40 deg celsius it'll survive with a light >>alzheimer effect on the address and arithmetic units >Yuck - Yuck Dunno if it was to this list, but this reminds me of a particularly cruel post I made regarding heatsinking TO-220 transistor packages. I noted that one could use tabs cut from Coca-Cola cans and then remarked that Pepsi cans wouldn't work. Some trusting soul wrote back asking if there were really any difference, and I replied 'yep'. (Main difference is that I don't drink that nasty stuff?) At any rate, I thought that was amusing (maybe only to me), and harmless. This stuff about 'mth' or 'nth' or 'jth' loops ( 'm' and 'n' loops are real nos. while 'jth' loops are integer -- right ??) is also amusing and harmless -- but there are some innocents on the list that (heh-heh) obviously believe all this stuff. Maybe it's part of a steep learning curve? All I know is, I'm a real dummy about reciprocating engine fine points, and Todd Knighton and many others on this list could have had some real fun with me if they'd wanted to -- I'm grateful that they respected my ignorance and werer kind enough to try to shed some light into the dark recesses of what little gray matter I have left. Summary: the virus stuff, processor destruct code sequences (and monitor smoke release algorithms) are fun, but not if it causes someone to be embarassed or to quit the list. Tom Cloud ------------------------------ From: Dimos Katsis Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:04:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe On Sun, 3 Nov 1996, George M. Dailey wrote: > We had a string going about the Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe a while ago. > Has any one been able to evaluate this product? A sales brochure from the > shack shows it is now available (still $99.99). It sounds too good to be > true. A hand held scope with pc interface and software. Is it? > > GMD > > I would also like to hear about the capabilities of this strange and wonderful probe. I understand that it also has a 5 Mhz BW. However they do call it a "logic" probe which probably means that it has a limited voltage input range. Maybe even missing the input differential amplifier. Thanks, Dimos Katsis ------------------------------ From: Gordon Couger Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 11:46:04 -0600 Subject: Re: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe >> >I would also like to hear about the capabilities of this strange and >wonderful probe. I understand that it also has a 5 Mhz BW. However they >do call it a "logic" probe which probably means that it has a limited >voltage input range. Maybe even missing the input differential amplifier. > It has a 100 volt limit. It is a 20 MHz scope that fair representation at 5 MHz 4 points per cycle. Gordon ------------------------------ From: Jason Walters Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 10:10:40 -0800 Subject: Re: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe Dimos Katsis wrote: > > On Sun, 3 Nov 1996, George M. Dailey wrote: > > > We had a string going about the Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe a while ago.... I'd also like to know some specifics. My project and my sanity could benefit greatly from an oscilloscope. I was in Radio Crack just the other day, and I asked, off the cuff, if they had an oscilloscope. I was blown away that they actually had one. It does indeed look like a logic probe, with a cute little LCD display on the side. It looks like a neat toy (pardon me, tool) but I don't know jack about the different oscilloscopes on the market. Is there a better scope I could put my $100 into? ($150 is my limit. I'll pay a little more if it doesn't say "Tandy") Or is this scope truly a good deal? Maybe I should get over my Radio Crack bigotry. Jason jasonw@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Jason Walters Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 10:10:40 -0800 Subject: Re: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe Dimos Katsis wrote: > > On Sun, 3 Nov 1996, George M. Dailey wrote: > > > We had a string going about the Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe a while ago.... I'd also like to know some specifics. My project and my sanity could benefit greatly from an oscilloscope. I was in Radio Crack just the other day, and I asked, off the cuff, if they had an oscilloscope. I was blown away that they actually had one. It does indeed look like a logic probe, with a cute little LCD display on the side. It looks like a neat toy (pardon me, tool) but I don't know jack about the different oscilloscopes on the market. Is there a better scope I could put my $100 into? ($150 is my limit. I'll pay a little more if it doesn't say "Tandy") Or is this scope truly a good deal? Maybe I should get over my Radio Crack bigotry. Jason jasonw@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Jason Walters Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 10:11:34 -0800 Subject: Re: Virus Can we let the virus thing die? Gettin' Old. Jason ------------------------------ From: SRavet@xxx.com Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 13:11:40 CST Subject: re: Re: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe Jason Walters Wrote: | | Dimos Katsis wrote: | > | > On Sun, 3 Nov 1996, George M. Dailey wrote: | > | > > We had a string going about the Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe a while | ago.... | | I'd also like to know some specifics. My project and my sanity could | benefit greatly from an oscilloscope. I was in Radio Crack just the | other day, and I asked, off the cuff, if they had an oscilloscope. I | was blown away that they actually had one. It does indeed look like a | logic probe, with a cute little LCD display on the side. It looks like | a neat toy (pardon me, tool) but I don't know jack about the different | oscilloscopes on the market. | | Is there a better scope I could put my $100 into? ($150 is my limit. | I'll pay a little more if it doesn't say "Tandy") | | Or is this scope truly a good deal? | Maybe I should get over my Radio Crack bigotry. | | Jason | jasonw@xxx.com | | | A company called Wittig Test Technology in Germany has been running ads in EDN for what looks like the same thing. It looks like a logic probe, has a little LCD display on the side, and a row of buttons along the top. Includes software for DOS & windows. The ad doesn't have many specifics. I've sent off for more info, I'll post when I get it. The price in the ad is also $99.99 qty 1. If you want to see the ad look for "Wittig Testelektronik" in the advertisers index. - --steve Steve Ravet sravet@xxx.com Baby you're a genius when it comes to cooking up some chili sauce... ------------------------------ From: Todd King Date: Mon, 04 Nov 96 11:39:00 PST Subject: Re: virus <<< so just by cooling the proc you can lower the damage in your computer if you can keep it under 40 deg celsius it'll survive with a light alzheimer effect on the address and arithmetic units bye charley >>> *Haw-haw!!* Imagine the effects on the branch prediction unit and dynamic execution tracker! A little Alzheimer probably goes along way here! :-) Todd Todd_King@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Mark Pitts Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 20:44:14 -0000 Subject: RE: Ignition List - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBCA93.5FE58060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a good question, I dont quite now, I'll ask Simon and get back to you. Mark - ---------- From: Mark Eidson[SMTP:mark.eidson@xxx.com] Sent: 29 October 1996 15:28 To: diy_efi@xxx.org Subject: Re: Ignition List It seems that the ignition list works differently than the diy_efi list. My first post to the list was received by some because there was a response. I did not receive my own post but did receive the following which indicated that my original post did not get thru. Is this the way it is supposed to work, did I not post it correctly or is it broken? _______________________________________________________________________________ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:41:37 GMT From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown To: Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) This is a MIME-encapsulated message - --QAA23740.846520897/keg.zymurgy.org The original message was received at Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:28:23 GMT from tweety.vlsi.com [134.27.20.23] ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications ----- kwi@xxx.fi (unrecoverable error) (expanded from: ":include:/home/saxon/ignition.list") mail.inav.net@xxx.net (unrecoverable error) (expanded from: ":include:/home/saxon/ignition.list") rmcelroyAsan1.anza.com (unrecoverable error) (expanded from: ":include:/home/saxon/ignition.list") ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 /home/saxon/ignition.list: line 26: rmcelroyAsan1.anza.com... 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+bPHybsBQAAIMID7+bPHybsBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAADPdQ== - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBCA93.5FE58060-- ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:53:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: RE: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe Ok gentlemen, have no mercy on the fax back server, excercise extreme prejudice! Those wealthy people who already own one, tell us what it will not do. How does it do in the noisy auto environment? Can it open antique soda bottles? GMD At 03:31 PM 11/4/96 -0600, you wrote: >The following information is available on our faxback service: > >ProbeScope V3.0 for Windows/DOS >(220-0310) Catalog Listing Faxback Doc. # >33352 > >33358 Care and Maintenance >33354 Features >34552 Hints and Tips >33357 MS-Windows Help >33356 Operation - Part 1 >33360 Operation - Part 2 >33355 Preparation >33353 Safety Instructions >33359 Specifications > >Our Faxback Server can be contacted by calling 1-800-323-6586. > >Thank you, > >TANDY PRODUCT SUPPORT CENTER >CC/gk > ---------- >From: George M. Dailey >To: support >Subject: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe >Date: Friday, June 07, 1996 1:51AM > >Please tell me everything I need to know about this exciting new >product. >It simply sounds too good to be true. This product was advertised >several >months ago. Your local stores could not obtain one. You may want to add >it to your product info listing. > >GMD > > ------------------------------ From: pantera@xxx.com (David Doddek) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:21:39 -0600 Subject: Re: Ford Throtlle Position Sensors >Hey there everyone . . . > >I have built a custom FI intake for my 5.0 Mustang and have designed to use >two throttle bodies of the stock size. My questions are: > >1) Providing the plate linkage is synchronized, do I need just one throttle >position sensor on one tb, or do I need both. If I need both, can I wire >them in series (wire them together and splice them into the existing wires >of the harness? If not, then what? Only use one sensor, providing the throttles open at the same time. You only need some type of signal indicating the general position of the throttle plates. >2) Must I use the emmissions stuff, or can I block off that area on both >(this is a race-only vehicle)? > If you are using the stock computer, then it should run OK, but disconnecting parts like the O2 sensors and egr will cause a diagnostic and could cause poor operation at low speed and power. Should not effect high power levels. >3) How about the EGR spacers? Need 'em or dump 'em? > They will increase the length of the intake track for more torque, otherwise you do not need them for racing. >Any help would be greatly appreciated! > No problem. David J. Doddek |pantera@xxx.com Owner SGD Electronics & Development Engr for Caterpillar |h 309 685-7965 Formula SAE Team Sidewinder 94-95 |w 309 578-2931 89 T-bird SC, 69 Fairlane w/SGD EFI |fx 217 428-4686 74 Pantera w/Electromotive Tec-II Twin turbos and Nitros | Hey, If you are going to go fast, go REEEAAL FAST. | ------------------------------ From: Darrell Norquay Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 04:24:52 GMT Subject: Re: BurnRate/Octane/RPM/Advance At 11:18 PM 10/31/96 -0500, you wrote: >Q2: can someone explain optimim spark advance calculation? Octane/burn >rate/piston speed/distance to TDC/??/?? used here? > >extra credit: for Q2- factor in higher intake pressure (15psi of turbo >boost) considerations. whats the reasoning behind reduced advance under >boost? Read the FAQ contained at http://www.vtr.org/maintain/gasoline-faq.html. Once you get past some of the chemistry, it contains a lot of information about gasolines, as well as a wealth of general knowledge about the cause and cure of knock. Although thia won't answer your question directly, it will fill in a lot of the blanks. Also take note of the bibliography in the FAQ, it contains references which may be invaluable to you in your quest for the perfect curve... regards dn dnorquay@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Doug Robson Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 15:38:38 +1100 Subject: Re: Wide range O2 sensors Chris Wilson wrote: > > Any pricing info on wide range O2 sensors in the USA? Here in the UK they are > ridiculously expensive,probably because we are about 10 years behind the USA > in emissions legislation and associated hardware. > The kind of device I am looking for is one that will read well above the > normal range,for engine dyno development work.Bosch does a Motorsports one,but > too dear....;-) > > -- > > Chris Wilson Thu, 24 Oct 1996 19:29 +0100 > Gatesgarth Racing Developments > Gatley,Cheshire,U.K. > Race Car Preparation and Development > http://195.102.33.46/~gategart > mailto:chris@xxx.com i dont know if i responded to this before bit i beleive 350 AUD - -- |===============================================================| | When I die, | | I want to go in my sleep, like my grandfather, | | not screaming like the passengers in his car. | |---------------------------------------------------------------| | Doug Robson (H) mailto:doug@xxx.au | | (W) mailto:Doug.Robson@xxx.com | | Sydney, Australia http://www.cia.com.au/doug | |---------------------------------------------------------------| | Club Car Racing Register of NSW | Thank God | | 1992/93 Under 2 litre State Champion | for | | http://www.cia.com.au/doug/ccrrnsw.html | Gravity | |===============================================================| ------------------------------ From: Darrell Norquay Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 04:53:37 GMT Subject: Re: Radio Shack Oscilloscope Probe At 10:10 AM 11/4/96 -0800, Jason (and others) wrote: >Is there a better scope I could put my $100 into? ($150 is my limit. >I'll pay a little more if it doesn't say "Tandy") > >Or is this scope truly a good deal? >Maybe I should get over my Radio Crack bigotry. > There is another nifty unit I've seen. I have the same heebie-jeebies about Radio Scrap as everyone else. Anyway, the unit is called the O-Scope I, it costs US169.95, and seems like a really great little device. It is a storage scope, spectrum analyzer, frequency counter, AND DVM, it's frequency range is DC to 50Khz (it wouldn't be good for uP's or most digital, but OK for audio and anything you'd find in an engine bay). It hooks up to the parallel port on a PC, and comes with software. I believe they have also recently come out with the O-Scope II, which does even more fancy stuff. The company is: Allison Technology Corp. 8343 Carvel Houston TX 77036 Phone 713-777-0401 Fax/BBS 713-777-4746 regards dn dnorquay@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Fred Miranda Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:31:30 -0800 Subject: Re: BurnRate/Octane/RPM/Advance A while ago there was a thread about thermal barrier coatings. One thing pointed out was that with coated pistons or combustion chamber, timing would have to be retarded somewhat. Does anyone have a feel for how much retard in a turbo engine? I am working on an Eclipse 2l turbo. (7.8 comp.) with coated pistons. It will only take 3-4 deg adv at 18psi on 92 oct. I've done other Eclipses with similar setups and gotten away with 18-20 deg and my 323GTX is happy with 18 or so. Would the coating make the engine any more sensitive to intake charge temps? Thanks Fred ------------------------------ From: Carl Haas Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:56:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Question...Timing of fuel delivery Thanks for the follow up >From your post, It appears that the timing of the fuel delivery is not all that critical. Is sequential FI then all hype? What do money-is-no-object race teams use? Anyway, if this is the case, what do you think of PWM controlled FI? This would only require an input proportional to RPM, and would not require crank or cam sensors. This would make my project a lot easier. You mentioned you were building a FI for your harley. Have you thought of separating the intake runners? Harley got a lot more torque and a smoother idle by doing this with the Road King. As far as complexity, I do not have anything nailed down yet. If what you say about the timing is true for my application, I may go the mapped route with just a TPS and RPM input along with numerous analog inputs wired to pots to "jet" the FI. My current plans are to use a Yamaha FJ1100(inline 4) as a test mule. Future plans include a small block chevy if all goes well. Thanks for the input Carl Haas ------------------------------ From: M HILL Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:18:53 GMT0BST Subject: Re: Question...Timing of fuel delivery > From your post, It appears that the timing of the fuel delivery is not > all that critical. Is sequential FI then all hype? What do > money-is-no-object race teams use? Anyway, if this is the case, what do > you think of PWM controlled FI? This would only require an input > proportional to RPM, and would not require crank or cam sensors. This > would make my project a lot easier. Sequential FI is not all hype. It is mainly used for emissions purposes, not for getting more power. Martin ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #335 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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