DIY_EFI Digest Sunday, 10 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 341 In this issue: Re: Bosch 4&3wire sensor Re: Forwarded: Re: Bosch 4&3wire sensor Re: Micro Dynamics Re: O2 Sensor Open/Close Loop 4&3wire sensor Open/Close Loop Hi Looking for information Prom Burners Re: Need help with Mazda EFI. Re: 2 stroke injection experiences? Re: 2 stroke injection experiences? See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Robson Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 23:19:55 +1000 Subject: Re: Bosch 4&3wire sensor tom cloud wrote: > > >Hi in a 4 wire O2 sensor you have sensor gnd, earth, heater =ve, and > >signal > >in a 3 wire heated is it common ground, and there fore will it upset my > >autronic SMC if i use the chassis ground effectively for both for this > >function. if i then conect sensor ground to chassis will this upset > >things???? > > > >have plenty of 3 wire ones free, 4 wire ones 350 dollars > > 4-wire sensor used on '91 F-150. ~ $90 from Ford. Found it > available on net for ~ $50. I'll get name if you want it. > > Tom Cloud please please please - -- |===============================================================| | When I die, | | I want to go in my sleep, like my grandfather, | | not screaming like the passengers in his car. | |---------------------------------------------------------------| | Doug Robson mailto:doug@xxx.au | | mailto:Doug.Robson@xxx.com | | Sydney, Australia http://www.cia.com.au/doug | |---------------------------------------------------------------| | Club Car Racing Register of NSW | Thank God | | 1992/93 Under 2 litre State Champion | for | | http://www.cia.com.au/doug/ccrrnsw.html | Gravity | |===============================================================| ------------------------------ From: Doug Robson Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 23:26:15 +1000 Subject: Re: Forwarded: Re: Bosch 4&3wire sensor RABBITT_Andrew@xxx.au wrote: > > check out the price on a Ford Mondeo HEGO, they're 4-wire jobs. On > the three-wire sensors, I'd guess (FWIW) that the heater is grounded > through the exhaust pipe, the other two wires are a differential > (floating) signal. The fourth wire is just a ground for the heater. > > From: (Fred Miranda) fcmtb@xxx.com:smtp > Date: ## 11/07/96 15:28 ## > Doug, > NTK makes low buck 4 wire units. > Mitsu Eclipses use them. > > Fred > > At 07:19 AM 11/8/96 +1100, you wrote: > >Hi in a 4 wire O2 sensor you have sensor gnd, earth, heater =ve, and > >signal > >in a 3 wire heated is it common ground, and there fore will it upset my > >autronic SMC if i use the chassis ground effectively for both for this > >function. if i then conect sensor ground to chassis will this upset > >things???? > > > >have plenty of 3 wire ones free, 4 wire ones 350 dollars > > > > > >-- > >|===============================================================| > >| When I die, | > >| I want to go in my sleep, like my grandfather, | > >| not screaming like the passengers in his car. | > >|---------------------------------------------------------------| > >| Doug Robson (H) mailto:doug@xxx.au | > >| (W) mailto:Doug.Robson@xxx.com | > >| Sydney, Australia http://www.cia.com.au/doug | > >|---------------------------------------------------------------| > >| Club Car Racing Register of NSW | Thank God | > >| 1992/93 Under 2 litre State Champion | for | > >| http://www.cia.com.au/doug/ccrrnsw.html | Gravity | > >|=== can i ask what you mean by differential signal other then voltage change?? regards - -- |===============================================================| | When I die, | | I want to go in my sleep, like my grandfather, | | not screaming like the passengers in his car. | |---------------------------------------------------------------| | Doug Robson mailto:doug@xxx.au | | mailto:Doug.Robson@xxx.com | | Sydney, Australia http://www.cia.com.au/doug | |---------------------------------------------------------------| | Club Car Racing Register of NSW | Thank God | | 1992/93 Under 2 litre State Champion | for | | http://www.cia.com.au/doug/ccrrnsw.html | Gravity | |===============================================================| ------------------------------ From: Chris Wilson Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 14:57:17 GMT Subject: Re: Micro Dynamics On Fri, 08 Nov 1996 22:58:45 -0800 DRM apparently said in mail.DIY_EFI: > > Does anyone have any experience with the English Micro-Dynamics EFI. I > believe they are out of business but I am contemplating purchase of a > used system for a V6 Alfa and wanted some opinion(s). Really want to get > rid of the AFM and I understand this one only has three inputs, Throttle > Position, MAP and 02 sensor. It was a crude system,and if typical of Micro Dynamics stuff should prove wonderfully unreliable :-) MBE and Weber Alpha are better UK sourced bets. Personally I favour Motec,which whilst expensive,is superbly supported and a dream to work with... - -- Chris Wilson Sat, 09 Nov 1996 14:23 GMT Gatesgarth Racing Developments Gatley,Cheshire,U.K. Race Car Preparation and Development http://195.102.33.46/~gategart mailto:chris@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Mark Mason Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 10:47:47 -0500 Subject: Re: O2 Sensor Open/Close Loop tom cloud wrote: > > I don't know for sure, but some calculation has to be made (is > it basically in speed-density mode ??? at WOT ???) Clearly, if > it's already speed-density, then it just goes with whatever calcs > or maps are set up for it. What do the OEM guys use to setup the map values for pulse vs RPM vs temp vs load? Mark Mason ------------------------------ From: peter paul fenske Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 08:28:42 -0800 Subject: 4&3wire sensor Hello Guys The heated ford sensor I use, Mustang and T bird 5.0 apps, uses three wires, The two whites are the heater element and they are floating. The black is the O2 signal and the return is vehicle gnd. Check out sensor construction why. This is commonly available from Napa dealers here for 45$ canadian admittably at a discount. CU: peter ------------------------------ From: peter paul fenske Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 08:32:34 -0800 Subject: Open/Close Loop At 10:47 AM 11/9/96 -0500, you wrote: >tom cloud wrote: >> >> I don't know for sure, but some calculation has to be made (is >> it basically in speed-density mode ??? at WOT ???) Clearly, if >> it's already speed-density, then it just goes with whatever calcs >> or maps are set up for it. > >What do the OEM guys use to setup the map values for pulse vs RPM vs >temp vs load? > > >Mark Mason Hi All At a certain percentage of tps which defines open loop, injector pulse width is determined by a rpm, vs pulswidth table with a correction for temp. At least for the general. Also closed loop operation is normally entered at a certain defined temp. with a check made on O2 sensor performance ie voltage swing. Later: peter ------------------------------ From: George & Jen <"kg2db@xxx.net> Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 16:09:48 -0800 Subject: Hi Looking for information Prom Burners Hi My name is George And im wondering if there is anyone out there Knows what prom burner is used for the GM sfi injection computer fron the 2.8 v6 gm motors. (computer pn#1227730) Working with this computer for my small block 350 tpi conversion Thanks - -- George KG2DB ------------------------------ From: Joe Aubertin Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 18:59:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Need help with Mazda EFI. At 07:06 PM 11/7/96 -0800, you wrote: >Fouled/flooded plugs may not fire a timing light. >Either change them or try setting a plug(still connected) on the engine and >watch for spark. > > >>Yeah, I strapped the timing light onto each of the three coils to check for >>spark and didn't get any on any of the coils. All of the switching >>transistors for firing the injectors are run by T304 on the board (that >>Toshiba Japan IC I asked about), and I checked the transistors last night >>(sort of) and it appears that they are ok. That pretty much only leaves the >>IC that drives them. I had a similar problem on my 88 Mustang GT. I have Accel 8.8 Spiral Race Wires (junk very high resistance and will be replaced in the spring) My timing light did not work and i borrowed a wire off a buddy's Chev 305, and voila, timing light worked perfectly. I thought it was the light, so i bought another one...same prob, now i have 2 good lights, and still bad wires. /\----/\ | O..O | ____________o00o__|______|__oOOo___________________________________________ Joe Aubertin 1988 Ford Mustang GT ... no time slips...YET! Ontario TFS TW heads, GT40 intake, E303, 24 lb inj., Canada Scorpian 1.60 Roller Rockers, Pro-M Bullet, Brock University Dynomax 2.5" catback sys (LX style under GT Comp Sci major skirt), Autometer Tach #3905, water temp, oil & fuel press., TCI Rattler balancer, 190 lph fuel pump, K&N air filter, MSD 6AL, Hurst Competition + shifter, 65mm T-Body Center Force DF Clutch & LOTS more to come **Thanks to all subscribers of 5.0 ML, and Fordnatics for your help and generosity...w/o you guys i'd still be stock** email: ja95ad@xxx.com NEW! my web page: http://www.cosc.brocku.ca/~ja95ad/ ___________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Todd Knighton Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 17:41:37 -0800 Subject: Re: 2 stroke injection experiences? John Faubion wrote: > > 3) at 14,000 plus RPM the time to fire an injector is only ~4 ms > > That last one is probably the killer. Four milliseconds is beyond the > current limits of injector technology. Why not just use pulse width modulation vs. firing the things every TDC or every other TDC. Many of the CIS, Continuous Injection Systems give good atomization and certainly don't fire at TDC. If you just mounted the injectors upstream a little bit or even fired them upstream you could be guaranteed a homogenious mixture as well as reducing the inlet temp to pick up horsepower. The F1 cars are running 14,000 plus RPM and 8, 10 and 12 cylinders with very good fuel injection, so it's definately possible and very reliable. Todd Knighton Protomotive Engineering ------------------------------ From: "John Faubion" Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 00:44:09 -0600 Subject: Re: 2 stroke injection experiences? > John Faubion wrote: > > > > 3) at 14,000 plus RPM the time to fire an injector is only ~4 ms > > > > That last one is probably the killer. Four milliseconds is beyond the > > current limits of injector technology. > > Why not just use pulse width modulation vs. firing the things every TDC > or every other TDC. Many of the CIS, Continuous Injection Systems give Good point especially since the fuel/oil mixture still has to go through the block to lubricate things first. I guess I've been thinking sequentially for too long. 8) ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #341 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".