DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 29 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 364 In this issue: Re: flow bench, little EFI content Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter Re: flow bench, little EFI content Re: Fiero ECM codes for 1985 and 1986 6 cylinder applications [none] needhams emp-20 device programmer RE: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter Re: your mail Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter ALDL stuff Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter Re: GM ALDL converter how to id an ECM crankshaft/flywheel encoder patterns See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mazda Ebrahimi Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 08:31:36 -0500 Subject: Re: flow bench, little EFI content Peter Juergens wrote: > > Hi all, > > thanks a lot for that fast response everyone! > > I might get that book Michael refered too first. > > Mazda writes: > big snip: > >you should get a brochure from Superflow that might give > >you some ideas. > > Mazda, could you tell my poor soul how I could contact Superflow? > I even haven't heard a thing about them. > > TIA and > -- > BFN Pete _____ 1962 TR4 daily > -- - - / <> \ __,@_\____ Peter Juergens > - --- '--0--'~~'--0-----0-> PiJay@xxx.de > !! Only the one with the fastest toy wins !! Dortmund/Germany Superflow is a leading manufacturer of engine test equipment, including automated engine dynos, chassis dynos, and flow benches. I only have the number for their Detroit sales office, but they are based out of Colorado. Michael Waller Superflow Corporation 36875 Schoolcraft Rd. Livonia, MI 48150 (313)464-4333 (area code may have changed recently) I read some of the messages regarding building simple flow benches. I think their methods are more than adequate for must of us on a budget. The Superflow stuff is good if you want absolute measurements, so you can compare your results with somebody else. But for seeing if a change improves your design, a simple system will do fine. Anyway, it won't hurt to look at Superflow's product line, and dream...... Best Regards, Mazda ------------------------------ From: "John Faubion" Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 08:49:04 -0600 Subject: Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter > Why bother? > > Serial I/O is designed to be able to handle at least a 5% error in clock rates > between sender and receiver. Using 8228 instead of 8192 is less than 0.5% > error. Mike if this works then why are there not more people doing this? The software should be easy and the cable should be easier. Additionally if its that easy, why did Diacom spend the time to write software to adapt to a parallel port? 8{) John Faubion jfaubion@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: neilaura@xxx.com (Laura & Neil Powell) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 08:34:53 -0800 Subject: Re: flow bench, little EFI content You wrote: > >Peter Juergens wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> thanks a lot for that fast response everyone! >> >> I might get that book Michael refered too first. >> >> Mazda writes: >> big snip: >> >you should get a brochure from Superflow that might give >> >you some ideas. >> >> Mazda, could you tell my poor soul how I could contact Superflow? >> I even haven't heard a thing about them. >> >> TIA and >> -- >> BFN Pete _____ 1962 TR4 daily >> -- - - / <> \ __,@_\____ Peter Juergens >> - --- '--0--'~~'--0-----0-> PiJay@xxx.de >> !! Only the one with the fastest toy wins !! Dortmund/Germany > > >Superflow is a leading manufacturer of engine test equipment, including >automated engine dynos, chassis dynos, and flow benches. I only have >the number for their Detroit sales office, but they are based out of >Colorado. > >Michael Waller >Superflow Corporation >36875 Schoolcraft Rd. >Livonia, MI 48150 >(313)464-4333 (area code may have changed recently) > >I read some of the messages regarding building simple flow benches. I >think their methods are more than adequate for must of us on a budget. >The Superflow stuff is good if you want absolute measurements, so you >can compare your results with somebody else. But for seeing if a change >improves your design, a simple system will do fine. Anyway, it won't >hurt to look at Superflow's product line, and dream...... > >Best Regards, Mazda > Many moons ago, while still at college, we built a crude flowbench to monitor flow in motorcycle cylinder heads. This used the principle that liquids obeyed the laws of flow dynamics in exactly the same way as gases, and we were not actually measuring the gas flow but comparing it for various modifications. We used a 5 gallon clear container of parafin which was located above the head to be measured. The parafin container had 2 lines drawn on it one about 6 inches from the top, and the other about 4 inches from the bottom. Quite simply the head was connected to the outlet of the container to give a good seal and the tap opened. When the level reached the first line the stopwatch was started and then stopped when it reached the lower level. Crude but very effective. It didnt make our bikes any faster, but was great fun. Hope this gives you some food for thought. Neil Powell ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 13:35:43 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Fiero ECM codes for 1985 and 1986 6 cylinder applications At 08:03 PM 11/27/96 -0800, you wrote: >Here's the 2.8 litre Pontiac TBI injection system data stream. >>>(lots of data follow.... >That's about all I know. > > -- Dan. I don't know who you killed at GM to get that list, but rest assured I'll put it to good use. GMD ------------------------------ From: Mcgonegal.Will@xxx.ca Date: Thu, 28 Nov 96 16:43:22 EST Subject: [none] >> You can't program a PC UART to 8192 baud, but >>you can program it to 8228 using a divisor of 14, which is close enough. >Actually why not change the XTAL to a 3.2768Mhz and use a divisor of 25? >With the UART's internal divisor of 16 and a programmable divisor of 25 >would get 8192. Why bother changing the PC XTAL. As I have posted in the past, it is possible to communicate to the 8192 baud ALDL with the standard PC RS 232 port and a few external parts. We've done it at out lab. You can't get exaclty 8192 baud without the XTAL change, but the UARTs are set up to handle a slight difference in communication frequencies. If any one needs the program to set the baud rate to non-standard frequencies, or the description of the interface circuitry required, I will send it to them or try to post it on the DIY ftp site. I do not have the program to recognize any of the data or to initiate a conversation any more. Will McGonegal Mcgonegal.Will@xxx.ca ------------------------------ From: ashok bala Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:40:31 -0800 Subject: needhams emp-20 device programmer I just bought a needhams emp-20 device programmer... But in order to program a very basic 27256 EPROM, it requires me to get a additional card... What the hell kind of sh** is this?? I hurriedly went to the store and bought it because i needed to use it this weekend, and it says it supports more than a thousand or so chips, but it doesnt support a COMMON eprom??????? Any suggestions?? thanks ------------------------------ From: "Michael F. Sargent" Date: Fri, 29 Nov 96 01:17:55 UT Subject: RE: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter I have no idea. :-) The level shifting from ALDL levels to RS-232 must be the problem. Async communications is very forgiving of clock speed mismatches. It has to be. Mike - ---------- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu on behalf of John Faubion Sent: Thursday, November 28, 1996 9:49 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter > Why bother? > > Serial I/O is designed to be able to handle at least a 5% error in clock rates > between sender and receiver. Using 8228 instead of 8192 is less than 0.5% > error. Mike if this works then why are there not more people doing this? The software should be easy and the cable should be easier. Additionally if its that easy, why did Diacom spend the time to write software to adapt to a parallel port? 8{) John Faubion jfaubion@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: Grant Beattie Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 18:38:19 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: your mail On Thu, 28 Nov 1996 Mcgonegal.Will@xxx.ca wrote: > Why bother changing the PC XTAL. As I have posted in the past, it is > possible to communicate to the 8192 baud ALDL with the standard PC RS 232 > port and a few external parts. We've done it at out lab. You can't get > exaclty 8192 baud without the XTAL change, but the UARTs are set up to > handle a slight difference in communication frequencies. RS-232 will handle a max of about 4% error. Usually one tries to keep within 2% just in case the other device is out too. Therefore is everyone is within 2% the worst case would be 4%. 8228 is with 0.5% of 8192. Shouldn't be a problem even on a bad day. GB ------------------------------ From: "John Faubion" Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 22:09:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter > The level shifting from ALDL levels to RS-232 must be the problem. Async > communications is very forgiving of clock speed mismatches. It has to be. The levels? Like in the voltage levels on the lines? I would think the ECM would have a max of +12VDC. Since RS-232 is supposed to comply with a plus or minus 15VDC that shouldn't be a problem. I guess I could check it out on my scope to see. John Faubion jfaubion@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: Jennifer Rose Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 22:00:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: ALDL stuff Hi All Thanks Dave Z.- I'll check for the connector from OTC. Will M.- If you would send me more info on ALDL stuff schmaitcs,software. It would be deeply appriceated Vance javer96@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: "Robert J. Korn" Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 02:18:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter John Faubion wrote: > > Mike if this works then why are there not more people doing this? The > software should be easy and the cable should be easier. Additionally if its > that easy, why did Diacom spend the time to write software to adapt to a > parallel port? 8{) > jfaubion@xxx.net Depending on your point of view : A) PROFIT & GREED. B) To protect their BIG MONEY investment in obtaining the codes from GM. C) Government Conspiracy ECM is 0 to 5v parallel port is also. No level converters are needed, just a pullup resistor to +5V. This makes the cable simpler and the software a few lines larger, and sometimes speed sensitive. Writing software is a one time expense so larger is OK. Hardware is a per customer expense, must keep it down. But thats enough about the manufacturer. Simplest for the diy'er is to use a max232 chip in a box. Then you can use almost any com port. ------------------------------ From: Todd King Date: Thu, 28 Nov 96 23:07:00 PST Subject: Re: GM ALDL converter << Date: Thu, 28 Nov 96 01:34:22 UT Subject: RE: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter Why bother? Serial I/O is designed to be able to handle at least a 5% error in clock rates between sender and receiver. Using 8228 instead of 8192 is less than 0.5% error. >>> Guys, keep in mind that this 5v serial stream is pulse width modulated data, not straight binary ones and zeros. The parallel port is a better choice for this task since it is 5v compliant; no +/- 10v transceiver required. Todd Todd_King@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: "Robert J. Korn" Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 02:25:38 -0500 Subject: how to id an ECM At a recent auction I picked up a box of auto parts. Much to my surprise there was a computer in the bottom. It looks like a GM unit but inside its not too familiar ( I only have experience with my 88 2.8L ). It has to seperate chips in sockets, a 24 pin EPROM and a 16 pin prom. Its marked 86ASDU SERV NO 1227747 The eprom is ASDU 9567 Does anybody know this beast ? ------------------------------ From: RABBITT_Andrew@xxx.au Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 16:00:44 est Subject: crankshaft/flywheel encoder patterns can anyone out there tell me what encoder patterns people are using (especially on production engines) and what sensors are used also? ie: Ford EEC-4's, 36-1 pattern, inductive crank sensor, hall effect cam sensor. I'm trying to find out what's out there and how common-place 60 tooth encoders are. (trying to justify a 60 tooth design). thanks (in advance) for your help Andrew Rabbitt Orbital Engine Company ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #364 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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