DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 4 December 1996 Volume 01 : Number 370 In this issue: rec.autos: Automotive Mailing Lists Re: general questions Re: injector duty cycles See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert McElroy Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 05:46:12 -0600 Subject: rec.autos: Automotive Mailing Lists I saw this in one of the Internet newsgroups (rec.autos.rod-n-custom) = and thought it might be of interest to those people in the group that = have inquired about other automotive mailing lists. I cannot take any = credit (nor can I accept any flames) for this compilation. Any = thanks/praise/criticism/corrections should be directed to the fellow who = claims responsibility for the compilation, one Richard Welty = (rwelty@xxx.net) is noted as the = author/editor/administrator/whatever. I did notice that the DIY_EFI = mailing list is conspicuously absent. I didn't feel that it was my = place to invite others to this list (just like I wouldn't invite = strangers to a house party at someone else's house.) It is long, but = contains a lot of good information. Automotive Mailing Lists (Electronic Mail, that is): [last updated 10/27/96; new address for Dragnet mailing list, TBird mailing list, new Chevy Impala SS list, corrected info on Peugeot list, added Opel GT list, new address for Talon/Eclipse/Laser list, different request address for MR2 digest, new address for Classic Mustang list, replacement lists for the old Porschephiles list, VW Vanagon list split, new Military Vehicles list, new address for Miata list, new list for owners of 1947-1959 Chevy & GMC trucks, new info for Formula SAE list -- rpw] There are a number of electronic mailing lists on the network devoted to various special automotive topics. Some of these are very specialized, and at the end of this posting I list a number that are focused on the activities of specific localized clubs. To the best of my knowledge, all the lists appearing here have open membership policies. It is my policy not to list `closed' mailing lists here. The information in this listing is only as good as my informants; if a list stops working or moves, i will not necessarily be informed of it. The current version of this list is available via anonymous FTP: ftp://ftp.wizvax.net/pub/personal/rwelty/Autos/mailing-lists.text It is maintained by Richard Welty (rwelty@xxx. Most mailing lists provide separate addresses for administrative queries and for general mail; where separate administrative addresses exist, I have listed those below, as the general addresses are not appropriate for inquirys and requests. Listserv, listproc & majordomo: these are the three most common automatic list handlers. Listserv and listproc take similar commands; majordomo is subtly different. commands for all three should be in the body of the mail message. a listserv/listproc request to join the honda list should look like the following: sub HONDA-L Joe. W. NewGuy note the real name. listserv/listproc will get the email address from = the message header. a majordomo request to join the italian cars list should look like subscribe italian-cars-digest newGuy@xxx.com note the email address and lack of real name. the email address is optional; if omitted, majordomo will extract the real name from=20 the message header (this is often the best way to handle this.) - ------------- Acura (see Honda list below) Acura NSX (send requests to majordomo@xxx.edu; majordomo command is subscribe nsx) Alfa Romeo Digest (send requests to majordomo@xxx.net; majordomo command is subscribe alfa-digest) AMC (American Motors Corporation) (send requests to listserv@xxx.edu; the listserv command is subscribe amc-list Your Real Name Here) American Sedan (SCCA road race class, 5.0L Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds) (send requests to asedan-request@xxx.com) Audi (send requests to majordomo@xxx.net, command is subscribe quattro) Autocross/Solo (send requests to autox-request@xxx.net, handled by majordomo) Autorace (autoracing, particularly NASCAR, F1, Indycar. also see wheeltowheel below for another interesting list. send requests to listserv@xxx.edu) Datsun Bluebird/1600/510 (send requests to bluebirds-request@xxx.com) BMW Digest (majordomo list; send requests to bmw-digest-request@xxx.net) British Cars (send requests to majordomo@xxx.net, command is subscribe british-cars) British Cars (pre-war) (send requests to majordomo@xxx.net, command is subscribe british-cars-pre-war) Buick Grand National/Turbo Regal/GNX (send requests to gnttype-request@xxx.com) Camaro/Firebird (GM F-body) (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com, command is subscribe f-body-digest this address may no longer be correct) Chevrolet Impala SS (94-96) (send requests to listproc@xxx.com, command is=20 SUBSCRIBE IMPALA Joe Schmoe) Chevy & GMC Trucks (1947-1959) (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com, command is subscribe oletrucks-l your@xxx.here) Citroen 2cv (send requests to listproc@xxx.edu, command is subscribe 2cv-l Fred Q. NewGuy) Corrado (VW) (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com, command is subscribe corrado-l) Corvair (send requests to bryan@xxx.org) Corvettes [these lists are in -mild- turmoil; an update will be along as soon as i plow through my backlog -- rpw] Competition: (send requests to vettes-request@xxx.us) General: (send requests to vettes-request@xxx.edu) Dakota (pickup trucks) (send requests to dakota-request@xxx.edu) Datsun/Fairlady Roadsters (send requests to majordomo@xxx.net, command is subscribe datsun-roadsters) Dodge Stealth/Mitsubishi 3000GT (send requests to stealth-request@xxx.com) Drag Racing (send requests to dragnet-request@xxx.com) Electric Vehicles (send requests to LISTSERV@xxx.edu; command is "subscribe ev Your Real Name Here".) Exotic-Cars (send requests to exotic-cars-request@xxx.com) Ferrari (send requests to majordomo@xxx.edu; command is subscribe ferrari) Ford (send requests to fordnatics-request@xxx.com; subscribe commands are=20 subscribe fordnatics =20 -and- subsingle fordnatics the former for digest and the latter for regular) Ford Bronco (early types) (send requests to jgarden@xxx.edu) Ford Escort (send requests to philhy@xxx.edu) Ford Explorer (send requests to server@xxx.com, command is subscribe explorer-l) Ford Festiva (send requests to wd22yl@xxx.gov) Ford Mustang (see entry under Mustang below) Ford Probe (send requests to majordomo@xxx.org, command is subscribe ford-probe) Ford Thunderbird (1955-1966) (subscription via web site prefered, = http://www.autopro.com/tbird/ send email requests to gwotel@xxx.com) Formula SAE cars & competition (send requests to listproc@xxx.edu, use listserv style commands, subscribe command is subscribe fsae Your Real Name) GMC Sport (Syclone, Typhoon, Sonoma GT) (send requests to listserv@xxx.com (really majordomo); = command is subscribe gmc-sport) Hondas (send requests to listserv@xxx.edu; listname is honda-l Honda NSX (see Acura NSX above) Hot rods (send requests to hotrod-request@xxx.com) International Harvester Digest (discussion of Scouts, pickups, etc.) (majordomo list; send requests to ihc-digest-request@xxx.net) Isuzu (send requests to isuzu-owners-request@xxx.org) Italian Cars (majordomo list; send requests to italian-cars-digest-request@xxx.net) Jaguars (send requests to majordomo@xxx.au, command is "subscribe jag-lovers") Jeeps (send commands to listproc@xxx.edu, command is "subscribe jeep-l Your Real Name Goes Here") Karting (send requests to karting-request@xxx.com; managed by majordomo, command is "subscribe karting") Kit Cars (send requests to kitcar-request@xxx.org) Land Speed Record discussions (send requests to lsr-request@xxx.uk or lsr-digest-request@xxx.uk; include the word subscribe in Subject: line of the message) Land Rovers (send requests to majordomo@xxx.net; use the commands subscribe land-rover-owner or subscribe lro-digest) Lotus (send requests to lotus-cars-request@xxx.com; subscribe commands are=20 subscribe lotus-cars =20 -and- subsingle lotus-cars the former for digest and the latter for regular) Marshal (for discussions by participants in the running of race = meetings, such as Marshals, Stewards, and all other Race Officials. send request to listserv@xxx.uk; the command is subscribe marshal-l "Your Real Name") Mazdas (send requests to mazda-list-request@xxx.edu) Mercedes (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com; use standard majordomo requests) Ford Merkur/XR4Ti/Scorpio (majordomo@xxx.com; command is "subscribe merkur-l") Miata (listserv@xxx.net; use standard listserv subscription procedure, the command is "subscribe miata Joe New Reader") Military Vehicles (mil-veh@xxx.com is the only address I have; I have no info on list management procedures) Minis (famous and very, very, very small british car. send to majordomo@xxx.net, command is subscribe mini-list) Monte Carlo (Chevy) (majordomo@xxx.com, command is subscribe monte-list) Mopar (mostly high performance Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth products; run by majordomo, send requests to = mopar-request@xxx.edu) MR2 (send requests to mr2-digest-request@xxx.com) Mustangs the classic mustangs list is for Mustangs through 1973, the modern mustang list has ceased operation, and no "official" replacement has yet appeared, although there is much discussion of the modern 5.0L Mustang on Fordnatics. Nobody cares about the Pinto, er, Mustang II, so don't ask. (send requests to majordomo@xxx.ca, use majordomo = commands (obviously), classic-mustangs-digest is name of digest = version, classic-mustangs is name of regular version) Neon (send requests to neon-request@xxx.edu, run by majordomo) Nissan (Datsun) (appears to have vanished. sorry.) Nissan Maxima (send requests to maxima-request@xxx.com, include the word "subscribe" in the body of the message) Offroad & 4X4 For 4WD vehicle related technical discussions and trip reports. Please include your real name in your subscription request. (send requests to offroad-request@xxx.com) Oldsmobile (send requests to majordomo@xxx.ca, command is "subscribe oldsmobile") Opel GT (send requests to opel-request@xxx.ca) Peugeot (send requests to peugeot-request@xxx.ca) Porsches (send requests to PorscheFans-request@xxx.com; the command = will be: subscribe PorscheFans-356 subscribe PorscheFans-911 subscribe PorscheFans-928 subscribe Porschefans-924-944 for the particular sublist you are interested in) Portland, Oregon Motorsports Activities (send requests to pdxracer-request@xxx.edu) Race Car Fabrication (send requests to racefab@xxx.com) Rally (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com; the majordomo commands are "subscribe rally-l" or "subscribe = rally-l-digest") RX7 (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com; the majordomo commands are "subscribe rx7" or "subscribe rx7-digest") Saabs (send requests to saab@xxx.com) Saabs (UK) (send requests to saab-request@xxx.uk) Saturn (send requests to saturn-request@xxx.com) Sentra SE-R, G20, N2000 (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com; majordomo commands are one of: subscribe se-r-reflective subscribe se-r-digest) Sports Car Racing (for the discussion of Sports Car Racing such as done by IMSA, etc., _not_ for general discussion of road going cars. send request to listserv@xxx.uk; the command is subscribe sportscar-l "Your Real Name") Sunbeam Alpines (send requests to alpines-request@xxx.net) Sunbeam Tigers (request address unclear; list is at tigers@xxx.com) Supras (send requests to supras-request@xxx.com) Talon/Eclipse/Laser (send requests to talon-request@xxx.org) Taurus SHO (send requests to listserv@xxx.edu; command is SUB shotimes-l Your Real Name) Thunderbirds (classic & vintage) (send requests to gwotel@xxx.net) Toyota (send requests to listproc2@xxx.edu; use listserv style = commands) Triumph Stag (send requests to majordomo@xxx.net; command in body of message is "subscribe stag") Triumph TR7/V8, TR8 (send requests to tr8-request@xxx.edu) Touring Car Racing (for the discussion of Touring Car Racing such as done by BTC, DTM2, etc., _not_ for general discussion of road going = cars. send request to listserv@xxx.uk; the command is subscribe touringcar-l "Your Real Name") VW (aircooled) (send requests to listserv@xxx.edu; use normal listserv format) VW Vanagon (watercooled) (send requests to listserv@xxx.edu; use normal listserv format; list name is Vanagon) VW Vanagon (aircooled Type II) (send requests to type2-request@xxx.com; use normal majordomo format, listname is type2) Wheel-to-Wheel Racing (forum for race drivers, workers, crew, and wannabes; send requests to wheeltowheel-request@xxx.com) Z-Cars (Nissan/Datsun) (send requests to majordomo@xxx.EDU) Localized lists: Empire Motor Sports Club (Albany NY) (send requests to emsc-request@xxx.com; list is managed by majordomo) Mohawk Hudson Region, SCCA (Albany NY) (send requests to mohud-request@xxx.com; list is managed by majordomo) Pacific Northwest Region (pdxracer@xxx.edu) Tidewater Sports Car Club, Norfolk VA and surrounds (send requests to majordomo@xxx.com; use normal majordomo commands) ------------------------------ From: "John Faubion" Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:16:24 -0600 Subject: Re: general questions > What's available in the way of a bolt-on system? I'd like to keep the > factory intake manifold if possible. Is there such an animal as a spread > bore TBI? I've heard some bad things about the Holley system, and I > understand it's a square bore body. Ken you could modify a spread bore carb for use with your system. I'm in the process of building a port injected 427 Chevrolet. I used the body and throttle plate from a Holley carb. I modified the linkage to open both sets of plates and mounted a TPS on the end of the shaft. I also drilled the ports on an aftermarket manifold to accept the injectors. I still have a few things left to do but things seem to be coming together fast. John Faubion jfaubion@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: Todd King Date: Wed, 04 Dec 96 14:17:00 PST Subject: Re: injector duty cycles File item: 24248 DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 4 December 1996 Volume 01 : Number 369 In this issue: Re: DIYEFI FAQ Nissan ECCS Re: needhams emp-20 device programmer Re: Injector Connectors Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter Re: crankshaft/flywheel encoder patterns Re: Injector Connectors Re: crankshaft/flywheel encoder patterns Turbo City ? Re: Injector Connectors Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter Re: needhams emp-20 device programmer test Test Limits of TPI computer Re: Turbo City ? re: Limits of TPI computer Re: Limits of TPI computer Re: Nissan ECCS Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joachim Glasstetter" Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:07:37 -0100 Subject: Re: DIYEFI FAQ Wow, the FAQ is a very good idea, but somebody has to put togehter the material.... ;-), somebody with too much freetime :-) I would be able to write down a 'which efi in which german car' -list. hope we will find somebody... Joachim =================================================== Dipl.-Ing. Joachim Glasstetter VS2E22 Daimler-Benz Aerospace AG Woerthstrasse 85 89077 Ulm Germany http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1642 Tel. +49 731 392 4731 '70 VW Beetle Fax. +49 731 392 4958 '83 VW POLO GT '85 VW Beetle =================================================== - ------------------------------ From: Mike Jankowski Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 22:31:03 +1100 Subject: Nissan ECCS Hi I own a 1989 Nissan Skyline with a RB30E 6 Cyl engine using the Nissan ECCS EFI. Does anyone have any experiences in modifying this system for increased performance? Thanks Bimberi Systems /\ Networking and High Avalability mike@xxx.au _______________/ \ Unix Specialists http://www.bimberi.com.au PH: +61 419 492 646 FAX: +61 6 291 4818 - ------------------------------ From: Tim Drury Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 07:42:02 -0500 Subject: Re: needhams emp-20 device programmer >Should have come w/ 3 cards to do all 8 and 16 bit 27xxx,28xxx parts. And the third "family module" does PALs and GALs. - - -tim - ------------------------------ From: "Curt Martin" Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:56:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Injector Connectors > Hi All > > Need to find a good source for the connectors that plug into injectors on a > GM TPI unit. Have been scrounging the local u-pull-it, nothing left. Got > the rest of harness parts - will start building soon. > > Thanks Vance Vance.... broaden your junkyard search parameters.... *ANY* multiport injected GM car will have the connectors you seek (Cavilers, Celebrities, V6 Camaro's, V6 Fiero's, Grand Ams,... you get the picture) The connector is a standard item (If I'm not mistaken, Ford and some imports use the same connector too.) Curt Martin (cmartin@xxx.com) Ormond Beach, Florida http://www.america.com/~cmartin/ - ------------------------------ From: Mark Bjork Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 14:15:48 -0800 Subject: Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter Michael F. Sargent wrote: > > I have no idea. :-) > > The level shifting from ALDL levels to RS-232 must be the problem. Async > communications is very forgiving of clock speed mismatches. It has to be. > > Mike > > ---------- > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu on behalf of John Faubion > Sent: Thursday, November 28, 1996 9:49 AM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter > > > Why bother? > > > > Serial I/O is designed to be able to handle at least a 5% error in clock > rates > > between sender and receiver. Using 8228 instead of 8192 is less than 0.5% > > > error. > > Mike if this works then why are there not more people doing this? The > software should be easy and the cable should be easier. Additionally if its > that easy, why did Diacom spend the time to write software to adapt to a > parallel port? 8{) > > John Faubion > jfaubion@xxx.netThe spec for RS232 is (i believe) a logic 1 for any signal below .2v, and a logic 0 for any voltage above 2.7v. Therefore, even though RS 232 is meant to be -15 and +15, the ALDL signal of 0v (logic 0) and 5v (logic 1) will work if the signal is "inverted". I am not a comm port expert, but from recently checking some serial interface databooks, i belive the above is true. Mark - ------------------------------ From: Mark Bjork Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 14:09:49 -0800 Subject: Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter John Faubion wrote: > > > Why bother? > > > > Serial I/O is designed to be able to handle at least a 5% error in clock > rates > > between sender and receiver. Using 8228 instead of 8192 is less than 0.5% > > > error. > > Mike if this works then why are there not more people doing this? The > software should be easy and the cable should be easier. Additionally if its > that easy, why did Diacom spend the time to write software to adapt to a > parallel port? 8{) > > John Faubion > jfaubion@xxx.netBecause, if they didn't use a harware "hardkey" then all one would have to do is copy the software and pass it on the the next guy. Mark - ------------------------------ From: Mark Bjork Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 14:02:43 -0800 Subject: Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter John Faubion wrote: > > > You can't program a PC UART to 8192 baud, but > >you can program it to 8228 using a divisor of 14, which is close enough. > > Actually why not change the XTAL to a 3.2768Mhz and use a divisor of 25? > With the UART's internal divisor of 16 and a programmable divisor of 25 > would get 8192. Plus this is a standard crystal which costs about a dollar. > Dual port serial cards for the PC are around seven dollars now. Looks like > a cheap way to talk to it. Or I guess someone with a bit more EE skills > could probably whip up a circuit for it using that crystal, a UART, a > couple IC's and a few discretes to connect to a parallel port. Anyone with > the know how for this willing to take a shot. I'm willing to build it. > > John Faubion > jfaubion@xxx.netThe only hardware you need is a ciruit to "invert" the data. Other than that you can ( as someone mentioned earlier in this thread) do the rest in software. We (a friend and I) did connect a pc to the ALDL port over the weekend, and did obtain data from the port, but, we hadn't "borrowed" any hardware from work to do the inverting. Tonight, we hope to have a simple serial communication inverter circuit ready. Then we should be able to get valid data. The data we obtianed would be correct if we did a BSL on each word (I think that would work) but since the "level" of the start bit was inverted, the data is tough to decipher. I will post the results of our "test" as soon as we have something further. Mark - ------------------------------ From: Mark Eidson Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:32:51 -0700 Subject: Re: crankshaft/flywheel encoder patterns This is the same approach I have come up with but I'm only in the thought process. Are you going to sequence your counters so that each cylinder will have a programmable injection timing? This will also work for ignition. I thought a phase locked loop running at a higher frequency would give more accuracy than 1 degree of cam rotation but can't figure out an easy to get the dynamic range required. me *************************************************************************** * Mark Eidson Voice: (602)752-6513 * * Staff Design Engineer Fax: (602)752-6000 * * Manager System Integration and * * Verification E-Mail: mark.eidson@xxx.com * * VLSI Technology, Inc. * * 8375 South River Parkway * * M/S 265 * * Tempe, Arizona 85284 * *************************************************************************** - ------------------------------ From: kleenair@xxx.com Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 10:35:53 -0800 Subject: Re: Injector Connectors Curt Martin wrote: > > > Hi All > > > > Need to find a good source for the connectors that plug into injectors on > a > > GM TPI unit. Have been scrounging the local u-pull-it, nothing left. Got > > the rest of harness parts - will start building soon. > > > > Thanks Vance > > Vance.... broaden your junkyard search parameters.... *ANY* multiport > injected GM car will have the connectors you seek (Cavilers, Celebrities, > V6 Camaro's, V6 Fiero's, Grand Ams,... you get the picture) The connector > is a standard item (If I'm not mistaken, Ford and some imports use the same > connector too.) > > Curt Martin (cmartin@xxx.com) > Ormond Beach, Florida > http://www.america.com/~cmartin/You are not mistaken. Ford, Chrysler and other port injection connectors will fit. Best Regards, Mazda - ------------------------------ From: kleenair@xxx.com Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 10:56:53 -0800 Subject: Re: crankshaft/flywheel encoder patterns Mark Eidson wrote: > > This is the same approach I have come up with but I'm only in the thought > process. Are you going to sequence your counters so that each cylinder will > have a programmable injection timing? This will also work for ignition. I > thought a phase locked loop running at a higher frequency would give more > accuracy than 1 degree of cam rotation but can't figure out an easy to get > the dynamic range required. me > *************************************************************************** > * Mark Eidson Voice: (602)752-6513 * > * Staff Design Engineer Fax: (602)752-6000 Hi Mark, Yes, I plan to sequence them, and I'm using the same approach for ignition coils. Also, with one edge per crank degree, we can narrow our resolution to 0.5 degrees of cam rotation not 1 degree, and for my purposes this is accurate. I know there are systems out there that claim they are more accurate, but I don't know beyound 1/2 degree if it makes a difference. The reason I decided to go this route was to relieve the processor from too many interrupts. I plan to set the processor up to be interrupted on every rising edge of the crank sensor (once every 2 degrees of crank rot). When there is a rising edge on the CAM, I'll set angle to zero, and increment by two on every crank interrupt. I then reload the counters (by writing to a memory location), when their proper angle comes up. I'd like to discuss this more, but I'm out of time right now. Write me back on what you think. - ------------------------------ From: Jack Alford Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:53:49 -0600 Subject: Turbo City ? Anybody know if Turbo City is still in business, I remember reading an article about them using a pair of 2.5L TBI units in some magazine a while back. I just tried to call their number in an old magazine I have and I get the 'they don't live here any more" message ??????? - jack - ------------------------------ From: peter paul fenske Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:46:56 -0800 Subject: Re: Injector Connectors At 06:35 PM 12/2/96 -0800, you wrote: >Hi All > > >Need to find a good source for the connectors that plug into injectors on a >GM TPI unit. Have been scrounging the local u-pull-it, nothing left. Got >the rest of harness parts - will start building soon. > >Thanks Vance > Hi Vance I'll look in the GM Y body parts book for you. Gm does make new ones. Later: peter - ------------------------------ From: Stephen Dubovsky Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:39:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter ... >The spec for RS232 is (i believe) a logic 1 for any signal below .2v, and >a logic 0 for any voltage above 2.7v. Therefore, even though RS 232 is >meant to be -15 and +15, the ALDL signal of 0v (logic 0) and 5v (logic 1) >will work if the signal is "inverted". ... Used to be that -5 to +5 (or +-7) was invalid for RS232 inputs back when everyboy went from -12 to +12. (The invalid area was a hysteresis band so you HAD to cross both boundries to toggle the bit) Now with all the 3.3V chips around, they use a charge pump to get almost +6.6V and -6.6 (usually +6.2 and -6.0 in my exp) and the hysteresis band is reduced to something like +-2V. I believe it is still bipolar, so if you only go from 0V to 5V the bit may get 'stuck' in one direction. Hope this helps... You might also have a serial interface that doesn't truly follow the RS232 spec and toggles around 0.7-2.7V though. SMD - - -- Stephen Dubovsky dubovsky@xxx.edu 95 Yamaha FZR600 83 Porsche 911SC 84 Jeep Cherokee - ------------------------------ From: ashok bala Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 10:41:49 -0800 Subject: Re: needhams emp-20 device programmer Sorry my mistake... my programmer was not working properly, which is why I was unable to use the 01A module to program EPROMS.... I have contacted needhams and they are fixing the problem.. Tim Drury wrote: > > >Should have come w/ 3 cards to do all 8 and 16 bit 27xxx,28xxx parts. > > And the third "family module" does PALs and GALs. > > -tim - ------------------------------ From: Jussi T Kosonen Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:50:06 +0200 (EET) Subject: test Test - ------------------------------ From: Jussi T Kosonen Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:46:11 +0200 (EET) Subject: Test only a test - ------------------------------ From: Jussi T Kosonen Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 22:54:13 +0200 (EET) Subject: Limits of TPI computer Hi you all!!! I have few questions about stock TPI computer limitations. I own a -85 Vette (MAF computer) with quite heavy modifications that include.... -400 cid block bored 0.03" -stroker crank 3.875" = 420 cid -Dart II Sportsman cylinder heads -Compucam 2040 cam duration @xxx.454" -SLP T-Ram manifold -Accel 58mm throttle body -Hedman Hedders with 1 5/8" tubes 3" collectors -Dual 2 1/2" exhaust tubing no catalytic converter -3" Flowmaster mufflers -modified MAF and air filter housing with STOCK computer,fuel pump, injectors 24lbs/hr, fuel filter. And that is what worries me ...... Is the stock TPI computer able to operate my engine?? I know that computer with MAF is quite tolerable with engine modifications but still I fear that I'am not using the full potential of my engine. I have the TPIS Insider Hints book that states that stock injectors are able to produce +450 HP and they also say that it is better to use small injectors with high fuel pressure than bigger ones with lower. I don't know how much HP my engine is producing but taking in a account that my cam is so mild I estimate less than 450HP... but that book doesn't tell me what pressure should use..... currently I have set it to 45PSI.... The question is......could I damage my engine at high RMP with too lean mixture..? Any advise appreciated!!!! Jussi - ------------------------------ From: Todd Knighton Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 14:06:32 -0800 Subject: Re: Turbo City ? Jack Alford wrote: > > Anybody know if Turbo City is still in business, I remember reading an > article about them using a pair of 2.5L TBI units in some magazine a > while back. I just tried to call their number in an old magazine I have > and I get the 'they don't live here any more" message ??????? > > - jack Yup, they're at (714) 639 4933 as of a July 1996 Turbo mag. 1137 W. Katella Ave., Dept. TRB, Orange, CA 92667 Todd Knighton Protomotive Engineering - ------------------------------ From: SRavet@xxx.com Date: Tue, 3 Dec 96 16:07:40 CST Subject: re: Limits of TPI computer Jussi T Kosonen Wrote: | | | Hi you all!!! | I have few questions about stock TPI computer limitations. | | I own a -85 Vette (MAF computer) with quite heavy modifications that | include.... | | -400 cid block bored 0.03" | -stroker crank 3.875" | = 420 cid | -Dart II Sportsman cylinder heads | -Compucam 2040 cam duration @xxx.050"=210/216 gross lift=.440"/.454" | -SLP T-Ram manifold | -Accel 58mm throttle body | -Hedman Hedders with 1 5/8" tubes 3" collectors | -Dual 2 1/2" exhaust tubing no catalytic converter | -3" Flowmaster mufflers | -modified MAF and air filter housing | | with STOCK computer,fuel pump, injectors 24lbs/hr, fuel filter. | | And that is what worries me ...... | | Is the stock TPI computer able to operate my engine?? | I know that computer with MAF is quite tolerable with engine modifications | but still I fear that I'am not using the full potential of my engine. | | I have the TPIS Insider Hints book that states that stock injectors | are able to produce +450 HP and they also say that it is better to | use small injectors with high fuel pressure than bigger ones with | lower. | | I don't know how much HP my engine is producing but taking in a account | that my cam is so mild I estimate less than 450HP... | but that book doesn't tell me what pressure should use..... | currently I have set it to 45PSI.... | | The question is......could I damage my engine at high RMP with | too lean mixture..? Yes you could, but you would probably see a "Block Learn" error first. Block learn is what allows the ECM to "lean" a new fuel curve for your engine. It is a modifier that is added/subtracted to the base injector timing stored in the table. It can only be adjusted so far, though, and if the computer can't increase it any further and it still sees lean operation then it will set a "block learn out of range" error. This won't help WOT much, since feedback is not used then. Your best bet would be to hook a high impedance multimeter to the O2 sensor and have someone watch it while you drive to see if you are rich/lean. If you are lean at WOT, you should probably create more fuel flow by increasing the pressure or getting bigger injectors. The block lean will take care of adjusting part throttle conditions, and the larger injectors will increase fuelling at WOT. If you get a scan tool or Diacom software, you can see the block learn values, O2 sensor values, etc. all as you drive around. What's your 1/4 mile time? - - --steve Steve Ravet sravet@xxx.com Baby you're a genius when it comes to cooking up some chili sauce... - ------------------------------ From: Mazda Ebrahimi Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 19:07:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Limits of TPI computer Jussi T Kosonen wrote: > I have the TPIS Insider Hints book that states that stock injectors > are able to produce +450 HP and they also say that it is better to > use small injectors with high fuel pressure than bigger ones with > lower. I don't know the specifics of the TPI, but this advice is good for two reasons. One is that you generally get better atomization of fuel with higher pressure. The second is that going to larger injectors may negatively affect your idle. > > I don't know how much HP my engine is producing but taking in a account > that my cam is so mild I estimate less than 450HP... > but that book doesn't tell me what pressure should use..... > currently I have set it to 45PSI.... > > The question is......could I damage my engine at high RMP with > too lean mixture..? It's possible. But if it happens, it will happen right near stoich. at wide open throttle (this is the hottest combustion you can get). The best way to find out is to monitor your O2 sensor as suggested by someone else. There are a couple of other things that may be interesting to check. One is your fuel pressure at maximum power, to make sure your fuel pump is keeping up with the demand. When this is the case, you can usually tell even by driving the car. The other is your injector duty cycle. Generally, you would like to keep the maximum injector duty cycle at or below 80% (I think it keeps the injector driver chips from overheating, but I'm not sure). I wonder if the ECM will exceed this number if fuel flow demands require it to? Hopefully someone else on the mailing list has an answer. Best Regards, Mazda - ------------------------------ From: MaxBoost@xxx.com Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 20:00:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Nissan ECCS >Does anyone know who can program Nissan ECCS systems......snip Call Clark at Jim Wolf Technology in El Cajon, 619-433-0680. They have years of experience with the ECCS system. They have done the ecu for a couple of my cars and I trust their work. Max. - ------------------------------ From: Darrell Norquay Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 05:34:05 GMT Subject: Re: Schematic of a GM ALDL -> PC converter At 01:39 PM 12/3/96 -0500, SMD wrote: >Used to be that -5 to +5 (or +-7) was invalid for RS232 inputs back when >everyboy went from -12 to +12. (The invalid area was a hysteresis band so >you HAD to cross both boundries to toggle the bit) Now with all the 3.3V >chips around, they use a charge pump to get almost +6.6V and -6.6 (usually >+6.2 and -6.0 in my exp) and the hysteresis band is reduced to something >like +-2V. I believe it is still bipolar, so if you only go from 0V to 5V >the bit may get 'stuck' in one direction. Hope this helps... You might >also have a serial interface that doesn't truly follow the RS232 spec and >toggles around 0.7-2.7V though. The true RS232C standard specifies +/- 15 volt signals. This was sortof relaxed to +/- 12 volts when personal computers started becoming popular. The signal was supposed to have a "dead band" between +/- 3 volts, which allowed for lots of signal loss over long wires. There is actually another standard, (I forget the RS number), which is a modified RS232 that only swings +/- 5V. This was (and is) used a lot on laptops, etc. It was still called an RS232 port, however, (even though it's not) because if your cables weren't too long, it would still talk to a true RS232C input. I don't think this will work with a single-ended 0-5v signal, since it must swing significantly negative to get it to change from space to mark. Any of the "backwards" converters using a MAX232 presented here recently should work nicely, though. Since "mark" is negative, and "space" is positive, an additional inverter may be required to get the proper signal into the serial port of a PC. regards dn dnorquay@xxx.com - ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #369 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi". Text item: External Message Header <<< The other is your injector duty cycle. Generally, you would like to keep the maximum injector duty cycle at or below 80% (I think it keeps the injector driver chips from overheating, but I'm not sure). I wonder if the ECM will exceed this number if fuel flow demands require it to? Hopefully someone else on the mailing list has an answer. Best Regards, Mazda >>> I find that at WOT my injectors go greater than 99% duty cycle for most of the time. The ECM is a GM SFI unit (Buick Grand National). This high duty cycle is common at WOT. The ECM does send out a token closing "blip" that keeps things in true SFI mode; essentially the injectors are just serving as holes in the fuel rail at WOT. Todd Todd_King@xxx.com ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #370 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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