DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 11 December 1996 Volume 01 : Number 378 In this issue: Re: new engine Which microcontrollers in Bosch Motronic? Re: Ford Quad Plug coils Ford Escort ECU problem Ford SVO Catalog Re: Ford Quad Plug coils MAF Sensors Placement Re: MAF Sensors Placement Re: Ford SVO Catalog Re: Ford Escort ECU problem blank messages Re: eddy current brake Re: blank messages Re: MAF Sensors Placement Re[2]: blank messages See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cloud@xxx.edu (tom cloud) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 07:42:43 -0600 Subject: Re: new engine Ford SVO catalog has a lower intake to adapt the 5.0 upper to a 351W. Part No. M-9461-A58 .... $ 430.95 (retail) $ 344.25 (jobber). >What type of intake manifold are you looking at? I assume you are going to >use some sort of EFI. Are there manifolds similar to the 5.0 available for >the 351W? I've seen production manifolds in boats that look like 5.0 units >but are 5.7. Would these work on the older 302/351 style heads? If so >where can one purchase them? I'm using a Performer RPM with a 700 CFM >Holley Digital Pro-jection 4di with laptop control on my current engine. It >has a crane hydraulic roller cam, @xxx.544, with >9.0:1 compression with rebuilt, hand ported 64cc cast iron heads. I have a >351 block sitting on the garage floor and want to make a sequential port >injection system for it to bolt into my current setup. me > >At 04:39 PM 12/9/96 -0600, you wrote: >>I sent the following to the Bronco list -- may not be efi related >>(though it's my test bed for my efi experiments) -- but, I wanted >>any advice I can get. I don't claim to be an expert on engines. >>I am replacing the 351W in my '82 Bronco. It has an Edelbrock >>Performer manifold and Holley ProJection 670 cfm efi. snip Tom Cloud ------------------------------ From: Jay Snyder Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:48:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Which microcontrollers in Bosch Motronic? I saw a list, either here, or on a web page somewhere that stated which microcontrollers were used in various versions of Bosch Motronic systems. I specifically remember seeing the Siemens 80515 in some of them. Does anyone have this list, or know where I can get it. I contemplating the purchase of a Motronic 1.7 out of a '92 318is which I want to modify to control my '74 2002 engine. I have development tools for 8051 family processors, and this would be a good setup for me. Thanks, Jay ------------------------------ From: kleenair@xxx.com Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:47:48 -0800 Subject: Re: Ford Quad Plug coils Sandy wrote: > > At 09:03 PM 12/9/96 -0500, you wrote: > >Sandy wrote: > >> > >> Does anyone have any information on the Quad plug coil assembly on the late > >> model Ford 4.6's? I have seen them in stangs, and the lincoln. > >> > >> Sandy > > > >What kind of info are you looking for? > > > > General electrical spec's, are these coils 12 Volts, or are they special for > some new style of ford ignition. They looked really small for housing 2 dual > coil units... Any info would be great! > > Sandy Hi Sandy, They are 12 volt coils, two per unit. The system is the same on 1.9L and 4.6L (4.6 uses two sets), and 3.0L V6 (with a 6 tower coil pack). Best Regards, Mazda ------------------------------ From: George Lerm Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:03:28 +0200 Subject: Ford Escort ECU problem Hi all I need some help or information. I have a '96 Ford Escort 1.8GLi 16V. I am not sure which ECU it has, but this is my sad tale. I have taken the vehicle for its 20000km service. After it was completed I was handed back the vehicle. I drove it for +-30km and it failed on me. I tried to re-start it, ran for 30 secs and died once more. Contacted the service agent. They sent out the mechanic. When he arrived after an hour, the machanic tried to start the vehicle. It sprang to life and idled(typical). He monitored the ECU with a scan tool. At first it would not communicate. Eventually established comms. Checked out fine according to diagnostics. Drove the car back to service centre. After about 25km, the car surged again. Managed to get it back to the agent. They tried again with the scan tool. Found nothing wrong. Decided to change fuel filter(??????). Did exactly the same. Would idle for some minutes and then stall. Battle to start. Some over an over again. They removed ECU and found it to be incredibly hot to the touch.(is this normal?? Ambient around 29 degress Celsius). I would like to know if somebody has had this experience before, or know of it. I would appreciate any help or comments about this matter. (Sorry for the long mail) Regards George ------------------------------ From: Mark Eidson Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:30:34 -0700 Subject: Ford SVO Catalog Where can one get a Ford SVO Catalog? Does SVO have a web page or e-mail address? me At 07:42 AM 12/10/96 -0600, you wrote: >Ford SVO catalog has a lower intake to adapt the 5.0 upper to a 351W. >Part No. M-9461-A58 .... $ 430.95 (retail) $ 344.25 (jobber). *************************************************************************** * Mark Eidson Voice: (602)752-6513 * * Staff Design Engineer Fax: (602)752-6000 * * Manager System Integration and * * Verification E-Mail: mark.eidson@xxx.com * * VLSI Technology, Inc. * * 8375 South River Parkway * * M/S 265 * * Tempe, Arizona 85284 * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Sandy Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:05:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Ford Quad Plug coils Mazda - Thanks They look pretty good, I have been messing with the GM dual post, but they are a pain because the power connectors are hard to deal with. Do you know the current limit that these coils have? as I would like to give one a try with the drivers that I built. Sandy ------------------------------ From: Mark Eidson Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 13:24:34 -0700 Subject: MAF Sensors Placement In turbocharged or supercharged systems should the MAF sensor be placed at the inlet, between the impeller and intercooler or between the intercooler and intake manifold? me *************************************************************************** * Mark Eidson Voice: (602)752-6513 * * Staff Design Engineer Fax: (602)752-6000 * * Manager System Integration and * * Verification E-Mail: mark.eidson@xxx.com * * VLSI Technology, Inc. * * 8375 South River Parkway * * M/S 265 * * Tempe, Arizona 85284 * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Ron Madurski Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:35:34 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: MAF Sensors Placement On my Volvo it is at the inlet, after the air cleaner. : : :In turbocharged or supercharged systems should the MAF sensor be placed at :the inlet, between the impeller and intercooler or between the intercooler :and intake manifold? me : : - -- Ron Madurski rmadursk@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: cloud@xxx.edu (tom cloud) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:59:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Ford SVO Catalog >Where can one get a Ford SVO Catalog? Does SVO have a web page or e-mail >address? me get mine at the Ford dealer part$ place. Tom Cloud ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.au Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 08:10:59 Subject: Re: Ford Escort ECU problem George, I posted a mail a while ago, about a Holden Astra which experienced the same problems (and the diagnostics showed nothing wrong). Eventually there was only one thing left after all the sensors and harnesses had passed testing (YES the ECU), we replaced the ECU and the car now runs as good as new again. So I'd suggest try swapping in another one if you can to try it out. The funny (well not so funny) thing was that the probem didn't start until after the car had been in for a regular service. Which makes me wonder how EMC proof these ECU's are, its almost like the service people zap the ECU's (purposely or accidently, who knows) when they service the cars. From what we found when we opened up the old one, there wasn't a lot of EMC protection in it, a MOV on the supply input and a by-pass cap on each I/O lead. No wonder they recommend not jump starting other cars. Dan dzorde@xxx.au ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Ford Escort ECU problem Author: diy_efi@xxx.edu at INTERNET Date: 12/11/96 1:19 AM Hi all I need some help or information. I have a '96 Ford Escort 1.8GLi 16V. I am not sure which ECU it has, but this is my sad tale. I have taken the vehicle for its 20000km service. After it was completed I was ha nded back the vehicle. I drove it for +-30km and it failed on me. I tried to re-start it, ran for 30 secs and died once more. Contacted the service agent. They sent out the mechanic. When he arrived after an hour, the machanic tried to start the vehicle. It sprang to life and idled(typical). He monitored the ECU with a scan tool. At first it would not communicate. Eventually established comms. Checked out fine according to diagnost ics. Drove the car back to service centre. After about 25km, the car surged again. Man aged to get it back to the agent. They tried again with the scan tool. Found nothing wron g. Decided to change fuel filter(??????). Did exactly the same. Would idle for some minutes and then stall. Battle to start. Some over an over again. They removed ECU and found it to be incredibly hot to the touch.(is this normal?? Ambient around 29 degress Celsius). I would like to know if somebody has had this experience before, or know of it. I would appreciate any help or comments about this matter. (Sorry for the long mail) Regards George ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.au Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 08:16:15 Subject: blank messages Is anyone else out there receiving a lot of blank messages, or is it just me ? Anyone know what its due to ? Dan dzorde@xxx.au ------------------------------ From: scicior@xxx.com (Steve Ciciora) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 17:33:15 -0700 Subject: Re: eddy current brake > drag force. It's really neat- you can brake the rotating disk without > contacting it. If you happen to have an old hard drive platter laying around > you can demo the effect. Give the platter a good spin and just bring a magnet > close to the surface of the upper disk. You'll see the thing slow noticeably. > BTW, if you have an older model drive dig out the (big) magnets from its arm > motion control assy; you'll be Astonished by how strong they are if you have > never seen these magnets before. Put two of them together (don't get your > finger caught as they snap together!) and you will not be able to pull them > apart without sliding them parallel! Anyway I think that another app for eddy > current brakes was the diesel-electric locomotive? The demo I use to do is take a neodinium-iron-boron (spelling, -2) magnet and drop it down a 3 foot length of copper pipe. It floated down! Would take about 10 seconds, vs less than one second to drop a marble down. Steven Ciciora ------------------------------ From: "William A. Sarkozy" Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 20:38:51 -0800 Subject: Re: blank messages At 08:16 AM 12/11/96, you wrote: > > > Is anyone else out there receiving a lot of blank messages, or is it > just me ? Anyone know what its due to ? > > Dan dzorde@xxx.au > > No blanks here, Dan. Maybe all the bits fell out of your computer (heh heh) ------------------------------ From: Todd Knighton Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 17:11:21 -0800 Subject: Re: MAF Sensors Placement Mark Eidson wrote: > > In turbocharged or supercharged systems should the MAF sensor be placed at > the inlet, between the impeller and intercooler or between the intercooler > and intake manifold? It's a compromise either way, between the intercooler and the intake manifold the thing picks up all kinds of resonances and the flow path is not exactly laminar. But, and that's a big one, anywhere prior to the intercooler the thing suffers from blowback when you lift off the throttle. The MAF reads in both directions and will register positive flow even though the throttle is shut down after a boost run. The engine will flood out with no air and lots of fuel. We've tried just about every type of recirc valve, and pop off that we could and did not completely remedy the problem. Todd Knighton Protomotive Engineering ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.au Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 10:44:57 Subject: Re[2]: blank messages Yeah, I kinda found that out myself when I received the message from the diy_efi list server. However, the one I sent to the efi332 list I received as a blank message. Does anyone know if there is a problem with the efi332 list server ? Dan dzorde@xxx.au ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: blank messages Author: diy_efi@xxx.edu at INTERNET Date: 12/11/96 10:19 AM At 08:16 AM 12/11/96, you wrote: > > > Is anyone else out there receiving a lot of blank messages, or is it > just me ? Anyone know what its due to ? > > Dan dzorde@xxx.au > > No blanks here, Dan. Maybe all the bits fell out of your computer (heh heh) ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #378 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".