DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 13 June 1997 Volume 02 : Number 200 In this issue: RE: bhp Re: plugs [none] RE: O2 sensor fooler RE: DIY_EFI Digest V2 #197 Re: RE: bhp, spark plug crap Junque Mail from a Junque system RE: DIY_EFI Digest V2 #197 RE: bhp, spark plug crap Re: o2sensor on web Re: Junque Mail from a Junque system Re: bhp, spark plug crap See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeffrey Engel" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:50:28 +600 Subject: RE: bhp > From: Andrew Rabbitt > To: "'diy_efi@xxx.edu'" > > Subject: RE: bhp > Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:51:01 +0100 > Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > > > Can you imagine how out of tune an auto would have to be for ANY > > spark > > > plug change to give an additional 50 Horsepower? > > > > The purpose of the plug is to ignite the fuel. In some circumstances, > > > > different materials are more or less prone to oxidation in heated > > environments, so yes, in theory, different plugs might make a > > difference. > > Also, plugs come in temperature ranges, different gap settings, > > different > > insulator materials. I've honestly never figured out technically the > > reasons why, but if someone on the list can explain why a plug is not > > a > > plug, I'm all ears :) > > > The spark energy influences the power (by increasing the burn rate) more > than the spark plug itself, and this is related to the stored coil > energy and not necessarily the plug specification. > > 50 hp sounds like a lot, but if you've got a 2000 hp Merlin XX then it > seems feasible. In the real (automotive) world, you might see a 2-3% > change. > > Andrew Rabbitt > Sometimes something a lot less awesome than a Merlin. Several thousand miles ago I changed from Bosch Platinum plugs to Motorcraft. My 2.3l Turbo Coupe motor LOVED 'em! I must have picked up 25 hp. My guess is that the Bosch plugs were misfiring enough to screw up my a/f ratios but not enough to detect in the seat-o-pants dyno. Cumulative effects like that could add up to 50 hp quickly. I'm thinking 5 liter and a paxton-type supercharger. je jengel@xxx.net "I can resist anything but temptation" Mark Twain ------------------------------ From: Frank Piccolo Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:24:19 -0400 Subject: Re: plugs Todd King wrote: > <<< > > The purpose of the plug is to ignite the fuel. In some > circumstances, > > > > different materials are more or less prone to oxidation in heated > > environments, so yes, in theory, different plugs might make a > > difference. > > Also, plugs come in temperature ranges, different gap settings, > > different > > insulator materials. I've honestly never figured out technically > the > > reasons why, but if someone on the list can explain why a plug is > not > > a > > plug, I'm all ears :) > > > The spark energy influences the power (by increasing the burn rate) > more > than the spark plug itself, and this is related to the stored coil > energy and not necessarily the plug specification. > >>> > > I just received some new SAE books last night; two of the papers in > the > combustion book detail results of plug indexing, style (shape, > number of > electrodes, etc) and gap experiments. All three plug aspects did > indeed show > differences though the authors generally declined to make > recommendations on > which way is "best". Interesting that as Andrew points out the spark > energy > comes from what's stored in the coil, not really varying with the > gap as is > sometimes implied. Point of diminishing returns is reached from > widening the > gap when the spark begins finding alternate routes across the > ceramic and > ignition efficiency drops. Indexing was interesting too; seems that > getting > the ground electrode out of the "slipstream" of the small flame > kernel showed > improvement in ignition. However the slipstream (mixture flow) > direction > appears to vary with rpm, etc so nailing down a "correct" > orientation is > difficult at best. However both results appear to imply that the > ignition > process favors having hard parts out of the way of the initial flame > kernel. > Pretty good reading; it would help to be an ME though... > > Todd_King@xxx.com You fail to take into account the timing issue. The wider the gap the greater the impedance across it, the greater the impedance the more energy is needed to cross that gap. It takes longer for the coil to accumulate this and therefore affect the time advance curve. At low RPM it wont be much but a six grand the difference will offset any benefit gained by the larger kernel. Keep the gap around the close to original unless you plan on taking control of the spark timing. ------------------------------ From: Rick Impson Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:57:55 +0000 Subject: [none] suscribe rti1@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: Greg Woods Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:59:11 -0500 Subject: RE: O2 sensor fooler > This schematic is available on the web at Don Perlick's site... he was > gracious enough to post it there. Now those of you who aren't MIME > compliant can read it and download it. > > There is a 100% moneyback guarantee on this one... > Can someone mail me Don perlicks web site address, pretty please.:) Greg Woods gwoods@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.com (dzorde) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: DIY_EFI Digest V2 #197 They still build the power machines in Australia. Get the new GMH HSV GTR, stroked 305 to produce a 217kw 350 engine, get the optional APS supercharger kit fitted and you have a 307kw engine with massive torque straight from the factory line. Now if only they could squeeze a set of turbos under the bonnet as well. Dan dzorde@xxx.com >The engines talltom is talking about are the big blocks. While they >are not as common as they once were, it is not at all unusual for a >port injected big block to turn 750 hp and 650 ft pounds. Does this >qualilfy? > >On the other hand, how common were 300+ HP small blocks in the '70s >(almost all of them, now, are in the area of 300 hp). > >---------- >From: cloud@xxx.edu] >Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 9:52 AM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: RE: DIY_EFI Digest V2 #197 > >talltom wrote >>Reguarding that Cloud following Tom around, I've heard that Ford >retarded >>all their cams 8 degrees across all models in 72, and that may paly >>a part in the ford Hp ratings, although all mfg. hps dropped in that >era. >>Tom also sez that hp ratings have come back up on the late models to >>higher levels than early 70's . My question is where????? Show me >>all the 375-450 hp ratings today, never mind 550 ft.lb@xxx. > >dang, I took my book home .... I guess you'll just have >to trust me 8-) (what I said was, I thought, is they have >come back *close* or *near* or something like that) > >Tom Cloud > > ------------------------------ From: mailuser@xxx.nz Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 02:40:35 +1200 Subject: Re: RE: bhp, spark plug crap Automated reply from Massey University Electronic Mail System - --------- ----- ---- ------ ---------- ---------- ---- ------ The message you have sent to diy_efi@xxx.edu has been delivered. Please note: This person is currently not an active EMail user and is therefore unlikely to read their mail. All unread mail is deleted after approximately 2 months ------------------------------ From: "Robert Harris" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:44:46 -0700 Subject: Junque Mail from a Junque system OK someone be a hero. Post the system administrators at Massey University's e-mail address. I've got about 200 messages that I'd like to stick up his highly sophisticated system exit only. If the first ingredient ain't Habanero, then the rest don't matter. Robert Harris - ---------- > From: mailuser@xxx.nz > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: > Date: Thursday, June 12, 1997 6:01 AM > > Automated reply from Massey University Electronic Mail System > --------- ----- ---- ------ ---------- ---------- ---- ------ > > The message you have sent to > > diy_efi@xxx.edu > > has been delivered. > > Please note: > This person is currently not an active EMail user and is therefore unlikely > to read their mail. All unread mail is deleted after approximately 2 months ------------------------------ From: "Harper, Kevin" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:00:42 -0700 Subject: RE: DIY_EFI Digest V2 #197 >---------- >From: dzorde@xxx.com] >Sent: Thursday, June 12, 1997 7:19 AM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: RE: DIY_EFI Digest V2 #197 > >They still build the power machines in Australia. Get the new GMH HSV GTR, >stroked 305 to produce a 217kw 350 engine, get the optional APS supercharger >kit fitted and you have a 307kw engine with massive torque straight from the >factory line. > >Now if only they could squeeze a set of turbos under the bonnet as well. > >Dan dzorde@xxx.com > >>The engines talltom is talking about are the big blocks. While they >>are not as common as they once were, it is not at all unusual for a >>port injected big block to turn 750 hp and 650 ft pounds. Does this >>qualilfy? >> >>On the other hand, how common were 300+ HP small blocks in the '70s >>(almost all of them, now, are in the area of 300 hp). >> >>---------- >>From: cloud@xxx.edu] >>Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 9:52 AM >>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >>Subject: RE: DIY_EFI Digest V2 #197 >> >>talltom wrote >>>Reguarding that Cloud following Tom around, I've heard that Ford >>retarded >>>all their cams 8 degrees across all models in 72, and that may paly >>>a part in the ford Hp ratings, although all mfg. hps dropped in that >>era. >>>Tom also sez that hp ratings have come back up on the late models to >>>higher levels than early 70's . My question is where????? Show me >>>all the 375-450 hp ratings today, never mind 550 ft.lb@xxx. >> >>dang, I took my book home .... I guess you'll just have >>to trust me 8-) (what I said was, I thought, is they have >>come back *close* or *near* or something like that) >> >>Tom Cloud >> >> > > ------------------------------ From: Sketch Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: bhp, spark plug crap > electrode, like a shadow or carbon tracks on the cylender, and you'd get > crazy people making sure to line all of their spark plug electrodes > pointing the same way. There are 'crazy people' who do that. It's called indexing the plugs. Someone else just posted a message about an SAE paper that covered the subject. Haven't tried it myself. C'ya Fiero! http://erau.db.erau.edu/~byrnee/ Sketch 86 Fiero SE 2m6 - 4 speed Daytona Beach, FL - Space Coast Fieros ------------------------------ From: Seth Allen Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: o2sensor on web On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Seth Allen wrote: > Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:33:35 -0700 (PDT) > From: Seth Allen > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: o2sensor on web > > Attention to all who missed the schematic for the o2 sensor output > modifier (aka o2 sensor fooler) again it has 2 inputs for chryslers with > 2 sensors. It was used to richen up gaseous fuelled cars (CNG, Propane) > It will probably butcher your fuel mileage. You might even melt down your > catalyst and burn your car to the ground. But probably you will just run > rich. > > This schematic is available on the web at Don Perlick's site... he was > gracious enough to post it there. Now those of you who aren't MIME > compliant can read it and download it. The site is http://oeonline.com/~dperlick > > There is a 100% moneyback guarantee on this one... > > Seth Allen > ------------------------------ From: "Michael D. Porter" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:05:11 -0700 Subject: Re: Junque Mail from a Junque system Robert Harris wrote: > > OK someone be a hero. Post the system administrators at > Massey University's e-mail address. I've got about 200 messages that > I'd like to stick up his highly sophisticated system exit only. I sent a message to Massey University's computer department help desk last night, when I couldn't find an email address for the system administrator or the mailmaster, and included a sample message and a description of what was happening... New Zealand must be a lot like New Mexico--they'll get to it eventually. > If the first ingredient ain't Habanero, then the rest don't matter. > Robert Harris Ain't it the truth.... Cheers. - -- My other Triumph runs, but.... ------------------------------ From: Orin Eman Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bhp, spark plug crap > > electrode, like a shadow or carbon tracks on the cylender, and you'd get > > crazy people making sure to line all of their spark plug electrodes > > pointing the same way. > There are 'crazy people' who do that. It's called indexing the plugs. > Someone else just posted a message about an SAE paper that covered the > subject. Haven't tried it myself. Then there are the triple electrode plugs where the ground electrodes are aranged around the side of the center electrode and the spark jumps to the side of the center electrode... the fact that there are three ground electrodes mainly allows the plug to last three times as long... the spark will take the path to the closest one. Orin. ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V2 #200 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".