DIY_EFI Digest             Tuesday, 24 June 1997       Volume 02 : Number 214

In this issue:

	Crank sensor signal mod
	RE: Using a scope
	RE: Recommend a good `scope for viewing injector pulses??
	Re: I'm somebody now!!!!
	Re: Fuel Dissociation Catalyst
	Please post
	FI idea using TBI throttle body
	GM TPI auto trans -> manual?
	RE: Using a scope
	RE: Using a scope
	RE: Fuel Dissociation Catalyst
	Re: I'm somebody now!!!!
	RE: Using a scope
	RE: I'm somebody now!!!!
	FW: Crank sensor signal mod
	Re: Unusual problem with LH 2.2 system
	RE: Using a scope
	RE: Using a scope

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the 
DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: djp@xxx.edu (Dick Protus)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:04:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Crank sensor signal mod

	I was wondering if anyone had ever modified the output signal of a
crank sensor to make it work with an ecm that was expecting a different 
sensor/wheel combination?

	Here's a little more info if you're interested:
I have a Honda CBR600 F3 motor in an mini formula style car (FSAE car).  The
engine normally is carburated and has a distributor less ignition, right now
it has been converted to turbocharged and efi.  The problem is that I had to
replace the stock crank sensor and wheel( 12 -3 toothed) with the efi's 
(electromotive) sensor and wheel ( 60 -2 toothed).  My current setup works but
is a pain to deal with.  
	This engine has a few interesting features, 
1) 4-stroke, 4 cylinder, dohc -> so I can use a efi system made for 4 cyl. car
2) the crank shaft doesn't poke out of the block since the transmission is also
   packaged in the block-> the crank sensor wheel is mounted to end of crank,
   but under a side cover that needs to be sealed.          
3) The rotor of the alternator is mounted to other end of crank, under another
   side cover.
The biggest pain is that the efi's sensor wheel won't fit underneath the stock
engine side cover.  I have a custom fabbed one that is plain old ugly and
plagued with oil leak problems.  I also tried extending the crank shaft through
the side cover with a seal around the shaft, but I could find anything that
could hold up at 13,000 rpm.

This all boils down to: I want to use the stock crank sensor but convert its 
signal to work with my efi.  The efi's wheel has a lot more precision (60 -2)
than the stock (12 -3) wheel, but I was wondering how important that precision
was, or if they went to 60 teeth to make the math and degrees work out nice.
Also, I have the option of using the frequency of the three phase voltage from
the alternator as a speed indicator.  (wouldn't suffer from any kind of belt 
lag or slipping since its mounted to the crank) 

Am i crazy or can this be done?

Dick Protus
GT Motorsports
404-894-3222
djp@xxx.edu

------------------------------

From: Frederic Breitwieser <frederic.breitwieser@xxx.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:29:40 -0400
Subject: RE: Using a scope

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My scope has two seperate leads, one with an alligator clip, one with a 
sharp point (mine's kinda flattened out actually), and putting across 
anything automotive so far hasn't resulted in anything exploding, smoking, 
or making sizzling sounds.  I do have a 100ma fuse in series with the 
ground lead, which has popped on occasion.  Maybe my scope's input not be 
grounded?  Or maybe its high impedence?  Maybe its just broken?  Its 
certainly an old scope....

Fred

- ----------
From: 	Tom Cloud
Sent: 	Monday, June 23, 1997 10:55 AM
To: 	diy_efi@xxx.edu
Subject: 	RE: Using a scope

At 11:42 AM 6/23/97 -0400, Frederic Breitwieser wrote:

>Fear not Mr. Mechanical <smile>, most 'scopes have a high enough impedance 
>(loading capacity) that you can snoop around circuits without causing
>issues, and you can directly attach your 'scope to the injector, and view
>the pulses directly.

Fred .... remember that the scope probe ground clip is attached
directly to the scope chassis and then to the AC ground.  Care
needs to be taken where it's attached in a circuit -- it's
NOT high Z

Tom Cloud <cloud@xxx.edu>

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------------------------------

From: Frederic Breitwieser <frederic.breitwieser@xxx.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:29:48 -0400
Subject: RE: Recommend a good `scope for viewing injector pulses??

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Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Brad -

Naaaaah.... got mine at a flea market.  Not sure if it was a church or 
school flea market, or something else, it was a helluva long time ago.  But 
it was dirt cheap :)

And I am very good about returning tools... just wish most of my friends 
were :)

Fred

- ----------
From: 	Brad Sheridan
Sent: 	Monday, June 23, 1997 10:00 AM
To: 	diy_efi@xxx.edu
Subject: 	RE: Recommend a good `scope for viewing injector pulses??

Fred wrote:
>Hello Chris...
>
>If you are frugal like me, you want to borrow a friend's scope or purchase
>one at a flea market.  I managed to do that many years ago and still have
>the thing.

  You managed to do which? Did you borrow it several years ago, and still
have it? Just hope your friend that you borrowed the scope from isn't
reading the list :)

Brad



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------------------------------

From: MikeTurner@xxx.com (Mike Turner)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:41:20 -0400
Subject: Re: I'm somebody now!!!!

Nice job! But beauty truly lies in the eyes of the beholder. Have you received any positive neighborly feedback yet?


To: british-cars-pre-war <british-cars-pre-war@xxx.edu> @ INTERNET, 
Homebrew-Autos <Homebrew-Autos@xxx.net> @ INTERNET
cc:  
From: Aron Travis <atravis@xxx.net> @ INTERNET
Date: 06/23/97 05:16:53 PM
Subject: I'm somebody now!!!!

Howdy all,
 Some of you may remember that I had some city code problems
with one of my cars, earlier this year. 
Well the picture of the offending car is now on the internet (picture 
Steve Martin in 'The Jerk'-"I'm somebody now!").
This car has nothing to do with any of my email lists, ie it's not
british or pre-war, it's not FI, and I didn't build it my self. But
any gearhead should at least get a kick out of the paint job alone.
The full sorrid story of my code problems, and solutions, will be 
posted soon at the same URL.
I'm posting this because most of you car nuts could have the same
problems that I had, ie sensitive neighbors and a city looking for
easy revenue.

 http://www.galaxieclub.com/memcarpix/64/travis.html

- -Aron Travis-
"always in a automotive frenzy"

P.S. Fred B.- you'll especially like this one!

------------------------------

From: Joe Boucher <BoucherJC@xxx.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:01:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Fuel Dissociation Catalyst

>From: Richard Cartledge 

>I know you're sceptical, but I've got some more information, I know what
>the catalyst is, it's Nickel. I have tried using washing-up liquid,
>alcohols and solvents to try and make water and gasoline miscible, but I
>>now know that the 'emulsifyer' is a 'proprietry clear viscous syruppy
liquid'. which means I'll try various glycols, geletins, and glycerols

[snip]

The first time I heard of this guy and this water/gas mixture was in
"Automobile" magazine.  The article mentioned the magic emulsifier, but
nothing about a catalyst.  Anyway, the punch line came three or four
months later when the columnist that broke the story orginally started
of the follow up column by saying, "Okay, for all you guys who have been
wearing out your wife's blender and using up all her dishwashing
detergent for the past three months ...".  I rolled on the floor.

I hope you guys can find this holy grail.

Joe Boucher
'70 Camaro, '81 TBI Suburban

------------------------------

From: Mpotheau@xxx.com
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:16:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Please post

A non English speaking friend of mine is having problems with his BMW 730i.
 The car is far, far away and I cannot reach out and touch it.  I am not
familiar with how the conversion was done, it has kindly been described as
butcherwork.  The car runs on both LPG and Gasoline (one at a time).  The
reason for this is obvious- cost of LPG is about 1/3 of gasoline.

Car runs fine on gas, no problems of note.  On LPG the car does not
decelerate smoothly, sorta a reverse hesitation when lifting off the
throttle.
mpotheau@xxx.com
Michel Potheau

------------------------------

From: Joe Boucher <BoucherJC@xxx.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:10:21 -0500
Subject: FI idea using TBI throttle body

It's very gratifying when you have the same idea as someone who you
consider smarter or better.  Edelbrock has honored me by producing a
system similar to something I was thinking of.

Edelbrock has released a fuel injection system using a throttle body
minus the injectors as the metering system, a MAP sensor and a regular
manifold with individual injectors for each valve.  I'm resonably sure
the injectors are ganged fired one way or another.

I had been thinking for a few months about a system similar to this.  My
Camaro has large intake passages making for slow velocities at idle and
low engine speeds resulting in the possibilty of fuel dropping out of
suspension in the intake stream.  So, a throttle body fuel injection
system scheme would not improve this.  TPI would give you individual
injectors which would help this situation by at least spraying the fuel
in the vacinity of the valves but is expensive compared to the TBI.
Also, stock TBI manifolds don't like RPM's over 4500 to 5000 unless you
buy the big siamesed runners.  Part of this mental game was to leave the
engine internally in the same configuration as it is now. The power band
now is from about 2500 to 6500 RPM.  I was playing with the idea of
combining individual injectors at each valve with the TBI throttle body
as the metering device and holder of the throttle position sensor when I
saw Edelbrocks ad.  And the over $1000 price.

My afore mentioned electron challenged knowledge has a hole in relation
to this idea.  How would the impedance of firing four injectors a side
effect the TBI ECM designed for one per side?  Not knowing the impedance
for the TBI injectors is a problem.  I have seen references for the
Bosch type injectors listing the impedance. Could a combination of
parallel and series ganging of the individual injectors get the
impedance close to the one TBI injector?  Will driving four instead of
one overpower the power output of the ECM resulting in burned out
components regardless of matching impedance?

Before anyone spends alot of time on this, it's a mental exercise for
now.

I have another question about FI and cams with lots of overlap, but I'll
post that later.

Joe Boucher
'70 Camaro '81 TBI Suburban

------------------------------

From: "Robert W. Hughes" <rwhughe@xxx.org>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:09:40 -0700
Subject: GM TPI auto trans -> manual?

I have compared the proms (calpaks?) on a number of Fiero V6's from
86-88 with both automatic and manual transmissions. The engines are
essentially the same in this period and the proms for a given
transmission only show a few changes but... there are many and major
differences in the proms for manual and automatic transmissions.

I don't know how much of the operation is transmission dependent but I
do know the cpu uses road speed and engine speed to determine the gear
ratio in use. This is used at least for the torque converter clutch or
shift light.

Life would probably be much simpler if you break down and buy (or copy)
the prom for the transmission used.

Bob

------------------------------

From: cloud@xxx.edu (Tom Cloud)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:10:52 +0000
Subject: RE: Using a scope

Fred .... this reminds me of the good ole boys line "I'm just
an old country boy" .... thir voices always go up about 1/8
note in pitch and I immediately grab for my wallet (to be sure
it's still there) ..... so, you don't really expect me to
fall for this "I'm just a poor ole boy what don't know
nothin" line, do ya  ??    8^)

At 09:29 AM 6/24/97 -0400, Frederic Breitwieser wrote:
>My scope has two seperate leads, one with an alligator clip, one with a 
>sharp point (mine's kinda flattened out actually), and putting across 
>anything automotive so far hasn't resulted in anything exploding, smoking, 
>or making sizzling sounds.  I do have a 100ma fuse in series with the 
>ground lead, which has popped on occasion.  Maybe my scope's input not be 
>grounded?  Or maybe its high impedence?  Maybe its just broken?  Its 
>certainly an old scope....

unless you've got an old Dumont or such that has a "Sync" instead
of a trigger (i.e. all vacuum tubes .... and still old even for
those days), the scope ground lead is connected to the AC line
ground -- check it with your ohmmeter.  There's normally
no problem since bench power supplies (and your car) are
isolated from the AC mains (unless the bench supply has
one of the outputs grounded or some other piece of equipment
hooked into the circuit is connected to the AC ground).

The 100 mA fuse should *never* blow -- after all, the
scope's input Z = 1 megohm (not counting the shield/ground
being connected to the chassis).

>>At 11:42 AM 6/23/97 -0400, Frederic Breitwieser wrote:
>>
>>>Fear not Mr. Mechanical <smile>, most 'scopes have a high enough impedance 
>>>(loading capacity) that you can snoop around circuits without causing
>>>issues, and you can directly attach your 'scope to the injector, and view
>>>the pulses directly.
>>
>>Fred .... remember that the scope probe ground clip is attached
>>directly to the scope chassis and then to the AC ground.  Care
>>needs to be taken where it's attached in a circuit -- it's
>>NOT high Z


Tom Cloud <cloud@xxx.edu>

------------------------------

From: cloud@xxx.edu (Tom Cloud)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:10:52 +0000
Subject: RE: Using a scope

Fred .... this reminds me of the good ole boys line "I'm just
an old country boy" .... thir voices always go up about 1/8
note in pitch and I immediately grab for my wallet (to be sure
it's still there) ..... so, you don't really expect me to
fall for this "I'm just a poor ole boy what don't know
nothin" line, do ya  ??    8^)

At 09:29 AM 6/24/97 -0400, Frederic Breitwieser wrote:
>My scope has two seperate leads, one with an alligator clip, one with a 
>sharp point (mine's kinda flattened out actually), and putting across 
>anything automotive so far hasn't resulted in anything exploding, smoking, 
>or making sizzling sounds.  I do have a 100ma fuse in series with the 
>ground lead, which has popped on occasion.  Maybe my scope's input not be 
>grounded?  Or maybe its high impedence?  Maybe its just broken?  Its 
>certainly an old scope....

unless you've got an old Dumont or such that has a "Sync" instead
of a trigger (i.e. all vacuum tubes .... and still old even for
those days), the scope ground lead is connected to the AC line
ground -- check it with your ohmmeter.  There's normally
no problem since bench power supplies (and your car) are
isolated from the AC mains (unless the bench supply has
one of the outputs grounded or some other piece of equipment
hooked into the circuit is connected to the AC ground).

The 100 mA fuse should *never* blow -- after all, the
scope's input Z = 1 megohm (not counting the shield/ground
being connected to the chassis).

>>At 11:42 AM 6/23/97 -0400, Frederic Breitwieser wrote:
>>
>>>Fear not Mr. Mechanical <smile>, most 'scopes have a high enough impedance 
>>>(loading capacity) that you can snoop around circuits without causing
>>>issues, and you can directly attach your 'scope to the injector, and view
>>>the pulses directly.
>>
>>Fred .... remember that the scope probe ground clip is attached
>>directly to the scope chassis and then to the AC ground.  Care
>>needs to be taken where it's attached in a circuit -- it's
>>NOT high Z


Tom Cloud <cloud@xxx.edu>

------------------------------

From: Frederic Breitwieser <frederic.breitwieser@xxx.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:40:09 -0400
Subject: RE: Fuel Dissociation Catalyst

- --Boundary_(ID_Al7QX1KyvtrduUfmJ0auIQ)
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hey Richard!

Actually, I didn't make the gold comments... just the wise-ass sarcasm 
immediately afterwards, however I believe you are correct in saying the 
catalyst material is Nickel.  Maybe my INCO stocks will go up one of these 
decades :)


Fred

- ----------
From: 	Richard Cartledge
Sent: 	Monday, June 23, 1997 4:59 PM
To: 	diy_efi@xxx.edu
Subject: 	Re: Fuel Dissociation Catalyst

Frederic Breitwieser wrote:
>
> > The "precious metal catalyst" is probably Gold - straight from  your
> > wallet.  This story has been around for 50 years - power from pills -
>
> Reminds me of the alchemists of the early kingdom days... turning metal
> into gold through magic.  So now I know why most of them were beheaded...
- ----------------------
I know you're sceptical, but I've got some more information, I know what
the catalyst is, it's Nickel. I have tried using washing-up liquid,
alcohols and solvents to try and make water and gasoline miscible, but I
now know that the 'emulsifyer' is a 'proprietry clear viscous syruppy
liquid'. which means I'll try various glycols, geletins, and glycerols
etc....

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------------------------------

From: Aron Travis <atravis@xxx.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 11:17:30 -0700
Subject: Re: I'm somebody now!!!!

Mike Turner wrote:
> 
> Nice job! But beauty truly lies in the eyes of the beholder. Have you received any positive neighborly feedback yet?
> 

Yes, most think it's neat. The code problems were being generated from
the home owners association president, he's been booted out so no
more problems.
- -Aron-

------------------------------

From: "Gregory Chan" <gchan@xxx.ca>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:26:48 EDT
Subject: RE: Using a scope

> 
> At 09:29 AM 6/24/97 -0400, Frederic Breitwieser wrote:
> >My scope has two seperate leads, one with an alligator clip, one with a 
> >sharp point (mine's kinda flattened out actually), and putting across 
> >anything automotive so far hasn't resulted in anything exploding, smoking, 
> >or making sizzling sounds.  I do have a 100ma fuse in series with the 
> >ground lead, which has popped on occasion.  Maybe my scope's input not be 
> >grounded?  Or maybe its high impedence?  Maybe its just broken?  Its 
> >certainly an old scope....
> 
> unless you've got an old Dumont or such that has a "Sync" instead
> of a trigger (i.e. all vacuum tubes .... and still old even for
> those days), the scope ground lead is connected to the AC line
> ground -- check it with your ohmmeter.  There's normally
> no problem since bench power supplies (and your car) are
> isolated from the AC mains (unless the bench supply has
> one of the outputs grounded or some other piece of equipment
> hooked into the circuit is connected to the AC ground).
> 
> The 100 mA fuse should *never* blow -- after all, the
> scope's input Z = 1 megohm (not counting the shield/ground
> being connected to the chassis).
> 
> >>At 11:42 AM 6/23/97 -0400, Frederic Breitwieser wrote:
> >>
> >>>Fear not Mr. Mechanical <smile>, most 'scopes have a high enough impedance 
> >>>(loading capacity) that you can snoop around circuits without causing
> >>>issues, and you can directly attach your 'scope to the injector, and view
> >>>the pulses directly.
> >>
> >>Fred .... remember that the scope probe ground clip is attached
> >>directly to the scope chassis and then to the AC ground.  Care
> >>needs to be taken where it's attached in a circuit -- it's
> >>NOT high Z
> 
> 
That's where the isolation transformer comes in or you can break off 
the ground tab on the mains plug so there is no return path. This is 
not recommended by the electrical authorities though.

gchan@xxx.ca

------------------------------

From: Frederic Breitwieser <frederic.breitwieser@xxx.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 11:49:22 -0400
Subject: RE: I'm somebody now!!!!

- --Boundary_(ID_Y4Ocbl/ZCuRwaG7S52mYWg)
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Neighbors can be annoying... the gal(s) who live next door (townhouse) 
blast their conga music all day (and sometimes, all night), yet they 
complained the two times I fired up the second 3.8L (hanging on the crane) 
to see how it ran when I got it from the junkyard.  5 minutes without 
headers/mufflers, big deal :)

Wait until the whole car is done :) heh-heh.

Fred

- ----------
From: 	Mike Turner
Sent: 	Tuesday, June 24, 1997 9:41 AM
To: 	diy_efi
Subject: 	Re: I'm somebody now!!!!

Nice job! But beauty truly lies in the eyes of the beholder. Have you 
received any positive neighborly feedback yet?



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------------------------------

From: "Atkinson, David" <DATKINSO@xxx.COM>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 97 18:00:00 MDT
Subject: FW: Crank sensor signal mod

Hi.  Electromotive sells smaller diameter wheels.  The high number of   
teeth leads to better ignition timing and injection event timing.  I'm   
pretty sure they use 60 teeth to make the math happy and nice.  Check out   
this link:

http://www.electromotive-inc.com/trigger.htm

Hope that helps!

 Dave

 ----------
From:  djp
Sent:  Tuesday, June 24, 1997 9:04 AM
To:  DIY_EFI
Subject:  Crank sensor signal mod

        I was wondering if anyone had ever modified the output signal of   
a
crank sensor to make it work with an ecm that was expecting a different
sensor/wheel combination?

        Here's a little more info if you're interested:
I have a Honda CBR600 F3 motor in an mini formula style car (FSAE car).   
 The
engine normally is carburated and has a distributor less ignition, right   
now
it has been converted to turbocharged and efi.  The problem is that I had   
to
replace the stock crank sensor and wheel( 12 -3 toothed) with the efi's
(electromotive) sensor and wheel ( 60 -2 toothed).  My current setup   
works but
is a pain to deal with.
        This engine has a few interesting features,
1) 4-stroke, 4 cylinder, dohc -> so I can use a efi system made for 4   
cyl. car
2) the crank shaft doesn't poke out of the block since the transmission   
is
also
   packaged in the block-> the crank sensor wheel is mounted to end of   
crank,
   but under a side cover that needs to be sealed.
3) The rotor of the alternator is mounted to other end of crank, under   
another
   side cover.
The biggest pain is that the efi's sensor wheel won't fit underneath the   
stock
engine side cover.  I have a custom fabbed one that is plain old ugly and
plagued with oil leak problems.  I also tried extending the crank shaft
through
the side cover with a seal around the shaft, but I could find anything   
that
could hold up at 13,000 rpm.

This all boils down to: I want to use the stock crank sensor but convert   
its
signal to work with my efi.  The efi's wheel has a lot more precision (60   
 -2)
than the stock (12 -3) wheel, but I was wondering how important that   
precision
was, or if they went to 60 teeth to make the math and degrees work out   
nice.
Also, I have the option of using the frequency of the three phase voltage   
from
the alternator as a speed indicator.  (wouldn't suffer from any kind of   
belt
lag or slipping since its mounted to the crank)

Am i crazy or can this be done?

Dick Protus
GT Motorsports
404-894-3222
djp@xxx.edu

------------------------------

From: "Gregory Chan" <gchan@xxx.ca>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:04:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Unusual problem with LH 2.2 system

> 
> Just as guess but have you checked the throttle position sensor?  It 
> sounds like when you close off the throttle the engines is still too rich 
> so I'm guessing the ECU doesn't know you've backed off.  There are no 
> detectable divability problems probably becuase the system works well 
> enough on just air flow and RPM signals alone.
> Just my $0.02 worth.  Let me know what it was when you figure it out. Don't 
> you hate it when people say that :)
> 
That exact thing happened to me with a highly modified motor and is a 
signal that the motor is running rich. If you haven't done anything 
to the motor ( mods ) then the air filter could be partially clogged 
up or some sensor like the temp sensor is faulty.

gchan@xxx.ca

------------------------------

From: cloud@xxx.edu (Tom Cloud)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:09:14 +0000
Subject: RE: Using a scope

>> >>.... remember that the scope probe ground clip is attached
>> >>directly to the scope chassis and then to the AC ground.  Care
>> >>needs to be taken where it's attached in a circuit -- it's
>> >>NOT high Z
>> 
>> 
>That's where the isolation transformer comes in or you can break off 
>the ground tab on the mains plug so there is no return path. This is 
>not recommended by the electrical authorities though.

that's what I do (or put a 2-wire adaptor plug on the end
of the cord) -- just want to caution everyone that that puts
the scope chassis at the same joltage as wherever you hang
the probe ground clip

I *always* get rid of the grounding tab on the soldering iron,
since it can cause serious problems if you're soldering in
live circuits (which I often do) .... and don't get me started
about the hocus-pocus re static.

Tom Cloud <cloud@xxx.edu>

------------------------------

From: Frederic Breitwieser <frederic.breitwieser@xxx.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:36:22 -0400
Subject: RE: Using a scope

- --Boundary_(ID_6ZUc/5atpUtLKDnWcfRrQA)
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Well Tom, I'm definately a RedNeck.  A Wall St. Redneck :).  The fact I 
drive a large truck with a gunrack proves that.

Next time I'm in my basement, I will pull it out of the back room and take 
a look at it... I remember that its solid state, as it says it all over it 
as if they manufacturer's were very proud, so this should tell everyone how 
ancient this thing really is!  I'm pretty sure it has a 2-prong polarized 
plug... not the traditional 3-prong.  Well, no sense in defending myself or 
what it is until I look at it and really know for sure.  Hang on, will be 
right back :)

1M-ohm is reasonably high impedance, don't you think?  If that's the case, 
then the probe can be touched against just about anything external to the 
car's ECM and measure voltages and waveforms just fine, right?

Maybe that's why nothing has blown up yet :)

Fred

- ----------
From: 	Tom Cloud
Sent: 	Tuesday, June 24, 1997 6:10 AM
To: 	diy_efi@xxx.ohio-state  
.edu'
Subject: 	RE: Using a scope

Fred .... this reminds me of the good ole boys line "I'm just
an old country boy" .... thir voices always go up about 1/8
note in pitch and I immediately grab for my wallet (to be sure
it's still there) ..... so, you don't really expect me to
fall for this "I'm just a poor ole boy what don't know
nothin" line, do ya  ??    8^)

<snip>

The 100 mA fuse should *never* blow -- after all, the
scope's input Z = 1 megohm (not counting the shield/ground
being connected to the chassis).

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------------------------------

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