DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 25 June 1997 Volume 02 : Number 215 In this issue: Re: I'm somebody now!!!! RE: GM TPI auto trans -> manual? RE: Using a scope CNG Injectors csp3000 processor Using TPI on a non-GM engine Re: Crank sensor signal mod Re: Using TPI on a non-GM engine See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. T. Kelly" Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:48:53 -0500 Subject: Re: I'm somebody now!!!! Fred, I just wanted you to know the last message you posted had that 1k .dat attachment again. I haven't seen that from you lately and I know you were working on it before, so I thought I'd give you a heads-up. Tim - ---------- > From: Frederic Breitwieser > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' > Subject: RE: I'm somebody now!!!! > Date: Tuesday, June 24, 1997 10:49 AM > > Neighbors can be annoying... the gal(s) who live next door (townhouse) > blast their conga music all day (and sometimes, all night), yet they > complained the two times I fired up the second 3.8L (hanging on the crane) > to see how it ran when I got it from the junkyard. 5 minutes without > headers/mufflers, big deal :) > > Wait until the whole car is done :) heh-heh. > > Fred > > ---------- > From: Mike Turner > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 1997 9:41 AM > To: diy_efi > Subject: Re: I'm somebody now!!!! > > Nice job! But beauty truly lies in the eyes of the beholder. Have you > received any positive neighborly feedback yet? > > > ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 15:16:18 -0400 Subject: RE: GM TPI auto trans -> manual? - --Boundary_(ID_RwGEYSXZsbnpFVKeq3SbqQ) Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hey Robert! Enjoying this thread a lot. However, according to that website you forwarded my way, that particular gent merely wired the ECM to think its in "drive" continuously, which I think has a lot of potential as far as an easy way of doing things... of course I'm timid when it comes to reverse engineering ECM and associated code, but that's another issue altogether. Most auto vehicles that I've driven (okay, ALL I've ever driven), I've been able to put the vehicle in LOW, then 2nd, then 3rd, then OD for trailer towing, to prevent the economy-oriented setup (mechanical or electronic) from shifting "early" with a heavy trailer of firewood. And the vehicles run fine. No missing or sputtering. While I'm presenting an extremely simplistic viewpoint here, I'm hoping to convey the logic I am using, which very well might be way, way, way off. Where I'm anticipating a "situation" is when I push the clutch in to shift... while I can shift quite fast and manage to instinctively know when and at what RPM to release the clutch for the next higher/lower gear, on this "loadless deceleration" of the engine is where I'd guess any drivability problems might arise. What do you think? Think I might even be close? To make things even more interesting, at least for my little project, once the chassis is done and drivable with this engine (1986 3.8L GM), its going to be receiving a GN crank, GN turbo, GN pistons, Cam, etc, along with an aftermarket ECM Prom for the GN (Grand National). According to all the folks I've spoken to, its doable :) This should be a lot of fun! Frederic Breitwieser http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html HomeBrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport Connecticut - ---------- From: Robert W. Hughes Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 1997 1:09 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: GM TPI auto trans -> manual? I have compared the proms (calpaks?) on a number of Fiero V6's from 86-88 with both automatic and manual transmissions. The engines are essentially the same in this period and the proms for a given transmission only show a few changes but... there are many and major differences in the proms for manual and automatic transmissions. I don't know how much of the operation is transmission dependent but I do know the cpu uses road speed and engine speed to determine the gear ratio in use. This is used at least for the torque converter clutch or shift light. Life would probably be much simpler if you break down and buy (or copy) the prom for the transmission used. Bob - --Boundary_(ID_RwGEYSXZsbnpFVKeq3SbqQ) Content-type: APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM Content-transfer-encoding: X-UUENCODE begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A83`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@xxx.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`6 0```(````4`````P``, 4````+``\.``````(!_P\!````8P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&1I>5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !````(P```&1I>5]E M9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F``$0`0```$0```!.;R!T5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F``(P M`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !````(P```&1I>5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE M;F# $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```" ```!F``@0`0`` M`&4```!(15E23T)%4E1%3DI/64E.1U1(25-42%)%041!3$]42$]7159%4BQ! M0T-/4D1)3D=43U1(051714)3251%64]51D]25T%21$5$35E705DL5$A!5%!! 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Fred - ---------- From: Tom Cloud Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 1997 8:09 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: RE: Using a scope I *always* get rid of the grounding tab on the soldering iron, since it can cause serious problems if you're soldering in live circuits (which I often do) .... and don't get me started about the hocus-pocus re static. - --Boundary_(ID_8ZVG24kGWumgxfGnxp09Lg) Content-type: APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM Content-transfer-encoding: X-UUENCODE begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@P3`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@xxx.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`9 $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````8P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&1I>5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !````(P```&1I>5]E M9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F``$P`0```"4````G9&EY7V5F:4!C;W5L;VUB+F5N9RYO:&EO+7-T871E M+F5D=2<``````@$+, $````H````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$-/54Q/34(N14Y' M+D](24\M4U1!5$4N1415``,``#D`````"P! .@$````"`?8/`0````0````` M```"VDT!!( !`!(```!213H@57-I;F<@82!S8V]P90"R!0$%@ ,`#@```,T' M!@`8``\`%0`#``(`&P$!(( #``X```#-!P8`& `/`!0`$ `"`"S&$="\]P"@)(52?P``'@`># $````% M````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```" ```!F``@0`0```&4```!/3DU95T5, M3$5225)/3BQ)4%5405-7251#2$].5$A%0D%3151/4U=)5$-(5$A%1U)/54Y$ M3$5!1%1/5$A%25)/3DE.04Y$3U543T942$5#25)#54E4+%=/4DM%1$=214%4 M1D]2``````(!"1 !````EP(``),"``"X! ``3%I&=1-.>:?_``H!#P(5`J0# MY 7K`H,`4!,#5 (`8V@xxx.XR!@`&PP*#,@/&!Q,"@Q(S$P]F- ]Z:&5L MT0,@1&QG`H!]"H (S\4)V3L7GS(U-0* "H&##;$+8&YG,3 S%""7"PH2\@P! M8P! ($\#H#!M>2!W%C$$D"!I`0-@;BP@22!P=:D%0&$@`^%T$; @`B#$('06 M("!B81'P'L >;QXF'M()P A@;F0@_1T082"0'V$>TAU2'4 #H$\`<""0"& % M0&]F'L-C61U08W4>4!V0=P6P:S\)@" Q(, %0 (0!A)YPC"O0D@#$X, +1:2UX M,30T#? ,T"J3"UDQMC8*H -@xxx.BV^DRPV M#((@5 -P($,7,/YU**8MSRPV!F ","^?,*RA"E!S9&%Y'9!*(' )'O R-!V0 M,3DY-Z @xxx.1-P33(/#RYM,7 T3S"K9&EY7SD-P&E !: F$ -P8BX#"? G M<&]H:6\M6T(8"<7H$EJ;@xxx.@X&1O*2 N4/$AXU"P_&XG M!4!',@> 'B !D `@3RB7`: B,A[2:&\C$'/<+7!3XB714D)T3_ GAB]#_QNW M19T6P0!8< `#`! 0``````,`$1 !````0 `',! SUZ73@+P!0 `(,! SUZ73 A@+P!'@`]``$````%````4D4Z( `````#``TT_3<``/HA ` end - --Boundary_(ID_8ZVG24kGWumgxfGnxp09Lg)-- ------------------------------ From: James Thorne Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:29:29 -0500 Subject: CNG Injectors The CNG Mustang project utilized Bosch 72lb/hr methenol indy injectors. These are also available from MSD. They were rated to 100psi and we found they would work reliably to 125 for at least short term. The flow rates for CNG were determined by flow bench testing. THe jest of the testing was that the 72lb/hr methenol injectors would flow about 19lb/hr of CNG at 80psig. We set our regulator at 80psig, built a peak and hold, low impedence driver board for 16 injectors and used a modified Crane Interceptor 2/EEC-IV programmable FI system driving 2 injectors per cylinder. Car made over 600 HP on the dyno and set the fastest lap of the day at the Charlotte event (It was also the only functioning CNG car there). The engine was a modified Ford 302, and a Vortec supercharger. Nice fuel. Detonation was NOT a problem at any boost level or reasonable timing setting. The car is still mostly in one piece but has not been driven in over 2 years and is sitting in the back corner of the shop. If you wich to see it, I could make arrangements. Let me know if there is any other specific data you need. The car we built was far from an optimized design but was built and run in less than 4 months on a minimal budget. It did run well. The project never went any further as there was little interest from the press or Ford for the CNG fuel by the time the project was complete. James Thorne ------------------------------ From: djp@xxx.edu (Dick Protus) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:35:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: csp3000 processor On the diy_efi web page there is reference to a car signal processor, csp3000. I couldn't find a reference to the manufacturor or any info on it anywhere else. I was wondering if anyone knew who makes it, where I can get one, if there's a data sheet available, etc.. thanks Dick Protus GT Motorsports 404-894-3222 djp@xxx.edu ------------------------------ From: Brock and Jennifer Fraser Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 20:50:58 -0500 Subject: Using TPI on a non-GM engine Hey all, I'm considering using a ECM, sensors, and harness off of an '89 Camaro 350 TPI to control another type of v8. (Infiniti Q45 V8, 32v) The parts are available and cheap compared to a stand-alone system. Not to mention, very tunable with the right information and know-how. :) Everything is basically cookbook (with regards to prom mod's and tuning and sensor mounting) except the fact that the Q45 engine lacks a distributor. Is anyone familiar with the electrical inputs and outputs of the ECM/ignition system as they relate to the coil, ignition module, and rpm signal from the distributor (on a TPI setup...)? Obviously, I'm going to try to skin-graft some kind of distrubutor onto the engine, maybe where the OEM cam position sensor was. Thank you, Brock Fraser Mech. Engr. Ex-Hypertech (looking fer a job!) ------------------------------ From: eric schumacher Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:49:36 -0700 Subject: Re: Crank sensor signal mod Hi Dick If you need pulses from a 12 tooth wheel and want to work with a 60 tooth wheel just divide (count down) by five. Usually you are not so lucky and it is an odd fraction. Then you have multiply by the numerator and divide the result by the denominator. At 01:04 PM 6/24/97 +0000, you wrote: > I was wondering if anyone had ever modified the output signal of a >crank sensor to make it work with an ecm that was expecting a different >sensor/wheel combination? ------------------------------ From: peter paul fenske Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Using TPI on a non-GM engine Hi Brock I would consider the Infiniti system superior. I would suppose you don't have it available.. I guess you could use a hei module driven by some sort of crank trigger alla MSD or chrysler race to drive the ecm.. Still though from what I have seen a batch fire distributer system like gms doesn't compare to Infinities.. If you need more insight let me know:peter At 08:50 PM 6/25/96 -0500, you wrote: >Hey all, > >I'm considering using a ECM, sensors, and harness off of an '89 Camaro 350 >TPI to control another type of v8. (Infiniti Q45 V8, 32v) The parts are >available and cheap compared to a stand-alone system. Not to mention, very >tunable with the right information and know-how. :) > > >Everything is basically cookbook (with regards to prom mod's and tuning and >sensor mounting) except the fact that the Q45 engine lacks a distributor. >Is anyone familiar with the electrical inputs and outputs of the >ECM/ignition system as they relate to the coil, ignition module, and rpm >signal from the distributor (on a TPI setup...)? > >Obviously, I'm going to try to skin-graft some kind of distrubutor onto the >engine, maybe where the OEM cam position sensor was. > >Thank you, > >Brock Fraser >Mech. Engr. >Ex-Hypertech (looking fer a job!) > > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V2 #215 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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