DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 2 July 1997 Volume 02 : Number 223 In this issue: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) Re: TPI on a 6cyl Re: Jaguars Re: '89 Firebird ECM PROM Re: Jaguars Re: Jaguars Re: '89 Firebird ECM PROM Re: fuel rail needed Re: Jaguars RE: Big overlap cams and EFI TPI and Jags That Run Re: Jaguars RE :JTR Fuel line, fittings Re: Jaguars Re: Jaguars Re: Jaguars RE: TPI on a 6cyl Re: Fuel line, fittings Re: Speedo See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jsg (John S Gwynne) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 06:10:07 -0400 Subject: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) This message is post monthly as a reminder of the available list services. For help: Send "help" to Majordomo@xxx. To post: Send to "[list name]@xxx.edu" To subscribe: Send to Majordomo@xxx.edu subscribe [list name] [your email address *only* if different than your "From" address] To unsubscribe: Send to Majordomo@xxx.edu unsubscribe [list name] [your *registered* email address if different than your "From" address] The archive to each mailing list is available through the following sources: 1) WWW. http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 2) ftp. ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 3) Majordomo. Send "index [list name]" to Majordomo@xxx. You will find a file "archive_date_index" whose contents show the period covered by each of the archive files "archive_num_*". Digest mode is available for each mailing list. Send "lists" to Majordomo for a listing a mailing lists served. To switch to the digest mode, unsubscribe from the regular list and then subscribe to the digest version (i.e., diy_efi-digest). WWW site (for diy_efi and efi332): http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ Please send information to be added to this posting to jsg@xxx. John ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 09:13:18 -0400 Subject: Re: TPI on a 6cyl Greetings, I have a Buick 3.8L engine bagged from a FWD Buick LeSabre, which has the same ECM and basic wiring harness as the Buick GN. I have confirmed this with someone who works for Buick, and take him at his word explicitly. There are minor emission-hose differences according to the Chilton's manuals I have, however they are very minor. Most of the differences are internal to the engine, such as cam-lobe sizing, bearing sizes, bolt pattern on the back of the block (The GN uses a RWD style block, and the LeSabre uses a FWD style block), the heads are different, and of course, the code within the ECM are different. What's a little known fact is some of the internals are completely swappable, according to what I've found from several machine shops in the area as well as a local GM dealer. I'm :at some point: going to take this little FWD 3.8L and replace some of the internals with GN aftermarket parts, and build a high-performance engine. There are many, many sites on the web that talk about GN engines, and the 3.8L FWD upgrades (such as adding a turbo), as well as the new generation 3800II engine. Search infoseek for 'Buick 3.8L' and you will receive a lot of hits... I'd pass along my Internet Explorer "favorites" list, however my machine at work was recently "upgraded" to the corporate standard desktop, which required the LAN guys to reformat my disk without asking. Best of luck! Frederic J. Breitwieser Jr. Homebrew Automotive Mailing List http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html Bridgeport, Connecticut USA - ---------- - ---------- > Are you saying that the GN system is the same as other buick 6cyl FI > systems of the same time period with just a different EPROM?I don't know > much about different GM systems and the years and models during which > things changed. I just know a little about TPI systems since there is so > much on the web and in catalogs for those things. I have also seen > numerous sites on Buick turbos, but figured it was a special system for > GN. > Is the MAF different between GNs and non turbo buicks? Do non turbo > buicks have the distributorless ignitions? > I am interested in something REALLY common, so that I can get it from > the local junkyard CHEAP! ------------------------------ From: Mark Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 08:28:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Jaguars At 08:23 PM 6/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Thomas > > Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He install >tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb page is >http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated with him - just >like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 into s-10s. > >Vance > >PS: bought three of the electronic speedo - any one have good source for >sending unit? Hi vance, I tried the url but no luck. Could you verify or correct it if it's wrong? I sure would appreciate it. TIA Mark> ------------------------------ From: Alex Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 23:27:23 +1000 Subject: Re: '89 Firebird ECM PROM Re John Hess John, The IC you are talking about is an 128K CMOS EEPROM. If you have a look at any EEPROM manufactures data books you will find that they are 'garden variety' chips. Regards Alex ------------------------------ From: Matt Teagarden Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 10:52:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Jaguars it's http://www.jagsthatrun.com - -Matt >I tried the url but no luck. Could you verify or correct it if it's wrong? >I sure would appreciate it. TIA >Mark> (-/---------------------\ | / | | | |\ | / |_________| |_______| \__|________ | ____ ____ | | / \ Chevrolet / \ | [|___/ OO \________________/ 00 \___|] 0000 0000 00 00 Matt Teagarden Blazer40@xxx.net Pittsburgh, PA Http://www.cobweb.net/~blazer40 1985 406V8 S-Blazer ------------------------------ From: "steve ravet" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:58:29 +0000 Subject: Re: Jaguars > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:23:31 -0700 (PDT) > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > From: Jennifer Rose > Subject: Jaguars > Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Hi Thomas > > Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He > install > tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb > page is http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated > with him - just like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 > into s-10s. > > Vance > > PS: bought three of the electronic speedo - any one have good source > for sending unit? > the WWW page is www.jagsthatrun.com I also recommend his books, I have the S-10 one and the general TPI one. Couldn't have done my S-10 swap without it. - --steve ------------------------------ From: Terry Martin Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 08:56:00 -0700 Subject: Re: '89 Firebird ECM PROM Alex wrote: > > Re John Hess > > John, The IC you are talking about is an 128K CMOS EEPROM. If you have a > look at any EEPROM manufactures data books you will find that they are > 'garden variety' chips. > > Regards Alex I had a peek into one with a microscope, and it was etched "TI" Texas Instuments, 27C128, which is a UV type EPROM not an EEPROM. However, if you are thinking of hacking the code, or modifying it, the information you require is available from the diy_efi site, through one or another of the regulars. Hope it helps. Terry ------------------------------ From: James Weiler Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: fuel rail needed On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, Ed wrote: > Isn't the MSD fuel rail tubular, rather than the usual rectangular rail > found on most EFI applications? > > -Ed ya it's different allright. Anybody got any experience with this kind of rail? Pro's/con's anybody? jw ------------------------------ From: Mark Romans Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 12:27:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Jaguars steve ravet wrote: > > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:23:31 -0700 (PDT) > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > From: Jennifer Rose > > Subject: Jaguars > > Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > > Hi Thomas > > > > Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He > > install > > tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb > > page is http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated > > with him - just like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 > > into s-10s. > > > > Vance > > > > PS: bought three of the electronic speedo - any one have good source > > > for sending unit? > > > > the WWW page is www.jagsthatrun.com > > I also recommend his books, I have the S-10 one and the general TPI > one. Couldn't have done my S-10 swap without it. > > --steve Hi All; I bought JTR's book and it is good. It gives you a lot of info that would cost a lot of $ to learn the hard way. I also have done two Jag XJ sed engine conversions. I used kits from John's Cars in TX. His kits are the best. Months ago I saw a thread on this list that said his kits are too expensive. BS. If you pay yourself $3.00/Hr you will come out ahead by buying his kit. John's Cars can be reached at 1-800-866-5247. I know I've built two. You can learn the expensive way if you want. My 2 cents worth. Mark. ------------------------------ From: Joe Boucher Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 14:30:07 -0500 Subject: RE: Big overlap cams and EFI `From: James Boughton `Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:06:34 -0400 `Subject: RE: Big overlap cams and EFI `[ snip] ` There are also any number of diagnostic routines that may be effected = `by the change in idle MAP. Did the PROM burner guy give you any more of = `a hint as to what the problem is that arises from longer cams? `Jim Boughton `boughton@xxx.net `Owner - Boughton Engine Systems Technology (B.E.S.T.) Thanks for the input. This digital info is what I'm lacking in. As if I could do something with it at this time. No, the guy at Turbo City wasn't that helpful with that kind of info. Being a mechanical type and trying to retain as much unaltered electronic equipment as possible, I was thinking along the lines of trying to dampen the vacuum signal mechanically. A resevoir or orifice or both, but thought this would also slow down the signal during off idle situations. On a nonemisson application, why couldn't the idle fuel flow be set at a specific injector dwell dependent on just the engine temp and maybe also the intake air temp, if available? Joe Boucher '70 Camaro '81 TBI Suburban ------------------------------ From: John Haag Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:47:16 -0600 (MDT) Subject: TPI and Jags That Run I'm new to the list and a ROOKIE with a lot to learn about EFI but wanted to comment about the actual conversion of a car to a TPI engine (not the EFI part of the conversion). After a lot of research and large amounts of hindsight, I'd recommend John's Cars as well. I have an 89 Firebird TPI engine in a '79 Datsun 280ZX. My conversion is working out well but it would have been a lot easier/quicker (I think) if I dealt with John's. The Jags That Run book is great but it didn't cover the later model Datsun 280 ZX in much detail. A lot of the info was relevant but John's seems to have the right parts already engineered and available for purchase. And please---this is no knock on the Jags book! I wouldn't recommend a conversion without it. Virtually everyone who has done a Datsun conversion would strongly agree about the value of the book. Just my opinion John Haag Denver, CO ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:16:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Jaguars Where are those speedometers located. I must have a coupple. GMD At 08:23 PM 6/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Thomas > > Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He install >tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb page is >http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated with him - just >like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 into s-10s. > >Vance > >PS: bought three of the electronic speedo - any one have good source for >sending unit? > > > George M. Dailey gmd@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Jennifer Rose Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE :JTR Hi all Thanks for correct url for JTR :). Couldn't remember right url. Aside from napa, GM connectors are available from AVECO in larger quanities. Peeked in catalog from are fastener salesgal. Just need to find out how to get a hold of them direct. Thanks Vance ------------------------------ From: "Stuart Baly" Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:04:23 +0000 Subject: Fuel line, fittings I've just got myself the injection hardware off an import L18 Nissan engine, with a view to fitting it to my Datsun 1600. At the moment, I'm getting the parts together for the fuel supply. My problem is that the supply and return lines to the fuel rail were cut, so they haven't got those nice little flared collars near the ends to clamp the fuel hose over. Is there a special tool that can form these collars, perhaps a brake line flaring tool, or is there another way? Also, in a similar vein, intake pipework on a turbo engine is under pressure. When making this pipework from stainless tube, how are the ends formed to give the connecting hoses a secure grip? =========================================== Stuart Baly (s.baly@xxx.au) Technical Officer Cape Grim Baseline Air Pollution Station Cape Grim, Tasmania, Australia =========================================== ------------------------------ From: prusch@xxx.com Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 20:07:36 -0700 Subject: Re: Jaguars Jennifer Rose wrote: > > Hi Thomas > > Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He install tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb page is http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated with him - just like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 into s-10s. > > Vance > >I purchased the Z car V-98 conversion from him and did the conversion. His books are well written and informative. My V-8 swap can be seen at.... WWW.DATSUNS.COM Look under. . . "CARS" "Pauls Modified 280 Z" Paul Ruschman 75 280 ZR1 ------------------------------ From: prusch@xxx.com Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 20:07:36 -0700 Subject: Re: Jaguars Jennifer Rose wrote: > > Hi Thomas > > Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He install tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb page is http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated with him - just like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 into s-10s. > > Vance > >I purchased the Z car V-98 conversion from him and did the conversion. His books are well written and informative. My V-8 swap can be seen at.... WWW.DATSUNS.COM Look under. . . "CARS" "Pauls Modified 280 Z" Paul Ruschman 75 280 ZR1 ------------------------------ From: prusch@xxx.com Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 20:07:36 -0700 Subject: Re: Jaguars Jennifer Rose wrote: > > Hi Thomas > > Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He install tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb page is http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated with him - just like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 into s-10s. > > Vance > >I purchased the Z car V-98 conversion from him and did the conversion. His books are well written and informative. My V-8 swap can be seen at.... WWW.DATSUNS.COM Look under. . . "CARS" "Pauls Modified 280 Z" Paul Ruschman 75 280 ZR1 ------------------------------ From: john spears Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:51:56 -0400 Subject: RE: TPI on a 6cyl It's a better idea to try to match cylinder displacement to the TPI system, then an overall system horsepower rating. I think with the stock calibrations, it's more like injector size vs. cylinder displacement as opposed to hp rating. The number of cylinders the TPI ECM is controlling is selectable in the PROM, so this should not be a problem. If the engine uses a variable reluctance 6X distributor, then using an HEI / EST ignition module, makes the interface between your engine and the TPI ECM pretty straightforward. Minor differences in individual cylinder sizing can be handled with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Depending on your manifold design, the fueling won't be "perfect", but you can get fairly close. The TPI manifold is incredibly efficient between 2000 and 3500 rpm, so this is reflected in the fueling characteristics of the stock calibration. Just a few thoughts on the subject. John Spears Speartech Fuel Injection Systems ------------------------------ From: eric schumacher Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 21:59:43 -0700 Subject: Re: Fuel line, fittings Some thing to think about. I do a lot of this kind of stuff regard mixing and matching fittings. Asystem I have worked out over the years is to cut two fittings in half and silver solder the two halves you want back tohether again. How to bake them beautiful when you are don is a seperate issue. Pain em plait em etc. The end result is typically very good. If nickle plated they are very high class. In the case of your fuel lines I would get the fuel line ends I wanted and splice them to the lines in the car using a sleve over the joint. Silver solder the joint. Aneat way to finish the job is to put heat shrink tube over the splice area. Fast easy and reliable. Silver solder con be done with a Bernz torch. For 20 bucks you can buy a lifetime supply of flux and silver solder. At 01:04 PM 7/2/97 +0000, you wrote: >I've just got myself the injection hardware off an import L18 Nissan >engine, with a view to fitting it to my Datsun 1600. At the moment, >I'm getting the parts together for the fuel supply. My problem is ------------------------------ From: peter paul fenske Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Speedo Hi Guys Electronic speedos are in 88 up GMC trucks, and 88 up JCARs.. To drive em you need the mag four pole sender on the tranny and the buffer amp or 30 pole reluctor sendor and a DRAC. The buffer can be found in Fbodys, the drac in trucks.. GL all :peter At 08:16 PM 7/1/97 -0500, you wrote: >Where are those speedometers located. I must have a coupple. >GMD > >At 08:23 PM 6/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi Thomas >> >> Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He install >>tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb page is >>http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated with him - just >>like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 into s-10s. >> >>Vance >> >>PS: bought three of the electronic speedo - any one have good source for >>sending unit? >> >> >> >George M. Dailey >gmd@xxx.com > > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V2 #223 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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