DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, 5 July 1997 Volume 02 : Number 226 In this issue: sourcing SSI 67f687 Re: IM BACK Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions RE: A question on EFI theory moto guzzi RE: Speedo Source for LH-Jetronic info? Re: Source for LH-Jetronic info? Re: Source for LH-Jetronic info? Re: Source for LH-Jetronic info? Electromotiv TEC systems Re: Electromotiv TEC systems Re: Electromotiv TEC systems Re: Electromotiv TEC systems See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Mauruschat Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:35:05 +0100 Subject: sourcing SSI 67f687 Hi, I'm a new subscriber and returning to my project after some 18 month's lapse. Together with a friend we have produced an ECU, based on 68HC11F1 processor and Silicon Systems 67F687 engine interface chip (absolutely brilliant device!). My immediate problem is where to get the 67F687? Our prototype used a pre-production engineering sample sourced from the then UK distributor Sirretta Microelectronics who no longer have the franchise. Investigations so far here in the UK have been to no avail, none of the SSI representatives seem able to supply. We know there is stock at the factory, we have spoken to them; does anyone know of a source (one or two only required at the moment) at a sensible price? Richard and Colin richm@xxx.uk ------------------------------ From: Alex Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 18:08:45 +1000 Subject: Re: IM BACK Hi Justin Too bad about your 'tragic' loss. Now, about this info ... "THE PINOUTS FOR THE AUSTRALIAN CARS THAT RUN THE DELCO 808 P4", could you send that to me as well please? Thanks and best regards Alex > > jalbury@xxx.au ------------------------------ From: Neil Poersch/MTSCom/MTS Date: 4 Jul 97 8:58:09 Subject: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions Hello everyone, I stumbled across your web page while surfing the net for info on oxygen sensors, was impressed by the good info and thought that I might learn more by joining your mailing list. I am the proud owner of a somewhat obscure brand of Italian-made motorcycle, a Moto Guzzi. I am constantly modifying it to improve performance. This past winter I bored out the carburetors from a 30 mm to 36 mm throat. This of course meant that I had to revise all the jetting in the carbs to accomodate the increased air flow. I did this using the traditional method of observing spark plug color. This of course takes a lot of time so I thought a better way might be to monitor the output voltage of an oxygen sensor. I am aware of the unit which K&N sells but I thought it was very over-priced for what you get. I purchased a universal replacement O2 sensor (made by or at least packaged and distributed by KEM Automotive Products), machined a fitting and TIG welded it onto the crossover pipe on my exhaust. I find that under normal running conditions I typically read about 0.9 to 1.0 volts from the sensor. From what I read about O2 sensors this should indicate a very rich mixture however the engine seems to run quite well and the plugs show a light tan colour. I believe the sensor does respond to lean mixtures because when I deliberately make the idle mixture overly lean I read 0.3 to 0.4 volts. Also when I am running wide open throttle on the highway and snap the throttle shut I momentarily read 0.1 to 0.2 volts until the carb responds to the new conditions. After all this rambling I guess my question is has anyone had any experience in using an O2 sensor for monitoring fuel/air ratios? Also does anyone have any info on what the output voltage curve versus fuel/air ratio should be? Thanks. Look forward to hearing from you. Neil ------------------------------ From: James Boughton Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:18:33 -0400 Subject: RE: A question on EFI theory - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8863.A2FC12E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, I am not familiar with the Whipple supercharger, but I would guess its = performance characteristics to be the same as any positive displacement = type supercharger (correct me if I am wrong). If you look in John = Heywood's book "Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals" on page 258 you = will find a performance map of a roots blower as well as the equation = relating volumetric efficiency to several other parameters. The figure = in the book indicates that, knowing the mass flow rate (i.e. throttle = position), the rpm, and the upstream pressure for the supercharger, you = have a known output pressure from the supercharger. Thus it should be = no problem to calibrate for the system you mentioned. This is simple = theory, and you may find with some experience that things are not quite = so simple, but if you designed your own system any other problems should = not be hard to overcome. Good Luck, Jim Boughton boughton@xxx.net - ---------- From: Mark Eidson[SMTP:Mark_Eidson@xxx.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 8:52 AM To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu Subject: A question on EFI theory Text item:=20 If one were to design a system from scratch and have complete control = over fuel=20 maps, etc., could a system be made that measured the MAP between the = throttle=20 body and supercharger rather than at the intake manifold? Could the = fuel map be designed to compensate for the increased volumetric efficency of the=20 supercharger at a given RPM and MAP? =20 Putting it another way could I use my Holley 4di throttle body on a = Whipple=20 supercharger on a small block chevy with the MAP and vacuum taken off = the=20 throttle body port rather than the intake manifold? Thanks, me. Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Reply-To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Precedence: bulk Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=3DUS-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Subject: TPI and Jags That Run To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu X-Sender: jhaag@xxx.edu From: John Haag Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:47:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by odin.cair.du.edu; id AA27138; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:47:16 = - -0600 Received: from odin.cair.du.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP = (940816.S GI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA25526; Tue, 1 Jul = 1997 17:47 :20 -0400 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA25531; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:47:24 GMT Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by thalia.fm.intel.com = (8.8.4/10.0i); Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:45:29 GMT Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com = [132.233.247.11]) by chm ail.ch.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA13048 for = ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: owner-diy_efi-outgoing@xxx.edu - ------ 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My girlfriends brother has had 2. The 2nd was a le mans replica. He thinks they're great. The first thing he does is put a very loud exhaust on! This apparently makes up for the lack of performance in relation to a jap bike. Kerrie. ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 16:51:30 -0400 Subject: RE: Speedo What I'm going to do is put anti-lock brake sprocket/sensors on the front wheels, and derive a signal from there. Found out that the 1995 S-10 4WD blazer has those, and still fit the 1986 S-10 FWD spindles. Almost too easy :) On Thursday, July 03, 1997 7:33 PM, George M. Dailey [SMTP:gmd@xxx.com] wrote: > Thanks Vance. BTW, have you thought about securing small magnets to the > drive shaft and using a distributer pickup coil? ------------------------------ From: Michael McBroom Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 14:24:21 -0700 Subject: Source for LH-Jetronic info? Hi folks, I'm a new subscriber to the list, and am looking for the "definitive source" for information on Bosch's LH-Jetronic efi system. I've visited the diy_efi website, searched the archives, and have secured the names of a few titles. I'm wondering, however, for those of you who may be familiar with them, how they compare with Probst's _Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management_ (Bentley, 1991)? Probst's book is well-written and easy to understand, but does not go quite to the level of detail I was hoping for. I suspect, however, that any further level of detail which I may seek must be at the application-specific level. In my case, it's for both an '87 Volvo 740 turbo and an '88 Volvo 760 turbo. I'm interested in finding out how LH-Jetronic is employed on other platforms, too, though, such as the Porsche 928s, Saabs, and a couple of the big Bimmers. The '740 turbo is a project car currently undergoing enhancements. I've been told that the stock efi system, with the addition of a rising rate pressure regulator, will provide sufficient fuel delivery for horsepower applications up to 280. Beyond that, supplementary components would need to be employed, such as a fifth injector. If I were to find this car running shy on fuel (which I doubt will happen, but who can say for sure?), I would prefer not to go the 5th injector route, and would rather size the system up a notch or two, if possible. In order to do this, though, I'll have to gain a better understanding regarding some of the particulars of LH-Jet, such as MAF sensor flow parameters and limits, recalibration possibilities, possible reprograming of the PROM, etc. Any advice would be appreciated. - -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Wilkrod@xxx.com Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 19:21:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Source for LH-Jetronic info? Howdy The Bosch Blue book of which you speek is most likely the most specific in detail that you will see. Bosch is quite anal on releasing any specific details on any of the products that they make. Good luck on finding any more info. than that supplied in the Blue book. Regards Jeff 86 Lotus Esprit ------------------------------ From: Jim Lill Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 01:30:39 +0100 (utc) Subject: Re: Source for LH-Jetronic info? I lack a copy to get the ISBN # from but Bosch themselves published a 40 or so page softbound book on it. I'll try to get the # when I return from vacation in a week. - -Jim Lill http://www.vectorbd.com/users/jpl ------------------------------ From: Michael McBroom Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 17:44:49 -0700 Subject: Re: Source for LH-Jetronic info? Wilkrod@xxx.com wrote: > The Bosch Blue book of which you speek is most likely the most specific in > detail that you will see. Bosch is quite anal on releasing any specific > details on any of the products that they make. Good luck on finding any more > info. than that supplied in the Blue book. How unfortunate. What, are there no turncoats, no defectors who have, or are willing to, reveal Bosch arcana to the rest of the world? > Regards > Jeff > 86 Lotus Esprit =Love= your car, btw. - -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Michael McBroom Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 19:50:02 -0700 Subject: Electromotiv TEC systems Anybody here have any experience with the Electromotive TEC-I or TEC-II? According to their ads and their website (http://www.electromotive-inc.com) the TEC-II especially sounds like the cat's meow. If it did everything it says, I could eliminate three different but interdependent systems in my car. - -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: pantera@xxx.com (David Doddek) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 01:31:40 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Electromotiv TEC systems >Anybody here have any experience with the Electromotive TEC-I or >TEC-II? According to their ads and their website >(http://www.electromotive-inc.com) the TEC-II especially sounds like the >cat's meow. If it did everything it says, I could eliminate three >different but interdependent systems in my car. > >-- >Best, > >Michael McBroom > I have a TEC-II and like it. But you will find most people say it is a piece of crap. That is probably because it is a bit difficult to get use to the way it programs and they cannot get the calibration correct. I have made mine work and it works great. David Doddek pantera@xxx.com/~pantera 217-422-3722 69 EFI Fairlane, 89 T-bird SC, 74 Twin turbo NOS EFI Pantera #6825 If you are going to go fast, go real fast. ------------------------------ From: Fred Miranda Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 02:22:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Electromotiv TEC systems No David, TEC2s themselves aren't crap, the company is. I'll agree, many people don't understand the tuning concept. I don't understand them. Fred At 01:31 AM 7/5/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Anybody here have any experience with the Electromotive TEC-I or >>TEC-II? According to their ads and their website >>(http://www.electromotive-inc.com) the TEC-II especially sounds like the >>cat's meow. If it did everything it says, I could eliminate three >>different but interdependent systems in my car. >> >>-- >>Best, >> >>Michael McBroom >> >I have a TEC-II and like it. But you will find most people say it is a >piece of crap. That is probably because it is a bit difficult to get use to >the way it programs and they cannot get the calibration correct. I have >made mine work and it works great. > >David Doddek pantera@xxx.com/~pantera 217-422-3722 >69 EFI Fairlane, 89 T-bird SC, 74 Twin turbo NOS EFI Pantera #6825 >If you are going to go fast, go real fast. > > > ------------------------------ From: Michael McBroom Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 00:18:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Electromotiv TEC systems Fred Miranda wrote: > > No David, TEC2s themselves aren't crap, the company is. > > I'll agree, many people don't understand the tuning concept. > I don't understand them. Could you be more specific? - -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V2 #226 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".