DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 16 July 1997 Volume 02 : Number 239 In this issue: Re: MAF sensors dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich condition Re: dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich condi Re: Mileage Re: le jetronic fault codes? Re: 700R4 ratios Re: 700R4 ratios Re: 700R4 ratios Re: le jetronic fault codes? Re: dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich condition fuel inj parts from MSD RE: 700R4 ratios Re: 700R4 ratios Re: dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich co Re: 700R4 ratios Toothed wheels Leak down testing (not strictly EFI related) Re: 700R4 ratios RE: 700R4 ratios g.Analyst's g.Link cable spec? Map sensor and boost solenoid Re: 700R4 ratios Re: dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich condition RE: 700R4 ratios Re: Map sensor and boost solenoid Re: Map sensor and boost solenoid Re: Fiat woes Re: Map sensor and boost solenoid Re: fuel inj parts from MSD fuel inj parts from MSD Re: Leak down testing (not strictly EFI related) RE: Leak down testing (not strictly EFI related) Fuel pressure guage isolator Re: fuel inj parts from MSD Re: Fuel pressure guage isolator Re: Leak down testing (not strictly EFI related) Re: Fuel pressure guage isolator See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bishop@xxx.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:51:19 -0500 Subject: Re: MAF sensors Do you still have any of the MAF sensors for sale. I am interested in two. Please email me back if these are avaliable. Thanks, ThomB I'm cleaning out my garage and have (3) MAF sensors for sale. These are GM >pieces for V-8 motors (part #25007899) and all are new (never in service). >Make offer > > > Bill ------------------------------ From: Jeff Deifik Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:35:37 -0700 Subject: dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich condition I have a 1987 shelby csx (dodge 2.2 intercooled turbo). I have the shelby stage II computer, and a rebuilt engine with mostly turbo II parts inside, with a super-60 cam, turbo, 20% bigger than stock injectors, and a super-60-like head. About 10k miles on engine. While getting a smog check everything was ok at idle, but at 2000 rpm there was an intermittent rich condition. After some digging around, some blow-by was found. A leak-down test was performed, as well as a compression check. The leakdown was 5% in all cylinders, except #3 was 14-15 percent. The compression test was 135, 125, 125, 150 dry, and 145, 150, 150, 155 wet. There was also some valvetrain noise. When the valve cover was removed, there was visible wear on some of the cam lobes. I have heard that no super-60 cam seems to survive beyond 10k miles, due to the aggressive profile, or a bad heat treatment. The engine was torn down, and the #3 cylinder wall was found to be worn smooth, while all the other walls looked fine. I think that the intermittent rich condition may have been confined to the #3 cylinder, which may have washed the oil from the cylinder wall, causing the wear, and the bad leakdown. I was wondering what might cause this intermittent rich condition. The injectors had less than 20k miles on them. The o2 sensor had less than 20k miles on it. I run unleaded gas. The engine showed no fault codes. I had a new cap & rotor and ignition wires & sparkplugs. I am not sure which cam lobes were getting flattened. Could a flattened cam lobe cause the intermittent rich condition? It looked like the top of the lobes had been flattened, which I would guess would be bad for high rpm use, but should be pretty harmless otherwise. I don't recall which lobes were flattened, but roughly 4 of the lobes were showing signs of wear. I can find out. I will be getting 13% bigger than stock injectors, which I have heard are fine for 15 lbs of boost, and which should improve the part throttle fuel injection metering. I will get a milder cam, and a high volumn oil pump. I wish to figure out what was causing the intermittent rich condition, so I don't have to rebuild the motor again at 10k miles. I will probably also build a o2 led monitor to check for the rich condition. Jeff turbo Deifik jdeifik@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: "Evert Rosseel" Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:58:39 +1 Subject: Re: dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich condi > I think that the intermittent rich condition may have been confined to the > #3 cylinder, which may have washed the oil from the cylinder wall, causing > the wear, and the bad leakdown. > > I am not sure which cam lobes were getting flattened. > Could a flattened cam lobe cause the intermittent rich condition? > It looked like the top of the lobes had been flattened, which I would guess > would be bad for high rpm use, but should be pretty harmless otherwise. > I don't recall which lobes were flattened, but roughly 4 of the lobes > were showing signs of wear. I can find out. If one of the inlet cams has a flattened profile, the corresponding cylinder will run rich (less air admitted into this cylinder) and the others will run lean (overal stoichiometric condition for all cylinders together). If excessive the engine will run on 3 cylinders (continuous misfire on one cylinder). I have personally seen an engine with a cam lobe completely gone, which did still run on 3 of the 4 cylinders. The intermittent effect may be caused by the lambda control system. Evert **************************************************************** * Dr. ir. Evert Rosseel * * Laboratory for Machines * * Department of Mechanical and Thermal Engineering * * University Gent * * Sint-Pietersnieuwstraat 41, 9000 Gent, Belgium * * Tel : ++32 9 264.33.06 * * Fax : ++32 9 264.35.86 * * Email : Evert.Rosseel@xxx.be * * WWW : http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~erosseel/motoren.htm * **************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 09:36:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Mileage > Ya describing are wonderful new fuel out here in CA. Lost about 10% in >mileage - 11 mpg to 10 mpg in my pu While all of you are complaining about gas mileage, feel free to enjoy the HIGH mileage you are all getting. 1989 Chevy 454 powered Hummer. 8 MPG highway. 5-6 in the woods. Ugh. Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car - --- ------------------------------ From: Rich Mauruschat Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:50:07 +0100 Subject: Re: le jetronic fault codes? At 14:46 13/07/97 +0300, you wrote: >Hi Richard, > >i know the motronic ml4.1 system, as fitted to (in my case) the 2L gsi opel >kadett ( 8v) >i think its called a vauxhall astra ? in the uk ? ,anyway i know this >system returns the >error codes via the engine warning light on the dashboard if certain pins >in the diagnostic >plug are shorted out.. > >so my other car is a opel monza 1.6L gsi ( again i think its called a >belmont in uk?) >the efi seems to be very similar to the L jetronic sytem ? ,but it does >seem to have >a micro proccesor since it returns error codes in the same way as the ml4.1 >system >its been my understanding that this system on the 1.6l is the le or maybe >l3 jetronic, >have i maybe got the wrong name acociated with this aplication? >any more info? > >thanx a lot , >nico > > Nico, Sorry! I may have misled you over the 1.6L sytem; early 1.6 GSi Corsa/GTE Nova (uk) ie. 1988-1991 approx. used L3 Jetronic. L3 is easy to recognise - ECU is mounted integrally with the airflow meter and has a 15 way 2-row connector. It is the later 1.6 engines which use Multec. Hope this is clearer Richard ------------------------------ From: furgason@xxx.ca (Daniel Furgason) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:21:08 -0600 Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios Just for the record I have an 89 suburban 5.7 tbi with a 3:73 rear. The only time I've ever done worse than 21 mpg highway (Imperial gallon) is one time when I closed the plug gap down to around .035". If I run the plugs around .100"-.125" I get significantly better milege. I have been as high as 24 mpg. Around town I generally get 14 -15 mpg. Timing doesn't seem to be too critical for mileage, however, I usually run about 4 deg BTC static just for the response. Dan Furgason ------------------------------ From: Dan Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:18:35 -0400 Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios 21MPG in a 5,700lb suburban?! I have a Tahoe and a Suburban 5.7 tbi and see 15MPG highway with the Tahoe! 11 MPG is typical around town and that's driving very nicely. Not even the factory thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway. Dan L > Just for the record I have an 89 suburban 5.7 tbi with a 3:73 rear. The > only time I've ever done worse than 21 mpg highway (Imperial gallon) is > one time when I closed the plug gap down to around .035". If I run the > plugs around .100"-.125" I get significantly better milege. I have been > as high as 24 mpg. Around town I generally get 14 -15 mpg. Timing > doesn't seem to be too critical for mileage, however, I usually run > about 4 deg BTC static just for the response. > > Dan Furgason ------------------------------ From: Jody Shapiro Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios On Tue, 15 Jul 1997, Dan wrote: > 21MPG in a 5,700lb suburban?! I have a Tahoe and a Suburban > 5.7 tbi and see 15MPG highway with the Tahoe! 11 MPG is typical > around town and that's driving very nicely. Not even the factory > thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway. > > Dan L > > > Just for the record I have an 89 suburban 5.7 tbi with a 3:73 rear. The > > only time I've ever done worse than 21 mpg highway (Imperial gallon) is *************** imperial gallon... someone else can do the imperial gal -> US gal conversion. I already have a head-ache. :) - -Jody - -- 97 Blue Vortech Z28 http://www.bit-net.com/~jshapiro/z28/ ------------------------------ From: "nico badenhorst" Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:23:44 +0300 Subject: Re: le jetronic fault codes? - ---------- > From: Rich Mauruschat > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: le jetronic fault codes? > Date: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 5:50 PM > > At 14:46 13/07/97 +0300, you wrote: > >Hi Richard, > > > >i know the motronic ml4.1 system, as fitted to (in my case) the 2L gsi opel > >kadett ( 8v) > >i think its called a vauxhall astra ? in the uk ? ,anyway i know this > >system returns the > >error codes via the engine warning light on the dashboard if certain pins > >in the diagnostic > >plug are shorted out.. > > > >so my other car is a opel monza 1.6L gsi ( again i think its called a > >belmont in uk?) > >the efi seems to be very similar to the L jetronic sytem ? ,but it does > >seem to have > >a micro proccesor since it returns error codes in the same way as the ml4.1 > >system > >its been my understanding that this system on the 1.6l is the le or maybe > >l3 jetronic, > >have i maybe got the wrong name acociated with this aplication? > >any more info? > > > >thanx a lot , > >nico > > > > > Nico, > Sorry! I may have misled you over the 1.6L sytem; early 1.6 GSi Corsa/GTE > Nova (uk) ie. 1988-1991 approx. used L3 Jetronic. L3 is easy to recognise - - > ECU is mounted integrally with the airflow meter and has a 15 way 2-row > connector. It is the later 1.6 engines which use Multec. > Hope this is clearer > Richard hi richard , that's the one :) , my model is in fact a 90 model , and the ecu is integrated in the airflow meter. so thanxs for clearing that up , now , any idea where i can find a description of the error codes? do you think the codes in question might be more or less the same as the motronic ml4.1? getting there , nico ------------------------------ From: James Weiler Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich condition So this is just my guess. I assume that your Dodge is a speed density system and not a hot wire (mass air flow meter) system. In which case the computer is programed to deliver a certain amount of fuel at a certain RPM/throttle position/load. When a lobe is flattened you're not taking in as much air as you should be but the computer is oblivious to this fact since it does not physically measure the amount of incoming air it infers it from the programed look up tables. Since there is less air but a predetermined amount of fuel going in you wind up with a rich situation. I think it makes perfect sense. Worn engine means less air entering but the same amount of fuel thus the richness. (just to beat the point into the ground) Then again what do I know. What do other people think? cheers jw ------------------------------ From: "Robert J. Korn" Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: fuel inj parts from MSD I just received a flyer from MSD on fuel management products. It has some nice stuff, EGO, TEMP, Pumps, regulators, and some tech notes including drawings of the injector and pocket hole dimensions. The most useful tool I saw was a modified drill bit that could cut the pocket hole for an injector with the correct shape and dimensions in one shot. I saw some other people were interested in FI for single and twin cyl motorcycle engines. MSD has a set of adapters that let you mount a standard fuel injector in a 3/4 threaded hole and feed it with a rubber hose. Its essentially a cap with a hose barb and a threaded pocket that hook togeather with a wire spring. They also sell EGO bungs, injector & EGO connectors and DIY Stainless steel fuel rail parts. the injector pocket drawing is very detailed. Its worth a look I do have access to a scanner if anyone wants to see the drawings but for a freebie catalog its a must have......... ------------------------------ From: John Hess Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:04:58 -0500 Subject: RE: 700R4 ratios >---------- >From: Jody Shapiro[SMTP:jshapiro@xxx.com] >Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 1:13 PM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios > >On Tue, 15 Jul 1997, Dan wrote: > >> 21MPG in a 5,700lb suburban?! I have a Tahoe and a Suburban >> 5.7 tbi and see 15MPG highway with the Tahoe! 11 MPG is typical >> around town and that's driving very nicely. Not even the factory >> thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway. >> >> Dan L >> >> > Just for the record I have an 89 suburban 5.7 tbi with a 3:73 rear. The >> > only time I've ever done worse than 21 mpg highway (Imperial gallon) is > *************** > >imperial gallon... > >someone else can do the imperial gal -> US gal conversion. I already have >a head-ache. :) > >-Jody > >-- >97 Blue Vortech Z28 >http://www.bit-net.com/~jshapiro/z28/ > The figures given are closer to kilometers per imperial gallon than miles per gallon (of any kind). ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:09:09 -0400 Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios >21MPG in a 5,700lb suburban?! I have a Tahoe and a Suburban >5.7 tbi and see 15MPG highway with the Tahoe! 11 MPG is typical >around town and that's driving very nicely. Not even the factory >thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway. Maybe that gent is carrying around a full cargo of helium balloons, thus making his vehicle lighter :) It depends on driving style, load, hills, etc. I get 29.5 MPG regularly with my '93 Continental, as long as I don't speed over 65 too much, and don't stomp it too hard. Locally, I hit 'bout 12-13 MPG. Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car - --- ------------------------------ From: jb24@xxx.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:47:36 -0400 Subject: Re: dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich co Dodge Turbo IIs have adaptive fueling. EGO modifies speed/density lookup table based on exhaust mixture. I would lean toward the ecu leaning out the mixture to compensate for one rich cylinder, as was said earlier. John Bucknell jb24@xxx.com 85 GLH Turbo (still goes like heck) ------------------------------ From: cloud@xxx.edu (Tom Cloud) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:11:41 -0500 Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios >>21MPG in a 5,700lb suburban?! I have a Tahoe and a Suburban >>5.7 tbi and see 15MPG highway with the Tahoe! 11 MPG is typical >>around town and that's driving very nicely. Not even the factory >>thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway. > >Maybe that gent is carrying around a full cargo of helium balloons, thus >making his vehicle lighter :) > >It depends on driving style, load, hills, etc. I get 29.5 MPG regularly >with my '93 Continental, as long as I don't speed over 65 too much, and >don't stomp it too hard. Locally, I hit 'bout 12-13 MPG. yeah, but a '93 Continental doesn't weigh 5600 pounds dry, like my '95 'burban with TBI and it probably doesn't have a 350 CID engine. I'm running 16" tires and 3.73 rear end. It's 4WD also. I record every drop of petrol that goes into it and after 40,000 miles, many on good highway runs, I'd love to know how to get 15 mpg Tom Cloud ------------------------------ From: "Tony Bryant" Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:04:08 +1200 Subject: Toothed wheels What was the verdict with the TDC mark on toothed wheels? Which was the best (with an LM1815?) Missing tooth, Extra tooth, 2 Missing teeth, Shifted tooth, Extra sensor on a different mark? $$$ MAKE CAR FAST $$$ bryantt@xxx.nz ------------------------------ From: "Tony Bryant" Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:01:11 +1200 Subject: Leak down testing (not strictly EFI related) R.e. Leak down testing. What units is leakdown typically measured in? What are some example good and bad numbers? And what pressure does the cylinder get pressured to? Thanks. $$$ MAKE CAR FAST $$$ bryantt@xxx.nz ------------------------------ From: John Napoli Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios On Tue, 15 Jul 1997, Tom Cloud wrote: > > yeah, but a '93 Continental doesn't weigh 5600 pounds dry, > like my '95 'burban with TBI and it probably doesn't have > a 350 CID engine. I'm running 16" tires and 3.73 rear end. > It's 4WD also. I record every drop of petrol that goes into > it and after 40,000 miles, many on good highway runs, I'd > love to know how to get 15 mpg > My 88 Chevy fullsize p/u has the same gears and really tall tires. I get 17 or better on the highway -- have sen 22 - and 12 to 15 around town. John ------------------------------ From: John Hess Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:39:10 -0500 Subject: RE: 700R4 ratios Let's face it. A Continental is NOT a billboard! >---------- >From: Frederic Breitwieser[SMTP:frederic.breitwieser@xxx.com] >Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 2:09 PM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios > >>21MPG in a 5,700lb suburban?! I have a Tahoe and a Suburban >>5.7 tbi and see 15MPG highway with the Tahoe! 11 MPG is typical >>around town and that's driving very nicely. Not even the factory >>thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway. > >Maybe that gent is carrying around a full cargo of helium balloons, thus >making his vehicle lighter :) > >It depends on driving style, load, hills, etc. I get 29.5 MPG regularly >with my '93 Continental, as long as I don't speed over 65 too much, and >don't stomp it too hard. Locally, I hit 'bout 12-13 MPG. > > >Frederic Breitwieser >Homebrew Automotive Mailing List >Bridgeport, CT 06606 >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html >1989 AG Hummer 4-Door >1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental >2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car > > > > > >--- > ------------------------------ From: "Frank/G.speed" Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: g.Analyst's g.Link cable spec? I finally got a used g.Analyst. Couple months ago I posted: "This is slightly off topic (sorry), but does anyone know if G-A's peripherals connector is indeed non standard serial port?! This is from their literature: "The g.Link is an accessory for the g.Analyst that plugs into the peripherals connector on the transducer. The g.Link converts the g.Analyst's non-standard, internal signal levels, using miniature electronic circuitry, into industry standard RS-232 voltage levels..." I was hoping somebody has the pinouts so I can get a cable built cheaper than the $100 Valentine Research is asking." I had got a reply but since at that time the unit I looked at were sold so I didn't get the spec. (was it you Fred?) Frank M. Lin | G.speed - Z.Speed Trust HKS DC-Sports Razo/Carmate Soei fmlin@xxx.html 95 del Sol VTEC | Info sheet - "finger fmlin@xxx.info" ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Honda 1/4 mi. registery - http://www.ccnet.com/~fmlin/pbh/fastest ------------------------------ From: Simon Quested Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:39:33 +1200 Subject: Map sensor and boost solenoid Hi All I'm building a boost controller and I'd like to find a cheep source for a map sensor and 3 boost control solenoids. One place I rang said that they could supply me with a motorolla MPX200AP for US$140 this sounds expensive for a semiconductor are they tring to rip me off? Thanks Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@xxx.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:28:22 -0400 Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios >yeah, but a '93 Continental doesn't weigh 5600 pounds dry, >like my '95 'burban with TBI and it probably doesn't have This is true, I'll have to look up the weight, however I believe its in the 4000lb range. Not a lot of plastic :) >a 350 CID engine. I'm running 16" tires and 3.73 rear end. >It's 4WD also. I record every drop of petrol that goes into I do as well... sudden fuel mileage drop is a good indicator that something is wrong or about to be wrong. >it and after 40,000 miles, many on good highway runs, I'd >love to know how to get 15 mpg I had a F-250 crewcab with a 460, with 48"x18" tires, and definately was in the single digits ALL the time. Even when it was flatbedded somewhere :) Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car - --- ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:57:54 -0400 Subject: Re: dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich condition >situation. I think it makes perfect sense. Worn engine means less air >entering but the same amount of fuel thus the richness. (just to beat the >point into the ground) > >Then again what do I know. What do other people think? While I cannot verify or refute your comments, your logic is absolutely reasonable :). Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car - --- ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:45:10 -0400 Subject: RE: 700R4 ratios >Let's face it. A Continental is NOT a billboard! True, but my point was this... its not exactly a 800lb MiniCooper either. 4000lb curb weight before the supercharger, before the fullsize spare tire, before all the crap in the trunk, etc, is nothing to sneeze at either. I'm not fighting... just was trying to make a comparison that obviously didn't work for me at the time Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car - --- ------------------------------ From: Orin Eman Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Map sensor and boost solenoid > I'm building a boost controller and I'd like to find a cheep source > for a map sensor and 3 boost control solenoids. One place I rang said > that they could supply me with a motorolla MPX200AP for US$140 this > sounds expensive for a semiconductor are they tring to rip me off? Ridiculous. Try Allied Electronics (www.allied.avnet.com) MPX200AP is $8.35. I'd go for the MPX4250 which is signal conditioned and temperature compensated on-chip with a 0-4.69V output off a 5.1V supply for $22.26. Unfortunately Allied have a $50 minimum, but that's not usually a problem for me! Orin. ------------------------------ From: Seth Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Map sensor and boost solenoid On Tue, 15 Jul 1997, Orin Eman wrote: > > I'm building a boost controller and I'd like to find a cheep source > > for a map sensor and 3 boost control solenoids. One place I rang said > > that they could supply me with a motorolla MPX200AP for US$140 this > > sounds expensive for a semiconductor are they tring to rip me off? > > Ridiculous. Try Allied Electronics (www.allied.avnet.com) MPX200AP is > $8.35. I'd go for the MPX4250 which is signal conditioned and > temperature compensated on-chip with a 0-4.69V output off a 5.1V > supply for $22.26. > > Unfortunately Allied have a $50 minimum, but that's not usually a problem > for me! > > Orin. > _ I got by with a $25 minimum about 1.5 months ago. If I had thought about it and bought the LM1925 voltage regulator with delayed reset at the same time, I wouldn't have had to padd the order for the MXP 4250 out to $25... Going to go check stuff out on the scope on friday.. injectors driver board and maybe the HC11 and code. Seth ------------------------------ From: JColl62271@xxx.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:25:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Fiat woes Used to own a Spyder 2000 which would run great and then suddenly die out. It would coast for a while as if it had just bearly enough power to keep the engine ticking over, then it would surge back to life. Each time everything you mentioned would check out. After weeks of hair pulling and expensive Eytalian car mechanics I found the source of my problem to be a crappy fuel pump relay which would run the pump, but had so much resistance though the points that the pump would barely run. I guess at some times it would heat up enough to quit altogether. The old L-jetronic didn't diagnose itself, so it took awhile to find. Repalaced the relay, bosch, can't recall the pn, and the problem went away. Hope yours is as simple. Jack ------------------------------ From: Frank Piccolo Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:36:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Map sensor and boost solenoid For what you are doing yes. You can get a PIC 20MHz controller from Digikey for under $20.00. Should be ample for what your doing. Frank Simon Quested wrote: > Hi All > > I'm building a boost controller and I'd like to find a cheep source > for a map sensor and 3 boost control solenoids. One place I rang said > that they could supply me with a motorolla MPX200AP for US$140 this > sounds expensive for a semiconductor are they tring to rip me off? > > Thanks > > Simon > > +++++ > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@xxx.nz) > Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support > Centre for Computing and Biometrics > LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND > Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > ++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: george lee Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 02:40:08 +0000 Subject: Re: fuel inj parts from MSD At 07:37 PM 7/15/97 +0000, you wrote: >I just received a flyer from MSD on fuel management products. >It has some nice stuff, EGO, TEMP, Pumps, regulators, and some tech >notes including drawings of the injector and pocket hole dimensions. > >The most useful tool I saw was a modified drill bit that could cut the >pocket hole for an injector with the correct shape and dimensions in >one shot. > >I saw some other people were interested in FI for single and twin cyl >motorcycle engines. MSD has a set of adapters that let you mount a >standard fuel injector in a 3/4 threaded hole and feed it with a rubber >hose. Its essentially a cap with a hose barb and a threaded pocket >that hook togeather with a wire spring. > >They also sell EGO bungs, injector & EGO connectors and DIY Stainless >steel fuel rail parts. > >the injector pocket drawing is very detailed. Its worth a look > >I do have access to a scanner if anyone wants to see the drawings >but for a freebie catalog its a must have......... >every thing but msd web page info ? ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:43:00 -0500 Subject: fuel inj parts from MSD - -> The most useful tool I saw was a modified drill bit that could cut - -> the pocket hole for an injector with the correct shape and dimensions - -> in one shot. Yes. They want $166 for that drill bit. When I converted a carb manifold a few months ago I was astonished to find that a) a straight hole will work just fine b) OEM/aftermarket hole sizes wander all over the place A straight piece of tubing somewhere around 9/16 ID will do the job. Various places want $5 to $8 for pre-made bungs you can weld directly to the manifold, with the stepped hole already drilled. ------------------------------ From: Johnny Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:23:55 -0700 Subject: Re: Leak down testing (not strictly EFI related) Tony Bryant wrote: > > R.e. Leak down testing. > > What units is leakdown typically measured in? > > What are some example good and bad numbers? > > And what pressure does the cylinder get pressured > to? > Typically, you would use 80psi on the supply side. In aviation, again typically, when the cylinder gets down below 60psi, it won't pass. In racing, it's usually used to find the bad hole and listening where the air is escaping from will tell you pretty much exactly what's bad about it. All it is, is an orfice of known size between the supply side and it's guage, and the cylinder side and it's guage. The more the leakage, the higher the differential from one side to the other. If you run 80psi on the supply side, I would expect at least 70psi on the cylinder side. If you can't get that, then listen for where the air is leaking. If you hear it in the intake manifold, the intake valve is leaking, headers means exhaust valve and so on. Most of the time, I consider valve leakage to be cause for pulling that head and taking care of it, while ring leakage is going to always be there a little bit, and you just have to make the determination of what's acceptable to you. It is a very good device for finding the weak cylinder, and for telling you exactly why it's weak. You can also use it to log trends across all of the cylinders. If you do a leak down every time you do a tune up or other routine maintenance, and keep a record of it, you can get a pretty good idea of cylinder condition, and it will take a lot of the guess work out of troubleshooting when something goes wrong. - -j- ------------------------------ From: James Boughton Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:29:53 -0400 Subject: RE: Leak down testing (not strictly EFI related) >R.e. Leak down testing. >What units is leakdown typically measured in? In theory leakdown is in percentage leakage. However, typical gauges vary a lot from gauge to gauge so you need to be familiar with the gauge you are using. I have heard that there are some gauges used for leakdown testing of aircraft engines that are much better than the automotive ones, but I have no experience with them. >What are some example good and bad numbers? Race engines: >10% Street engines: >50% (obviously it depends on how much you care.) Most of the time what you are looking for is cylinder to cylinder discrepancies. Whether the engine is cold or hot can also have big effects. Some engines only seal well when fully warm. >And what pressure does the cylinder get pressured >to? The gauge manufacturer usually specifies a line pressure for the cylinder. It is usually less than 100psi. >Thanks. >$$$ MAKE CAR FAST $$$ >bryantt@xxx.nz Jim Boughton boughton@xxx.net begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C@#`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;FL" M@P!0`O()`@!C: K 7!I8Y$'0&QY( > M87,(<.,)@"10;C\@((\+TR:?Y2&821]Q:&4%L"6@))?3)&$+@"!P!)!C"? ! MD)QG922#*Z$>T"!('U T978$D"P;-24E(&=L874KL 0@=@K ):!ANR2 &M @ M`U(MY!^ ;R]5VG,OT'D(8!LU;@G@)C#%+\%B*\!F86T#$ "LQ M")!N*V R5VTN_R L(C\C2C8W/J QX M0,M&6;P1P+J!N)C!B828PS&YU!M $ MD',_* \GO]TA7%(`T$,1.@xxx.==(P36#20`F@"AO8G9I M"&#N\Y$ W!&O%4$E-"\SH%`B#_)9 ;-1&P+<$LH"6 3]$)\/4O`'4E@G<* MP#_?0.\:U/Y!1!%/XQ-0!Y E\A\Q.D/_*\!2QRNP7HA5YD;?(A\:IV\OP$3_ M8B@xxx.!=5\QT!L`)@$%P#/0=25S<_LK,%/@9E/Q+J)50EZF&S7_-X)? MBC0B!4 D86?V)) $$?,[PQDP,' `D%NF8M\:W=]E#V+/&L5F@ !P:U00("\W MG,.&\]Y,TK)!W @0@A@9V@OP#@VVP;@?P1 5[$Q('1\$!' M7PM&$K(,`V[]%3$`@T ``P`0$ $````#`!$0`````$ `!S!@/%:4EY&\`4 ` @xxx.B `````K*0` ` end ------------------------------ From: "Tony Bryant" Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:37:13 +1200 Subject: Fuel pressure guage isolator What I am in need of is a device I can plumb into the fuel rail, and hook a standard oil or air pressure guage to the other side, so that fuel can never get into to cabin, even if the feeder hose is cut. Has anybody made one of these, and if so, how? Alternatively, would your average electric oil pressure sender unit survive the nasties of high octane unleaded? ------------------------------ From: pantera@xxx.com (David Doddek) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:58:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: fuel inj parts from MSD > When I converted a carb manifold a few months ago I was astonished to >find that > >a) a straight hole will work just fine >b) OEM/aftermarket hole sizes wander all over the place > > A straight piece of tubing somewhere around 9/16 ID will do the job. > 14 mm is the actual size. 9/16 is just a bit larger. David Doddek pantera@xxx.com/~pantera 217-422-3722 69 EFI Fairlane, 89 T-bird SC, 74 Twin turbo NOS EFI Pantera #6825 If you are going to go fast, go real fast. ------------------------------ From: Ed or Jose Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:02:40 -0700 Subject: Re: Fuel pressure guage isolator Tony Bryant wrote: > > What I am in need of is a device I can plumb into the > fuel rail, and hook a standard oil or air pressure > guage to the other side, so that fuel can never > get into to cabin, even if the feeder hose is cut. > Auto Meter sells such an isolator. I have last year's catalog somewhere here...I'll post the part # as soon as I find it. I believe it's designed to handle up to 300 psi. - -Ed ------------------------------ From: sam2@xxx.us Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Leak down testing (not strictly EFI related) >Typically, you would use 80psi on the supply side. In aviation, again >typically, when the cylinder gets down below 60psi, it won't pass. In You mean you can't use 60psi? How do you hold the piston at top dead center at 80psi? ------------------------------ From: Fred Miranda Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:25:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Fuel pressure guage isolator I've been using a VDO oil pressure sender for fuel pressure on my GTX for 3-4yrs now. Don't know if high octane unleaded would be any different than 92. Fred At 03:37 PM 7/16/97 +1200, you wrote: >What I am in need of is a device I can plumb into the >fuel rail, and hook a standard oil or air pressure >guage to the other side, so that fuel can never >get into to cabin, even if the feeder hose is cut. > >Has anybody made one of these, and if so, how? > >Alternatively, would your average electric oil pressure >sender unit survive the nasties of high octane unleaded? > > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V2 #239 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".