DIY_EFI Digest Monday, 11 August 1997 Volume 02 : Number 268 In this issue: 80C535 as controller Diesel Efi ! 80535 as controller 80535 as controller Bosch ECU replacement Re: Too good to let go by MAP, more Re: Bosch ECU replacement Adjusting Boos Re: Too good to let go by Re: MAP, more Re: Adjusting Boost (Saab's APC system) Re: Adjusting Boost Re: Adjusting Boost RE: Bosch ECU replacement Adjusting Boost Re: Adjusting Boost (Saab's APC system) Re: Disable VATS fuel filter location Re: Too good to let go by Re: Too good to let go by Re: Too good to let go by Re: Too good to let go by Re: fuel filter location knock spectra Re: Too good to let go by Re: Adjusting Boost Re: Too good to let go by Re: Too good to let go by Re: fuel filter location Not strickly efi........more turbo stuff Re: Adjusting Boost See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dusher@xxx.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:06:50 BST Subject: 80C535 as controller Hi all - -- ------------------------------ From: dusher@xxx.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:01:58 BST Subject: Diesel Efi ! Hi Guys, Thanks for the answer to Chrysler codes etc. Does anyone know anything about the Audi A6 TDI 140 Diesel!, I think its computer controled!. just interested in the system. oh yes one non EFI thing is there any Hams out there my call is G6ZKC for the record. bye ....... - -- ------------------------------ From: dusher@xxx.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:08:03 BST Subject: 80535 as controller Hi all - -- ------------------------------ From: dusher@xxx.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:15:43 BST Subject: 80535 as controller Hi all Is anyone thinking or using the Seimens 80c535 (8051'MCS52 instuction set')?. Would like to hear if anyone is interested in using this chip!. any ideas?..bye - -- ------------------------------ From: don irwin Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:19:16 +0200 Subject: Bosch ECU replacement I need to replace the Bosch Motronic ECU on an Alfa .. the price of a new unit is painful!! Any leads on alternate sources ? thanks Don Irwin - -- Don Irwin E-Mail: don_irwin@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: wstrass@xxx.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 07:13:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Too good to let go by To: XXXXXXXX--XXXXXXXX cc: DIY --INTERNET DIY *** Reply to note of 08/10/97 15:26 From: Wayne Strasser (CED Polymer Development) _______________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: Too good to let go by It is very difficult to make generalizations about charge heat being bad. Let us not forget the following: 1. Heat stimulates interphase mass transfer (both diffusive and convective). Without this, there would be no fuel evaporation or distribution. 2. Heat stimulates both hydrocarbon and oxygen radical species production which are the sole beings responsible for flame surface propogation (both for the uni-dimensional laminar flamelets and the turbulent premixed stoich- imetric zones). But then again, too much kinetic energy contributes to thermal expansion and combustion irregularities, so you must moderate (just as you stated) Also, as a chemical engineer, I have never heard of liquid METALLIC hyrdogen. Please explain how liquid hydrogen can ever exhibit metallic properties, such as electrical and thermal conductivity or strength (tensile, shear, etc) Thanks. _______________________________________________________________________ Wayne Strasser wstrass@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: wstrass@xxx.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 07:39:08 -0400 Subject: MAP, more To: DIY --INTERNET DIY From: Wayne Strasser (CED Polymer Development) _______________________________________________________________________ Subject: MAP, more I sent a note out about a week ago, but no one has responded yet. There are misc. notes floating around: 1. Seth wrote to Denis this past weekend about how to find a Motorola MAP 2. Fred wrote to someone about a GM MAPon August 8th 3. Someone (named A70Duster???) wrote on July 26th all about GM MAP volts output vs. absolute P. Can someone suggest why I would want a Motorola versus a GM or why not?? What are the advantages of one over the other? I need only vacuum sensing capabilities, vibrational noise resistance, and minimal power consumption. Thanks. _______________________________________________________________________ Wayne Strasser wstrass@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Rich Mauruschat Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 11:57:29 +0100 Subject: Re: Bosch ECU replacement At 12:19 11/08/97 +0200, you wrote: >I need to replace the Bosch Motronic ECU on an Alfa .. >the price of a new unit is painful!! > >Any leads on alternate sources ? > >thanks Don Irwin > >-- >Don Irwin E-Mail: >don_irwin@xxx.com > > Try ATP in the UK for reconditioned/remanufactured ECU's; Tel +44 (0)1543 467466 ------------------------------ From: bibie@xxx.com (Bibiana Lim) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:41:16 +0800 Subject: Adjusting Boos Hi John, Appreciate for the feedback friendly warning! You wrote: >Before you start throwing money at the car, do some research first. Turbo >motors can usually be easily tweaked but, they can also be easily reduced >to a molten lump. For instance if you were to do nothing else besides >raising the boost via an adjustable wastegate, you may get a heap of >pinging, 5-20 secs of this & your pistons are toast! ( actually more like >donuts!) Yeah..that's where its going to end if I'm not careful. But would an additional injector help? One that gets activated at certain boost or rpm. I don't know if that's been done before. Hey...What do yo all think? Is it possible? Dangerous? >If you are looking to get the boost happening lower down the rev range, I >doubt that the wategate will help, but I dont know that motor. I suspect >to get the sort of improvement your looking for, you'll have to reengineer >the whole setup. Well not all but you certainly need to look at the turbo, >wastegate, intercooler & most importantly fuel. There's lots of dead motors >out there coz people starved the engine of fuel. Well...that's sad! I don't need a dead motor and I was thinking because it is using a computer to monitor the driving condition...maybe it can be fool into making it happen lower down the rev range. >Have a look at the quattro-list archives, there are some excellent posts >about turbos there. Do you know their URL? Rdgs Bibie. ------------------------------ From: Tom Lanigan Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:23:51 +0100 Subject: Re: Too good to let go by Terry Martin wrote: > > The following was posted to this list, and commented on by almost > nobody. I think it deserves more attention than that. > > >I'm not subscribed to the list, but have this suggested url that would > >highly educational > >to anyone interested in automotive fuel systems. > >http://www.inett.com/himac/ > This is the first time I have had any input into this group, but after following the URL and reading the garish yellow screens (that gave me a headache). I must admit that I am very intrigued by the idea of 100+ MPG I would be interesting to see some definitive proof that the system works especially if it were to be independently witnessed. Any comments? Tom Lanigan ------------------------------ From: Fred Miranda Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:16:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: MAP, more Wayne, I guess the sensor you use depends on what you are doing and how much you are screwing with electronics. Simplest and cheapest has got to be the GM. It's made to take the heat and the packaging is done for you. You can also pick them up at a junk yard for a couple bucks. If you're building some electronics, you could put a Motorola sensor right on the board. You also have more choices. I started out using GM 3bar sensors with my datalogger, now I've got a situation where 3bar isn't enough and will probably go with a 50psi Motorola. Fred At 07:39 AM 8/11/97 -0400, you wrote: >To: DIY --INTERNET DIY > >From: Wayne Strasser (CED Polymer Development) >_______________________________________________________________________ >Subject: MAP, more > >I sent a note out about a week ago, but no one has responded yet. There >are misc. notes floating around: > >1. Seth wrote to Denis this past weekend about how to find a Motorola MAP >2. Fred wrote to someone about a GM MAPon August 8th >3. Someone (named A70Duster???) wrote on July 26th all about GM MAP >volts output vs. absolute P. > >Can someone suggest why I would want a Motorola versus a GM or why not?? >What are the advantages of one over the other? I need only vacuum >sensing capabilities, vibrational noise resistance, and minimal power >consumption. > >Thanks. > >_______________________________________________________________________ > Wayne Strasser > wstrass@xxx.com > > ------------------------------ From: Kevin Rutledge Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 07:22:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Adjusting Boost (Saab's APC system) These seems to be some real confusion about Saab's APC system. Saab started putting APC (Automatic Performance Control) on turbo cars back around 1981. Their main intention with this system was simply to give you as much boost as possible with the grade of fuel you were using at any one time without damaging your engine. On those old 8 valve non-intercooled engines, this was usually around 10 PSI. When Saab developed the 16 valve engine, they put an intercooler on it. Then they started using the APC to actually limit the boost level because these engines with the Bosch LH fuel system can actually boost a lot higher and the average consumer would tend to land in a ditch pretty quickly. The system limits boost two ways: RPMs and pressure. You actually get a "slope" or "taper" to the boost levels. The ECU has a maximum level set and when you get close to that level, it starts reducing boost. This can be adjusted or defeated if you wish. The system uses a solenoid valve, which is controlled by a small ECU, to reduce the boost level at the wastegate. The ECU uses 3 signals to operate: Ignition pulse (Tach signal), Knock sensor signal and a signal from a (manifold) pressure sending unit. It is quite easy to adjust this system for more boost by tweaking a pot, but you may not want to. These engines breathe very well, but the fuel system for the US market does deliver beyond "Normal US variations" You need more fuel for more boost. The APC system is independent of the other systems in the car, the only catch is that you need a (compatible) tachometer signal. (it's just a standard signal like old points type ignitions have) I know of two people now who have installed this system on Volvo's and it works great. It doubled their stock boost levels with NO OTHER mods. I happen to have a Saab 900T which consistantly delivers 20 PSI of boost. I have no idea what this works out to in HP, but it's pretty easy to break the tires loose in 2nd gear (which isn't a good idea with a Saab tranny). On my APC system i defeated the pressure sender, so there is no limiting factor other than engine knock. For more information on APC, see http://www.teleport.com/~bertram Kevin Rutledge Formerly a Saab technician Webmaster for: http://www.ipdusa.com & http://www.saabstory.com ------------------------------ From: "Gregory Chan" Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:53:57 EDT Subject: Re: Adjusting Boost > Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 23:32:02 +0800 > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > From: bibie@xxx.com (Bibiana Lim) > Subject: Adjusting Boost > Cc: DanLlwln@xxx.com > Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Hi Dan, > > Thanks for the Feedback! Heaps of new info to absorb...some are really > out of my capability to comprehend but I promise to do more research > on your discussion. > > You wrote: > >I have been wondering about electronic boost controllers (EBC) because > >I have heard at lot of stuff that just didn't make sense. > > >Seems to me that the main benefit is that it keeps the wastegate > >closed longer before opening up. A regular wastegate using a spring > >starts to open before the boost is near the desired level so that > >the wastegate is fully opened by the time (or rather pressure) that the > >maximum boost is reached. I don't see that it will add any more > >top horsepower, but maybe some middle HP after reaching about 1/2 full > >boost. > Good point! > No..I don't think it will increase more power...but I only want it to happen > sooner...like much earlier. If you can't beat the guys .. at least I could keep > up during the pickup(start) until somewhere in middle HP. > > >The people selling the EBC (or EVC) talk about an extra 50HP on > > Wow! is this true! No wonder it is expensive! > > >my 435HP, .85Bar engine but I am skeptical. Anybody do a controlled > >test with these? I have talked to a guy who does some racing (pretty > >successful too) and he doesn't think much of EBC. > > >What about the difference between high quality vs low quality > >wastegates? Do the better ones stay closed longer using a regular > >pressure regulator? I am using an HKS racing wastegate now which > >maintained a very consistent boost on the engine dyno unlike another > >wastegate I once had. > > I guess we'll have to hear from the others on this..right! > If the motor is a North American CA18ET of mid-eighties vintage a bit of porting will do wonders in conjunction with a Nissan Motorsports European spec camshaft. gchan@xxx.ca ------------------------------ From: "Gregory Chan" Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:57:01 EDT Subject: Re: Adjusting Boost > > You wrote, > >A turbo 200 SX sounds pretty cool. I have a Plymouth Laser Turbo and I > >have done a few mods to it. On my car and I will assume yours too, my > >turbo boost is NOT controlled by the computer. What I have done to get > > Yeah..you are right! Mine is NOT controled by the computer..it uses one of > those none adjustable actuators. > On the 200SX there is a rod with a locknut on it which I think adjusts it, however, I'm not sure. > >the turbo to spool up faster is to free up the intake, put on a low > How do you free up the intake? > > >restriction cat-back exaust, and put on my own boost controller. > I've done the exhaust except the boost controller. Did you put on an electronic > boost controller? So far the feedback seem to go for the electronic ones. > But I think I'll try the manual one first...sort of diy setup! > > >If you have any questions please email me. > Keep them coming if you have more feedback on this topic. Do you know if > there are any list/forums focus on Nissan. > > I hope I have not annoy anyone talking about "Japanese Imports" !? > > gchan@xxx.ca ------------------------------ From: "Jeno Varga (MEPCD)" Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 15:58:20 +0100 Subject: RE: Bosch ECU replacement Hi Don, Are you sure about this? Mechanics always suggest an ECU replacement when they are not able to find the real problem. I think the ECU is the most reliable part of a car. So be careful. If you need any help drop me an e-mail! Jeno > ---------- > From: > owner-diy_efi@xxx.en > g.ohio-state.edu] on behalf of don > irwin[SMTP:dirwin@xxx.com] > Sent: 11 August 1997 11:19 > To: efi > Subject: Bosch ECU replacement > > I need to replace the Bosch Motronic ECU on an Alfa .. > the price of a new unit is painful!! > > Any leads on alternate sources ? > > thanks Don Irwin > > -- > Don Irwin E-Mail: > don_irwin@xxx.com > ------------------------------ From: bibie@xxx.com (Bibiana Lim) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:45:22 +0800 Subject: Adjusting Boost Gregory, You wrote, >On the 200SX there is a rod with a locknut on it which I think >adjusts it, however, I'm not sure. Yeah...this is what I meant....the Nissan 200SX is non-adjustable...no locknut for adjustments :(( Anyway Thanks! Bibie ------------------------------ From: wstrass@xxx.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:07:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Adjusting Boost (Saab's APC system) To: XXXXXXXX--XXXXXXXX cc: DIY --INTERNET DIY *** Reply to note of 08/11/97 11:43 From: Wayne Strasser (CED Polymer Development) _______________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: Adjusting Boost (Saab's APC system) I am not sure about your horsepower, but in most cases, you can APPROXIMATE the HP changes with boost by the following: New HP New Boost + 14.7 - ------ = ---------------- Old HP Old Boost + 14.7 If a vehicle was not previously turbocharged, you just change the RHS denominator to 14.7*(mean volumetric efficiency/100). These assume MANY things, but are good approximations over some ranges. I am sure some SAE paper gives more accurate estimation parameters. _______________________________________________________________________ Wayne Strasser wstrass@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Terry Martin Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:11:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Disable VATS Joe Boucher wrote: >> My friend would like to part the car out. Before he pulls > >>the engine he would like to video tape the motor running, but he doesn't > >>know if their is an easy way to bypass the VATS. Any susgestions? > >The cheapest way is get a 555 timer and clock it at a 50% duty cycle for > >the PCM VATS terminal to ground. > > The following quote is from the description of how a person stuffed a '94 > 3800 into a Fiero: > > Pass Key theft deterrent must be by-passed. I had the ignition key and > could therefore measure the resistance of the pellet. A > 10 turn pot was matched to this and soldered to the inputs of the stock > Pass Key module which will feed a 50 hz "ok" signal to > the PCM. A more elegant solution of a 50 hz wave generator is suggested but > mine works. > > Tom explaination is a bit above me. I know what a 555 chip is but I don't > know how to do what he suggested. Could you get a variable resistor, hook > a digital voltmeter to the output of the VATS and change the resitance with > the potentiometer till you get an output from the VATS? That would give > the resistance you need. > > A brute force method but it might work. Nope, unless you have the VATS "R" (read ohm) table, which is easy enough to get. VATS works because if you put any resistance across the ignition loop that does not almost exactly match the "burned in" value, it goes into a four minute (or so) time out period in which nothing will work, including the right one. If you jump in before the time out period has reset, it goes back to the beginning, and you could potentially (pun intended be there forever. A simple timer circuit using a 555 timer probably comes in the package if you buy it at an over the couter retailer. Other than that the local library will have it in one book or another. That you can use a trim pot. to set the frequency, and because the VATS control module is not in the loop it won't mess with your rig. Don't bother trying to rip off a car this way, you'll get your ass caught, and you have to disconnect the VATS control anyhow which will take the rest of your life. ------------------------------ From: Tom Lanigan Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:37:07 +0100 Subject: fuel filter location comments please I am building a Westfield Kit (Lotus seven clone) with a Vauxhall 2 liter 16v xe engine. I have decided to go for after market throttle bodies from QED in the UK they are quite nice because of the popularity of this engine have been manufactured to bolt straight to the head without a manifold. My problem is one of space there is precious little of it at the back where the tank is. I can fit the fuel pump in line before the transmission tunnel but the fuel filter is just too big. If I were to fit this straight after the pump the pipe work would be a bit ugly :-( There is however a lot more room for this bulky item if I were to plumb it into the engine bay end. Is there a problem with this? most production installations have the filter very close to the pump.. Also when going from metal pipe to flexible hose would a jubilee clip on its own be good enough or would some type of flanging or crimp be needed. Tom Lanigan ------------------------------ From: wstrass@xxx.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 15:47:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Too good to let go by To: XXXXXXXX--XXXXXXXX cc: DIY --INTERNET DIY *** Reply to note of 08/11/97 12:12 From: Wayne Strasser (CED Polymer Development) _______________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: Too good to let go by I love to be proven wrong by sufficient data; Please show me the data from you recent visits....just kidding. Everyday is a learning experience. Thanks. _______________________________________________________________________ Wayne Strasser wstrass@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Sam Brooks Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Too good to let go by At 02:23 PM 8/11/97 +0100, Tom Lanigan wrote: >I must admit that I am very intrigued by the idea of 100+ MPG >I would be interesting to see some definitive proof that the system >works especially if it were to be independently witnessed. Any comments? Hi List; I grew up reading my Father's well worn copies of Hot Rod Magazine, Motor Trend, etc. You could always count on seeing an article or two about this brand new super duper carb that was designed to get you 100+ MPG. Two names that come to mind are the Fish and the Pogue carbs. To put this all into perspective, I'm 52 years old now. None of this has come to pass over the years. Sounds like the stuff of urban legend, if not great conversation over a pitcher of beer, pickled eggs and a fistful of pretzels. Actually, I think that combo would get you farther along than any newfangled carb. Thanks for listening, says Sam, returning to his bench warming duties. Sam Brooks KitCar Listowner sbrooks@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: John Napoli Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Too good to let go by On Sat, 9 Aug 1997, Terry Martin wrote: > Crap like this is constantly propagated by individuals that a) do not > understand thermo-dynamic principles, which are not wrong, incomplete, > or otherwise irrelevant, and b) 12 ` 3ws4derg6yuhjkl;,/ > (gross, I just sneezed 1/2 a beer all over my keyboard), lets try that > again, b) don't get that even if all of the rubbish were true, and the > research demonstrating the proof was published, neither the oil > companies, government, or maniacal individuals could prevent the free > discussion of the "patent" principles, and improve, incorporate, or buy > the licence to said inventions, and that doesn't even include those > countries where technology is assembled, reverse engineered and sold > cheaper into the market without consideration to the patent application > that made it public in the first place. > > Amen. > Oh, sure, easy for you to say. But I heard of a guy, who had a cousin who used to live across the street from another guy, whose sister married this gut who used to work with someone who happened to meet someone...... .....know what I mean?? :) John ------------------------------ From: "steve ravet" Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 15:13:52 +0000 Subject: Re: Too good to let go by > I know a heavy duty mechanic in charge of the mechanical shop at a > mill that thinks installing a magnetron out of a conventional oven > into the manifold will "energize" the gas charge and produce smaller > droplets resulting in greatly improved efficiency. Let him work on the oven for a few days, then when he's frustrated tell him that's it's easier to find magnetrons in microwave ovens than conventional ovens. ha ha, just a joke... :-) > Has nobody ever heard of volumetric efficiency? If you "vibrate" > something hard enough, it gets hot, hence micro-wave ovens work. > Unfortunately, hot + manifold charge = expansion of the mixture, and > less of a charge per volume of intake stroke. It's the same as > taking your foot off the gas. Well sure, but what about a turbo or supercharger to force the original amount of air back in? sounds like you might have a more efficient engine. The Miller cycle engine makes the power decompression stroke longer than the compression stroke by intentionally leaving the intake open during part of the compression stroke. That burns less fuel and produces less power, but the engine is more efficient overall. Add a little forced induction to bring power levels back up and you are making original power on less gas. Mazda put an engine like that into the 929, don't know if they still are or not. just fuel for the fire... - --steve ------------------------------ From: "steve ravet" Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 15:18:57 +0000 Subject: Re: fuel filter location > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:37:07 +0100 > From: Tom Lanigan > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: fuel filter location > Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > comments please > > I am building a Westfield Kit (Lotus seven clone) with a Vauxhall 2 > liter 16v xe engine. I have decided to go for after market throttle > bodies from QED in the UK they are quite nice because of the > popularity of this engine have been manufactured to bolt straight to > the head without a manifold. My problem is one of space there is > precious little of it at the back where the tank is. I can fit the > fuel pump in line before the transmission tunnel but the fuel filter > is just too big. If I were to fit this straight after the pump the > pipe work would be a bit ugly :-( There is however a lot more room > for this bulky item if I were to plumb it into the engine bay end. > Is there a problem with this? most production installations have the > filter very close to the pump.. Also when going from metal pipe to > flexible hose would a jubilee clip on its own be good enough or > would some type of flanging or crimp be needed. > > Tom Lanigan On my S-10 Blazer the fuel pump is in the tank, and the filter is in the engine compartment. Also, I have attached the rubber hose directly to the steel line with hose clamps. I did use two, one right next to the other, but there is no flange on the pipe. No problems with that either. Don't know what a jubilee clip is... - --steve ------------------------------ From: Todd King Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 14:03:00 PDT Subject: knock spectra I've been having some false knock problems lately with my car and am trying to find some research papers or similar that discusses/shows the spectral signature of a "typical" knock event. I think that detonation usually shows spikes at about 6KHz (and maybe 13KHz)? Anyone know where to find useful data on the GM knock sensor of the late 80's? I mean the sensor itself, but related info on the processing module is welcome too. Thanks for any leads. I finally got the car back together ('87 turbo Regal) a few weeks ago with a decent set of ported production heads, 50lb MSD injectors and a shift kit/converter. Turbo is still too small, intercooler is still inadequate, car is still "heavy", and it was way off on the cal (pig rich, with over 1000mv seen on the O2), but that's sort of expected when you pull into the staging lanes for your first pass a week after reassembly and you haven't even gotten a full wot test blast out of it yet, or set the boost. It went a 12.2x at near 113mph (yuk- too much fuel and timing retard...) with an awful 2 sec 60' time, through the muffs. It was bogging hard out of the hole, and the knock detector was beeping for most of the run (pulling timing- and power), even with "low" boost and a tank full of C16. Fuel system fell on its face at the top of 3rd too; not enough pump. It still needs cal work and is currently way off performance-wise, but it'll get there eventually, just needs patience... Hope the knock detector problem is not too hard to sort out; I think that the new set of T&D roller rockers are the lion's share of the problem (they're fairly "loud") but there is something else amiss too. Others use these w/o problem though, but my set required notching for pushrod clearance at lift as well as valve cover grinding since they were hitting those too. Anyway I have a new "windy" turbo ;-) on the way plus mondo front mount intercooler that should liven things up a bit. Wish UPS would settle the strike as the parts are currently off in the ozone somewhere... :-( I too can vouch for the "Max Boost" book from BEGI; it's cheap and pretty good IMO. Todd tking@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: John Napoli Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Too good to let go by On Mon, 11 Aug 1997 wstrass@xxx.com wrote: > > Also, as a chemical engineer, I have never heard of liquid METALLIC hyrdogen. > Please explain how liquid hydrogen can ever exhibit metallic properties, such > as electrical and thermal conductivity or strength (tensile, shear, etc) > Wait a minute. I thought hydrogen was a metal. John ------------------------------ From: Simon Quested Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:51:21 +1200 Subject: Re: Adjusting Boost Hi Bibie and all > Here goes a silly question which maybe peanuts to all of you out there. > Anyway...I've heard that it is possible to make the "kick in the pants" come > sooner. What I want is the boost to happen earlier in the lower RPM. I suffer from the same problem The engine I have at the moment has a compression ratio of 7 to 1 and a large turbo (for a 2 litre), it is slow off the line but once it hits 3500 and 15 psi it sits you back into the seat......I have tried a sorts of things to remady this (but not NOS) running a boost solenoid helps but not as much as I wanted so I am no building a twin turbo engine running at 10 psi but with a compression ratio of 7.7 to 1.......it seems to me that if you don't want to rebuild your engine NOS is the only way to go, for a small investment the returns are great ! If you want more power and the engine can handel it you can use the cold start injector as a water injector this then allows you to run more boost without worring about detonation..... The good things about nos is that it takes away all the bad points of a turbo, 1) eliminates lag 2) it acts as an excellent inter-cooler, due to the fact that it is an expanding gas it sucks heat from its suroundings..... The reason I'm not going with nos yet is because I want to get the best street setup for my engine then add the nos ;-) A friend of mine had a 1000cc motobike with turbo and nos !!! (crazy man) the nos was activated by a switch at the throttle stop. The nos ran for 2 - 3 secs to get ove boost lag........(the guy also owned a motobike with a 351 V8 in it.......... and micracluriously he is still alive ;-) > I don't > know if it means the fuel boost or the turbo. Please help...I'm a lady and > the guys just won't show me how to do it. I ain't worry of gettin' my hands > dirty... All the fuel system in any car does is control the ratio of fuel to air most cars are tuned to 14.7 to 1 this is the ideal for economy the best for power is 12 to 1 you can do this by either getting the existing ecu tweeked (if possible) or putting in an aftermarket ecu. > BTW...I'm driving a Nissan 200SX - Turbo version(Japan Import 1990). I'm running a jap turbo at the moment ........I don't care where it's from as long as I go fast ;-) > Bibie Good to see a woman interested in performance ! Cheers Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@xxx.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgmmng +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: Terry Martin Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:49:19 -0700 Subject: Re: Too good to let go by steve ravet wrote: > Well sure, but what about a turbo or supercharger to force the > original amount of air back in? sounds like you might have a more > efficient engine. The Miller cycle engine makes the power > decompression stroke longer than the compression stroke by > intentionally leaving the intake open during part of the compression > stroke. That burns less fuel and produces less power, but the engine > is more efficient overall. Add a little forced induction to bring > power levels back up and you are making original power on less gas. > Mazda put an engine like that into the 929, don't know if they still > are or not. > > just fuel for the fire... > > --steve Why not just a super-charger and leave out the rest of the junk. It's been amply demonstrated that blowing more charge in gets more rubber. The point is what you may gain in improved combustion effeciency, you lose more on weight, loss of volumetric efficiency, and the energy to drive the magnetron in the first place. The BTU in of any system can be calculated, and I guarantee with my wife :-) that the BTU energy out is less. TPI engines are approaching the logistical limit of efficiency, and until the problem of heat loss is solved, no major improvement is going to be made. Have a chat with any chief mechanic at the "track". A turbo is the perfect example. Terry ------------------------------ From: John Napoli Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Too good to let go by On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, steve ravet wrote: > > > I know a heavy duty mechanic in charge of the mechanical shop at a > > mill that thinks installing a magnetron out of a conventional oven > > into the manifold will "energize" the gas charge and produce smaller > > droplets resulting in greatly improved efficiency. > He'd be better off mounting that Magnetron in the steering column. What a great anti-theft device.......... John ------------------------------ From: Simon Quested Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:21:11 +1200 Subject: Re: fuel filter location Hi Tom and all > > My problem is one of space there is > > precious little of it at the back where the tank is. I can fit the > > fuel pump in line before the transmission tunnel but the fuel filter > > is just too big. If I were to fit this straight after the pump the > > pipe work would be a bit ugly :-( There is however a lot more room > > for this bulky item if I were to plumb it into the engine bay end. > > Is there a problem with this? most production installations have the > > filter very close to the pump.. Also when going from metal pipe to > > flexible hose would a jubilee clip on its own be good enough or > > would some type of flanging or crimp be needed. This is what I have found out about installing your own efi..... 1) the fuel pump needs to be as clost to the tank as possible. 2) In line filters can go any where. 3) the Fuel pressor regulator has to be on the fuel rail. 4) the return fromthe regulator needs to go back to the tank. 5) a surge tank is a VERY good idea when using a std fuel tank. Hope this helps Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@xxx.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgmmng +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: Simon Quested Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:35:40 +1200 Subject: Not strickly efi........more turbo stuff Hi All Have a look at this page: http://www.turbofast.com.au/ It has some good turbo info and some handy java scripts for calulatiing turbos size C/R's etc.... Does anyone know if there is a turbo mailing list??? I have looked for one but no joy :-( Cheers Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@xxx.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgmmng +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: bibie@xxx.com (Bibiana Lim) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:39:47 +0800 Subject: Re: Adjusting Boost Simon, Thank You for your kind words and feedback. You wrote: >I suffer from the same problem The engine I have at the moment has a >compression ratio of 7 to 1 and a large turbo (for a 2 litre), it is >slow off the line but once it hits 3500 and 15 psi it sits you back You bet! After 3500 it is unforgiving! But it is in the lower revs that is not much of a runner. >into the seat......I have tried a sorts of things to remady this (but >not NOS) running a boost solenoid helps but not as much as I wanted >so I am no building a twin turbo engine running at 10 psi but with a >compression ratio of 7.7 to 1.......it seems to me that if you don't >want to rebuild your engine NOS is the only way to go, for a small >investment the returns are great ! > >If you want more power and the engine can handel it you can use the >cold start injector as a water injector this then allows you to run >more boost without worring about detonation..... I was thingking of an additional injector that activates on specific rpm. What do you think? >The good things about nos is that it takes away all the bad >points of a turbo, 1) eliminates lag 2) it acts as an >excellent inter-cooler, due to the fact that it is an expanding gas >it sucks heat from its suroundings..... > >The reason I'm not going with nos yet is because I want to get the >best street setup for my engine then add the nos ;-) That's the idea...'coz everyone can go to NOS and that misses the fun in a charming street setup. >A friend of mine had a 1000cc motobike with turbo and nos !!! (crazy >man) the nos was activated by a switch at the throttle stop. The nos >ran for 2 - 3 secs to get ove boost lag........(the guy also owned a >motobike with a 351 V8 in it.......... and micracluriously he is >still alive ;-) I must remind myself not to get that biker license... >All the fuel system in any car does is control the ratio of fuel to >air most cars are tuned to 14.7 to 1 this is the ideal for economy >the best for power is 12 to 1 you can do this by either getting the >existing ecu tweeked (if possible) or putting in an aftermarket ecu. >I'm running a jap turbo at the moment ........I don't care where it's >from as long as I go fast ;-) Zooommmmm.....man...! >Good to see a woman interested in performance ! Like you say...as long as performance is the ultimate....Man or Woman... a kick in the pants....is a kick in the pants! Cheers Bibie ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V2 #268 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".