DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 15 August 1997 Volume 02 : Number 275 In this issue: Re: Assholyness Re: Reality of Fuel Consumption RE: TPI Questions RE: Treatise on intake systems Aftermarket ECU Re: fuel filter location RE: TPI Questions Re: TPI Questions Re: Aftermarket ECU Re: Rover V8 Efi Re: Assholyness RE: Anti-turbo lag systems Re: TPI Questions Re: Rover V8 Efi Re:Assholyness Re: Aftermarket ECU Haltech Re: OOPS - wrong flame address Thanks to all!!!! RE: OOPS - wrong flame address Reading Directions. Re: Reality of Fuel Consumption Re: Too good to let go by Re: magnetron in the column Re: Too good to let go by Re: Too good to let go by Re: Haltech Re: Aftermarket ECU Re: Thanks to all!!!! GET A JOB! Re: Haltech Re: 80535 as controller Re: Reality of Fuel Consumption Re: Reality of Fuel Consumption subscription Re: Anti-turbo lag systems See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Johnny Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 04:35:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Assholyness Robert Harris wrote: > > Go ahead asshole, punish thousands of people for your > arrogance, ignorance and stupidity. Fuckheads like you > should stay with pedophiles on line and beat your meat to > the kiddy porn. Why don't you go to the web page and > follow directions - something you obviously haven't tried. > I really give a shit about your problems but stupid lazy > whining sniveling brats like you are beginning to piss me > and probably most of the list off. Believe me, if the list > subscribers could get rid off you without you following > directions - you would be history. What did I miss? - -j- (jeeze, ya doze off for just a second and...) ------------------------------ From: wstrass@xxx.com Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:50:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Reality of Fuel Consumption To: DIY --INTERNET DIY From: Wayne Strasser (CED Polymer Development) *** Resending note of 08/13/97 21:04 _______________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: Reality of Fuel Consumption ========================================================================= > >YOU CAN NEVER CAPTURE ALL OF THE ENERGY IN THE COVALENT PI AND SIGMA BONDS >IN GASOLINE...EVER HEARD OF A"CARNOT"ENGINE (ISENTROPIC, REVERSIBLE PROCESS)? > > We are not talking the theoretical heat value of gasoline, just the actual, available, proven heat value available from burning gasoline in proper concentrations with atmospheric oxygen under controlled pressure. I do not have the figures for gasoline handy, but for #2 fuel oil it is .135 million btu/us gallon.or 11.5 us gallons per million btus. In an atmospheric burner in a furnace, 65% of this heat is recoverable. With a flame retention head in the same furnace, close to 80% is recoverable. This is the difference in technology, and if a heat engine could attain 80 to 85% heat utilization, we could go 100 Miles per gallon, even with the itty bitty US gallon. AN ATMOSPHERIC BURNER HAS NO MOVING PARTS. A CARNOT ENGINE CANNOT EVEN REACH 85% UTILIZATION OF ALL "ACTUAL AVAILABLE, PROVEN HEAT VALUE AVAILABLE FROM BURN ING GASOLINE VAPOR IN PROPER CONCENTRATIONS..." ------------------------------ From: Jeffrey R Muehl Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:14:58 -0500 Subject: RE: TPI Questions I apologise - I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. It was mentioned a while back that with a standard transmission I should ground the P/N pin on the ECM - done. Someone told me that if you do this, the EGR valve will never work anyway. Is this true? And if it is, do I still need to change the timing (or fuel), when the EGR should have been working (part throttle)? Jeff ------------------------------ From: wstrass@xxx.com Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:30:56 -0400 Subject: RE: Treatise on intake systems To: DIY --INTERNET DIY From: Wayne Strasser (CED Polymer Development) *** Resending note of 08/13/97 16:01 _______________________________________________________________________ Subject: RE: Treatise on intake systems ========================================================================= GENERAL NOTE: THE ONLY REASON I AM TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS TO VISUALLY DISTINGUISH MY TEXT FROM THE PERSON'S TEXT TO WHOM I AM REPLYING. IT IS NOT BECAUSE I AM TOO LAZY TO TYPE CAPS FOR PROPER NAMES, BEGINNING SENTENCE LETTERS, ETC. I AM NOT YELLING AT ANYONE EITHER. I WILL STOP NOW, THOUGH. Jim: To your note below...I am aware of the tunability of the intake (refer to my note to Bowling asking some questions about some derivations). About laminar flow: I absolutely DO NOT think that any steady state laminar flow exists in an intake. Laminar flow (I am assuming you understand the definition) will never exist in a confined flowing system with as many twists, turns, throttle plates(s), rough walls, joints, etc as the standard intake has. I am saying though, that in any system of fluid flow, there exists a thin laminar "sublayer" next to the confining surface. It is found below the fully Reynolds stress turbulent zone and below the "buffer zone". This layer is responsible for the vast majority of the resistance of momentum transfer (fluid flow) and heat tranfer (where applicable). (In an intake, this layer would probably be very thin due to convective boundary layer deterioration from vortical penetration.) Anyway...this layer is the main reason for V.E.'s less than 100( in a non- harmonically tuned driving condition). The high level of local layer shear in this sublayer is the reason for skin friction. The separation of this sublayer from the walls & around the valves is the driver for form friction. When this layer separates from the wall, recirculating free vortices are formed within the sublayer which cause the drastic charge density loss (pressure drop due to conversion of potential energy to rotational kinetic energy). Thanks for the discussion. _________________________________________________________________________ Jim wrote: If you make a proper individual runner (IR) system and tune intake, exhaust, and cams properly you can see well in excess of 100% volumetric efficiency due to the standing pressure waves in the intake and exhaust systems. So indeed you are correct that this is an approximation, but the whole concept is based on empirical rules of thumb. I am curious about something you mentioned, though. Do you think that parts of the intake system have laminar flow and the flow separates somewhere in the intake runner? I had never put much thought to this. Jim Boughton boughton@xxx.net - ---------- From: wstrass@xxx.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 12:55 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Treatise on intake systems To: DIY --INTERNET DIY From: Wayne Strasser (CED Polymer Development) *** Resending note of 08/12/97 11:24 _______________________________________________________________________ Subject: Treatise on intake systems ========================================================================= Now to calculate intake velocity the volume displaced during the intake stroke is taken as flowing during the time of the intake stroke. This gives a volume flow rate (length cubed per time). If you divide this quantity by the intake area (length squared) you end up with a (pseudo) velocity (length per time). The volume is the cylinder volume - 500cc in your case. Note that this displacement takes place during half of a revolution. If one revolution takes 1/rpm minutes then 1/(2*rpm) minutes is the length of time for a half of a revolution. Since we are going to divide the volume by the time we end up with V*rpm*2 as the volume flow rate. Then you simply divide by the area and the appropriate conversion factors to get to feet per second or m/s whichever is preferred. JIM: YOU PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED THAT THIS IS ONLY A CRUDE APPROXIMATION OF INTAKE MEAN VELOCITY. YOUR CALCULATION DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT TWO MAIN THINGS: FORM FRICTION AND SKIN FRICTION THAT BOTH LEAD TO V.E. < 100%. AS THE INTAKE VALVE OPENS AND A PRESSURE DIFF. IS CREATED ACROSS YOUR INTAKE AND THE GAS BEGINS TO FLOW, A LAMINAR HYDRODYNAMIC BOUNDARY LAYER DEVELOPES IN THE RUNNER(S) AND THEN SEPARATES ACROSS THE VALVE. THE LAYER IN THE RUNNER CREATES SKIN FRICTION (TO THE TUNE OF 4*FANNING FRICTION FACTOR*L/D*VELOCITY HEAD SQUARED). THE LAYER SEPARATING ACROSS THE VALVE CREATES FORM FRICTION (RELATED TO SOME EMPERICAL FUNCTION OF VALVE GEOMETRY). BASED ON BERNOULLI (EXTREMELY SIMPLIFIED VERSION OF NAVIER-STOKES EQUATION), ANY GIVEN PRESSURE DIFFERENTIAL IS BALANCED BY FLOW AND FRICTION. THEREFORE, THE MEAN VELOCITY WILL BE REDUCED BY THESE FRICTION EFFECTS....BUT CAN EASILY BE COMPENSATED FOR BY MULTIPLYING YOUR VOLUME BY SOME V.E. (INSTEAD OF 500CC, USE 400CC AT 80% V.E.) ------------------------------ From: Wilkrod@xxx.com Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Aftermarket ECU Hi all, I am planning a EFI conversion on my 86 Lotus Turbo Esprit. The factory system is the Bosh CIS type. I am going to full sequential with ignition control. My question to the group is: I am planning on using a Haltech E6a ECU, and would like to know if anyone has experience with this controller. I am looking for comments either positive or negative. T.I.A. Jeff ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.com (dzorde) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 06:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: fuel filter location This is exactly the set-up I'm using. However, I've also had to add a fuel cooler to the return into the surge tank, primarily because the fuel would start to boil. Dan dzorde@xxx.com >Hi Stuart > >A petrol head working for and Air Pollution Station ?? ;-) > >> The standard fuel line enters the engine bay right up the front on >> the drivers side. I plan to take the output from the standard >> mechanical fuel pump to a surge tank at the front drivers side of the >> engine bay. > >Over here you aren't allowed to have the surge tank in the engine bay. > >> The EFI pump will be mounted next to the surge tank, and >> the return line will go back to the surge tank. > >What happens once the surge tank is full ? >I don't know if it is good to a pressurise a surge tank ? >can anyone on the list enlighten us..... > >> The part of the >> engine bay where the tank/pump goes is fairly unaffected by engine >> heat. If vaporisation is a problem, I'll extend the return line back >> and forth in front of the radiator a couple of times. The only other >> problem might be that the return line will be under pressure - the >> standard fuel pump will keep the surge tank/return line at about 3-4 >> psi. > >This is what I'm doing....... >Low pressure pump feeding the surge tank (in the boot), efi pump >feeding fuel rail (from ST), out from regulator going back to surge >tank, surge tank over flow going back to tank, Fuel tank vented to >atmosphere. >This should give good pressure regulation and no pressure build up in >the ST. > >Cheers > >Simon > > >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@xxx.nz) > Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support > Centre for Computing and Biometrics > LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND > Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgmmng >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > ------------------------------ From: James Boughton Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:44:05 -0400 Subject: RE: TPI Questions Jeff, It wouldn't surprise me if the EGR wouldn't work if you ground the P/N switch since this usually is a signal to the ECM that the car is idling. EGR is not used at idle due the desire to have good idle quality and EGR tends to increase the variation in combustion to the point that the driver can feel it. Also, as mentioned regarding large cams, the residual fraction at idle is quite large anyhow. You shouldn't have to change any of the calibration since the ECM is not turning on the EGR and it knows this. Since the ECM is aware that it is not using EGR it should never attempt to correct for it. I am not sure what the effects will be of driving the car with the engine controller always thinking you are at idle will be however. It is possible that it is no problem, then again... Jim Boughton boughton@xxx.net - ---------- From: Jeffrey R Muehl[SMTP:JRMUEHL@xxx.com] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 1997 8:14 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: RE: TPI Questions I apologise - I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. It was mentioned a while back that with a standard transmission I should ground the P/N pin on the ECM - done. Someone told me that if you do this, the EGR valve will never work anyway. Is this true? And if it is, do I still need to change the timing (or fuel), when the EGR should have been working (part throttle)? Jeff ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.com (dzorde) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: TPI Questions Sorry I'm a bit late replying to this mail, but here goes. Yes it pings without egr, mind you I have never tried it with egr so I can't compare. I left egr off for the reason of getting max power, to combat the pinging I have to run no more than 4deg advance and avgas. But I'm happy now. All I need now are some rear tyres with grip. Dan dzorde$geocities.com > > > > >I was hoping someone would jump in here. > >Do you have any evidence of the engine knocking without EGR? > >I have the same question - do I want it or not? I'm also not concern with >economy, only power. > > > > > >>I'm lost, for a performance engine, do you want egr or not ? When I built >my tpi 350, I pulled the egr valve and stuck >a blanking plate over the >hole instead, oh, I also put the little metal plates in the manifold >gaskets where the egr is >meant to breathe through. Was this a mistake (I >don't care about economy, only power)?>> >> >> >>Dan dzorde@xxx.com >> >> >>The EGR valve is still present and connected, but doesn't actually do >>anything since there isn't a supply of exhaust gas to the valve. >> >>Grounding the EGR feedback wire will set off the SES light (it simulates >>the EGR being stuck in the open position) >> >>Leaving it disconnected will also occasionally set off the SES light >(there >are a few cases where the ECM will command the EGR to actuate, then >look to >see what happened.) Fortunately, temps down here are high enough >that this >doesn't happen often. (been about 4 months since the last time >the code >went off) It will also clear itself within a few minutes of >driving. >> >>Someday I'll have an EGR flange welded to one of the exhaust headers to >>supply external EGR.. but it's a low priority. > > > > ------------------------------ From: Fred Miranda Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:24:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Aftermarket ECU Sounds like an interesting project! If you're looking at Haltech, why not wait for their new 32bit system that I _heard_ should be out before too long. Also I've seen tidbits of info on the new Fel Pro system, that might be more interesting than the E6a. Fred At 09:27 AM 8/14/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all, >I am planning a EFI conversion on my 86 Lotus Turbo Esprit. The factory >system is the Bosh CIS type. I am going to full sequential with ignition >control. > >My question to the group is: I am planning on using a Haltech E6a ECU, and >would like to know if anyone has experience with this controller. I am >looking for comments either positive or negative. > >T.I.A. >Jeff > > ------------------------------ From: bwmsbldr@xxx.com (William A Williams) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:24:30 -0600 Subject: Re: Rover V8 Efi Now that all the Lucas jokes have been posted let us ask ourselves why people bother with British cars at all. I know, I have two myself. The answer is obvious. There are characteristics in these cars that make them worthwhile despite the trouble. Bill in Boulder ---- "Engineering as an Art Form" ---- ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.com (dzorde) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:32:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Assholyness Yeah, you tell him. Well, that's certainly a colourful statement, what's the occation for such a delightful statement to this fine list of ours. Have I missed a message or two ???? Dan dzorde@xxx.au >Go ahead asshole, punish thousands of people for your >arrogance, ignorance and stupidity. Fuckheads like you >should stay with pedophiles on line and beat your meat to >the kiddy porn. Why don't you go to the web page and >follow directions - something you obviously haven't tried. >I really give a shit about your problems but stupid lazy >whining sniveling brats like you are beginning to piss me >and probably most of the list off. Believe me, if the list >subscribers could get rid off you without you following >directions - you would be history. > >"When some one gets something for nothing - > some one else gets nothing for something " > >If the first ingredient ain't Habanero, then the rest don't matter. >Robert Harris > > ------------------------------ From: John Hess Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:44:09 -0500 Subject: RE: Anti-turbo lag systems >---------- >From: Robert Harris[SMTP:bob@xxx.com] >Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 11:07 PM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: Anti-turbo lag systems > >EFI sortof. Just this morning while I was taking a Clinton and conjugating >my navel, I came up with about the same thought. Try this --- > >To "spool" up a turbo, deterministically drop SPARK to certain cylinders >and burn the mixture in the exhaust. Maybe all it would take is dropping >a single cylinder every other revolution to quickly spool up and then stop >dropping cylinders. Would shure beat all the gimmicky stuff - specially >if your EFI included a Rev Limiter that limits by "randomly" dropping spark Why not just put a combustion chamber with an air pump lead and an injector in the manifold? At least, you would get all cylinders to fire this way. >"When some one gets something for nothing - > some one else gets nothing for something " > >If the first ingredient ain't Habanero, then the rest don't matter. >Robert Harris > > >---------- >> From: Bill Jenkins >> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >> Subject: Re: Anti-turbo lag systems >> Date: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 10:18 AM >> >> >Not strictly DIY_EFI but sorta related. This thread on the Saab APC >>system >> >has got me thinking. I have seen several references in Racecar >>Engineering >> >to anti-lag systems used on current FIA rally cars like the ford, subaru >>and >> >mitsubishi. In particular I was wondering how the system worked? >> > >> >I know that early eighties ferrari F1 cars used a system that bypassed air >> >from the turbo compressor straight into the exhaust system when the >>throttle >> >was closed and ran a rich mixture to create combustion in the exhaust. I >> >also read somewhere that peugeot used to inject propane into the exhaust >>to >> >acheive the same effect before it was banned in the group B rally cars. >> > >> >Depending on how these current systems work, I would like to adapt it to >>my >> >current project. >> > >> >Any info would be appreciated. >> > >> >Max >> >> I will say that I saw quite an interesting thing of the sort one time. >>A >> Mitsubishi Eclipse Turbo came in with a fried plug wire; therefore it was >> firing on three cylinders, running rather roughly. However, all of that >> fuel was dumping into the exhaust manifold. Therefore, you could rev the >> thing in neutral, and the turbo would start whining (we had the intake hose >> off) and the boost would come up. It was the only car I have ever seen >>that >> could get full boost without moving. Really neat. The extra fuel and air >> in the exhaust manifold was burning, and propelling the turbo. > ------------------------------ From: Jeffrey R Muehl Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:01:16 -0500 Subject: Re: TPI Questions I was planning on starting at 4 degrees advance, but increase after I get the bugs worked out. Maybe I should reconsider. Sounds like you and I are doing the same thing... Do you know what type of fitting can be used for the return line (the fitting on the TPI unit / fuel rail). I can't seem to match that with anything. I have a fitting that fits the line in, but not the return line. Also, has anyone used the MSD fuel pump? Summit sells these for about $130.00. >From: dzorde @xxx.com >Date: 08/14/97 07:06:38 AM MST >Subject: Re: TPI Questions > >Sorry I'm a bit late replying to this mail, but here goes. Yes it pings without egr, mind you I have never tried it >with egr so I can't compare. I left egr off for the reason of getting max power, to combat the pinging I have to run >no more than 4deg advance and avgas. But I'm happy now. All I need now are some rear tyres with grip. > >Dan dzorde$geocities.com > > > ------------------------------ From: Jim Davies Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Rover V8 Efi On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, William A Williams wrote: > Now that all the Lucas jokes have been posted let us ask - ----------------------------snip------------------- Trust me...all the Lucas jokes have NOT been posted. References to the Prince of Darkness go on, and on... Jim Davies ------------------------------ From: Kerrie.Thornton@xxx.uk Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:15:35 +0100 Subject: Re:Assholyness Kerrie Thornton@ISL 14/08/97 17:15 Dear Bob I recently listened to a radio news broadcast about road rage murders in America. One statement that caught my attention was ' I wouldn't have shot him if he hadn't grinned at me'!! Are you related to this man? ------------------------------ From: Michael McBroom Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:49:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Aftermarket ECU Wilkrod@xxx.com wrote: > I am planning a EFI conversion on my 86 Lotus Turbo Esprit. The factory > system is the Bosh CIS type. I am going to full sequential with ignition > control. > > My question to the group is: I am planning on using a Haltech E6a ECU, and > would like to know if anyone has experience with this controller. I am > looking for comments either positive or negative. I have no direct experience to offer (hope to read from some that do, though), but I have heard that the Haltech interfaces very well with Bosch systems. I plan to replace my LH-Jet and EZ-K systems one of these days with an aftermarket stand-alone system, and am considering either the Haltech, or one of the Motec models, which are also supposed to work very well with Bosch applications. - -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC Visit the Volvo Performance Site: '88 765T 156k http://mcbrooms.com/volvo _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Wilkrod@xxx.com Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Haltech Hi all, Does anyone have any information on contacting Haltech. Phone number or website? Thanks Jeff ------------------------------ From: Barney Ward Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:24:37 -0400 Subject: Re: OOPS - wrong flame address Robert Harris wrote: > > Sorry all, flame to well deserving idiot got sent to all instead > of author. Please accept my apology for my moment of > insanity - just got off freeway from my normal daily 2 hour > 70 mile daily LA commute > > "When some one gets something for nothing - > some one else gets nothing for something " > > If the first ingredient ain't Habanero, then the rest don't matter. > Robert Harris Charles Manson must have also had a long commute... ------------------------------ From: wstrass@xxx.com Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:13:05 -0400 Subject: Thanks to all!!!! To: DIY --INTERNET DIY From: Wayne Strasser (CED Polymer Development) _______________________________________________________________________ Subject: Thanks to all!!!! I must remove myself from the list; I dont think my employer likes me overloading their gatekeeper with all this mail. Thank you to everyone who gave me advice and argued with me in the short time I have been here. I have learned very much from all of you. There is no such thing as a dumb question; all of the Q&A taught me something. I will refer this list to others who want to discuss diy efi material. Thanks especially to Garfield, Miranda, and Fridman for the advice and personal chats. I apologize for offending anyone with comments or all capital letters or any other trait of mine. If anyone wants to argue with me, respond a previous note, or ask any chemistry, thermo, fluids/heatxfer/massxfer question pertaining to the internal combustion engine, please send to me personally. I am no expert, but I can hold my own in these subjects. later to all :) _______________________________________________________________________ Wayne Strasser wstrass@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: John Hess Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:34:18 -0500 Subject: RE: OOPS - wrong flame address It only took you 2 hours to go 70 miles? Last year we visited my wife's family in Bangkok, Thailand. Her sister lives 13 kilometers from the city center (7 miles or so). This trip takes approximately 2 hours and 15 minutes by taxi (on the expressway). I quit griping about American (even LA when I am out there on business). >---------- >From: Barney Ward[SMTP:bvward@xxx.net] >Sent: Thursday, August 14, 1997 12:24 PM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: OOPS - wrong flame address > >Robert Harris wrote: >> >> Sorry all, flame to well deserving idiot got sent to all instead >> of author. Please accept my apology for my moment of >> insanity - just got off freeway from my normal daily 2 hour >> 70 mile daily LA commute >> >> "When some one gets something for nothing - >> some one else gets nothing for something " >> >> If the first ingredient ain't Habanero, then the rest don't matter. >> Robert Harris >Charles Manson must have also had a long commute... > ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:04:01 -0400 Subject: Reading Directions. >I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM - I WANT TO GET OFF THIS LIST AND CANT!!!! PLEASE >TELL ME HOW TO OR I WILL FILL IT WITH GIBBERISH - ACTUALLY, JUST MORE >GIBBERISH>>> I guess you didn't hear the new law that Clinton signed last week... sending junk email is considered a capital offense, and punishable by slow toenail removal, followed by electrical castration. This especially applies to 10 y/o's since we can nip the reproduction problem in the beginning, thus producing less snerts down the road. Since you obviously didn't keep the directions on how you signed on, here is how to get off: TO: majordomo@xxx.edu SUBJ: unzubscribe diy_efi Replace the Z in "unzubscribe" with an s. Frederic President of the anti-snert foundation ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:47:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Reality of Fuel Consumption >Speaking of MPG, I used to own a 86 Chevy Sprint ( 3 cyl 1 litre >Carbureted (feedback) that got a consisitent 55-58 MPG on the highway with >a full load. ( two people plus luggage). Not bad for a not so wimpy 1 >litre, with a carb. Ironically the newer version ( geo metro) gets poorer >mileage with fuel injection.. A friend of mine has the same car... Subaru version, with a Turbo on it. Vrooooooooom. Frederic ------------------------------ From: John Napoli Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:28:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Too good to let go by On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Terry Martin wrote: > John Napoli wrote: > > > Wait a minute. I thought hydrogen was a metal. > > > > John > > Only under the physical parameters that make it a metal. Is glass a > solid? > No -- its a supercooled liquid. John ------------------------------ From: John Napoli Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:54:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: magnetron in the column On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Todd King wrote: > > He'd be better off mounting that Magnetron in the steering column. > What a > great anti-theft device.......... > >>> > > You guys are too much! <*har-har*> Just about lost my Coke I was > sipping on at the time... Now you know a castration statement like > that is risky in the current political/social/criminal rights climate! Castration, nothing!! I meant percolating the crook's brain!! John ------------------------------ From: Terry Martin Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:07:54 -0700 Subject: Re: Too good to let go by John Napoli wrote: > That's a really good question. It envelopes everything from 100 mpg carbs > to 3 card Monty. > > John 3 card Monty? I had a buddy that had a four carb Monte, both of which I can understand, but 'fraid I's in the dark on 100mpg bizness. :-) I have mused on the "we are the universe's means of comtemplating its navel" concept, and decided that the 100mpg carb doesn't defy thermo-dynamics after all. It's just the conservation of energy principle. Every intelligent thought requires an equal and opposite stupid one. Terry ------------------------------ From: John Napoli Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Too good to let go by On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Terry Martin wrote: > John Napoli wrote: > > > That's a really good question. It envelopes everything from 100 mpg carbs > > to 3 card Monty. > > > > John > > 3 card Monty? I had a buddy that had a four carb Monte, both of which I You bet. Walk any street or subway in NYC and check it out..... :) > navel" concept, and decided that the 100mpg carb doesn't defy > thermo-dynamics after all. It's just the conservation of energy > principle. Every intelligent thought requires an equal and opposite > stupid one. > !!! John ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey Engel" Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:04:11 +600 Subject: Re: Haltech To reach Haltech try: haltech.usa@xxx.net ========================================== > From: Wilkrod@xxx.com > Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:25:19 -0400 (EDT) > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Haltech > Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Hi all, > > Does anyone have any information on contacting Haltech. Phone number or > website? > > Thanks > Jeff > > je jengel@xxx.net "I can resist anything but temptation" Mark Twain ------------------------------ From: Johnny Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:24:23 -0700 Subject: Re: Aftermarket ECU Wilkrod@xxx.com wrote: > > Hi all, > I am planning a EFI conversion on my 86 Lotus Turbo Esprit. The factory > system is the Bosh CIS type. I am going to full sequential with ignition > control. > > My question to the group is: I am planning on using a Haltech E6a ECU, and > would like to know if anyone has experience with this controller. I am > looking for comments either positive or negative. I have set up a Haltec E6a or two, and they are a great system. But, at least back when I did them, they were not sequential injection. Maybe they are now, I haven't done anything with them for a while. I will say that they are hard to beat for getting them setup and also for the range of engine applications that they can be made to work with. I suspect if they have a new one on the way, it would be sequential. - -j- ------------------------------ From: bwmsbldr@xxx.com (William A Williams) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:28:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Thanks to all!!!! Check out JUNO free E-Mail for a budget i.e. free provider. You can download it from http://www.juno.com/. If not then thanks for your involvment. Bill in Boulder ---- "Engineering as an Art Form" ---- ------------------------------ From: Brian Knowles Date: Thu, 14 Aug 97 17:46:48 -0700 Subject: GET A JOB! >From to-days issue of the San Jose Mercury: Entry Level Firmware Engineer Dinan Engineering, the leader in BMW aftermarket high performance parts is looking for a Firmware Engineer. The pos. requires knowledge of firmware reverse engineering skills & familiarity w/microcontrollers. Salary & benifits are commensurant w/exp. FAX Resume to 415-962-0133 ------------------------------ From: Doug Robson Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:55:53 +1000 Subject: Re: Haltech HALTECH 7/ 130 TAREN POINT RD TAREN POINT NSW AUSTRALIA 2229 ..... (612) 9525-2400 At 01:25 PM 8/14/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all, > >Does anyone have any information on contacting Haltech. Phone number or >website? > >Thanks >Jeff > > Mail me at mailto:doug@xxx.au <---------------- - - - - - - - -> or visit http://www.cia.com.au/doug or maybe take yourself to http://www.clubcars.org.au | When I die I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather not Screaming like the passengers in his car ------------------------------ From: "Eugene van Jaarsveld" Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 02:16:52 +0200 Subject: Re: 80535 as controller I am also contemplating building a 80c535 based efi system. I want to use the board in Elector magazine. Both my Golf GTi's are running 80c552 based ignition controllers. These came off what we called in South Africa Opel Kadet GSE's. It uses a hall effect reference signal from the Bosch dizzy. I was given software to setup the maps adapted for the bosh dizzy. I wish I could develop a realtime coms link so I could change the timing values on the dyna. I also have circuit diags and ecu's that was developed to replace Bosch's Monojetronic TBI injection. I also have software with realtime coms links for those. If anybody is interested I can mail them the software to disect. regards Eugene ------------------------------ From: clsnyde@xxx.net (Clare Snyder) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 01:33:20 GMT Subject: Re: Reality of Fuel Consumption >The biggest bottleneck to both performance and economy is >the legislatively mandated catalytic converter. In order to work >the mixture must be in a narrow range - stoichemic - which is >neither good for mileage or power. What happens is that an >engine must pump out crap so the secondary scrubber can >work and clean the crap up. Typical government non-thinking. > >Virtually all work on running on lean efficient mixtures has stopped >because its a waste of time as long as devices are mandated and >not numbers. Until numbers matter more than devices, no one will >ever see high efficiency transportation. > >"When some one gets something for nothing - > some one else gets nothing for something " > >If the first ingredient ain't Habanero, then the rest don't matter. >Robert Harris > > >---------- >> From: Dave J. Andruczyk >> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >> Subject: Re: Reality of Fuel Consumption >> Date: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 6:49 PM >> >> > >IF you could capture ALL of the heat energy known to exist in a gallon of >> > >gasoline, and get it ALL to the wheels, 100MPG would not be such a >stretch. >> > >A low-tech Austin Mini 850 from the very early 60's was capable of in >excess >> > >of 50 MPG. That engine is only about 30% efficient, by common knowlege. >With >> > >heat rejection coatings, fuel injection, full engine management, and >> > >turbocharging, possibly a bit of ceramic componentry to allow higher >> > >temperatures, it should be do-able. 100 MPG from a behemoth like a 61 >> > >Cadilac IS a stretch.> >> >> Speaking of MPG, I used to own a 86 Chevy Sprint ( 3 cyl 1 litre >> Carbureted (feedback) that got a consisitent 55-58 MPG on the highway with >> a full load. ( two people plus luggage). Not bad for a not so wimpy 1 >> litre, with a carb. Ironically the newer version ( geo metro) gets poorer >> mileage with fuel injection.. >> >> Dave >> > The cat is not mandated. Only the end result is determined by law, if you are the manufacturer. IF you can meet the requirements of the law without a cat, and have the money to certify it, you can. You are then a manufacturer.Don't put the blame on the legislators, although they deserve it for a lot of the crap they put together. Throw enough money at ANY problem, and you can either solve it or make it dissappear. ------------------------------ From: clsnyde@xxx.net (Clare Snyder) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 01:45:35 GMT Subject: Re: Reality of Fuel Consumption >>Speaking of MPG, I used to own a 86 Chevy Sprint ( 3 cyl 1 litre >>Carbureted (feedback) that got a consisitent 55-58 MPG on the highway with >>a full load. ( two people plus luggage). Not bad for a not so wimpy 1 >>litre, with a carb. Ironically the newer version ( geo metro) gets poorer >>mileage with fuel injection.. > >A friend of mine has the same car... Subaru version, with a Turbo on it. > >Vrooooooooom. > >Frederic > You mean SUZUKI version. Subaru makes a 3 cyl,non turbo 1.3. The Geo is a SUZUKI made in INGERSOL ONT, by CAMI Automotive. ------------------------------ From: "WILMAN" Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:53:23 +0800 Subject: subscription Please let me know how I can join this list. Thank you. Wilman Lee ------------------------------ From: MaxBoost@xxx.com Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:10:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Anti-turbo lag systems In a message dated 97-08-14 17:10:06 EDT, you write: << >EFI sortof. Just this morning while I was taking a Clinton and conjugating >my navel, I came up with about the same thought. Try this --- > >To "spool" up a turbo, deterministically drop SPARK to certain cylinders >and burn the mixture in the exhaust. Maybe all it would take is dropping >a single cylinder every other revolution to quickly spool up and then stop >dropping cylinders. Would shure beat all the gimmicky stuff - specially >if your EFI included a Rev Limiter that limits by "randomly" dropping spark >> Actually, I have tried this using an MSD 2 step wired to the clutch switch. The rpm limit with the clutch disengauged is 3500 and with it engauged it is 7000. The effect is at the line with the clutch disengauged and the throttle wide open I would get about 7-8 psi boost just sitting there. It definately helped with the 60 ft time. I read about the idea in an old Dave Vizard book on 2.0 ford engines. I am hoping to try an increase the amount of boost acheived at the line with an MT. I guess I'm jealous of the grand nationals being able to spool the turbo on the line against the torque converter and launch under boost. Thanks to everyone that has posted so far. Max ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V2 #275 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".