DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, 21 August 1997 Volume 02 : Number 282 In this issue: BMW Modic, Help! Injectors Re[2]: For REALLY good mileage check this out; what a waste Re: Clicking in 89 Mazda 323 Re: BMW Modic, Help! O2 sensor pintle vs. disc injector types ACCEL DFI users, Unite! Re: ACCEL DFI users, Unite! Re: ACCEL DFI users, Unite! Re: TPI Questions Re: O2 sensor thread Re: For REALLY good mileage check this out; what a waste of bandwidth Re: O2 sensor thread See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gary" Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 12:57:50 +0200 Subject: BMW Modic, Help! Hi All, Does anyone have any information on the protocol between the BMW diagnostic tool (Modic) and the DME's. It would appear to be a standard 8 bit async format possibly running at 9600 baud. If this is the case I would greatly appreciate any information on the commands sent to the DME and replies from the DME. Many Thanks Gary ------------------------------ From: Kerrie.Thornton@xxx.uk Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:31:28 +0100 Subject: Injectors Kerrie Thornton@ISL 20/08/97 13:31 Hi all, Does anyone have dimension details for bosch injectors? or a drawing. Also, I have some injectors from the 2.5 litre narrow angle V6 engine used in the GM Omega here in the UK. These have 4 nozzles. Is this unique? I assume it helps atomisation. Are there any figures to prove/disprove this? Kerrie. ------------------------------ From: Terry Sare Date: 20 Aug 97 09:04 CDT Subject: Re[2]: For REALLY good mileage check this out; what a waste Okay, we have had several weeks of this crap on things that really don't work. I don't mind a little diversion but this ongoing debate and nasty commentaries are getting a LITTLE out of hand. Last time I checked this list was for fuel injection and cars and theories that work, sorta. Let us please keep it that way. If you have personal commentaries, please email that person directly. Thank You, Terry Sare and yes, I am an eltronic enginer :-)!! ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: For REALLY good mileage check this out; what a waste of Author: owner-diy_efi-outgoing@xxx.edu at dell_unix Date: 8/19/97 11:58 PM David Doddek wrote: > > >http://home.earthlink.net/~josephnewman/ > > > >I dunno, but I suspects that this URL should read http://home.The > >Planet.ZORGON > If the guy was not trying to be so much of a salesman, the theory is > actually quite interesting. And really he is not getting something for > nothing. What he has actually invented is an extreemely save nuclear > reactor because what is actually happening is the copper atom is providing > the power as it is being destroyed. Any other Engineers or Scientists care > to comment. > > David Doddek pantera@xxx.com/~pantera 217-422-3722 > 69 EFI Fairlane, 89 T-bird SC, 74 Twin turbo NOS EFI Pantera #6825 > If you are going to go fast, go real fast. INSERT HERE THIS IS JUST SLICK SPAM Any OTHER engineers? That's scary. Ahhh, but this is scientific debate. Off the subject, I like the NOS part in your sig. MMM, MMM, smells great. No.., not actually? Actually, I'm not an Engineer (big E on purpose), I'll wish I was you. Otherwise, I'll teach my kids, the more outlandish the claim, the stricter the proof as to its veracity. Blow it, and go, Terry ------------------------------ From: ptimmerm@xxx.GOV Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:10:07 -0700 Subject: Re: Clicking in 89 Mazda 323 I know the car somewhat as I own one, but only for a short time and don't have a good tech doc on it's electronics. I am aware that it retards as a function of engine temp, but I have not see a knock sensor on it. haven't lkooked though. Does anyone have a good SAE type paper on the control systems for this car? Real helpful post, eh? paul timmerman ------------------------------ From: Land Shark Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:38:19 -0600 Subject: Re: BMW Modic, Help! At 12:57 PM 8/20/97 +0200, you wrote: > >Hi All, > >Does anyone have any information on the protocol between the BMW diagnostic >tool (Modic) and the DME's. It would appear to be a standard 8 bit async >format possibly running at 9600 baud. If this is the case I would greatly >appreciate any information on the commands sent to the DME and replies from >the DME. It is BMW's version of ISO-9141... Not always 9600 baud... Very proprietary.. I'm working on it now... it's a pain in the ass (arse ;) and *I* have source code to the DME units.. Little packets going back and forth.. Jim ------------------------------ From: verde@xxx.) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: O2 sensor Hi all, I'm new to the list and have a question. I'm retrofitting EFI from an '81 nissan 200sx into a 72 datsun 510 using a manifold that was only available in Japan for "L" series engines. Ok, my question is about the O2 sensor. I have it probably two feet from the head, so do I need to use a heated sensor to keep it in working temp and/or clean? If so is the heat on a timer and how would I set that up since the wire harness and efi brain don't support a heated O2? Thanx for the help, Jason G. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://rogue.northwest.com/~verde <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ------------------------------ From: sheridan@xxx.com (Brad Sheridan) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:20:38 +0100 Subject: pintle vs. disc injector types Hi, Does anyone either have info, or know a good place to find info on the characteristics of pintle type injectors vs. rotary(disc) injectors? I'm curious about the linearity of flow rates in each, how they respond to varying fuel pressures, how they compare in terms of fuel atomization, and whatever other useful information is available on them. Thanks, Brad ------------------------------ From: "Watson, Bill" Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 12:27:00 -0700 Subject: ACCEL DFI users, Unite! How many of us have an ACCEL DFI system and are tuning them on our laptops with ACCEL's 'CALMAP' software? I've made a lot of progress but would still like to talk with other users about higher resolution data logging, and quickly downloading files to better spreadsheets. I know of only 2 of us so far, and we could use a few more!! Are you one of them? Wat-man ------------------------------ From: michaels@xxx.com (Michael Skolones) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 14:12:04 -0700 Subject: Re: ACCEL DFI users, Unite! I am not an ACCEL DFI system owner, but I am seriously considering investing in their equipment. I would be interested in hearing a discussion on the pros and cons. How much does their computer cost, exclusive of sensors etc? Can it be used with a conventional (dual-point type) ignition system (obviously not a long-term goal, but it may be difficult to find a drop-in computerized ignition for one of my projects )? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: ACCEL DFI users, Unite! Author: diy_efi@xxx.edu at Internet Date: 8/20/97 12:27 PM How many of us have an ACCEL DFI system and are tuning them on our laptops with ACCEL's 'CALMAP' software? I've made a lot of progress but would still like to talk with other users about higher resolution data logging, and quickly downloading files to better spreadsheets. I know of only 2 of us so far, and we could use a few more!! Are you one of them? Wat-man ------------------------------ From: Michael Manry Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 15:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: ACCEL DFI users, Unite! Talk to Mark Hamel or Tom Jenkins at Mr. Gasket/ACCEL. They were both a lot of help after I gave up on the dealer I bought my system from. The version of CalMap I used (6.2) was intended for 286, 6-10Mhz laptops so you can't expect too much out of it. Mike M. On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Watson, Bill wrote: > How many of us have an ACCEL DFI system and are tuning them on our > laptops > with ACCEL's 'CALMAP' software? I've made a lot of progress but would > still > like to talk with other users about higher resolution data logging, and > quickly downloading files to better spreadsheets. > > I know of only 2 of us so far, and we could use a few more!! Are you > one of > them? > > Wat-man > ------------------------------ From: "George M. Dailey" Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:31:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: TPI Questions I'm wondering if water injection would be a better alternative to EGR? GMD At 06:33 AM 8/18/97 -0700, you wrote: >George, > >6 deg is not bad on 87 octane, on leaded (96 octane) I can't run anymore >than 3 deg (allowing for small safety margin) without the engine starting to >ping (well, sound like a machine gun). With the avgas (BP100) I can safely >run 6 deg. Mind you I'm not using the standard ecu, so there's no knock >sensing or retard facility, hence it's critical that I leave a safety margin >as well. However, I had come to the conclusion the pinging was mainly due >to the extremely high compression the engine has (between 220psi and 240psi >per cylinder). > >In fact, I can run 10 deg static if I don't load the engine heavily, ie. >stay below 2500rpm in all gears. Which is fine for city driving (less than >80kph), but you can't put your foot down at all. > >Dan dzorde@xxx.au > >>Hi Dan, what were you able to set the timing too without getting excessive >>detonation? I could only getabout 6 degrees with my egr plugged. >> >>GMD >> >> >>At 06:10 AM 8/12/97 -0700, you wrote: >>>I'm lost, for a performance engine, do you want egr or not ? When I built >>>my tpi 350, I pulled the egr valve and stuck a blanking plate over the hole >>>instead, oh, I also put the little metal plates in the manifold gaskets >>>where the egr is meant to breathe through. Was this a mistake (I don't care >>>about economy, only power)? >>> >>>Dan dzorde@xxx.com >>>>> Thanks for the help. >>>>> >>>>> This P/N thing is confusing. I have the JTR book (and a bunch others) >>>>and >>>>> most say not to ground this pin. >>>>> If I remember correctly something to do with idle and deceleration. >>>>Should >>>>> I be concerned???? >>>>> I think a lot of this is tied to an automatic transmission, not manual. >>>>Is >>>>> this true? >>>> >>>>I left mine open..sortta. I'm using Aluminum Corvette heads that do not >>>>have the internal EGR passages in combination with a '86 VIN "F" TPI >>>>manifold. >>>> >>>>The EGR valve is still present and connected, but doesn't actually do >>>>anything since there isn't a supply of exhaust gas to the valve. >>>> >>>>Grounding the EGR feedback wire will set off the SES light (it simulates >>>>the EGR being stuck in the open position) >>>> >>>>Leaving it disconnected will also occasionally set off the SES light (there >>>>are a few cases where the ECM will command the EGR to actuate, then look to >>>>see what happened.) Fortunately, temps down here are high enough that this >>>>doesn't happen often. (been about 4 months since the last time the code >>>>went off) It will also clear itself within a few minutes of driving. >>>> >>>>Someday I'll have an EGR flange welded to one of the exhaust headers to >>>>supply external EGR.. but it's a low priority. >>>> >>>>Curt Martin (cmartin@xxx.com) >>>>Ormond Beach, FL >>>>http://www.america.com/~cmartin >>>>'87 350 TPI Camaro.. (used to be a 2.8L V6 :) >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>George M. Dailey >>gmd@xxx.com >> >> > > > George M. Dailey gmd@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Sandy Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 19:25:07 -0700 Subject: Re: O2 sensor thread I think it's a spark plug thread, maybe 14mm? Sandy At 08:46 AM 8/18/97 -0800, you wrote: >The welder installed my O2 sensor adaptor but buggered up the >first couple of threads. I will re-tap as soon a someone can tell me >what size tape to use......Help >Bob Cuda-65 - Angels Camp, Calif. >cudabob@xxx.com >http://www.goldrush.com/~rhuish/ > > ------------------------------ From: pantera@xxx.com (David Doddek) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 22:07:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: For REALLY good mileage check this out; what a waste of bandwidth Boy, I never thought the responses would be this interesting. Still it would be neat if it worked. But alas, I will just stick to EFI computers. David Doddek pantera@xxx.com/~pantera 217-422-3722 69 EFI Fairlane, 89 T-bird SC, 74 Twin turbo NOS EFI Pantera #6825 If you are going to go fast, go real fast. ------------------------------ From: pantera@xxx.com (David Doddek) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 22:47:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: O2 sensor thread Nope, 18mm. and uses a gasket seat. >I think it's a spark plug thread, maybe 14mm? > >Sandy > >At 08:46 AM 8/18/97 -0800, you wrote: >>The welder installed my O2 sensor adaptor but buggered up the >>first couple of threads. I will re-tap as soon a someone can tell me >>what size tape to use......Help >>Bob Cuda-65 - Angels Camp, Calif. >>cudabob@xxx.com >>http://www.goldrush.com/~rhuish/ >> >> > > David Doddek pantera@xxx.com/~pantera 217-422-3722 69 EFI Fairlane, 89 T-bird SC, 74 Twin turbo NOS EFI Pantera #6825 If you are going to go fast, go real fast. ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V2 #282 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".