DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 29 August 1997 Volume 02 : Number 295 In this issue: Re: LED bar graph Re: LED bar graph Re: Renault FI? Re: is their Re: CDI, accelerometer Tuning Book List injector bosses Re: is their Re: Renault FI? Re: Tuning Book List Re: Renault FI? Re: Renault FI? Re: Back pressure and torque Propane A/C 30 LED air fuel ratio meter Re: Propane A/C Re: Back pressure and torque o2 sensor Re: injector bosses Re: 30 LED air fuel ratio meter Re: o2 sensor Re: injector bosses Re: LED bar graph EFI Basic Q's Re: Oxygenates Re: o2 sensor Re: injector bosses See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eduardo Gimeno Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:10:31 +0200 Subject: Re: LED bar graph At 09:30 28/08/97 -0500, Tom Cloud wrote: >anyone know a part no. for an LED bar graph that takes 0 to >1 volt or such as an input ??? I know they're out there, have >used them long, long ago .... but now can't find one. This >is not a plain bar graph assembly -- it would be an integrated >circuit voltage/level indicator. > >thanks, >Tom Cloud > > Why don't sheep shrink when they get wet ? > > Most common voltmeter for led is LM3914 Connections are as follows: Vcc ->Pin 3 Gnd->Pin 2,4,8 Signal to measure->Pin 5 10K var. resistor->Between Pins 6 and 7 (adjust this to make 1 volt max read) Outputs to Led 1..10->Pins (in order) 1,18,17,16,15,14,13,12,11,10 (pin 1->Led 1, Pin 10->Led 10) I usually supply it with 5 volts, and I dont remember now if it can be connected to car battery directly. (can use a LM7805 as 5volt regulator->Pin 1 is in, pin 2 is gnd and pin 3 is 5v output) ================================ |Eduardo Gimeno Gonzalez | |mailto://eduardo@xxx.es | |mailto://edu@xxx.com | |mailto://a920374@xxx.es| |http://www.ctv.es/USERS/eduardo| | Segovia-SPAIN | ================================= ------------------------------ From: Bruce Bowling Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:16:13 EDT Subject: Re: LED bar graph > Doesn't Digikey still sell a module with the LM3914 + LED's on a little > ckt board? > > -- > Matt > > I know that jameco (www.jameco.com) does. - - bruce - -- - ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23606 (804) 249-7240 bowling@xxx.gov/~bowling - ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 13:45:35 -0700 Subject: Re: Renault FI? Paul Witek wrote: > > Hey gang- > > So, I'm in the u-pull salvage yard, pulling Bosch bits off of various cars > for dirt cheap (Weber throttle body - $10 - woohoo!) when I come across a > Renault Medallion. Now, most of the Renaults I've seen either have a TBI > system or Bosch L-Jet, but this one had a funky cast cover over the a/f > meter that read "Injection Renault". It was definitely a MPI system - > anyone know what the specs are on it? Is it a derivative of something else? > For the curious, I'm currently in the process of gathering bits to adapt a > Bosch L-Jetronic system from a California-spec Renault Alliance 1.4 liter to > my 1962 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1.3 liter. The beauty part is that the nice > Weber throttle body drops right into place on the stock intake manifold, a > direct replacement for the stock Solex downdraft. Now I just need to figure > out how to modify the manifold for the injectors.... > > Paul Witek > > zagato@xxx.net > Shemp Mo-Din Italian Motorsports > http://www.evansville.net/~zagato mallory makes a nice little alum fuel injector mount . drill out manifold and insert injector mounts. or drill out manifold .521 drill 17/32 and bevel the top instant injector mounts then use mallory fuel rail . Steve Parkman flash.net/~swagaero ------------------------------ From: garfield@xxx.com (Garfield) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:46:01 GMT Subject: Re: is their On Thu, 28 Aug 1997 05:51:42 -0700, swagaero wrote: > I want to be >able to run a 2, 3, 4, 6 cylinder engine off of one ECM using one >program as I have done with my last project. ........ >The problem is putting 1 crank and two cam sensors and go to six >cylinder from a 2 cylinder. Think on that one. Geez, Steve, what ARE you up to now?! TWO cylinders? =46or those of ya that might not know, Steve is heavily involved in = FI'ted auto engine conversions for use in Experimental Aviation, in addition to his automotive interests. OK, the Metro is a 3-banger, but WHAT is it you're looking at with 2 Cylinders??? I hope it's not a secret, and you'd have to shoot me. 8) Garfield ------------------------------ From: A70Duster@xxx.com Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 17:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: CDI, accelerometer One could take the voltage out from the speedo route it to a differentiating op-amp and drive some type of meter (analog or digital). Could be done for about $10-$20, how fancy do you want to get, then SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!! See ya, Mike ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 17:09:00 -0500 Subject: Tuning Book List - -> **** Scientific Design of Exhaust & Intake Systems - -> by John C. Morrison, Philip Hubert Smith Despite its fancy title this book has very little useful information, and most of that is useful only in the sense of being historic. I strongly recommend you see if you can borrow a copy through inter-library loan instead of putting out money for it. Once you look at it, you'll see why. ====dave.williams@xxx.us========================DoD#978======= can you help me...help me get out of this place?...slow sedation... ain't my style, ain't my pace...giving me a number...NINE, SEVEN, EIGHT ==5.0 RX7 -> Tyrannosaurus RX! == SAE '82 == Denizens of Doom M/C '92== ------------------------------ From: James Weiler Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: injector bosses On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, Paul Witek wrote: > Hey gang- > Now I just need to figure > out how to modify the manifold for the injectors.... > Hi Paul. You and I are at the same place. I'm trying to figure out how to mount injector bosses in an aluminum intake as well. I've thought about threading them in but large taps and dies are expensive, but if this is the way to go then I'll just bite the bullet. Welding (I've been told) will distort the manifold too much. What about bolting it to a pair of heads prior to welding? Ideas anybody? I've heard alot of people have epoxied them in place but I worry about the durability of the epoxy. How long will it take for gas to break it down is one of my concerns. I don't know but epoxy just sounds Mickey Mouse. Am I way out of line here? My bosses have an outside diameter of 0.845 inch and I've drilled a 14mm hole through the centre for the O-ringed part of the injector to fit into. I have access to a lathe so I can mill them down to 0.75 inch diameter. What kind of angle between the boss and the runner are you going to use? The Corkey Bell book claims 20 degrees is maximum. If you look at what's out there (i.e. Accell for example) they mount bosses straight up. The intake runner is at about 45 degrees in that case so the angle is between the boss and the runner is also 45 degrees. So much for the 20 degree rule. Perhaps I'm sweating something really trivial and I should just get on with it. cheers jw ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:43:43 -0700 Subject: Re: is their Garfield wrote: > > On Thu, 28 Aug 1997 05:51:42 -0700, swagaero wrote: > > > I want to be > >able to run a 2, 3, 4, 6 cylinder engine off of one ECM using one > >program as I have done with my last project. > ........ > >The problem is putting 1 crank and two cam sensors and go to six > >cylinder from a 2 cylinder. Think on that one. > > Geez, Steve, what ARE you up to now?! TWO cylinders? > > For those of ya that might not know, Steve is heavily involved in FI'ted > auto engine conversions for use in Experimental Aviation, in addition to > his automotive interests. > > OK, the Metro is a 3-banger, but WHAT is it you're looking at with 2 > Cylinders??? I hope it's not a secret, and you'd have to shoot me. 8) > > Garfield Old technology Half a VW beleive it or not.!! - -- ----|------||------|---- --|------[]------|-- 0/ \0 www.flash.net/~swagaero ------------------------------ From: James Weiler Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Renault FI? On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, swagaero wrote: > Paul Witek wrote: > > > > direct replacement for the stock Solex downdraft. Now I just need to figure > > out how to modify the manifold for the injectors.... > > > > Paul Witek > > mallory makes a nice little alum fuel injector mount . drill out > manifold and insert injector mounts. or drill out manifold .521 drill > 17/32 and bevel the top instant injector mounts then use mallory fuel > rail . Ya that works great if you've got enough material on the manifold. The wall thickness on my runners is no more than a 1/4 of an inch thick. good idea if you can do it though jw ------------------------------ From: James Weiler Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Tuning Book List On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, Dave Williams wrote: > > -> **** Scientific Design of Exhaust & Intake Systems > -> by John C. Morrison, Philip Hubert Smith > > Despite its fancy title this book has very little useful information, > and most of that is useful only in the sense of being historic. > Ok thanks for the tip. You wouldn't happen to have read the "Practical gas flow" book have you? Anybody? cheers jw ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 17:35:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Renault FI? James Weiler wrote: > > On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, swagaero wrote: > > > Paul Witek wrote: > > > > > > direct replacement for the stock Solex downdraft. Now I just need to figure > > > out how to modify the manifold for the injectors.... > > > > > > Paul Witek > > > > mallory makes a nice little alum fuel injector mount . drill out > > manifold and insert injector mounts. or drill out manifold .521 drill > > 17/32 and bevel the top instant injector mounts then use mallory fuel > > rail . > > Ya that works great if you've got enough material on the manifold. The > wall thickness on my runners is no more than a 1/4 of an inch thick. > > good idea if you can do it though > > jw Take a look at my web site and look at the Subaru EA-81 and see how I inserted the mounts through the side of the heads. You can thread the inserts in or weld I know those will work. If you want you can try my GM electronics and see how good it works. Steve - -- ----|------||------|---- --|------[]------|-- 0/ \0 www.flash.net/~swagaero ------------------------------ From: clsnyde@xxx.net (Clare Snyder) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 01:47:38 GMT Subject: Re: Renault FI? >Hey gang- > > So, I'm in the u-pull salvage yard, pulling Bosch bits off of various cars >for dirt cheap (Weber throttle body - $10 - woohoo!) when I come across a >Renault Medallion. Now, most of the Renaults I've seen either have a TBI >system or Bosch L-Jet, but this one had a funky cast cover over the a/f >meter that read "Injection Renault". It was definitely a MPI system - >anyone know what the specs are on it? Is it a derivative of something else? >For the curious, I'm currently in the process of gathering bits to adapt a >Bosch L-Jetronic system from a California-spec Renault Alliance 1.4 liter to >my 1962 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1.3 liter. The beauty part is that the nice >Weber throttle body drops right into place on the stock intake manifold, a >direct replacement for the stock Solex downdraft. Now I just need to figure >out how to modify the manifold for the injectors.... > > >Paul Witek > >zagato@xxx.net >Shemp Mo-Din Italian Motorsports >http://www.evansville.net/~zagato > > AMC / RENIX system - a unit all it's own. I was looking for my manual- seam to have misplaced it ------------------------------ From: Greg Pruett Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:09:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Back pressure and torque swagaero wrote: > > I love to see it when everbody starts to think remember it's the amount > of heat that makes a o2 sensor work Put the sensor as close to the ports > as possible with batch fired use just one cylinder and put it 2 inches > off the head wit sequentional put where all the runners come together. > > Steve Parkman I'm converting an olds to port EFI by using the manifold from a 77 caddilac that had an olds engine and an analog injection system. I'm going to try and use an '88 or so camaro TPI controller. I guess this means I'd be allright if I just mounted the O2 sensor where the EGR valve should go? That looks a lot simpler than removing an exhaust manifold and tapping it or trying to mount the sensor in the exhaust pipes somewhere. I'm gonna ditch the EGR valve anyway, it's not required on the car so I don't want to fool with it. Thanks Greg Pruett `72 Vista Cruiser `67 Cutlass Supreme ------------------------------ From: Thor Johnson Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:06:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Propane A/C Could someone email me (since this isn't related to EFI) details about the propane fridge effect (how it works, how to build it, if it's possible for a tinkerer to build such a thing). Was wanting to cool the driver's cabin & not need the horsepower hunger A/C compressor... Thanks! Thor Johnson johnsont@xxx.edu http://falcon.cs.mercer.edu/~johnsont Have you seen the WarpMap lately? http://falcon.cs.mercer.edu/~johnsont/warpmap ------------------------------ From: Craig Pugsley Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:57:39 +1000 (EST) Subject: 30 LED air fuel ratio meter Hi there, This may well be old news, but I have put a copy of a 30 LED air fuel ratio meter curcuit (in both GIF and Postscript format) at: http://www.3rotor.com/rotary/IDEAS.HTM#30ledaf I'm also working on putting up a curcuit for a rev limiter that can be added to any conventional kettering ignition (ie non-cdi), with "new, patented technology" (an SCR ;-) that completely eliminated mis-timed sparks. Cheers, Craig. ------------------------------ From: senator@xxx.edu (Bill Bradley) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Propane A/C > Could someone email me (since this isn't related to EFI) details about > the propane fridge effect (how it works, how to build it, if it's > possible for a tinkerer to build such a thing). > > Was wanting to cool the driver's cabin & not need the horsepower hunger > A/C compressor... > > Thanks! Look under "absorption cooling" in books on heat pumps or refridgeration design. They're not complicated (no moving parts), but not fast to cool down either. If you can do basic plumbing and pipe soldering you should be able to build one (I'd suggest a Lithium Bromide with provision to drain and refill to avoid freezing rather than playing with Anhydrous Ammonia.) Bill ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:12:43 -0700 Subject: Re: Back pressure and torque Greg Pruett wrote: > > swagaero wrote: > > > > I love to see it when everbody starts to think remember it's the amount > > of heat that makes a o2 sensor work Put the sensor as close to the ports > > as possible with batch fired use just one cylinder and put it 2 inches > > off the head wit sequentional put where all the runners come together. > > > > Steve Parkman > > I'm converting an olds to port EFI by using the manifold from a 77 > caddilac that had an olds engine and an analog injection system. I'm > going to try and use an '88 or so camaro TPI controller. I guess this > means I'd be allright if I just mounted the O2 sensor where the EGR > valve should go? That looks a lot simpler than removing an exhaust > manifold and tapping it or trying to mount the sensor in the exhaust > pipes somewhere. I'm gonna ditch the EGR valve anyway, it's not > required on the car so I don't want to fool with it. > > Thanks > > Greg Pruett > `72 Vista Cruiser > `67 Cutlass Supreme use the 1989 camaro tpi ecm (z28) you only need the 5 basic sensors cts, ait, o2, map, tps. ignore speed sensor mount the o2 in the exhaaust pipe as close to exhaust ports not hot enough at egr location.o2 mounts easy to come by go to any parts house and get anti fowler 18mm cut off outer threads weld to exhaust pipe done. need more hollar. Steve - -- ----|------||------|---- --|------[]------|-- 0/ \0 www.flash.net/~swagaero ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:18:32 -0700 Subject: o2 sensor In the land downunder they are still using leaded fuel. With this statement comes the question what type of o2 sensor is being used?? second part can we get them in the states?? Steve Parkman ----|------||------|---- --|------[]------|-- 0/ \0 www.flash.net/~swagaero ------------------------------ From: Johnny Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:06:17 -0700 Subject: Re: injector bosses James Weiler wrote: > > On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, Paul Witek wrote: > > > Hey gang- > > > > > Now I just need to figure > > out how to modify the manifold for the injectors.... > > > Hi Paul. You and I are at the same place. I'm trying to figure out how > to mount injector bosses in an aluminum intake as well. I've thought > about threading them in but large taps and dies are expensive, but if > this is the way to go then I'll just bite the bullet. > > Welding (I've been told) will distort the manifold too much. What > about bolting it to a pair of heads prior to welding? Ideas anybody? > I've heard alot of people have epoxied them in place but I worry about > the durability of the epoxy. How long will it take for gas to break it > down is one of my concerns. I don't know but epoxy just sounds Mickey > Mouse. Am I way out of line here? > > My bosses have an outside diameter of 0.845 inch and I've drilled a 14mm > hole through the centre for the O-ringed part of the injector to fit into. > I have access to a lathe so I can mill them down to 0.75 inch diameter. > > What kind of angle between the boss and the runner are you going to use? > The Corkey Bell book claims 20 degrees is maximum. If you look at what's > out there (i.e. Accell for example) they mount bosses straight up. The > intake runner is at about 45 degrees in that case so the angle is between > the boss and the runner is also 45 degrees. So much for the 20 degree rule. > > Perhaps I'm sweating something really trivial and I should just get on > with it. Both Accel and MSD sell inserts made of aluminum, in both thread in and weld/epoxy in. I think you will find that there is not enough meat to thread them in where you want to at the angle you want. I haven't tried to epoxy them in, but I would think that JB-Weld would do just fine there if everything was cleaned right (read freshly glass beaded). I have also welded them in and can clue you in on the distorsion issue. Make a jig out of some HEAVY angle iron and bolt the intake manifold to it like you would bolt it to a head. Find yourself somebody that does TIG in their sleep with both hands tied behind there back. The bead doesn't have to be big (read too much heat) if the holes were cut well for the inserts. After the welds are done and the manifold has cooled all the way, unbolt the manifold from the angle iron. Take a die grinder and remove the part of the insert that protrudes into the runner. The inserts are longer than you need, and you will have to test fit an injector in there to see how far you need to have your insert into the hole you cut in the manifold. When you are done the warpage should be minimal, but take it over to the broach at your friends machine shop and surface it anyway. If it is very minimal, you can just use a long board and some 50 grit cloth. - -j- ------------------------------ From: Steve Lamb Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:04:21 +1000 Subject: Re: 30 LED air fuel ratio meter >This may well be old news, but I have put a copy of a 30 LED air fuel ratio >meter curcuit (in both GIF and Postscript format) at: >http://www.3rotor.com/rotary/IDEAS.HTM#30ledaf A project/circuit based on the LM3914 was featured in the November 1995 issue of Silicon Chip (an Oz electronics mag). The PCB's for the project (@$A5 + p&p) are still available from: R.C.S. Radio Pty Ltd 651 Forest Rd, Bexley, NSW, 2207, Australia Tel: +61 2 9587 3491 Fax: +61 2 9587 5385 email: rcsradio@xxx.au (with a website 'on the way) Unfortunately they don't accept 'plastic'. >I'm also working on putting up a curcuit for a rev limiter that can be >added to any conventional kettering ignition (ie non-cdi), with "new, >patented technology" (an SCR ;-) that completely eliminated mis-timed >sparks. I'd be most interested in this. Steve Lamb Department of Defence, DSTO Aeronautical and Maritime Research Laboratory 506 Lorimer Street Fishermans Bend VIC 3207 Australia Tel: +61 3 9626 7525 Fax: +61 3 9626 7089 IZCC #180 ------------------------------ From: Steve Lamb Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:17:34 +1000 Subject: Re: o2 sensor >In the land downunder they are still using leaded fuel. With this >statement comes the question what type of o2 sensor is being used?? >second part can we get them in the states?? While unleaded fuel is still used in Oz, all vehicles sold after 1986 were mandated to use unleaded and only those use EGO's. Leaded fuel is due to be completely fazed out around the year 2000. So unfortunately, no, there are no 'special' sensors available for use over here with leaded. Further on this issue: can someone advise me of an EGO supplier in the States that will ship OS ?? I'm yet to find an 'aftermarket' supplier in Oz and the OEM ones are just plain ridiculous prices. I'd prefer to buy new (seconhand ones being a bit of a lottery). TIA Steve Lamb Department of Defence, DSTO Aeronautical and Maritime Research Laboratory 506 Lorimer Street Fishermans Bend VIC 3207 Australia Tel: +61 3 9626 7525 Fax: +61 3 9626 7089 IZCC #180 ------------------------------ From: Seth Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:29:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: injector bosses On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, James Weiler wrote: > > > On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, Paul Witek wrote: > > > Hey gang- > > > > > Now I just need to figure > > out how to modify the manifold for the injectors.... > > > Hi Paul. You and I are at the same place. I'm trying to figure out how > to mount injector bosses in an aluminum intake as well. I've thought > about threading them in but large taps and dies are expensive, but if > this is the way to go then I'll just bite the bullet. > > Welding (I've been told) will distort the manifold too much. What > about bolting it to a pair of heads prior to welding? Ideas anybody? > I've heard alot of people have epoxied them in place but I worry about > the durability of the epoxy. How long will it take for gas to break it > down is one of my concerns. I don't know but epoxy just sounds Mickey > Mouse. Am I way out of line here? > > My bosses have an outside diameter of 0.845 inch and I've drilled a 14mm > hole through the centre for the O-ringed part of the injector to fit into. > I have access to a lathe so I can mill them down to 0.75 inch diameter. > > What kind of angle between the boss and the runner are you going to use? > The Corkey Bell book claims 20 degrees is maximum. If you look at what's > out there (i.e. Accell for example) they mount bosses straight up. The > intake runner is at about 45 degrees in that case so the angle is between > the boss and the runner is also 45 degrees. So much for the 20 degree rule. > > Perhaps I'm sweating something really trivial and I should just get on > with it. > > cheers > jw > I welded mine. Lots of heat. About 250 amperes worth for about 24 linear inches of weld. I drilled all the bosses is a chunk of 0.75 by 1.00 inch aluminum. That keeps the centers consistent. Welding shouldn't be a big deal, if you warp the mounting surface, it should be minimal ,and a dust off on a belt sander should fix that, of if you want to get trick, a flycut on a mill. The intake gets hot for the use of DGEBA (room temp) epoxies with the usual amine curing agent. A pre-preg epoxy for use and cure at elevated temp should be fine. One I use cures for 1 hr at 325 F. We use the stuff on several different intake parts. Seth Allen ------------------------------ From: Sandy Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:46:13 -0700 Subject: Re: LED bar graph Check DigiKey or Jameco, national used to make a LED bargraph with the intgrated controller glued on the back. Sandy At 09:30 AM 8/28/97 -0500, you wrote: >anyone know a part no. for an LED bar graph that takes 0 to >1 volt or such as an input ??? I know they're out there, have >used them long, long ago .... but now can't find one. This >is not a plain bar graph assembly -- it would be an integrated >circuit voltage/level indicator. > >thanks, >Tom Cloud > > Why don't sheep shrink when they get wet ? > > ------------------------------ From: Don Bowen Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 23:11:40 -0700 Subject: EFI Basic Q's Hi all, I've been following the list for a couple of days and I have a question that I can't work out for myself. Here's the situation: I want to build a high-performance Toyota 22R motor for my car - bigger pistons, higher compression and fatter cam. The old way of building the motor would be with dual side draft Webers, but I want to build a more modern powerplant. What (opinion wise) do you think is the best price/performance way of injecting the engine? Modified stock ECM, aftermarket, GM system or what? I'm a student, so I don't have alot of cash to throw around, but I want something that works and can be reprogrammed to do what I want. The manifolds and sensors are the easy part. It's the "brain" I'm worried about. Thanks for the answers people... Robert Bowen California, via Thailand, Czech Republic Linguistics Student; mechanic; Vespa collector *1967 Toyota Corona, 1976 Vespa Rally 200* Ska is the ONLY Jamaican music that counts ------------------------------ From: Jeremy Fleming Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 02:30:17 -0600 Subject: Re: Oxygenates On 28-Aug-97, dzorde wrote: >I think this was covered several months ago. The conclusion was that >hydrogen peroxide is very corrosive and will eat the inside of everything it >runs through. Can anyone elaborate on this. >Dan dzorde@xxx.com >> Someone had mentioned using Hydrogen Peroxide as an oxygen-adding >>compound in a gasoline engine...what is the plausibility of this? I know >>that Nitrous would be much more potent, but would a peroxide-injection >>system be worth looking into? >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I wasn't in on the original discussion, but I did just go through the Kansas Cosmosphere, and they had an exhibit on the the first rocket powered plane, the Me162 Komet (think I have the model right). It used nearly pure hydrogen peroxide as the oxidizer for the rocket motor. Due to the corrosive nature (and instability) of the peroxide this was an extremely dangerous plane to refuel, let alone fly. Seems that pure hydrogen peroxide produces horrible chemical burns, in addition to being explosive. Not A Good Thing in a moving vehicle. Jeremy jeremy@xxx.net jeremy@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Johnny Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 01:27:54 -0700 Subject: Re: o2 sensor swagaero wrote: > > In the land downunder they are still using leaded fuel. With this > statement comes the question what type of o2 sensor is being used?? > second part can we get them in the states?? I gave up on trying to use one with 100LL. Started looking into using EGT in place of O2 sensor. For our application where idle and low speed are just a convenience and not used too much, as well as not a lot of heavy transitional modes, I figured EGT would be the ticket. Still in just the idea stage though, haven't actually tried anything with it as a correction table yet. - -j- ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.com (dzorde) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 01:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: injector bosses I would think the mounting angle is irrelevant, since you want to try and point the injectors onto the inlet valve, hence they would not all be identical. But this is just my thought. Dan dzorde@xxx.com > > >On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, Paul Witek wrote: > >> Hey gang- > > > >> Now I just need to figure >> out how to modify the manifold for the injectors.... >> >Hi Paul. You and I are at the same place. I'm trying to figure out how >to mount injector bosses in an aluminum intake as well. I've thought >about threading them in but large taps and dies are expensive, but if >this is the way to go then I'll just bite the bullet. > >Welding (I've been told) will distort the manifold too much. What >about bolting it to a pair of heads prior to welding? Ideas anybody? >I've heard alot of people have epoxied them in place but I worry about >the durability of the epoxy. How long will it take for gas to break it >down is one of my concerns. I don't know but epoxy just sounds Mickey >Mouse. Am I way out of line here? > >My bosses have an outside diameter of 0.845 inch and I've drilled a 14mm >hole through the centre for the O-ringed part of the injector to fit into. >I have access to a lathe so I can mill them down to 0.75 inch diameter. > >What kind of angle between the boss and the runner are you going to use? >The Corkey Bell book claims 20 degrees is maximum. If you look at what's >out there (i.e. Accell for example) they mount bosses straight up. The >intake runner is at about 45 degrees in that case so the angle is between >the boss and the runner is also 45 degrees. So much for the 20 degree rule. > >Perhaps I'm sweating something really trivial and I should just get on >with it. > >cheers >jw > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V2 #295 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".