DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, 2 September 1997 Volume 02 : Number 302 In this issue: Marelli Injection and Engine Weights... Re: Weld-L's Re: toyota injectors injector bosses / Magnetti Marrelli EFi Re: DIY-EFI Lurkers & furthermore :-) Re: 3 wire GM sensor, sequential injection Re: Weld-L's Re: SwagAero's Ping Sensor & Indicator Circuitry Re: Renault FI? Re: Lighten up -Re: non-EFI crap Re: injector bosses / Magnetti Marrelli EFi Re:Weld "l"'s O2 sensor grounding; was RE:O2 sensor 4wire Re: DIY-EFI Lurkers & furthermore :-) Bosch LH-Jet 2 /'84 Volvo troubles Conversion of FI Hyundai Accent to Propane. Re: valve needed O2 sensor grounding; was O2 sensor 4wire Re: O2 sensor grounding; was RE:O2 sensor 4wire Re: Bosch LH-Jet 2 /'84 Volvo troubles Re: O2 sensor grounding; was RE:O2 sensor 4wire Daihatsu EFI Re: Weld-L's (fwd) SV: Bosch LH-Jet 2 /'84 Volvo troubles Re:Weld "l"'s Re: DIY-EFI Lurkers & furthermore :-) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Witek Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 05:17:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Marelli Injection and Engine Weights... Just a few links that you all might find interesting. Located a firm in Italy selling software to read/modify the maps in ECUs. No prices listed, but the info there does look promising. They're Dimensione Sport, and the site is at: http://www.dimsport.it/uk/index.htm As for engine weights, long ago I bookmarked a site listing weights for quite a few different engines. Interesting stuff. It's at: http://www.team.net/sol/tech/engine.htm And with that, I'm off to yank more FI stuff out of the boneyard.... Paul Witek zagato@xxx.net Shemp Mo-Din Italian Motorsports http://www.evansville.net/~zagato ------------------------------ From: Frank F Parker Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Weld-L's > Does anybody have a source for these "weld-L's"? I've called the local > hydraulic supply houses and they don't have a clue what I'm talking about. > I've done a web-search as well, but come up empty, only to find thin-wall > tubing. > > Either stainless or "mild" would be great for my exhaust plumbing > application. I'd like something that's about 1.5" I.D. I don't know what > kind of wall thicknesses we are talking about for these "weld-L's"... > > Thank you, > > Brock Fraser > fraser@xxx.net You need to go to an industrial wholesale plumbing suppy store. They are called weld els. If there is not one in your area, then they can be purchased from the best industrial supply hse in the USA: McMaster-Carr in Chicago, IL. Frank Parker fparker@xxx.edu Motorsports Data Acquisition > > > ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 05:54:04 -0700 Subject: Re: toyota injectors David Chambers wrote: > > Hi, I am building a computer to run a friends 20 valve 4AGE toyota motor > in a race car. The question i have is does any one know the driving > requirements for the injectors on this motor. All i know at this stage > is that they measure 34 ohms coil resistance. I am hoping that these are > high impedance injectors and can be all wired in parallel and fired by > one FET to ground. Also does any one know anything about how the > variable valve timing works on this motor. > Thanks > David Chambers Yes they will fire in parallel but it better be a big heat sunk fet. Steve - -- ----|------||------|---- --|------[]------|-- 0/ \0 www.flash.net/~swagaero ------------------------------ From: Rich Mauruschat Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:33:03 +0100 Subject: injector bosses / Magnetti Marrelli EFi >From: Chris Wilson >Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 22:16:25 +0100 >Subject: Magnetti Marelli EFI system programming. Chris, As you have access to the interface and software, why not use the Weber alpha? >From: James Weiler >Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 19:03:07 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Injector bosses & stuff >Thanks for the sharing the advice Rich. I take it your intake was cast iron? No James, the inlet manifold is cast aluminium. Interesting also to see the weight figures from Brian Knowles! Unfortunately in the UK we don't have the benefit of Turbo Pinto SOHC 4's to overcome the weight handicap so turbo exhaust manifolds are difficult to come by - unless anyone can tell me otherwise?!!. Still, our cars are that much lighter I guess, I don't suppose 0-60mph in 8.6secs. with 110 flywheel bhp is very common in the US? Rich. ------------------------------ From: MikeTurner@xxx.com (Mike Turner) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:02:14 -0400 Subject: Re: DIY-EFI Lurkers & furthermore :-) Please define DERM (Delco Electronics Runs Motor? :-) ). At little explanation of pre-crash mode would help, too. TIA. >Terry Martin wrote: > > I know there just has to be a Delco Powertrain lurker in here somewhere. > I'm gonna get flamed again but anyone know how to get the DERM to cough > up the crash data. It Lurks on the bus listening to gaddom nearly > everything and does a write down to non-volatile ram for about two > minutes after going into pre-crash mode. ------------------------------ From: Chief Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:35:18 -0400 Subject: Re: 3 wire GM sensor, sequential injection At 11:19 AM 8/30/97 -0400, you wrote: >Anybody have the schematic for the GM 3 wire sensor? I have headers on my 84 >Monte Carlo and I'm having trouble with the sensor cooling off and I want to >wire in a heated sensor. Had the same problem with mounting the old O2 sensor in the header collector. I used a 3-wire sensor off an Escort at the j-yard (cause it was easiest to get to). It had two wires the same color and the other different, either blk/blk/wht or wht/wht/blk. The single color is the sensor feed and the other two are +12V and ground (interchangable). Ed Hilker aka "Chief" 84'SS - 700R4 ------------------------------ From: Brock and Jennifer Fraser Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 09:40:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Weld-L's >> >> Does anybody have a source for these "weld-L's"? I've called the local >> hydraulic supply houses and they don't have a clue what I'm talking about. >> I've done a web-search as well, but come up empty, only to find thin-wall >> tubing. >> >> Either stainless or "mild" would be great for my exhaust plumbing >> application. I'd like something that's about 1.5" I.D. I don't know what >> kind of wall thicknesses we are talking about for these "weld-L's"... >> > >Did you try Ed's? No, but I did look in their catalog and it appears that they only carry "tubing" of the thin-wall variety. When the person on this list mentioned the thick sections of the weld-L's it sounded like a really nice building block to make a turbocharger manifold from. The other exhaust places I have catalogs for are: Burns, Stahl, and Stainless Specialties. Burns has cast collectors from time to time, but not any "bends". Thanks for the feedback, and if anyone else has any leads, please let me know. Brock Fraser fraser@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:51:07 -0500 Subject: Re: SwagAero's Ping Sensor & Indicator Circuitry >On Mon, 01 Sep 1997 18:58:02 -0700, swagaero wrote: > >>Steve Parkman > >Hey Steve. > >Just incase you thought that because nobody responded publically to your >PROMISE to post your 3-LED Ping Sensor & Display circuit, we didn't >care. Oh, "ou contraire", I'm sure I'm not alone in waiting with baited >breath for you to post the thing on Tues. I saw a picture of this thang >in Contact! magazine several months ago, and swore I'd send in the $5 >Mark said yous guys were asking fer it, but alas, I flaked. Well, how >bout this?, SINCE you're gonna post it for free, I do hereby solemnly >sware before the entire DIY_EFI community, that I owe you TWO FlyIn >beers the next time I have a chance to pay. OK? > >Just wanted to encourage you to Go On! > >Garfield I don't know what he said, but I'm interested too 8^) Tom Cloud They say the mind is the first thing to go ... and I can't remember the second ------------------------------ From: Mark Taschek Date: Tue, 2 Sep 97 10:17:40 CDT Subject: Re: Renault FI? > >AMC / RENIX system - a unit all it's own. I was looking for my manual- seam > >to have misplaced it > > > I don't know about over in the US, but in the UK and mainland Europe > Renault used the Renix multiport injection on the 2.2 litre engine used > on the Renault 25. I think that the turbo versions of the Renault V6 > used Renix as well. (The non-turbo versions used K-jetronic) > -- > Chris Morriss > //////////////////////// Chris are you living in the UK and what else do you know about the Renix multiport box?? and are there any contacks there that you know of?? Mark Taschek mtaschek@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: "Joseph A. Zammit" Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:36:46 +0200 Subject: Re: Lighten up -Re: non-EFI crap Hey I am doing some research about Eledtronic fuel injection systems. Do you know of some web addresses that can give me some information ? Thank you for your help Joseph A. Zammit jozamm@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: Michael McBroom Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:37:12 -0700 Subject: Re: injector bosses / Magnetti Marrelli EFi Rich Mauruschat wrote: > No James, the inlet manifold is cast aluminium. Interesting also to see the > weight figures from Brian Knowles! Unfortunately in the UK we don't have the > benefit of Turbo Pinto SOHC 4's to overcome the weight handicap so turbo > exhaust manifolds are difficult to come by - unless anyone can tell me > otherwise?!!. Still, our cars are that much lighter I guess, I don't suppose > 0-60mph in 8.6secs. with 110 flywheel bhp is very common in the US? Being mindful of the hazards of jumping in during the middle of a conversation (haven't been following this thread), I figured I'd butt in anyway :) The "Turbo Pinto SOHC 4" was available as a 2.3L in the Merkur over here in the States. I dunno how common that car was in Europe, but since it was produced in Germany, perhaps parts may be available over there as well. - -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC Visit the Volvo Performance Site: '88 765T 156k http://mcbrooms.com/volvo _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "David W. Taylor" Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:41:59 -0700 Subject: Re:Weld "l"'s Since I started the whole thing and didn't give enough information,,,, :) I called around local and the base suppliers are piping suppliers. (IE: Famillion.)Here in Portland oregon. By way of example: 90Deg 1" $4 90Deg 1.5" $6 45 Deg 1" $3.80 45 Deg 1" $5.70 These are schedule 80 mild steel I believe. Piping terminology for these is "weld in elbow" Hope this helps..... - -- David Taylor Portland Oregon-My opinions are mine ,, and nobody elses. Off-Ph(503) 613-8132 mailto:dwtaylor@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Greg Woods Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:29:15 -0500 Subject: O2 sensor grounding; was RE:O2 sensor 4wire > > I saw that someone mentioned a Ford 4 wire O2 sensor. > > Is there any sensors/brands that would offer me an alternative to the > > Toyota 4 wire sensor I have to replace this week? > > Thank you > > > My recollection is that a 4 wire is power and ground for the heater , > groundfor the sensor, in case the exhaust system is "floating" and the > signal for the sensor signal. A well grounded 3 wire should work, or use > the sensor ground to ground the exhaust. When I first thought about this thread on 4 wire EGO's I thought, "why would you need that? just use the exhaust as ground" Then I got to thinking about how my exhaust is grounded (not well) and I'm thinking maybe I should convert my retrofitted GM TBI single wire O2 sensor to a multi wire sensor with a dedicated ground (I have been getting some intermittant 02 sensor faulty errors from my ECM, but I thought it was just freakin out). So let me ask this stupid question: does this ford sensor puts out the same 0 to ~1V signal as the GM? Does GM not make a multi-wire sensor? What is the cost of the ford sensor? oh and one last stupid question: do all injectors use the 18 X 1.5mm thread? TIA. and BTW, even with the off topic messages, I love this list! Greg Woods gwoods@xxx.com austin, tx 86 cherokee w/GM TBI ------------------------------ From: Terry Martin Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 08:54:53 -0700 Subject: Re: DIY-EFI Lurkers & furthermore :-) Mike Turner wrote: > > Please define DERM (Delco Electronics Runs Motor? :-) ). > At little explanation of pre-crash mode would help, too. TIA. That's pretty much a true statement too, but it's Diagnostic Energy Reserve Module, read SIR controller. Pre-crash mode is a little bit of fun that is when the "arming sensor" on the high side of the deployment loop, closes at low level velocity changes and powers the loop with a trickle current connected directly to the 36V loop reserve of the DERM, insuring the inflator modules are directly energized from the reserve capacitor when a "discriminating sensor" closes, (14 mph frontal impact no more than 30 degrees off the centerline of most vehicles, blowing the airbag in under 1/20 sec, which means it expands toward your face at 200mph, with +/-2600psi.) Don't you feel better now, knowing that your DERM equipped vehicle not only spies on your driving habits, it plays with the detonators by powering them up "a little bit" just to be sure it can pound you in the face at will with approximately the best punch Mohammed Ali ever threw. If you ever pile up your car, there is almost nothing these quaint little devices don't know about it, and you will be appropriately spanked. Terry ------------------------------ From: michaels@xxx.com (Michael Skolones) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:25:28 -0700 Subject: Bosch LH-Jet 2 /'84 Volvo troubles Help! Does anyone out there know what the LH-Jet 2 test port signal means _before_ the 02 sensor kicks in and closed-loop mode begins? Here's my problem; I don't think it's all that uncommon on LH-Jet 2 Volvos. Once the car reaches closed-loop mode, it runs fine. When first starting the car in the morning (about 60 deg F outside), the car will fire right up, run for about 30 seconds (or less) and quit as if all fuel were cut off, and is very difficult to start thereafter. I'm attempting to diagnose the problem using the LH-Jet 2 test port (located near the ignition coil and air mass meter on my 240 Volvo). When the car is warm and closed-loop mode is functioning properly, the signal at the test port is a time-varying voltage related to the signal produced by the O2 sensor. The air-mass-meter mixture screw can be set so that the test point voltage bounces back and forth regularly between approx 0 volts and approx 4 volts. When the car is cold, the test port signal behaves differently. When the car is first cranked, the signal pops up to the "high" value ( approx 4 volts as in closed loop mode) and remains there until the car starts. After 15-30 seconds the signal falls back to zero; within five seconds the car will stall. The car seems to restart only when the signal pops back up to "high", which for some reason does not happen every time the motor is cranked. I just installed new plugs, plug wires, cap, rotor, air filter thermostat, timing belt, etc. I'm about to change the fuel pump relays. The air mass meter isn't very old, though this doesn't necessarily mean anything. Since the car runs great once it starts, I don't think the air mass meter is at fault. As a second question, does anyone know how to test the air mass meter, other than the classic "unplug it" strategy? Third, would a faulty block temperature sensor prevent the car from running? Thanks Mike Skolones ------------------------------ From: rbujhawan@xxx.com (Robindra Bujhawan) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:19:33 -0400 Subject: Conversion of FI Hyundai Accent to Propane. - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB7AA.5E7B6640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Folks, I'm new to this list. I have been converting carburetted cars to run on = propane for several years now. The cars actually run on dual fuel, = either gasoline or propane. I recently purchaced a new Hyundai Accent and would like to convert it = to run on propane. This is a different ball game as the car is Fuel = Injected and I'm not too familiar with the FI systems. I'm looking for any help/info. I can get on this project. Any help would = be greatly appreciated. Robin. - ---------- From: Michael McBroom[SMTP:bodhi@xxx.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 1997 2:13 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: injector bosses / Magnetti Marrelli EFi Rich Mauruschat wrote: > No James, the inlet manifold is cast aluminium. Interesting also to = see the > weight figures from Brian Knowles! Unfortunately in the UK we don't = have the > benefit of Turbo Pinto SOHC 4's to overcome the weight handicap so = turbo > exhaust manifolds are difficult to come by - unless anyone can tell me > otherwise?!!. Still, our cars are that much lighter I guess, I don't = suppose > 0-60mph in 8.6secs. with 110 flywheel bhp is very common in the US? Being mindful of the hazards of jumping in during the middle of a conversation (haven't been following this thread), I figured I'd butt in anyway :) The "Turbo Pinto SOHC 4" was available as a 2.3L in the Merkur over here in the States. I dunno how common that car was in Europe, but since it was produced in Germany, perhaps parts may be available over there as well. - --=20 Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC Visit the Volvo Performance Site: '88 765T 156k http://mcbrooms.com/volvo _________________________________________________________________________= Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of=20 Research Interest: Biological Origins =3DMcBroom's Camera = Bluebook=3D of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton =09 _________________________________________________________________________= - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB7AA.5E7B6640 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhUSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQmAAQAhAAAAMjYwOTE2NTczMzIxRDExMUIyOTcwODAwMkJFNkFF NDQAzQYBBYADAA4AAADNBwkAAgAOABMAIQACACMBASCAAwAOAAAAzQcJAAIADgATACEAAgAjAQEE kAYAnAEAAAEAAAANAAAAAwAAMAAAAAALAA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAZQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u AN0BD1QCAAAAACdkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1JwBTTVRQAGRpeV9l ZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUAAAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMw AQAAACMAAABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAA AAAAAwAVDAEAAAACAQswAQAAACgAAABTTVRQOkRJWV9FRklAQ09VTE9NQi5FTkcuT0hJTy1TVEFU RS5FRFUAHgABMAEAAAAlAAAAJ2RpeV9lZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUnAAAA AB4AIDoBAAAAJQAAACdkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1JwAAAAALAEA6 AQBSZQMA/g8GAAAAAwAAOQAAAADTXAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBIABACwAAABDb252ZXJzaW9uIG9m IEZJIEh5dW5kYWkgQWNjZW50IHRvIFByb3BhbmUuAFAPAQOQBgC8CQAAGgAAAAsAIwAAAAAACwAp AAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAACAQkQAQAAANMGAADPBgAA+QsAAExaRnWRKUAV /wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzIDxgcTAoO6MxMNfQqACM8J2TsV /3gyNTUCgAqBDbELYG7wZzEwMxQgCwoS8gwBgmMAQCBIaSBGBvAYa3MsCoUKhUknbaQgbgfRdG8c wGgEAKQgbAQAdC4cQCARwFB2ZSBiCeEgBaButx3wACALgGceYArAYghwPRIAdAmAHxIEIBzRcnVz A6ACICBwA2AKsByQIB8CEAXAEfAeoQdAIHllkR/ybm93HZBUaB4Akx/jANB0dQdAbHkgVg5kI4Eh QApQbCwgZYZpHQAEkCBnYXMG8O8LgB4ABbEg1S4bfSBQBZD1CfB0I7FwCHARsSfQH8DSYRyDSHkg cGQLcBNwTmMn0iNAKXAgdwhgbLsfwB1Qax4AHNEedSAlEL8gLyaQIrEdIR0hKOBkBpD2ZgSQKfJi I5ElYQeAI0A3IBEi1C1yRiSxHEBuam8FkB+iKjIcU28r4hzgZn8u0AMQBzAFwAPwHQAvM0aJHbBz eR1wZW1zJq7zHGEVkG9rHuIhUgBwI8DxItBscC8LgAIQHZIfIP0DoGcSACCSHQMg0TBiHZC+QTWV KmUeICVgFgBhKAL8YXAg0AWQBzAfoSatCAAeYguAJq0K9B1QMTgwwQLRaS0xNDQN8AzQ8z2jC1kx NgqgA2AfoCNgfCAtP8cKhz57DDA/Rka9A2E6QM4/RgyCBdBpEbExMBFNY0IDYANwW1NQTVRQOgbg ZB0QQCciIR0AJbFrLhyQdF2/QG9BfQZgAjBCr0O7VApQ+nMpgHkk4AZgBTAzYB4gCQXAMDIk4DE5 OTcAIDI6MTMgUE1zRx9BfVRvSV9Duy3QeT5fDcBGEAWgKpADcGIukQnwZy5vHRBvLR1wnzoxUlAk UE1vSC51YjBi80+PQ7tSZVXwC4AwYgWxlwbgBBAHkS8F0GFnRtE7HtBZIXIWACOgGvBFRuZpO888 0zM2PkcUIgwB3T9GUkSRWSEIcHUE8BHA1QVAdz9SOjOsPgewHODeSi7RG1AvMwuAbDbhA4H/BpAG 8B/AHSEfIB1wI0AKQP8x8AMAYlAdkQIwLhEdcB7ifwdAJZAcwhHwKwEi0F9Xd9klAGdoBUA9cGcf YQQg3QNSIEUgBzADoEsicWDg8HMhIFU2IQAgIHA6MecjsQuALzNVS2URJEACIP4nBUAd02RqHiAc kD1wNvFuZkshH0Ac4FALgBzRU0BPSEMgNCcgE2//HqEFoC7hL0JlJRHAKXBEkJ85wCGAHOFrMl9X ZXgRwP9eEGEIIzEWAC3DRJAqkCvj5WzjYiPALSAgcGcBIzH/NZACICLiNyFaAWEQZIgxYEMlMQPx ZT8hIR2QU/8e0COgJOAIYSL1cLEdAF5R/G11XaEdUGVRJUEdsGWwz3KBJOAdsGkEc3U50FiwyWSI MC1b8G1wMpBoMWg4LjYR8GMzgDJUMTcZICFAI7B3ItAwEWJo/ziQHSEeoSPAbOEEYAOgaDZ0Uz8z rEIlAB7xYmFk3ySgAyBq8S9CEcB6CxEEIPVq8WpiUHAe4mgxJFAFEGce8S9CMfBkZGDgauJhuwqF HnRzOXBSwAOgKB3S/2kiHiNhYRWQA/CBwx0hHQB5OVFkKXgiZZQw8jjxdS8CQFgBCoU1gXdLgCA6 likzrCLCImsvNCIqYH8vER3gC3ALYAJgLvMo4DKoLjNMaCZNBJBrddH/bKI1sRYACoVoNXVQOjF6 0f94MiBwInAdwCKAfNZ2ky+C24tCaDFFCHAg8GUk4Idh/yGAC4An0CvBCoWLQiDRJFB7KKJoMUcE kAOBS5GSEHL9EcBwN3FGQQQgAMAjwDkR/4uIjaMlIi7ykxZaASatP8CfflgdcBttRI0zrCc4TNAQ NzQ1VEyQMjNrsSpgL0FQbBCeTlYEAOsr0iLRVgbwdmthBJAhUbsDgZLBUyUQXsedEDidQPI2nXI1 Np3Qoq+jR1wd/xqhDGAV4D9FPPBGoB/AZWAAdHA6Ly9tY2L3RTIzgGzhL6AgoBFcHz9k/QqFX6n/ qw+sH60vrXIzrN5HIdAkUR+gdUF1DbACMPUk4Ewe4XUdYUSQBCCxP/2xtUGHcJAgjYFrADr2B5Bv IiFdoWLmVfBCUsAVkGd7biEDIE8FELVQBjGxtD37RQVsQUMu0SHQZlAKQQbg7TTgPQqFavFMGPEj gDbQ/7G/um+kL6U/pk+nVKgfqSt/t0AdUCFRAwAo4I8TZ0Fp/4OCJRBLkS/wI6AesQIgRDP/w1ip j8VPxl/Hb63PW08Z+QupDRUhAMyAAB4AcAABAAAALAAAAENvbnZlcnNpb24gb2YgRkkgSHl1bmRh aSBBY2NlbnQgdG8gUHJvcGFuZS4AAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAby3y+N1rMT4MSOEEdGrGgBglzDplgAA QAA5AMB3KcPMt7wBAwDxPwkEAAAeAB4MAQAAAAMAAABFWAAAHgAfDAEAAAA7AAAAL089UEVUUk9U UklOL09VPVBPSU5URS1BLVBJRVJSRS9DTj1SRUNJUElFTlRTL0NOPVJCVUpIQVdBTgAAAgH5PwEA AABXAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAatLkIACsv4YIBAAAAAAAAAC9PPVBFVFJPVFJJTi9PVT1QT0lOVEUt QS1QSUVSUkUvQ049UkVDSVBJRU5UUy9DTj1SQlVKSEFXQU4AAB4A+D8BAAAAEgAAAEJ1amhhd2Fu IFJvYmluZHJhAAAAAgH7PwEAAABXAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAatLkIACsv4YIBAAAAAAAAAC9PPVBF VFJPVFJJTi9PVT1QT0lOVEUtQS1QSUVSUkUvQ049UkVDSVBJRU5UUy9DTj1SQlVKSEFXQU4AAB4A +j8BAAAAEgAAAEJ1amhhd2FuIFJvYmluZHJhAAAAQAAHMJDwJ8PMt7wBQAAIMLAbMcPMt7wBAwAG EGvZ14QDAAcQuAUAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREEkAAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABISUZPTEtTLElNTkVXVE9U SElTTElTVElIQVZFQkVFTkNPTlZFUlRJTkdDQVJCVVJFVFRFRENBUlNUT1JVTk9OUFJPUEFORUZP UlNFVkVSQUxZRUFSU05PV1RIRUNBUlNBQ1RVAAAAAAMADTT9PwAAAgEUNAEAAAAQAAAAVJShwCl/ EBulhwgAKyolFx4APQABAAAAAQAAAAAAAABtDg== - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB7AA.5E7B6640-- ------------------------------ From: sheridan@xxx.com (Brad Sheridan) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:04:51 +0100 Subject: Re: valve needed Clare Snyder wrote: > The Bosch CIS with Lambda uses a duty valve in the fuel return line (very >much like an EFI injector) to control lower chamber pressure separate from >injection system pressure, by bleeding fuel back to the tank. Lower control >(lower chamber) pressure translates to higher injection volume. Failure of >this device would cause lean condition, unless it failed in the open (stuck) >mode. > >The later (K-E Jetronic) version uses a balance valve, which is NOT pwm >controlled but a basic moving coil type analog device, to vary the pressure. >This unit also has an aluminum fuel distributor housing, rather than the >cast iron. It is used on the FOX, made in Brazil and imported to north >america for several years - as well as other models I have not yet identified. Other US VW models using KE-Jetronic: Scirocco 16V, GLI16V 1.8L, GTI16V 1.8L, and some of the other A2 models used it I believe. >This would be my first choice, if I can aquire one at a reasonable cost in >the near future. It shouldn't be too difficult to get a fuel distributor in good shape from a salvage yard. I've got a decent bit of info on the differential pressure regulator used on this system at home. I'll dig it up if you're interested. Brad ------------------------------ From: Greg Woods Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:26:12 -0500 Subject: O2 sensor grounding; was O2 sensor 4wire > > I saw that someone mentioned a Ford 4 wire O2 sensor. > > Is there any sensors/brands that would offer me an alternative to the > > Toyota 4 wire sensor I have to replace this week? > > Thank you > > > My recollection is that a 4 wire is power and ground for the heater , > groundfor the sensor, in case the exhaust system is "floating" and the > signal for the sensor signal. A well grounded 3 wire should work, oruse > the sensor ground to ground the exhaust. When I first thought about this thread on 4 wire EGO's I thought, "why would you need that? just use the exhaust as ground" Then I got to thinking about how my exhaust is grounded (not well) and I'm thinking maybe I should convert my retrofitted GM TBI single wire O2 sensor to a multi wire sensor with a dedicated ground (I have been getting some intermittant "02 sensor faulty" errors from my ECM, but I thought it was just freakin out). So let me ask this stupid question: does this ford sensor puts out the same 0 to ~1V signal as the GM? Does GM not make a multi-wire sensor? What is the cost of the ford sensor? oh and one last stupid question: do all injectors use the 18 X 1.5mm thread? TIA. and BTW, even with the off topic messages, I love this list! Greg Woods gwoods@xxx.com austin, tx 86 cherokee w/GM TBI ------------------------------ From: clsnyde@xxx.net (Clare Snyder) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:29:53 GMT Subject: Re: O2 sensor grounding; was RE:O2 sensor 4wire >> > I saw that someone mentioned a Ford 4 wire O2 sensor. >> > Is there any sensors/brands that would offer me an alternative to >the >> > Toyota 4 wire sensor I have to replace this week? >> > Thank you >> > > >> My recollection is that a 4 wire is power and ground for the heater , >> groundfor the sensor, in case the exhaust system is "floating" and the > >> signal for the sensor signal. A well grounded 3 wire should work, or >use >> the sensor ground to ground the exhaust. > >When I first thought about this thread on 4 wire EGO's I thought, "why >would you need that? just use the exhaust as ground" Then I got to >thinking about how my exhaust is grounded (not well) and I'm thinking >maybe I should convert my retrofitted GM TBI single wire O2 sensor >to a multi wire sensor with a dedicated ground (I have been getting >some intermittant 02 sensor faulty errors from my ECM, but I thought >it was just freakin out). So let me ask this stupid question: does >this ford sensor puts out the same 0 to ~1V signal as the GM? Does GM >not make >a multi-wire sensor? What is the cost of the ford sensor? > >oh and one last stupid question: do all injectors use the 18 X 1.5mm >thread? > >TIA. and BTW, even with the off topic messages, I love this list! > >Greg Woods >gwoods@xxx.com >austin, tx >86 cherokee w/GM TBI > Sensor output will be the same. As for price, I have not checked, but at a swap meet last month a guy had somewhere around 100 of the dang things for $5 each!!. I almost bought a couple, didn't, and am now kicking myself. Taken off of propane or CNG conversions, if memory serves me correctly - virtually brand new, sans box. 18X1.5 appears to be as close to a standard as you will find. ------------------------------ From: clsnyde@xxx.net (Clare Snyder) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:33:00 GMT Subject: Re: Bosch LH-Jet 2 /'84 Volvo troubles > Help! > > Does anyone out there know what the LH-Jet 2 test port signal means > _before_ the 02 sensor kicks in and closed-loop mode begins? > > Here's my problem; I don't think it's all that uncommon on LH-Jet 2 > Volvos. Once the car reaches closed-loop mode, it runs fine. When > first starting the car in the morning (about 60 deg F outside), the > car will fire right up, run for about 30 seconds (or less) and quit as > if all fuel were cut off, and is very difficult to start thereafter. > I'm attempting to diagnose the problem using the LH-Jet 2 test port > (located near the ignition coil and air mass meter on my 240 Volvo). > > When the car is warm and closed-loop mode is functioning properly, the > signal at the test port is a time-varying voltage related to the > signal produced by the O2 sensor. The air-mass-meter mixture screw > can be set so that the test point voltage bounces back and forth > regularly between approx 0 volts and approx 4 volts. > > When the car is cold, the test port signal behaves differently. When > the car is first cranked, the signal pops up to the "high" value ( > approx 4 volts as in closed loop mode) and remains there until the car > starts. After 15-30 seconds the signal falls back to zero; within > five seconds the car will stall. The car seems to restart only when > the signal pops back up to "high", which for some reason does not > happen every time the motor is cranked. > > I just installed new plugs, plug wires, cap, rotor, air filter > thermostat, timing belt, etc. I'm about to change the fuel pump > relays. The air mass meter isn't very old, though this doesn't > necessarily mean anything. Since the car runs great once it starts, I > don't think the air mass meter is at fault. > > > As a second question, does anyone know how to test the air mass meter, > other than the classic "unplug it" strategy? > > Third, would a faulty block temperature sensor prevent the car from > running? > > Thanks > > Mike Skolones > If the block temp sensor says the engine is hot, and it is not, the engine, in open loop, will run lean. If it says it is -60, and it is not, an open loop engine will run rich. Both can cause stalling and hard restart, so the answer to your question is a (qualified) yes. ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:40:05 -0500 Subject: Re: O2 sensor grounding; was RE:O2 sensor 4wire >When I first thought about this thread on 4 wire EGO's I thought, "why >would you need that? just use the exhaust as ground" Then I got to >thinking about how my exhaust is grounded (not well) and I'm thinking >maybe I should convert my retrofitted GM TBI single wire O2 sensor >to a multi wire sensor with a dedicated ground (I have been getting >some intermittant 02 sensor faulty errors from my ECM, but I thought it's actually amazing that a sensor with a fairly hi-Z output driving a 10M-ohm or so input works as well as it does .... considering all the noise sources near it. I run RG-188 (miniature, shielded, teflon jacketed coax) to mine. The 4-wire sensor no longer relies on cast-iron blocks and rusty exhaust pipes as connections for the hi-Z signal. >it was just freakin out). So let me ask this stupid question: does >this ford sensor puts out the same 0 to ~1V signal as the GM? Does GM yes (with some exceptions) ... but, yes for you ;-) >not make >a multi-wire sensor? What is the cost of the ford sensor? when I went to PepBoyz to get one for my '91 F-150, I found that was the only year they didn't have a listing for (it is the only year they used the 4-wire sensor). Ford wants something on the order of $85 (my discounted price) 8^) >oh and one last stupid question: do all injectors use the 18 X 1.5mm >thread? all I know of below is copy of post I received quoting price on EGO sensor for 1991 302 F-150 ======== Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:44:03 -0400 From: Partlink@xxx.com To: cloud@xxx.edu Subject: Re: catalog - quote Part #1060 $38.01 This is our 4 wire oxygen sensor. You can e-mail your order or call at 1-800-347-2702. We charge $5.00 S/H on orders under $100.00 and we pay the freight for orders above $100.00. We except Visa/Mastercard/COD/or check in advance. Any questions or concerns let us know! Thanks! Tom Cloud They say the mind is the first thing to go ... and I can't remember the second ------------------------------ From: Webb Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 11:52:54 -0800 Subject: Daihatsu EFI I just got ahold of a nice little car for basically free (traded for it). It is a Daihatsu Charade (88). The problem was that it bent a valve when it broke a timing belt. The previous owner had pulled the head, then decided he didn't know what he was doing (he did a good job of saving parts) I got the factory manual (best I've ever seen), and my impression is that the little 3 cylinder, MPFI is very impressive. The controller is made by "Denso" and controls spark as well as EFI. Everything is simple, easy to find, work on, and understand. There is no noticable internal wear even though it has over 100K. I notice that this really neat EFI unit is batch fire. I had assumed that commercial units would go to the trouble to do sequential. What percentage do, and how much advantage is it? Does anyone know anything about this unusual model (they seem to be popular in Australia)? ------------------------------ From: "Xxxx Xxxxxx" Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:58:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Weld-L's (fwd) I got all my mild bends from believe it or not J.C. Whitney. They have 1.5" U and J bends and the wall thickness is very impressive ~.100 - -J To: cc: From: jshapiro @xxx.com Date: 09/02/97 01:37:29 PM AST Subject: Re: Weld-L's (fwd) Do you have any info that might help my buddy? He's custom fabbing a twin turbo LT1 for a Jaguar... Eeeiish! ;) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 09:40:01 -0500 From: Brock and Jennifer Fraser Reply-To: diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Weld-L's >> >> Does anybody have a source for these "weld-L's"? I've called the local >> hydraulic supply houses and they don't have a clue what I'm talking about. >> I've done a web-search as well, but come up empty, only to find thin-wall >> tubing. >> >> Either stainless or "mild" would be great for my exhaust plumbing >> application. I'd like something that's about 1.5" I.D. I don't know what >> kind of wall thicknesses we are talking about for these "weld-L's"... >> > >Did you try Ed's? No, but I did look in their catalog and it appears that they only carry "tubing" of the thin-wall variety. When the person on this list mentioned the thick sections of the weld-L's it sounded like a really nice building block to make a turbocharger manifold from. The other exhaust places I have catalogs for are: Burns, Stahl, and Stainless Specialties. Burns has cast collectors from time to time, but not any "bends". Thanks for the feedback, and if anyone else has any leads, please let me know. Brock Fraser fraser@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: "Stefan Olsson" Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:25:45 +0200 Subject: SV: Bosch LH-Jet 2 /'84 Volvo troubles - ---------- > Från: Michael Skolones > Till: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Ämne: Bosch LH-Jet 2 /'84 Volvo troubles > Datum: den 2 september 1997 19:25 > > Help! > > Does anyone out there know what the LH-Jet 2 test port signal means > _before_ the 02 sensor kicks in and closed-loop mode begins? > > Here's my problem; I don't think it's all that uncommon on LH-Jet 2 > Volvos. Once the car reaches closed-loop mode, it runs fine. When > first starting the car in the morning (about 60 deg F outside), the > car will fire right up, run for about 30 seconds (or less) and quit as > if all fuel were cut off, and is very difficult to start thereafter. > I'm attempting to diagnose the problem using the LH-Jet 2 test port > (located near the ignition coil and air mass meter on my 240 Volvo). > > When the car is warm and closed-loop mode is functioning properly, the > signal at the test port is a time-varying voltage related to the > signal produced by the O2 sensor. The air-mass-meter mixture screw > can be set so that the test point voltage bounces back and forth > regularly between approx 0 volts and approx 4 volts. > > When the car is cold, the test port signal behaves differently. When > the car is first cranked, the signal pops up to the "high" value ( > approx 4 volts as in closed loop mode) and remains there until the car > starts. After 15-30 seconds the signal falls back to zero; within > five seconds the car will stall. The car seems to restart only when > the signal pops back up to "high", which for some reason does not > happen every time the motor is cranked. > > I just installed new plugs, plug wires, cap, rotor, air filter > thermostat, timing belt, etc. I'm about to change the fuel pump > relays. The air mass meter isn't very old, though this doesn't > necessarily mean anything. Since the car runs great once it starts, I > don't think the air mass meter is at fault. > > > As a second question, does anyone know how to test the air mass meter, > other than the classic "unplug it" strategy? > > Third, would a faulty block temperature sensor prevent the car from > running? > > Thanks > > Mike Skolones Dear Mr Skolones The problem You have described is common for the modell i will sugest You to clean the injectors and check the temperatursensor in the cylinderhead because this sensor is controling the "warm up" (out of closedloop). Best Regards Stefan 18 Years tuning Volvos www.bsrab.se stefan.olsson@xxx.se ------------------------------ From: Jim Davies Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re:Weld "l"'s On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, David W. Taylor wrote: > I called around local and the base suppliers are > piping suppliers. (IE: Famillion.)Here in Portland oregon. > > By way of example: > > 90Deg 1" $4 > 90Deg 1.5" $6 > 45 Deg 1" $3.80 > 45 Deg 1" $5.70 > > These are schedule 80 mild steel I believe. > More than likely they would be schedule 40. S80 is pretty heavy wall, I have never seen anything but s40 is this type of bend. BTW, s40 is the commonest black iron pipe that is seen everywhere. Jim Davies ------------------------------ From: MikeTurner@xxx.com (Mike Turner) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:32:29 -0400 Subject: Re: DIY-EFI Lurkers & furthermore :-) Terry, Yeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk! I think I'm sorry I asked. Seriously, I would be interested in anything you find out about this little beast. Sounds like some interesting engineering went into it. ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V2 #302 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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