DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 3 September 1997 Volume 02 : Number 303 In this issue: need a PROM programmer Re: Renault FI? RE: Weld-L's Re: Daihatsu EFI Re: toyota injectors RE: need a PROM programmer Re: DIY-EFI Lurkers & furthermore :-) Re: need a PROM programmer Re: Lighten up -Re: non-EFI crap Re: Daihatsu EFI Re: need a PROM programmer Re: toyota injectors Re: Renault FI? Re: O2 sensor 4wire Programmer Re: Weld-L's P4 ECM-SWITCHING QUESTION Re: Weld-L's Re:Weld "l"'s Re: Weld-L's Re: Weld-L's Re: Weld-L's Re: Weld-L's See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd King Date: Tue, 02 Sep 97 13:41:00 PDT Subject: need a PROM programmer I'm looking to buy a p-port PROM programmer; I'm currently considering the Intronics pocket programmer @xxx. Anyone have any comments/recommendations? I need portability as I want to program 2732 PROMs at the track. I don't want to spend alot of bucks either. I currently have a Needham's PB10 ISA slot device, but that's not really portable :-) Thanks for any input on this; I know that many of you folks have mucho experience along these lines. Also, I've made progress on the Buick turbo; recall that last time I had just installed ported heads, etc with an xperimental cam that did not work well. Plus it turned out I had some split intake gaskets as well due to using RTV on the back side of FelPro "print-o-seal" style gaskets. Car only went 12.2 (first outing) and was very problematic, even with C16 fuel. Anyway, I've since installed a very mild Comp Cams 252H and fixed the teething problems. Vacuum at idle (800rpm) is now 18" Hg and absolutely rock steady (I thought the gauge was malfunctioning it is so steady!) Now this weekend I installed a "Very Windy" TE63 turbo w/ .82 ar exh (it's Big ;-) along with a stout Precision Turbo & Engine front mount intercooler with huge 4" thick core, 3" mandrel bent super lightweight aluminum pipes, etc (not to mention the wallet is alot lighter now too). Geezus- I never thought I'd have a street car that would leave black stripes and tire smoke on the freeway from dropping the hammer at 65 mph. What a moose! It must be a real trip for the drivers behind me to see the car do a powerslide on the highway... What fun! Now to clean out those shorts... :-) I'm going to try and hit the 1/8 mi event this Wed eve at the local drags. It oughta really run well; I hope for some mid/low 7's at 95+ (1/8th mi) through the muffs for this first (tentative) outing. What's really amazing is the streetability; the car is running better now from a driveability standpoint than it did stock, with all the great mpg intact, etc. Todd todd_king@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Chris Morriss Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:06:05 +0100 Subject: Re: Renault FI? In message <199709021515.KAA13633@xxx.com>, Mark Taschek writes > >> >AMC / RENIX system - a unit all it's own. I was looking for my manual- seam >> >to have misplaced it >> > >> I don't know about over in the US, but in the UK and mainland Europe >> Renault used the Renix multiport injection on the 2.2 litre engine used >> on the Renault 25. I think that the turbo versions of the Renault V6 >> used Renix as well. (The non-turbo versions used K-jetronic) >> -- >> Chris Morriss >> > >//////////////////////// > >Chris are you living in the UK and what else do you know about the >Renix multiport box?? and are there any contacks there that you know of?? > >Mark Taschek >mtaschek@xxx.com I don't know the box at all unfortunately. I have a carb Renault Alpine GTA with the 2.8L V6 and am intending to convert it to EFI. I need a source for the weld-in injector mounts in the UK so that I can modify the very free flowing inlet manifold that Renault used on the V6 engines that were equipped with K-jetronic injection. Or has somebody on this list got an EFI manifold for the Renault V6 that they could sell me? The breakers yards don't seem to have any. There is a chapter on Renix in Jan Norbye's book on the history of fuel injection. - -- Chris Morriss ------------------------------ From: Preferred Customer Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:12:22 -0700 Subject: RE: Weld-L's - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB7B2.BB9FB940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable - ---------- From: Brock and Jennifer Fraser[SMTP:fraser@xxx.net] Sent: Sunday, September 01, 1996 8:52 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Weld-L's >You can buy pipe pieces called "Weld-L's" from hydraulic shops. >Heavy wall tubing pieces bent into 45,90,180 degree bends. > >They come in stainless if desired. I havn't used them yet but >A guy at one of the turbo engineering outfits recomended=20 >them to me for building a custom exhaust to feed a turbo. mild then building the permanant unit in stainless. > >BTW they are CAST not tubing. SO they are fairly beefy. Does anybody have a source for these "weld-L's"? I've called the local hydraulic supply houses and they don't have a clue what I'm talking = about. I've done a web-search as well, but come up empty, only to find = thin-wall tubing. Either stainless or "mild" would be great for my exhaust plumbing application. I'd like something that's about 1.5" I.D. I don't know = what kind of wall thicknesses we are talking about for these "weld-L's"... Thank you, Brock Fraser fraser@xxx.net I have heard them called weld pipe and the ones that are bent are called = bends a plumbing supply will have them but they are in pipe sizes ex. 1/8 inch = pipe is like 1/2! what I'm saying or trying to is you have to have know = the ID (inside diameter)you need then they can match it up schedule 5 10 = 40 80 the larger the schedule the smaller the ID for the size of pipe i = can give you a contact if you still can't find them Duane Reed duanered@xxx.net - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB7B2.BB9FB940 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig4WAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AGQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AFNNVFAAZGl5X2VmaUBj b3Vsb21iLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACMA AABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgAB MAEAAAAlAAAAJ2RpeV9lZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAA KAAAAFNNVFA6RElZX0VGSUBDT1VMT01CLkVORy5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA9xNAQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgB BIABAA0AAABSRTogV2VsZC1MJ3MAkAMBBYADAA4AAADNBwkAAgAPAAwAFgACABIBASCAAwAOAAAA zQcJAAIADwAAAB4AAgAOAQEJgAEAIQAAAEU0QjE2NzA3QTQyM0QxMTFCQjY4NjgwMDA2QzEwMDAw AMsGAQOQBgC4BgAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AKApnUnt t7wBHgBwAAEAAAANAAAAUkU6IFdlbGQtTCdzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8t+1JlQdnseUjpBHR u2hoAAbBAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAVAAAAZHVhbmVyZWRAcGFjYmVs bC5uZXQAAAAAAwAGEFmZzBYDAAcQtQQAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAC0tLS0tLS0tLS1GUk9NOkJST0NL QU5ESkVOTklGRVJGUkFTRVJTTVRQOkZSQVNFUkBORVRURU5ORVRTRU5UOlNVTkRBWSxTRVBURU1C RVIwMSwxOTk2ODo1MlBNVE86RElZRUYAAAAAAgEJEAEAAABDBQAAPwUAADwJAABMWkZ1qfIEJ/8A CgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzdwLkBxMC gH0KgAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFE1C/JjAEAgCoUKi2xpCDE4MALRaS0x NJ40DfAM0BzTC1kxNgqg6wNgE9BjBUAtHvcKhx2r6wwwHnZGA2E6H/4edgyCRCBCA2BjayAAcGRs IEoJ8AMAZgSQIYFhARGwcltTTVRQOjMDUCUCQG4RwBPQbi79JhFdH58grQZgAjAh3yLrxFN1JCBh eSwGUQUwJRPgYiSxMDErQDE5QDk2IDg6NRHgUGZNJs8grVRvKQ8i62RIaXlfDcBpQAWgdQsVoAbQ LgnwZy5vaGhpby0TwGET0DHwZMZ1LQ8n3nViah6xLy8BIutXZWxkLUwn5nMa/xwDMzYddxpFHnYk PlkIYCBjA5Fideh5IHAFIGU7sQWQB5FJO0BsbAmAICI3diLCIANSIGh5ZCTwMaAAaWMgc2hvcHOC LgqFPkhlYXY7oLJ3PJEgdDUwC4BnPAYLK8ACMCALgHRvIDRgNSw5MCwcUTDwZRsJwkDyZD7YPvZU aGX/O6AFoAeAQUE+gAGQC4A8sB8EEQaQQjEAkBYRLiBJ0z3gP5BuJwVAdRGwJDC2dEQgPdB5EcA7 cXQ+9thBIGc7kTKwIAIgO/Cub0WQRyFAEXIG4CAyAT8LgAngBRBAYQhgADBpdP8EIBYQRGIkIDzB PvZHI0Fxf0SBAhAFwDuAAxAxAEBhYc87MEbQQXA90GV4EYBOIf9MsiSgPMFN8EmjPuZM4E2B30cS O2JNhUliO+ByA4EAcB9GsQMAQTJE2EMPQlRXB0cSSKEWECBDQVNUnCBuHpBAFUYgU09U6HJmC3By bDugK8ANwHmzPuYKhURvB5EAcHkG4N5kO6BGYTvwTfBzCGE8QK9NE0chEbA84Hc9Fj9QYPxJJ1nx PIVJYhWgPIEKhfk9+XVwC1BZsQhgEbBZMrtHAzugZAIgRqFZ1WMKQb8/wBGABUBcIEyhB0BrTbN/ BuBHwD7mXCNf8VoCW2BidzKAP4BacGgkAAQgW2Fs3ytAR7FEVF6QSfBtBTArMb8CIFeRTwILgEcC C4AtP9L3CoVWFTf8RUsARCAFwETo7QWxIlCCPYB3MZEkMCvA70hwFhBIwU0ibTugToYLUO51BtBA UQqFYV6hPmAysN8yYCZgXAIkMBwwazvwWkB/B4Bm8lGSMrA30GIULDAuYjU9gEkuRG5yX+Vr/1XQ B+BhEgqFYdEkMEkxP9T/MlAj4CYQBBAHkVtgVTNhq/tarz1SLnbwN/xEEABwI/D6eQhgLDf8I7Qk 5AqFJa//My0aTxrmRkM78EQgCxFHFP88hVtiO7RfZUjiBCBv0lUz/0EDVUI8hUKzOY8elDhvOX7/ fSJN8GzWXnYD8D/xWdNHI99k8lT3RLE7wwCQegeRToDxRiAxLzhBQWQxO8MEANNu1IrgMiFhCHMr IEqD/XXRco1DQXGLwXhhiEVBgIdZ03HTSVNJRCAoC4C3AJANsDDxYW9RBJApjpLfSkFQtVTzO0IA wHRkMVKxn2WBBPBEIDMAPLAgNSwwv0IgHPAsgEIgXOMKwGcksf9JYpO3laMAwDyhlYSQQXW1/4oz SSKLdDszSiBZ8Y6STfH/AiEA0EExRZCOkhPAiBI7QW9GoWalE+BYLXUAcDvwUq9PQjMAnUEWEUAK sGMrwF88oCZyhbwa5hUxAKCwAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwQD/OoOu3vAFAAAgwQD/OoOu3 vAEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAB0o - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB7B2.BB9FB940-- ------------------------------ From: Jim Davies Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:09:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Daihatsu EFI On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Webb wrote: > I just got ahold of a nice little car for basically free (traded > for it). It is a Daihatsu Charade (88). The problem was that it > bent a valve when it broke a timing belt. The previous owner had ^^^^^^^ Only one? Check closely. Jim Davies ------------------------------ From: David Chambers Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 08:43:22 +1000 Subject: Re: toyota injectors swagaero wrote: > > David Chambers wrote: > > > > Hi, I am building a computer to run a friends 20 valve 4AGE toyota motor > > in a race car. The question i have is does any one know the driving > > requirements for the injectors on this motor. All i know at this stage > > is that they measure 34 ohms coil resistance. I am hoping that these are > > high impedance injectors and can be all wired in parallel and fired by > > one FET to ground. Also does any one know anything about how the > > variable valve timing works on this motor. > > Thanks > > David Chambers > > Yes they will fire in parallel but it better be a big heat sunk fet. > > Steve > -- > > ----|------||------|---- > --|------[]------|-- > 0/ \0 > > www.flash.net/~swagaero I don't think the fet will get that hot. My calculations show. 14 volts/34 ohms * 4 injectors = 1.65 amps. 1.65 amps ^ 2 * FET Rds of 0.077 ohms = 0.21 watts junction to ambient temp rise is 80 deg C/ watt therefore Trise = 16.8 deg C or total T of max 61.8 degC at 45C ambient. Am i missing something here? David ------------------------------ From: Kevin Timmerman Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:58:39 -0400 Subject: RE: need a PROM programmer On Tuesday, September 02, 1997 4:41 PM, Todd King [SMTP:Todd_King@xxx.com] wrote: > I'm looking to buy a p-port PROM programmer; I'm currently considering > the Intronics pocket programmer @xxx. Anyone have any > comments/recommendations? I need portability as I want to program 2732 I have been using this programmer for many years with several notebooks from 386SX/16 to Pentium 133. I have never had any problems with it. The DOS based software is crude, but it will run under Windows 3.1 and 95. I recommend it. Kevin Timmerman "RoadKill on the InfoBahn" '90 Blue Corrado mailto:opossum@xxx.org '85 Grey Golf II http://www.macatawa.org/~opossum ------------------------------ From: Terry Martin Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:40:28 -0700 Subject: Re: DIY-EFI Lurkers & furthermore :-) Mike Turner wrote: > > Terry, > Yeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk! I think I'm sorry I asked. Seriously, I would be interested in anything you find out about this little > beast. Sounds like some interesting engineering went into it. It did, and it's coming out too :-) BTW, if anybody wants to know objectively what went on in the unfortunate death of Princess "Di" and her equally important companions, ask the DERM. :-{ Terry ------------------------------ From: Mark Romans Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:01:26 -0700 Subject: Re: need a PROM programmer Hi Todd; I have a Needhams EMP10 and it works great. A little more $ than the one you listed, but sometimes you get what you pay for. Mark. ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:09:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Lighten up -Re: non-EFI crap Joseph A. Zammit wrote: > > Hey > I am doing some research about Eledtronic fuel injection systems. Do > you know of some web addresses that can give me some information ? > > Thank you for your help > > Joseph A. Zammit > jozamm@xxx.net TA DAAAAAA - -- ----|------||------|---- --|------[]------|-- 0/ \0 www.flash.net/~swagaero ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:15:49 -0700 Subject: Re: Daihatsu EFI Webb wrote: > > I just got ahold of a nice little car for basically free (traded > for it). It is a Daihatsu Charade (88). The problem was that it > bent a valve when it broke a timing belt. The previous owner had > pulled the head, then decided he didn't know what he was doing > (he did a good job of saving parts) > > I got the factory manual (best I've ever seen), and my impression > is that the little 3 cylinder, MPFI is very impressive. The > controller is made by "Denso" and controls spark as well as EFI. > > Everything is simple, easy to find, work on, and understand. > There is no noticable internal wear even though it has over 100K. > > I notice that this really neat EFI unit is batch fire. I had > assumed that commercial units would go to the trouble to do > sequential. What percentage do, and how much advantage is it? > > Does anyone know anything about this unusual model (they seem to > be popular in Australia)? Designed by Suzuki Badged under several names GEO, SUZUKI, DIAH WHATEVER I CAN'T SPEAK JAPENESE less then 15% have sequntial. Great engine I fly with one. Steve - -- ----|------||------|---- --|------[]------|-- 0/ \0 www.flash.net/~swagaero ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:17:35 -0700 Subject: Re: need a PROM programmer Todd King wrote: > > I'm looking to buy a p-port PROM programmer; I'm currently considering > the Intronics pocket programmer @xxx. Anyone have any > comments/recommendations? I need portability as I want to program 2732 > PROMs at the track. I don't want to spend alot of bucks either. I > currently have a Needham's PB10 ISA slot device, but that's not really > portable :-) Thanks for any input on this; I know that many of you > folks have mucho experience along these lines. Also, I've made > progress on the Buick turbo; recall that last time I had just > installed ported heads, etc with an xperimental cam that did not work > well. Plus it turned out I had some split intake gaskets as well due > to using RTV on the back side of FelPro "print-o-seal" style gaskets. > Car only went 12.2 (first outing) and was very problematic, even with > C16 fuel. Anyway, I've since installed a very mild Comp Cams 252H and > fixed the teething problems. Vacuum at idle (800rpm) is now 18" Hg and > absolutely rock steady (I thought the gauge was malfunctioning it is > so steady!) Now this weekend I installed a "Very Windy" TE63 turbo w/ > .82 ar exh (it's Big ;-) along with a stout Precision Turbo & Engine > front mount intercooler with huge 4" thick core, 3" mandrel bent super > lightweight aluminum pipes, etc (not to mention the wallet is alot > lighter now too). Geezus- I never thought I'd have a street car that > would leave black stripes and tire smoke on the freeway from dropping > the hammer at 65 mph. What a moose! It must be a real trip for the > drivers behind me to see the car do a powerslide on the highway... > What fun! Now to clean out those shorts... :-) I'm going to try and > hit the 1/8 mi event this Wed eve at the local drags. It oughta really > run well; I hope for some mid/low 7's at 95+ (1/8th mi) through the > muffs for this first (tentative) outing. What's really amazing is the > streetability; the car is running better now from a driveability > standpoint than it did stock, with all the great mpg intact, etc. > > Todd todd_king@xxx.com Works good except if you run into bad eproms it wipes out gates and drivers but they fix it till they get it rite. Steve - -- ----|------||------|---- --|------[]------|-- 0/ \0 www.flash.net/~swagaero ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:21:36 -0700 Subject: Re: toyota injectors David Chambers wrote: > > swagaero wrote: > > > > David Chambers wrote: > > > > > > Hi, I am building a computer to run a friends 20 valve 4AGE toyota motor > > > in a race car. The question i have is does any one know the driving > > > requirements for the injectors on this motor. All i know at this stage > > > is that they measure 34 ohms coil resistance. I am hoping that these are > > > high impedance injectors and can be all wired in parallel and fired by > > > one FET to ground. Also does any one know anything about how the > > > variable valve timing works on this motor. > > > Thanks > > > David Chambers > > > > Yes they will fire in parallel but it better be a big heat sunk fet. > > > > Steve > > -- > > > > ----|------||------|---- > > --|------[]------|-- > > 0/ \0 > > > > www.flash.net/~swagaero > I don't think the fet will get that hot. My calculations show. > 14 volts/34 ohms * 4 injectors = 1.65 amps. > 1.65 amps ^ 2 * FET Rds of 0.077 ohms = 0.21 watts > junction to ambient temp rise is 80 deg C/ watt > therefore Trise = 16.8 deg C or total T of max 61.8 degC at 45C > ambient. > Am i missing something here? > David Latch up at startup is *2 and you have the average only at low rpm - -- ----|------||------|---- --|------[]------|-- 0/ \0 www.flash.net/~swagaero ------------------------------ From: "WILMAN" Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:48:44 +0800 Subject: Re: Renault FI? - ---------- > From: Chris Morriss > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: Renault FI? > Date: Wednesday, September 03, 1997 3:06 AM > > In message <199709021515.KAA13633@xxx.com>, Mark Taschek > writes > > > >> >AMC / RENIX system - a unit all it's own. I was looking for my manual- seam > >> >to have misplaced it > >> > > >> I don't know about over in the US, but in the UK and mainland Europe > >> Renault used the Renix multiport injection on the 2.2 litre engine used > >> on the Renault 25. I think that the turbo versions of the Renault V6 > >> used Renix as well. (The non-turbo versions used K-jetronic) > >> -- > >> Chris Morriss > >> > > > >//////////////////////// > > > >Chris are you living in the UK and what else do you know about the > >Renix multiport box?? and are there any contacks there that you know of?? > > > >Mark Taschek > >mtaschek@xxx.com > > I don't know the box at all unfortunately. I have a carb Renault Alpine > GTA with the 2.8L V6 and am intending to convert it to EFI. I need a > source for the weld-in injector mounts in the UK so that I can modify > the very free flowing inlet manifold that Renault used on the V6 engines > that were equipped with K-jetronic injection. Or has somebody on this > list got an EFI manifold for the Renault V6 that they could sell me? > The breakers yards don't seem to have any. > Look for a Peugeot 605 3.0 V6. There should be plenty in the U.K. > There is a chapter on Renix in Jan Norbye's book on the history of fuel > injection. > -- > Chris Morriss ------------------------------ From: John O Hornfeck Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 21:34:24 -0700 Subject: Re: O2 sensor 4wire Seth wrote: > > On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, John O Hornfeck wrote: > > > I saw that someone mentioned a Ford 4 wire O2 sensor. > > Is there any sensors/brands that would offer me an alternative to the > > Toyota 4 wire sensor I have to replace this week? > > Thank you > > > > John O > > > > > My recollection is that a 4 wire is power and ground for the heater , > groundfor the sensor, in case the exhaust system is "floating" and the > signal for the sensor signal. A well grounded 3 wire should work, or use > the sensor ground to ground the exhaust. > > Just an idea > > Seth Thanks for the reply John O ------------------------------ From: Jennifer Rose Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:33:12 -0700 Subject: Programmer Hi Todd The pocket pro from intronics works very well- their software leaves is on the simplistic side. Use it with home PC pentium 133\win95 and old 286\dos laptop equally well. Still learning what all the code does in tpi eprom . Recommend it to any wanting a nice programmer. Vance ------------------------------ From: Frank F Parker Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:21:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Weld-L's > >> Does anybody have a source for these "weld-L's"? I've called the local > >> hydraulic supply houses and they don't have a clue what I'm talking about. > >> I've done a web-search as well, but come up empty, only to find thin-wall > >> tubing. > >> > Thanks for the feedback, and if anyone else has any leads, please let me know. > > Brock Fraser > fraser@xxx.net > Brock, I looked them up in McMaster Carr catalog, page1433 of catalog #98, phone # 708-833-0300, Chicago; IL : 304 Stainless, 1 1/2 " ips, schedule 40, 90deg elbow, $16 Also available in schedule 5,10, and 80 80 is thicker. Meet ASTM std A-403/A These are also available in mild steel. I have built sevsral turbo manifolds using them. Work very well. Regards, Frank Parker ------------------------------ From: Jennifer Rose Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 20:44:49 -0700 Subject: P4 ECM-SWITCHING QUESTION Hi All Wanted to find out if any knows if the 165 ecm pin c9 is the same as Justin's 808? My shop manual shows pin c9 as "not used" on the 165 ecm. To add some info - the 730 memcal already has a 27c256 prom in it. Got one from friends tpi install-it was from 88 caviler v-6. Read the prom - it only had code at 4000-7fff, first part was completely blank. The two memcals are physically the same. Hate to solder in new proms to memcal :(. Hope the KISS method will work for 165. Thanks Vance ------------------------------ From: Seth Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Weld-L's On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, Brock and Jennifer Fraser wrote: > >> > >> Does anybody have a source for these "weld-L's"? I've called the local > >> hydraulic supply houses and they don't have a clue what I'm talking about. > >> I've done a web-search as well, but come up empty, only to find thin-wall > >> tubing. > >> > >> Either stainless or "mild" would be great for my exhaust plumbing > >> application. I'd like something that's about 1.5" I.D. I don't know what > >> kind of wall thicknesses we are talking about for these "weld-L's"... > >> > > > >Did you try Ed's? > > > No, but I did look in their catalog and it appears that they only carry > "tubing" of the thin-wall variety. When the person on this list mentioned > the thick sections of the weld-L's it sounded like a really nice building > block to make a turbocharger manifold from. > > The other exhaust places I have catalogs for are: Burns, Stahl, and > Stainless Specialties. Burns has cast collectors from time to time, but > not any "bends". > > Thanks for the feedback, and if anyone else has any leads, please let me know. > > Brock Fraser > fraser@xxx.net > I fabbed a turbo manifold out of ASTM A-106 mandrel bends (probably the aforementioned weld "L"'s) I used 1-1/4 nominal size, heavy wall. 0.160" wall with chamfered ends for welding. collector was 2" x-heavy at 0.220" wall. Welds nicely, quite clean. ASTM A-106 is a low alloy steel as far as I can tell. I couldn't afford the stainless, not to mention the additional fabrication and welding issues. THe 1-1/4 nominal size is actually closer to 1.4 inches if I remember correctly, and the ID and OD vary with the "weight" for the same nominal size. Seth Allen ------------------------------ From: Seth Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re:Weld "l"'s On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Jim Davies wrote: > > > On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, David W. Taylor wrote: > > > I called around local and the base suppliers are > > piping suppliers. (IE: Famillion.)Here in Portland oregon. > > > > By way of example: > > > > 90Deg 1" $4 > > 90Deg 1.5" $6 > > 45 Deg 1" $3.80 > > 45 Deg 1" $5.70 > > > > These are schedule 80 mild steel I believe. > > > More than likely they would be schedule 40. S80 is pretty heavy wall, I > have never seen anything but s40 is this type of bend. BTW, s40 is the > commonest black iron pipe that is seen everywhere. > > Jim Davies > > > To further my previous post- I bought heavy (shedule 80) bends in a very tight radius mandrel bend, on the order of 2.5 inch radius to centerline of pipe. The local pipe shop didn't wan't to do cash transactions ( read - not enough money) so they let me donate $20 to the donut fund for 4 "l"s and about 4 feet of schedule 160 remnant pipe. Seth Allen ------------------------------ From: Seth Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Weld-L's On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Frank F Parker wrote: > > >> Does anybody have a source for these "weld-L's"? I've called the local > > >> hydraulic supply houses and they don't have a clue what I'm talking about. > > >> I've done a web-search as well, but come up empty, only to find thin-wall > > >> tubing. > > >> > > Thanks for the feedback, and if anyone else has any leads, please let me know. > > > > Brock Fraser > > fraser@xxx.net > > > Brock, > > I looked them up in McMaster Carr catalog, page1433 of catalog #98, > phone # 708-833-0300, Chicago; IL : > > 304 Stainless, 1 1/2 " ips, schedule 40, 90deg elbow, $16 > Also available in schedule 5,10, and 80 > > 80 is thicker. Meet ASTM std A-403/A > > These are also available in mild steel. I have built sevsral turbo > manifolds using them. Work very well. > > Regards, > > Frank Parker > > > Just a note of caution- the tubing shoud be 304L not just 304, for usage at elevated temp. Straight 304 has too much carbon and sensitizes. The chromium in the stainless forms chromium carbide, and you get mild steel mixed with stainless and carbides. Ther result can corrrode faster than mild steel. The temp rande to stay away from is from 800F to say 1400F ( quoting from memory here) this is about the temp of exhaust gasses and probably the manifold. Carefully welded 304L has less carbon and none introduced by welding and then doesn't corrode in this fashion. This phenomenon is a contributor to the early decomissioning of some nuclear reactors. Don't want to scare anyone, just make sure it is "L" grade stainless ( or 321 or 347) that you weld on for high temp use. Seth Allen ------------------------------ From: Steve Lamb Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:41:40 +1000 Subject: Re: Weld-L's >Don't want to scare anyone, just make sure it is "L" grade stainless ( or >321 or 347) that you weld on for high temp use. 316L would be more than adequate for this purpose, and probably far more common than 304L. There's no need to go to the stabilised versions for the application discussed here. Steve Lamb Department of Defence, DSTO Aeronautical and Maritime Research Laboratory 506 Lorimer Street Fishermans Bend VIC 3207 Australia Tel: +61 3 9626 7525 Fax: +61 3 9626 7089 IZCC #180 ------------------------------ From: Johnny Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:57:20 -0700 Subject: Re: Weld-L's Steve Lamb wrote: > > >Don't want to scare anyone, just make sure it is "L" grade stainless ( or > >321 or 347) that you weld on for high temp use. > > 316L would be more than adequate for this purpose, and probably far more > common than 304L. There's no need to go to the stabilised versions for the > application discussed here. We have a metalurgist on the list... finally. What can you tell me about 400 series stainless? - -j- ------------------------------ From: Steve Lamb Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:30:12 +1000 Subject: Re: Weld-L's >We have a metalurgist on the list... finally. What can you tell me about >400 series stainless? I've been here quite a long time actually, but generally kept quiet mainly because this is an EFI discussion group, but I will try to help people or point them in the right direction 'off-line'. Mail me direct if you have a specific question about the 400 series (but generally these are the martensitic/ferritic grades with the martensitic being the 'hardenable' version - eg type 410 - ; they are used for steam valves, bolts, furnace parts, etc, etc.; not recommended to be welded due to a high risk of cracking in the heat affected zone[HAZ]) Cheers Steve Lamb Department of Defence, DSTO Aeronautical and Maritime Research Laboratory 506 Lorimer Street Fishermans Bend VIC 3207 Australia Tel: +61 3 9626 7525 Fax: +61 3 9626 7089 IZCC #180 ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V2 #303 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".