DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, 4 September 1997 Volume 02 : Number 304 In this issue: Re: Ignition timing set-up Conversion of FI Hyundai Accent to Propane. test test. Re: Weld-L's Re: test O2 sensor grounding; was O2 sensor 4wire Re: P4 ECM-SWITCHING QUESTION Re: need a PROM programmer multiple posts apologies Re: injection timing fluorescent displays Need Mazda injector plugs Re: valve needed Re: test Knock Knock Re: Bosch LH-Jet 2 /'84 Volvo troubles electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays Injectors resistance Re: Knock Knock Re: injection timing Re: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays Re: valve needed Re: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays Re: Injectors resistance Knock Knock Re: Knock Knock Re: injection timing Re: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays BMW late 320 / early 318 with MSD 6A Re: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays Re: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays Re: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays Re: Injectors resistance EBC/AIC? Re: Need Mazda injector plugs Looking to EFI the ol' Tin Lizzy Water Injection Re: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays Re: Weld-L's Re: EBC/AIC? Re: Ignition timing set-up See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "B.E. Herron" Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 02:38:54 -0800 Subject: Re: Ignition timing set-up At 04:55 PM 9/1/97 -0700, you wrote: >B.E. Herron wrote: > >> >> Mathew is correct. Idle advance (mechanical only) should be 10 to 12 >> degrees, no more. Idle advance (machanical+vacuum)) should be 20 to 25 >> degrees. Total advance (mechanical) can be anywhere between 30 and 36 >> degrees for max power. Your vacuum canister should be set to give total >> advance (machanical+vacuum) in the same range for total mechanical advance >> or detonation results. > >I'm not sure if I get this last statement. First of all, since manifold >pressure equals atmospheric pressure when at WOT, there is no vacuum >advance involved in total advance. What do you mean when you say "in the >same range for total mechanical advance"? Idle advance, or static >advance is just a function of where that happens to end up after you set >your total advance. Low and midrange rpm mechanical advance is just a >function of how much advance curve rate you can get away with >programming in at WOT before detonation, on the way to your total >advance at max rpm/max power. Vacuum advance setting is just a function >of how much part throttle advance you can get away with programming in >after you have set your total advance and mechanical advance curve, >without detonation. > >-j- > I should have said "Your vacuum canister should be set to give total advance (machanical+vacuum)" at 3000 rpm". You're right, at WOT, there is no vacuum signal, but at the above rpm there is. The statement was made since he is using an adjustable vacuum canister and if too much advance is dialed in, his timing at 3000 could be in the 40's before he knows it. Not a good situation if accel is part throttle and not full throttle. Bradley E. Herron '66 Mustang Fastback '73 Camaro RS ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:14:00 -0500 Subject: Conversion of FI Hyundai Accent to Propane. - -> The "Turbo Pinto SOHC 4" was available as a 2.3L in the Merkur over - -> here in the States. I dunno how common that car was in Europe, but The 2000cc motor introduced in 1970 was an all-German design, designed for the US Pinto, available in the US in the Capri and Pinto from 1970 to 1974. It was replaced in the USA by the larger and *much* heavier 2.3 "Lima" four, while Europe continued to get the "Pinto" motor in 1300, 1600, and 2000cc variants. In the US, the "Lima" motor was downsized to 2000cc and used in some small pickup trucks, They are entirely different motors with no interchangeable parts. Well, 2000s used in Pintos had Motorcraft distributors (Capris had Bosch), and the distributor caps would interchange with the first few years of the 2300... - -> --Boundary (ID Pj8n8eM77zXgWCUPc8YPbw) - -> Content-type: application/ms-tnef - -> Content-transfer-encoding: base64 - -> - ->eJ8+IhUSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS - ->b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQmAAQAhAAAAMjYwOTE2NTczMzIxRDExMUIyOTcwODAwMk - ->NDQAzQYBBYADAA4AAADNBwkAAgAOABMAIQACACMBASCAAwAOAAAAzQcJAAIADgATACEAAg - ->kAYAnAEAAAEAAAANAAAAAwAAMAAAAAALAA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAZQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvq - ->AN0BD1QCAAAAACdkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1JwBTTVRQAG - ->ZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUAAAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAA - ->AQAAACMAAABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AAACAfYPAQAAAA ... Oh yeah? You want to step out in the alley and discuss that? ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 04:48:25 -0700 Subject: test this is a test ----|------||------|---- --|------[]------|-- 0/ \0 www.flash.net/~swagaero ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 05:08:18 -0700 Subject: test. this is a test ----|------||------|---- --|------[]------|-- 0/ \0 www.flash.net/~swagaero ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 07:15:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Weld-L's >I fabbed a turbo manifold out of ASTM A-106 mandrel bends (probably the >aforementioned weld "L"'s) I used 1-1/4 nominal size, heavy wall. 0.160" >wall with chamfered ends for welding. collector was 2" x-heavy at 0.220" >wall. Welds nicely, quite clean. ASTM A-106 is a low alloy steel as far >as I can tell. I couldn't afford the stainless, not to mention the >additional fabrication and welding issues. THe 1-1/4 nominal size is >actually closer to 1.4 inches if I remember correctly, and the ID and OD >vary with the "weight" for the same nominal size. just had the dual exhaust system in my Bronco re-done -- they used a torch and rod (had a MIG rig, but didn't use it) ... the guy said it was basically brazing rod so ..... has anyone tried brazing or silver soldering ??? I'd think the brazing would hold up quite well but would suspect the silver solder -- esp if in a bend on the outer curve where it gets the direct blast from the exhaust. The advantage of the silver solder is you can work with stainless (don't need heli-arc) Tom Cloud They say the mind is the first thing to go ... and I can't remember the second ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 07:42:41 -0500 Subject: Re: test >this is a test > > ----|------||------|---- > --|------[]------|-- > 0/ \0 > okay ..... did we pass ??? 8^) Tom Cloud They say the mind is the first thing to go ... and I can't remember the second ------------------------------ From: Greg Woods Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 07:52:55 -0500 Subject: O2 sensor grounding; was O2 sensor 4wire > > I saw that someone mentioned a Ford 4 wire O2 sensor. > > Is there any sensors/brands that would offer me an alternative to the > > Toyota 4 wire sensor I have to replace this week? > > Thank you > > > My recollection is that a 4 wire is power and ground for the heater , > groundfor the sensor, in case the exhaust system is "floating" and the > signal for the sensor signal. A well grounded 3 wire should work, or use > the sensor ground to ground the exhaust. When I first thought about this thread on 4 wire EGO's I thought, "why would you need that? just use the exhaust as ground" Then I got to thinking about how my exhaust is grounded (not good) and I'm thinking maybe I should convert my retrofitted GM TBI single wire O2 sensor to a multi wire sensor with a dedicated ground (I have been getting some intermittant "02 sensor faulty" errors from my ECM, but I thought it was just freakin out). So let me ask this stupid question: does this ford sensor puts out the same 0 to ~1V signal as the GM? Does GM not make a multi-wire sensor? What is the cost of the ford sensor? oh and one last stupid question: do all injectors use the 18 X 1.5mm thread? TIA. and BTW, even with the off topic messages, I love this list! Greg Woods gwoods@xxx.com austin, tx 86 cherokee w/GM TBI ------------------------------ From: Justin Albury Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 23:10:40 +1000 Subject: Re: P4 ECM-SWITCHING QUESTION hi vance & others on the 808 the shop manual also says that c9 isnt used ......but the lpg manual tells me another story if you have code from 4000 - 7fff then one might think that maybe (????) it defaults to the lower half of the chip if 12+ isnt at c9?????? maybe maybe not? try putting a different file in from 0000 - 3fff and monitor it with diacom or something like diacom while you put 12+ to c9 ....???? just a thought.... Justin Jennifer Rose wrote: > Hi All > > Wanted to find out if any knows if the 165 ecm pin c9 is the same as > Justin's 808? My shop manual shows pin c9 as "not used" on the 165 ecm. To > add some info - the 730 memcal already has a 27c256 prom in it. Got one > from friends tpi install-it was from 88 caviler v-6. Read the prom - it > only had code at 4000-7fff, first part was completely blank. The two > memcals are physically the same. Hate to solder in new proms to memcal :(. > Hope the KISS method will work for 165. > > Thanks Vance ------------------------------ From: MikeTurner@xxx.com (Mike Turner) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 09:15:07 -0400 Subject: Re: need a PROM programmer I have used use Needham's EMP20 for quite a while. Even the NT drivers work now. A bit pricey for home but has yet to fail me. ------------------------------ From: Greg Woods Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:17:54 -0500 Subject: multiple posts apologies sorry about the multiple posts of my last message guys (and gals). Everytime I sent the message I got a reply saying that the message was undeliverable, so I'd send it again. I receive the list in digest form, and when I received the digest I see several postings of my message, oops. Anyway, I've never received this message before so somethin must be broke on my end or the other. Greg woods gwoods@xxx.com austin, tx ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.com (dzorde) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: injection timing Sorry its a bit late, but there has been a lot of mail lately to go through. Anyway here goes, what's an air intake pop off valve ? and what cars use them ? I have already cracked the ducting on my air intake near the throttle body due to backfires. Mind you it'll only backfire if you get too excited when the car is cold and the revs are too low, but this may be worth looking at for other cars. Dan dzorde@xxx.com >(BTW, I also have the air-intake pop off valve to >keep the rare backfire on VERY cold mornings from blowing up my airbox). > >Just a few, but sometimes worthless, thoughts... >Stephen Dubovsky > > ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:39:36 -0500 Subject: fluorescent displays anyone know anything about fluorescent displays ?? I'd like to hear from anyone who has used them .... where to get, what are the hassles involved in using them, etc Tom Cloud All generalizations are false (there are NO absolutes) ------------------------------ From: Tuck Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 09:47:41 -0400 Subject: Need Mazda injector plugs I need to replace a few of the injector harness plugs on my 87 RX-7 because the contacts in the plugs are loose and I am getting intermittent contact (VERY noticable when the staged injection fails to turn on the secondaries!) with the injectors. If someone can point me in the right direction for a place to source new plugs that I can splice into the harness, I would greatly appreciate it. Justin "Tuck" Cordesman SOLID BRASS-> All the way is the only way. "On a more personal note, my idea of heaven has always been waking up every morning in the arms of a beautiful buxom blonde." -Tuck (?-), Earth Leader. Lecture to the Huddled Masses, #14 (19xx). ------------------------------ From: clsnyde@xxx.net (Clare Snyder) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:50:10 GMT Subject: Re: valve needed >Clare Snyder wrote: >> The Bosch CIS with Lambda uses a duty valve in the fuel return line (very >>much like an EFI injector) to control lower chamber pressure separate from >>injection system pressure, by bleeding fuel back to the tank. Lower control >>(lower chamber) pressure translates to higher injection volume. Failure of >>this device would cause lean condition, unless it failed in the open (stuck) >>mode. >> >>The later (K-E Jetronic) version uses a balance valve, which is NOT pwm >>controlled but a basic moving coil type analog device, to vary the pressure. >>This unit also has an aluminum fuel distributor housing, rather than the >>cast iron. It is used on the FOX, made in Brazil and imported to north >>america for several years - as well as other models I have not yet identified. > >Other US VW models using KE-Jetronic: Scirocco 16V, GLI16V 1.8L, GTI16V >1.8L, and some of the other A2 models used it I believe. > >>This would be my first choice, if I can aquire one at a reasonable cost in >>the near future. > > It shouldn't be too difficult to get a fuel distributor in good shape from >a salvage yard. I've got a decent bit of info on the differential pressure >regulator used on this system at home. I'll dig it up if you're interested. > >Brad > > > The problem up here is if the engine runs, or may run, they won't sell parts off of it. ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 13:58:59 -0700 Subject: Re: test Tom Cloud wrote: > > >this is a test > > > > ----|------||------|---- > > --|------[]------|-- > > 0/ \0 > > > > okay ..... did we pass ??? > > 8^) > > Tom Cloud > > They say the mind is the first thing to go ... and I can't remember the second You did but my computer at home did not (windows 95 is dying) ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:10:37 -0700 Subject: Knock Knock Attached to this e-mail is a schematic of a visual knock detector. Please do not make copies or post it on another list. You may use this schematic to build one for your own use. Steve Parkman The file is Wordperfect for windows document. ------------------------------ From: Ron Madurski Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:41:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Bosch LH-Jet 2 /'84 Volvo troubles : : Third, would a faulty block temperature sensor prevent the car from : running? You betcha. It could either lean it out or richen the mixture depending on which way it has stuck. : : Thanks : : Mike Skolones : - -- Ron Madurski rmadursk@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:57:19 -0500 Subject: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays >anyone know anything about fluorescent displays ?? I'd like >to hear from anyone who has used them .... where to get, what >are the hassles involved in using them, etc maybe I'm looking for electroluminescent displays ??? I want cockpit readouts -- would like to have the nice displays that are in the radios and clocks -- where and how ?? Tom Cloud All generalizations are false (there are NO absolutes) ------------------------------ From: "alex nicu" Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 08:09:27 PDT Subject: Injectors resistance Does anyone know what is the resistance range for injectors ( common , on the market ) ? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 10:21:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Knock Knock >Attached to this e-mail is a schematic of a visual knock detector. >Please do not make copies or post it on another list. You may use this >schematic to build one for your own use. > >Steve Parkman > > >The file is Wordperfect for windows document. t'weren't no attachment whens't I got it 8^) Tom Cloud All generalizations are false (there are NO absolutes) ------------------------------ From: Wilkrod@xxx.com Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: injection timing Hi Dan, To answer your question pop off valves are simply spring loaded trap doors on the inlet tract. Porsche 911 is the first car that comes to mind which uses them, although I believe they are aftermarket. Positive pressure in the intake plenum caused them to pop open venting the pressure prior to damaging the plenum. I believe they were only required on the early C.I.S. cars, what happened usually was after a cold start the engine was shut down prior to warm up, and then restarted. This resulted in additional fuel from the cold start injector causing an extremly rich mixture which would explode in the air intake plenum. If you are interested I can give you the names of some aftermarket companies which sell a generic valve which can be inserted in a plenum. Regards Jeff ------------------------------ From: Wilkrod@xxx.com Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays Tom, Allied Electronics has flourescent display modules. In addition they carry back-lit LCD modules. Phone No. is 1-800-433-5700. Hope this helps. Regards Jeff ------------------------------ From: sheridan@xxx.com (Brad Sheridan) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:42:42 +0100 Subject: Re: valve needed >>>The later (K-E Jetronic) version uses a balance valve, which is NOT pwm >>>controlled but a basic moving coil type analog device, to vary the pressure. >>>This unit also has an aluminum fuel distributor housing, rather than the >>>cast iron. It is used on the FOX, made in Brazil and imported to north >>>america for several years - as well as other models I have not yet >>>identified. >> >>>This would be my first choice, if I can aquire one at a reasonable cost in >>>the near future. >> >> It shouldn't be too difficult to get a fuel distributor in good shape from >>a salvage yard. I've got a decent bit of info on the differential pressure >>regulator used on this system at home. I'll dig it up if you're interested. >> >> >The problem up here is if the engine runs, or may run, they won't sell parts >off of it. Then I would recommend looking elsewhere :) There's a few VW related sites on the web that have classifieds with parts for sale, although I don't have the addresses handy. There are also a few people who can get you pricing info on good used ones, one would be Virtual World Parts, located in SoCal, I don't have the web address handy but a search for it should find it. Also Adirondack Auto Brokers, located in NY, has a web site, you'll have to search for it too. If you pick up a copy of European Car(magazine), there are quite a few companies that advertise used parts and a re located all over the country. Brad ------------------------------ From: Bruno! Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:48:57 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Tom Cloud wrote: > >anyone know anything about fluorescent displays ?? I'd like > >to hear from anyone who has used them .... where to get, what > >are the hassles involved in using them, etc > > maybe I'm looking for electroluminescent displays ??? > > I want cockpit readouts -- would like to have the nice > displays that are in the radios and clocks -- where and how ?? I haven't used them myself, but i've been told that they require a high (~60v dc) "grid" voltage (you can see a grid if you look closely at a VFD - another TLA :)). If you can get your hands on an old video recorder, which has one of these, and the associated cct diagram would help somewhat too. You could always try a search on the web, there's bound to be something published on this stuff. Good luck, Bruno. (b.marzano@xxx.au) "Don't concentrate on the finger, you will miss all the heavenly glory" ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 11:07:48 -0700 Subject: Re: Injectors resistance alex nicu wrote: > > Does anyone know what is the resistance range for injectors ( common , > on the > market ) ? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 2, 12, 16, 32 ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 11:10:48 -0700 Subject: Knock Knock for youse guys waiting I think the 513K file overwelmed the server I will try again later. Steve ------------------------------ From: Paul Messinger Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 11:14:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Knock Knock swagaero wrote: > > Attached to this e-mail is a schematic of a visual knock detector. > Please do not make copies or post it on another list. You may use this > schematic to build one for your own use. > > Steve Parkman > > The file is Wordperfect for windows document. No attachment on my copy! :-) Paul ------------------------------ From: "Dave J. Andruczyk" Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: injection timing > > I believe they were only required on the early C.I.S. cars, what happened > usually was after a cold start the engine was shut down prior to warm up, and > then restarted. This resulted in additional fuel from the cold start injector > causing an extremly rich mixture which would explode in the air intake > plenum. they are required for backfire protection. The 911 owners tend to have a heavy right foot, and don't like to wait for a full warmup, and thus a quick stab at the petal when the engine was cold is just asking for a backfire, which shatters the intake air box, about a $300 penalty. The pop-off valves save the box, they can be bought from Tweeks, Performance Products. (they are on the web, and easily found ( donno the exact URL) Dave ------------------------------ From: DemonTSi@xxx.com Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:06:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays In a message dated 97-09-03 11:20:17 EDT, you write: << maybe I'm looking for electroluminescent displays ??? I want cockpit readouts -- would like to have the nice displays that are in the radios and clocks -- where and how ?? >> Do you mean something like those indiglo faces that are used on watches? I've been hoping that someone would make gauges using indiglo-type faces...they are super bright and also very cool looking! :) (Is it just plastic with a neon light shining through it?) Van ------------------------------ From: "Lawrence S. Harris III" Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: BMW late 320 / early 318 with MSD 6A I would like to hear from anyone who has connected a late (80-83) BMW 320 or 84-85 318 to an MSD ignition. I need to know what the proper phasing is on the distributor in order for the MSD to trigger properly and fire when the rotor is contacting the cap properly. This is all on my EFI 2002, which I am now trying to get running. Unfortunately I seem to have a bad distributor, because timing is jumping all over the place no matter how I phase things. The distributor does seem to have excessive end play in the shaft, which I think is partially contributing toward my problem. The car wants to run, but very poorly regardless of where I point the distributor. Has anyone triggered an MSD 6A with this distributor? Please contact me! Larry Harris lharris@xxx.com (770)682-8842 (voice) '86 Mustang LX 5.8 Coupe (168K) '82 BMW 635CSi Euro (131K) '76 BMW 2002 EFI Project Meyers Tow'd Dune Buggy (1776cc) '83 Toyota Tercel SR-5 (214K) ------------------------------ From: "Steve Baldwin" Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:18:45 +1200 Subject: Re: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays > << maybe I'm looking for electroluminescent displays ??? > > Do you mean something like those indiglo faces that are used on watches? I've > been hoping that someone would make gauges using indiglo-type faces...they > are super bright and also very cool looking! :) > (Is it just plastic with a neon light shining through it?) There are vacuum fluorescent displays and there's an electroluminescent backlight. The two are quite different and not owning anything with a cockpit, I'm not sure which you are after. Vacuum fluorescent displays are commonly used on video recorders and microwaves. They have a green or blue-green character and emit light, so they are visible at night. They can have graphical logos and symbols and are encased in glass. They work on a similar principle to neon bulbs or the old nixie tubes, where you put about 90V on the digit that you want on. Electroluminescant backlighting uses a phosphor coating like that used on oscilloscope CRTs and monitors. When it's in an AC electric field of a couple of hundred volts, it glows with a blue/white light. The light is quite broad spectrum, so it can have filters over it to provide a range of colours. Because it just needs a thin phosphor coating and a couple of electrodes, it is very thin, like a mylar film. It's usually used to backlight LCDs (like the indiglo watches) although there is a company here in New Zealand that can now screen print it any way you like. (Not cheap) There are several other ways to backlight LCDs. The cheapest and most common uses LEDs but this requires a bit of space behind the LCD. Another is to use a fiberglass matt with continuous strands. One axis of the matt has the strands extended out to form a fibre-optic bundle and that is pointed at a light source. Where there is a bend in the strand (ie. the weave), light is emitted so you get an even illumination under the LCD and it doesn't need much height. Steve. ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:24:22 -0500 Subject: Re: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays >In a message dated 97-09-03 11:20:17 EDT, you write: > ><< maybe I'm looking for electroluminescent displays ??? > > I want cockpit readouts -- would like to have the nice > displays that are in the radios and clocks -- where and how ?? >> > >Do you mean something like those indiglo faces that are used on watches? I've >been hoping that someone would make gauges using indiglo-type faces...they >are super bright and also very cool looking! :) >(Is it just plastic with a neon light shining through it?) could be the electroluminescent ... I'm trying to learn too >Van no, I wanna make some nice gauges without using red, yellow, green or blue LED's .... there's some nice looking gages in the Summit catalog for $69 each not including the sensor ... they may be Cyberdyne, don't have that catalog with me, but I see Cyberdyne vacuum fluorescent gauges for $50 each plus sensors. I can do the LED gages -- wanted to know how to do the fluorescent or electroluminescent -- checked the web, lotsa stuff and no particulars (or prices ... or even real parts ??) Apparently there's chips that drive the vacuum fluorescent displays directly -- but which ones ?? It's my understanding that those displays take 80 to 150 volts to operate them, but izzat so ?? Tom Cloud All generalizations are false (there are NO absolutes) ------------------------------ From: Terry Martin Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 13:59:24 -0700 Subject: Re: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays Tom Cloud wrote: > I want cockpit readouts -- would like to have the nice > displays that are in the radios and clocks -- where and how ?? > > Tom Cloud > > All generalizations are false (there are NO absolutes) insert... & who cuts the barber's hair? I have the entire dash cluster out of a '95 Caprice (ex cop car), and the speedo etc, looks like something that might work. My 13 yr old went nuts when I told him he could have it when I'm done. It's got more crap on it than a widebody cockpit, and it's all invisible unless it's on, backlighting, blah, blah, (29 conductors on two plugs). Plus it has analog fuel, oil press, batt & coolant temp. The cockpit business makes methinks I hear Ultra-light or home-built wings? Terry I'd like to know if anyone has resolved x2+y2=z2 for x<>3, y<>4, z<>5. ------------------------------ From: garfield@xxx.com (Garfield) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 21:24:46 GMT Subject: Re: Injectors resistance On Wed, 03 Sep 1997 11:07:48 -0700, swagaero wrote: >alex nicu wrote: >>=20 >> Does anyone know what is the resistance range for injectors ( common , >> on the market ) ? SwagMan wrote: >2, 12, 16, 32 Hey Steve. Ooooh, time to pick your brain some more...do you mind? I've had my eye on that Moto device (that has 4 integral injector drivers in it... mc33293a, Quad Injector Driver), and COULD be all that is needed to drive 4 nozzles, IF the injectors were high enough impedance. Man, I never KNEW there were some that were 32ohms! Whew. If it's not toooo much trouble, could you mention some good candidates that are either 16 or 32ohms, and their #/hr. And anyone else, chime in please. I got the Toyo lead, already...any others? Either car/year/model or anything to track them down for some experiments. BTW, the injectors on the Soob EG-33 are supposed to be 12-16ohm, unlike the EJ-22. Garfield ------------------------------ From: "Jesse R. Ortiz" Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:17:38 -0400 Subject: EBC/AIC? Does anyone have any info on making a Electroninc Boost Controller? And/Or a Addition Injector Controller? Thanks, Jr ------------------------------ From: "Jesse R. Ortiz" Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:26:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Need Mazda injector plugs I'm not sure about Mazda injectors, but I was able to get a harness for the injectors on my Mitsubishi from a company called AMP. They deal in alot of computer, and wiring products... You should able to find them in a directory here on the web somewhere. If you can't find the number let me know and I'll get it from work. Oh btw it was $6 each for mine. Jr - ---------- > From: Tuck > To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu > Subject: Need Mazda injector plugs > Date: Wednesday, September 03, 1997 9:47 AM > > I need to replace a few of the injector harness plugs on my 87 RX-7 because > the contacts in the plugs are loose and I am getting intermittent contact > (VERY noticable when the staged injection fails to turn on the > secondaries!) with the injectors. If someone can point me in the right > direction for a place to source new plugs that I can splice into the > harness, I would greatly appreciate it. > > > Justin "Tuck" Cordesman > SOLID BRASS-> All the way is the only way. > > "On a more personal note, my idea of heaven has always been waking up every > morning in the arms of a beautiful buxom blonde." > > -Tuck (?-), Earth Leader. Lecture to the Huddled Masses, #14 (19xx). ------------------------------ From: Daniel Burk Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 17:46:36 -0700 Subject: Looking to EFI the ol' Tin Lizzy Does anyone have a source for some small capacity injectors? The engine of application will be a 1926 Ford Model T inline 4 cylinder flat-head. It runs a maximum of, like 2500 RPM, and has a peak of about 20 - 25 Horsepower. I'm looking for two injectors, each of which will feed two cylinders. The target fuel pressure will be around 22 PSI. Anyone have any ideas on a suitable injector capacity and/or part number & source? Also, I'm going to need a fuel pump and regulator that are somewhat efficient and small so as to not tax the (rather tiny) electrical system. (I'll be converting to a 12 Volt system) Dan ------------------------------ From: Simon Quested Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 10:02:18 +1200 Subject: Water Injection Hi All I have designed a simple circuit using a 555 a a square wave generator driving a power transistor switching an injector I'm using a pot to set the duty cycle. The injector only comes on under boost. What base frequency should I use? I am starting with 1K Hz Who has used water injection ? Any do's don'ts or suggestions? My plan is with water injection I can crank the boost level up with out detonation problems. Cheers Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@xxx.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ When the chips are down, the cow is empty. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:22:36 -0500 Subject: Re: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays >I have the entire dash cluster out of a '95 Caprice (ex cop car), and >the speedo etc, looks like something that might work. My 13 yr old went >nuts when I told him he could have it when I'm done. It's got more crap >on it than a widebody cockpit, and it's all invisible unless it's on, >backlighting, blah, blah, (29 conductors on two plugs). Plus it has >analog fuel, oil press, batt & coolant temp. The cockpit business makes >methinks I hear Ultra-light or home-built wings? no, just what I call the driver's seat 8^) Tom Cloud All generalizations are false (there are NO absolutes) ------------------------------ From: Brian Knowles Date: Wed, 3 Sep 97 15:51:36 -0700 Subject: Re: Weld-L's >so ..... has anyone tried brazing or silver soldering ??? I'd >think the brazing would hold up quite well but would suspect the >silver solder -- esp if in a bend on the outer curve where it >gets the direct blast from the exhaust. The advantage of the silver >solder is you can work with stainless (don't need heli-arc) > >Tom Cloud Doesn't work. Well, worse, it does work for a while, then it fails. Typical mild steel exhaust has to be fusion welded or it will crack. I also has to have slip joints for expansion, and must be suspended just so, or it will crack. Silver-soldered stainless is an interesting idea I've never seen used, have no idea if it would work. Brian ------------------------------ From: Simon Quested Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:17:33 +1200 Subject: Re: EBC/AIC? Hi Jr > Does anyone have any info on making a Electroninc Boost Controller? I've been looking in to this as well..... I'm thinking of using a map sensor feeding in to a comparator so that once a base boost level is reached the output from the map sensor will control the duty cycle of a 555 running the boost solenoid ..... This is how I'm hoping it will work...... After the base boost is reached the open time of the solenoid will decrease, this (hopefully) will let the pressure diapharm open the wastegate. Insert comments here ;-) >And/Or a Addition Injector Controller? The water injector circuit I have designed could also be used as an Additional Injector ....For testing purposes to activate the circuit I'm using a microswitch connected to the end of a vacuum advance unit....... It's a bit cave man but it works (no map sensor yet ) The easy way to add an additional injector is use a pressure controlled switch that turns the extra (or cold start Injector) fully on at a set level of boost. Hope this helps Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@xxx.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ When the chips are down, the cow is empty. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: Johnny Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 17:55:41 -0700 Subject: Re: Ignition timing set-up B.E. Herron wrote: > > At 04:55 PM 9/1/97 -0700, you wrote: > >B.E. Herron wrote: > > > >> > >> Mathew is correct. Idle advance (mechanical only) should be 10 to 12 > >> degrees, no more. Idle advance (machanical+vacuum)) should be 20 to 25 > >> degrees. Total advance (mechanical) can be anywhere between 30 and 36 > >> degrees for max power. Your vacuum canister should be set to give total > >> advance (machanical+vacuum) in the same range for total mechanical advance > >> or detonation results. > > > >I'm not sure if I get this last statement. First of all, since manifold > >pressure equals atmospheric pressure when at WOT, there is no vacuum > >advance involved in total advance. What do you mean when you say "in the > >same range for total mechanical advance"? Idle advance, or static > >advance is just a function of where that happens to end up after you set > >your total advance. Low and midrange rpm mechanical advance is just a > >function of how much advance curve rate you can get away with > >programming in at WOT before detonation, on the way to your total > >advance at max rpm/max power. Vacuum advance setting is just a function > >of how much part throttle advance you can get away with programming in > >after you have set your total advance and mechanical advance curve, > >without detonation. > > > >-j- > > > > I should have said "Your vacuum canister should be set to give total > advance (machanical+vacuum)" at 3000 rpm". You're right, at WOT, there is > no vacuum signal, but at the above rpm there is. The statement was made > since he is using an adjustable vacuum canister and if too much advance is > dialed in, his timing at 3000 could be in the 40's before he knows it. Not > a good situation if accel is part throttle and not full throttle. There are situations where your actual advance will be higher than your total WOT advance. That's the whole point of vacuum advance. Take my camero for example. I have an Accel HEI in there, with the adjustable vac advance, and "medium" springs on the weights. I run 38 total on that engine. The mechanical advance is full in by 3800 rpm. I get another 10 or so degrees in vac advance when I have some vacuum. When I am cruising down the highway at 80mph, I am running 4000rpm with about 1/4 throttle (I need an overdrive). I have to be seeing at least 48 degrees of advance there, because of the high vacuum. It's doesn't rattle because manifold pressure is fairly low. If I floor it at that point, cylinder pressure comes up with manifold pressure, and the vacuum advance is gone, so I am back down to 38 degrees and no rattle. If I had EFI/DI on that engine, I could probably program in even a little more advance than that in that same light pedal high rpm cruise mode and squeeze another mpg or so out of it, but you can only get so close with a dizzy doing the thinking. I have found it easiest to set up all the mechanical first. So, I would load it down to 3000, with WOT, and set the mechanical so that it doesn't rattle there, then add in the vacuum side of it so that it didn't rattle anywhere. If the mechanical advance is such that it rattles even before you do the vacuum, you will never get it set up right. You will never be able to add the proper amount of vacuum advance. That's why I do it in that order... Total, then mechanical for WOT at all rpms, then as much vacuum as I can get away with last. On a chev with 20 or so degrees of mechanical advance available in the distributer, I usually end up with about 36-38 degrees total, which means I have about 16 inital I guess, without the vacuum. If I find that it has too much advance at idle with the vacuum, then I switch to the ported vacuum. If it doesn't have enough at idle, the I use the straight vacuum. Usually, if it has a bunch of cam, I use the straight vacuum, because it can use more advance at idle, and the vacuum at idle is low, so it works out about right. On a cam that has gobs of vacuum at idle, I usually end up using the ported vacuum. I pay absolutley no attention what so ever to what the static advance is at idle. It just ends up where ever it ends up after setting up the total advance. If I absolutely have to, I will change the total mechanical advance available, but usually I don't have to. - -j- (dizzy's are dumb) ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V2 #304 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".