DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, 6 September 1997 Volume 02 : Number 308 In this issue: Re: Volvo K jet? Re: knock knock Re: knock knock Re: Volvo K jet? about CSI Re: Electroluminescent Info Propane on Fuel Injected Cars. Re: 351W observations Re: Dud injector ??......Help Re: Propane on Fuel Injected Cars. Re: Electroluminescent Info Re: knock knock Re: injection timing Re: Volvo K jet? why is rich better for power ?? Injectors sick? Re: Weld-L's Re: why is rich better for power ?? Re: water injection Re: why is rich better for power ?? Re: Injectors sick? RE: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays Re: why is rich better for power ?? Fuel Pressure Re: Propane on Fuel Injected Cars. Re: why is rich better for power ?? Re: Fuel Pressure Fuel Injector Plug Insert Pins Re: Fuel Injector Plug Insert Pins Re: Fuel Pressure Re: EBC/AIC? Re: Fuel Injector Plug Insert Pins Re: why is rich better for power ?? See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: clsnyde@xxx.net (Clare Snyder) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:38:08 GMT Subject: Re: Volvo K jet? > I have a 82 Volvo 245 GLT w/ the B21FT w/ the K-jetronic FI. > I am having a problem with it not firing up when cold. When the outside air temp is above 60 deg it seems to be fine. After setting over night and temp below 50 deg, the colder the worse the prob, it wont fire. It will light off maybe a cylinder or two on initial crank and then just keep cranking. If I just initiate cranking for approx 1-2 secs and stop and do this repeatidly it will eventually start up. Sometimes I will sit there for approx 20 min and drain the battery dead. Once started there is no prob. I can immediatlely shut it down and it will fire right up. > I was thinking of maybe the in tank fuel pump if has one. > > Any other ideas as I am clueless to the K-Jet where as all my expertise lies in L-jet. Your cold start injector or thermal time switch is likely at fault. Easy to check - pull the CSI from the manifold and crank cold. If it does not squirt, feed it direct power. If it squirts you have a tts problem, if not an injector - 90% sure way. > > Thankyou, > > Paul (BRAAP) Ruschman > prusch@xxx.com > 75 Datsun 280 ZR-1 > 82 Volvo 245 GLT > > http://www.datsuns.com/cars/paulr.htm > > ------------------------------ From: Don Bowen Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 21:26:12 -0700 Subject: Re: knock knock Thanks alot for the offer. I want to see how you do it. BTW I really liked your site. There is great stuff there. I'll be sure and get your book when I get more serious about my EFI project. At 06:37 PM 9/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >for those of you that want the knock detector schematic send me a >private e-mail to > >wb7omm@xxx. >The only thing I ask that you do not post it or send it to anyone else >use it for yourself. > >Steve Parkman > > > ----|------||------|---- > --|------[]------|-- > 0/ \0 > > > >www.flash.net/~swagaero > > Robert Bowen California, via Thailand, Czech Republic Linguistics Student; mechanic; Vespa collector *1967 Toyota Corona, 1976 Vespa Rally 200* Ska is the ONLY Jamaican music that counts ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:16:04 -0500 Subject: Re: knock knock >for those of you that requested the knock scematic and have not received >it yet let me know and I will reship it. Remember computers are not a >perfect science (MICROSOFT). > For those of you that did receive it let me know what you think of the >simple circuit. > >Steve "Keep the Greasy side down" Parkman > I got it .... opened it with MickeyStuff Word and it looks okay; prints okay. - have you used this ?? (dumb question, I hope) - have you verified that it works ?? - the reason I ask is that I'm led to understand that each engine configuration has a very **narrow** band of frequencies that represent knock -- and your .047 uF filter is certainly not "narrow" - this circuit seems to actually just measure "noise", not knock ???? .... the input bridge/filter combo is just what is called an "envelope" detector ... i.e. it yields a DC signal proportional to the peak excursion of the input signal and represents the outer "edge" of the signal I have a long-range plan to take my knock sensor and a spectrum analyzer and do some driving (trying to miss running over things whilst I watch the spectrum analyzer -- it has no hard copy output). Note that RatShack used to make a hand-held spectrum analyzer (or was that a sound level meter ... ???? don't remember anymore 8^) I guess, Steve, that my first reaction is to question the efficacy of this circuit Tom Cloud All generalizations are false (there are NO absolutes) ------------------------------ From: Haas@xxx.nl (Joeri de Haas) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 15:17:27 +0200 Subject: Re: Volvo K jet? about CSI > >Your cold start injector or thermal time switch is likely at fault. Easy to >check - pull the CSI from the manifold and crank cold. If it does not >squirt, feed it direct power. If it squirts you have a tts problem, if not >an injector - 90% sure way. Hi guys, Speaking of cold start injectors, does anybody know the flow rate of these things ? I need a LARGE injector and it need not evaporate all the fuel that good. Thanks Joeri de Haas >> >> Thankyou, >> >> Paul (BRAAP) Ruschman >> prusch@xxx.com >> 75 Datsun 280 ZR-1 >> 82 Volvo 245 GLT >> >> http://www.datsuns.com/cars/paulr.htm >> >> > > ------------------------------ From: "Robert J. Korn" Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Electroluminescent Info > > >Here are some companies/info I've been gathering for my own work. > > > >Planar Systems, Inc. > > [ snip ] > > Anybody have programming info on the planar plasma graphics displays ?? I have a few around here somewhere ...... ------------------------------ From: Robin Bujhawan Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:50:50 -0400 Subject: Propane on Fuel Injected Cars. - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB9E0.3B155D40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to talk to any one who has experience in converting gasoline injected engine to run om propane. Thanks Robin - ---------- From: Garfield[SMTP:garfield@xxx.com] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 1997 11:11 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Dud injector ??......Help On Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:12:45 +1200, Simon Quested wrote: >The PSU was set to 12V but when I pulsed the injector it would drop >to 10v, the current was reading 4 amps > >The resistance across the injector is 2.4 ohms "Oh oh", as the guy on the baked beans commercial would say. You're on ta something dude. You've just confirmed Ohms law! No, seriously, it all matches up, the drop across 2.4 ohms with 4A flowing SHOULD be 9.6V (close enough to 10V for jazz). So, IF the injector didn't open, sounds like you got a stuck puppie; but take heart, the solenoid winding is still intact, so mebe you could free the injector pintle if you tried some ultrasound and a good cleaning solution, or whatever the injector ER guys do when they go into cardiac arrest. 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I've got their web page >>around here somewhere if your interested. >Come on! Don't keep him in suspense... > >Try doing a search on Simple Digital Systems. > >Nice site, some cool project vehicles. > >Jeremy t'anks-a-lot Jeremy ..... http://www.sdsefi.com/ Tom Cloud It IS as bad as you think and they ARE out to get you !! ------------------------------ From: A70Duster@xxx.com Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Dud injector ??......Help Try spraying some card clean into the injector's inlet and let soak for 1/2 an hour. Then apply batt. voltage for quick little bursts. No luck, then repeat the soak again. See ya, Mike ------------------------------ From: Haas@xxx.nl (Joeri de Haas) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 16:18:57 +0200 Subject: Re: Propane on Fuel Injected Cars. >I would like to talk to any one who has experience in converting gasoline injected engine to run om propane. > >Thanks > >Robin >---------- > I know a thing or two about propane injection. Please specify what you want to know. By the way what is the reason for sending an attachmenet ? Joeri de Haas haas@xxx.nl > >Attachment Converted: E:\POST\Propaneo. > ------------------------------ From: "Robert J. Korn" Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Electroluminescent Info > > > > > >Here are some companies/info I've been gathering for my own work. > > > > > >Planar Systems, Inc. > > > [ snip ] > > > > > > Anybody have programming info on the planar plasma graphics displays ?? > > I have a few around here somewhere ...... > Sorry I sent that.... I just tried the planar site again after about 2 years and now they have a bunch of data sheets available now.. I found the graphics displays in some IPC phones I got from a company that went out of business. They look promising... I bought some vacuum fourescent displays from The Elactronic Goldmine. They have the small fuel gauge, The door trunk engine brake etc warning panel and some 2 line 20 char displays..... Had to use a seperate 8051 to control the displays..... ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 17:02:12 -0700 Subject: Re: knock knock Tom Cloud wrote: > > >for those of you that requested the knock scematic and have not received > >it yet let me know and I will reship it. Remember computers are not a > >perfect science (MICROSOFT). > > For those of you that did receive it let me know what you think of the > >simple circuit. > > > >Steve "Keep the Greasy side down" Parkman > > > > I got it .... opened it with MickeyStuff Word and it looks okay; > prints okay. > > - have you used this ?? (dumb question, I hope) I built 20 of them and had on all types of engines the only ones that it really was sensitive was lycoming and contintals old tech > > - have you verified that it works ?? oh yes > > - the reason I ask is that I'm led to understand that each > engine configuration has a very **narrow** band of frequencies > that represent knock -- and your .047 uF filter is certainly > not "narrow" adjust the window for barly flickering and when it knocks the lights will come on the harder the knock the more lights > > - this circuit seems to actually just measure "noise", not > knock ???? yes Correct every engine is different as you said the worse case is ford. .... the input bridge/filter combo is just what > is called an "envelope" detector ... i.e. it yields a DC > signal proportional to the peak excursion of the input > signal and represents the outer "edge" of the signal > correct > I have a long-range plan to take my knock sensor and a spectrum > analyzer and do some driving (trying to miss running over things > whilst I watch the spectrum analyzer -- it has no hard copy > output). Note that RatShack used to make a hand-held spectrum > analyzer (or was that a sound level meter ... ???? don't remember > anymore 8^) > > I guess, Steve, that my first reaction is to question the efficacy > of this circuit for a cheap circuit it works good the more you spend the better it gets. (bean counters delight) > > Tom Cloud > > All generalizations are false (there are NO absolutes) Steve ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.com (dzorde) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: injection timing Yes please !! Is there any rule of thumb as to how big this has to be, or do they only come one size. Dan dzorde@xxx.com >If you are interested I can give you the names of some aftermarket companies >which sell a generic valve which can be inserted in a plenum. > >Regards >Jeff > ------------------------------ From: "Dave J. Andruczyk" Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:52:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Volvo K jet? > > Any other ideas as I am clueless to the K-Jet where as all my expertise lies in L-jet. Check fuel pressure, and flow capability. ( should push out about a quart in 30 seconds, from the main feed line. ( right past the filter, should bolt into the side of the fuel distrib.) Also, put a test light on the cold start injector, and see how long the light lights when cranking, ( at about 50 deg it should be at least 3 -4 seconds.) pull it out , and see if it is actually spraying ( may be clogged). Dave ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:57:01 -0500 Subject: why is rich better for power ?? can anyone out there tell me why stoich doesn't make the best power ?? Tom Cloud it IS as bad as you think and they ARE out to get you !! ------------------------------ From: Chief Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:23:24 -0400 Subject: Injectors sick? I have a Fiat L-jet and it seems to be a little sluggish sometimes at lower rpms, picks up around 3500 or so. Can't really floor it or it cuts out. Is it possible the injectors are working well only in the mid-range rpms and not at low or high extremes. Is it common for injectors to have this sort of pattern or is it maybe something else? Also, what would be the likely cause of cold drivability problems with the L-jet system? Ed Hilker aka "Chief" 84'SS - 700R4 ------------------------------ From: bwmsbldr@xxx.com (Bill Williams) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:33:03 EDT Subject: Re: Weld-L's Silver solder is widely used to join Stainless steel to a variety of other materials in applications from precision coaxial delay lines to large piping in nuclear subs. A failure in a SS to Monel joint is credited with sinking the Thresher. - --- Bill in Boulder "Engineering as an Art Form" --- ------------------------------ From: clsnyde@xxx.net (Clare Snyder) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:32:18 GMT Subject: Re: why is rich better for power ?? >can anyone out there tell me why stoich doesn't make the >best power ?? > >Tom Cloud > > it IS as bad as you think and they ARE out to get you !! > >From what I remember, it has something to do with the efficiency of combustion - not 100%, and some fuel condensing out on cooler surfaces etc. Theoretical stoich does not always mean correct, and you would rather have a wee bit of fuel left over than a wee bit of air when going for max power. It is, after all, the amount of fuel burned that determines the amount of power available. How it is burned determines how much power you get. ------------------------------ From: Todd King Date: Fri, 05 Sep 97 10:02:00 PDT Subject: Re: water injection <<< Isn't one of the effects of water injection to absorb the heat as it changes form water to steam, thereby providing some sought of intercooling effect in the combustion chamber anyway, so even if it is not that cold, it will still have an intercooling effect.... >>> Absolutely; in fact this is where the benefits come from. The heat of vaporization is huge for water; it absorbs alot of heat to transition to steam. Also similar to why N2O works well. It takes alot of heat input to seperate the O from the N2 which causes an intercooled effect, as well as freeing up extra O for combustion of more fuel. Any theories on why batch fire doesn't pop at wot vs sequential which often does on the turbo Buicks? It's really confusing. I've directly measured inj duty cycles at wot in SFI mode and they ran all the way up to > 99.5% for 720 deg rotation. But a "pop" often implies a lean condition. How could multiport exceed the above SFI fueling with all 6 inj on at ~ 100% dc? It can't- so what the heck can be going on here? Todd- currently bewildered... todd_king@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: bwmsbldr@xxx.com (Bill Williams) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 13:06:52 EDT Subject: Re: why is rich better for power ?? You may get a real earfull on this one!!! IMHO it is due to the cooling effect of the excess fuel as well as the ability of a rich mixture to burn all the air in the cylinder. Second order effects might include a higher heat release from a partial burn of more fuel. As we are O2 limited just burning the hydrogen off the fuel might give more heat. - --- Bill in Boulder "Engineering as an Art Form" --- ------------------------------ From: michaels@xxx.com (Michael Skolones) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:03:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Injectors sick? - --IMA.Boundary.008974378 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part I've been having simialar troubles with my LH-Jet '84 Volvo 240; I think the system is somewhat similar to L-Jet. Cold running is "open-loop," meaning the 02 sensor hasn't come on line yet. In this mode the computer guesses at the correct mixture (the factory default mixture calculations work great for new cars) and controls the injectors accordingly, using the air mass signal, block temperature and engine speed as inputs. Others have told me that vacuum leaks and dirty/worn out fuel injectors are the chief culprit to poor open-loop performance, and so far their advice has borne out. The theory is that in closed-loop mode, the FI computer can compensate for vacuum leaks and bad injectors, within limits, by telling the injectors to give a little more or less fuel as necessary; setting the air mass meter mixture screw when the car is fully warmed up also helps compensate for the vacuum leaks. In open loop mode the mixture is set to a factory default, and if any extra air gets into the system past the flow meter there can be no compensation for it, and so forth for malfunctioning injectors. Trouble spots on the LH-Jet for vacuum leaks seem to be: fuel injector o-rings; throttle body gaskets and butterfly valve rod seal; idle speed adjuster o-ring; on the Volvo, passenger compartment air circulation flaps are controlled by vacuum, and they are prone to leakage; power brake booster, ignition vacuum advance control, etc. The RPM-related sluggishness might improve with clean fuel injectors; it sounds like they're not pushing out enough fuel. Could also be a clogged fuel filter, bad pressure regulator or fuel pump. Mike Skolones michaels@xxx.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Injectors sick? Author: diy_efi@xxx.edu at Internet Date: 9/5/97 11:23 AM I have a Fiat L-jet and it seems to be a little sluggish sometimes at lower rpms, picks up around 3500 or so. Can't really floor it or it cuts out. Is it possible the injectors are working well only in the mid-range rpms and not at low or high extremes. Is it common for injectors to have this sort of pattern or is it maybe something else? Also, what would be the likely cause of cold drivability problems with the L-jet system? Ed Hilker aka "Chief" 84'SS - 700R4 - --IMA.Boundary.008974378 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="RFC822 message headers" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Content-Disposition: inline; filename="RFC822 message headers" Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (128.146.90.150) by mailserver.mail1.com with SMTP (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 0008DD94; Fri, 5 Sep 97 09:33:00 - -0700 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA04795; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:28:39 GMT Received: from freenet5.afn.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA04786; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:28:32 - -0400 Received: from presario (dialup11.afn.org [128.227.163.139]) by freenet5.afn.org (8.8.5/AFN-1.0) with SMTP id LAA09911 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970905152324.006e1264@xxx.org> X-Sender: afn14222@xxx.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:23:24 -0400 To: diy_efi@xxx.edu From: Chief Subject: Injectors sick? Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@xxx.edu - --IMA.Boundary.008974378-- ------------------------------ From: "Collins, Jackie, MAJ (143TRANS)" Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 13:38:30 -0400 Subject: RE: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent displays Tom, Try Dakota Digital, 3412 Hovland, Sioux Falls, SD 57107 (605) 332 6513. > ---------- > From: Tom Cloud[SMTP:cloud@xxx.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, 03 September 1997 10:57 > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: electroluminescent displays (was Re: fluorescent > displays > > >anyone know anything about fluorescent displays ?? I'd like > >to hear from anyone who has used them .... where to get, what > >are the hassles involved in using them, etc > > maybe I'm looking for electroluminescent displays ??? > > I want cockpit readouts -- would like to have the nice > displays that are in the radios and clocks -- where and how ?? > > Tom Cloud > > All generalizations are false (there are NO absolutes) > ------------------------------ From: djp@xxx.edu (Dick Protus) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: why is rich better for power ?? > > >can anyone out there tell me why stoich doesn't make the > >best power ?? > > > >Tom Cloud > > > > it IS as bad as you think and they ARE out to get you !! > > > >From what I remember, it has something to do with the efficiency of > combustion - not 100%, and some fuel condensing out on cooler surfaces etc. > Theoretical stoich does not always mean correct, and you would rather have a > wee bit of fuel left over than a wee bit of air when going for max power. It > is, after all, the amount of fuel burned that determines the amount of power > available. How it is burned determines how much power you get. > I think most of the confusion about this comes from treating A/F Ratio before and A/F Ratio after combustion as interchangeable. Also, remember that the A/F Ratio after is measured by an EGO sensor. Perfect stoich in would give you lean reading on EGO , for the reasons already mentioned above. A carb may need a 12-1 A/F in to get all oxygen burnt, injectors should be closer to stoich because they achieve better atomization to allow for more efficient combustion. Also, as far as racing and power go, the rich side of stoich is much more lenient than the lean side for power tail off and potential engine damage. Just tune for stoich out, its what the professional engine builders I know do. dick protus BTW - Kinsler Fuel Injection Company recommends sizing injectors for a 12-1 A/F for racing apps. mentioned above. ------------------------------ From: djp@xxx.edu (Dick Protus) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fuel Pressure I've noticed that the fuel pressures I've seen have seemed low. I know most of you are doing conversions and using stock components, but I'm used to seeing 5+bar, not the 1.7-2.0 bar most of you seem to be using. I've seen injectors rated to 30bar (probably would have to go an F1 team to find those in use though). I was just curious why/how everyone choose the pressure they did. Safety? Convience? Or another reason. dick protus ------------------------------ From: Justin Albury Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 08:31:32 +1000 Subject: Re: Propane on Fuel Injected Cars. Robin Bujhawan wrote: > I would like to talk to any one who has experience in converting gasoline injected engine to run om propane. what would you like to know about the conversion?????? ive done quite a few efi cars .....maybe i can help??? Justin ------------------------------ From: James Weiler Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: why is rich better for power ?? On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Tom Cloud wrote: > can anyone out there tell me why stoich doesn't make the > best power ?? I thought stoich does give best power but you go a little rich for safety reasons. No? jw ------------------------------ From: James Weiler Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Fuel Pressure On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Dick Protus wrote: > I've noticed that the fuel pressures I've seen have seemed low. > I know most of you are doing conversions and using stock components, but I'm > used to seeing 5+bar, not the 1.7-2.0 bar most of you seem to be using. > I've seen injectors rated to 30bar (probably would have to go an F1 > team to find those in use though). I was just curious why/how everyone > choose the pressure they did. Safety? Convience? Or another reason. > I'm sorry Dick did you say 5 bar ??? that's 75 psi???? wow, what kind of applications are you dealing with? CIS ?? Diesel? jw ------------------------------ From: Gary Ohst Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 17:20:11 -0700 Subject: Fuel Injector Plug Insert Pins List, I am looking a source for the two metal insert receptacles found in common plastic fuel injector connectors? I have built-up a good supply of used FI connectors from local yards, but the wires are all cut short and now I want to make up a new harness from the FI connector back. AMP sells these inserts as part of the Junior Timer connector series. Common insert part numbers are: 20-24 AWG Tin plated = 927872-2 16-20 AWG Tin plated = 925596-1 14-18 AWG Tin plated = 925597-1 Problem is AMP found no distributors with any stock. AMP does not even stock them. If you special order, your looking at an 11 week delay. I couldn't get an actual price out of them, but they indicated they should be in the $0.10 to $0.15 each range. More info can be found at www.amp.com if you search under the above part numbers. I have a few samples on the way to see which one matches the GM injector plug inserts I already pulled. I think GM is using 18 or 20 AWG for their injector leads. Anybody know of good source, or might also be interested in getting some of these? Seems like a good way to clean-up and recycle all those perfectly good used FI connectors out there. There is a .gif file for these on AMPs webpage. Addl info: Contact Type: Junior Timer Wire Range: [0.20-0.50²] AWG [mm] Insulation Diameter (Max.): .047-.063 [1.2-1.6] Contact Material: CuSn4 Tab Fit: .110 x .032 [2.8 x 0.8] in. [mm] Contact Plating: Pre-Tin Other Properties: Insulation Type FLKR Cantilever Spring Material: Stainless Steel Extraction Tool: 725864-1 Any thoughts? - --Gary-- ------------------------------ From: swagaero Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 18:32:00 -0700 Subject: Re: Fuel Injector Plug Insert Pins Gary Ohst wrote: >=20 > List, >=20 > I am looking a source for the two metal insert receptacles found in > common plastic fuel injector connectors? I have built-up a good supply > of used FI connectors from local yards, but the wires are all cut short > and now I want to make up a new harness from the FI connector back. >=20 > AMP sells these inserts as part of the Junior Timer connector series. > Common insert part numbers are: >=20 > 20-24 AWG Tin plated =3D 927872-2 >=20 > 16-20 AWG Tin plated =3D 925596-1 >=20 > 14-18 AWG Tin plated =3D 925597-1 >=20 > Problem is AMP found no distributors with any stock. AMP does not even > stock them. If you special order, your looking at an 11 week delay. I > couldn't get an actual price out of them, but they indicated they shoul= d > be in the $0.10 to $0.15 each range. More info can be found at > www.amp.com if you search under the above part numbers. I have a few > samples on the way to see which one matches the GM injector plug insert= s > I already pulled. I think GM is using 18 or 20 AWG for their injector > leads. >=20 > Anybody know of good source, or might also be interested in getting som= e > of these? Seems like a good way to clean-up and recycle all those > perfectly good used FI connectors out there. >=20 > There is a .gif file for these on AMPs webpage. Addl info: >=20 > Contact Type: Junior Timer > Wire Range: [0.20-0.50=B2] AWG [mm] > Insulation Diameter (Max.): .047-.063 [1.2-1.6] > Contact Material: CuSn4 > Tab Fit: .110 x .032 [2.8 x 0.8] in. [mm] > Contact Plating: Pre-Tin > Other Properties: Insulation Type FLKR > Cantilever Spring Material: Stainless Steel > Extraction Tool: 725864-1 >=20 > Any thoughts? >=20 > --Gary-- Buy the whole connector with new pins less then $1.25 each Steve=20 ----|------||------|---- --|------[]------|-- 0/ \0 www.flash.net/~swagaero ------------------------------ From: Seth Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:38:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Fuel Pressure On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, James Weiler wrote: > > > On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Dick Protus wrote: > > > I've noticed that the fuel pressures I've seen have seemed low. > > I know most of you are doing conversions and using stock components, but I'm > > used to seeing 5+bar, not the 1.7-2.0 bar most of you seem to be using. > > I've seen injectors rated to 30bar (probably would have to go an F1 > > team to find those in use though). I was just curious why/how everyone > > choose the pressure they did. Safety? Convience? Or another reason. > > > I'm sorry Dick did you say 5 bar ??? that's 75 psi???? wow, what kind of > applications are you dealing with? CIS ?? Diesel? > > jw > I am not speaking for Mr. Protus, but 5 bar doesn't seem that high to me. Beetles run at ~38 psig or 2.5 bar, CIS cracks the injectors at 48psig, or just over 3 bar. A good bosch pump will do 90-125 psi, depending on who you quote. From memory, mechanical injection for gasoline, into the ports is on the order of 10 bar, and the mechanical injection on mercedes 300 racecars with in cylinder injection, was 20 bar. Here at the VRI we have run direct injection with EFI injectors at 100 psi. The new unit electronic injectors for diesels are quoted at just under 2000bar, or 28,000psi. The advantage is better atomization and reduced unburnt kernels in the diesel exhaust. So most of that is academic, but I am planning on running my rail pressure as high as possible for my second stage injectors, as they don't have the luxury of spraying on the back of a hot intake valve. They are a few inches upstream. Hoping that will reduce the wall wetting. I don't know what the upper flow rate for a bosch roller vane pump is at 75 psi, or 90 psi, and driving 4 injectors at 80% duty cycle might reduce the rail pressure. I don't have information on that, but I am planning on bench testing the system, so I should be able to find out ahead of time. Seth Allen ps, anyone know of a free/cheap cross compiler from a 68k mac to a 68HC11 for "C"? thanks in advance ------------------------------ From: "Jesse R. Ortiz" Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 23:42:59 -0400 Subject: Re: EBC/AIC? I'm looking for any basic schematics on a EBC. I've tried to do a couple of simple ones myself but the boost would be very unstable. When I set it to 15 PSI it would jump between 16-12PSI. Very annoying. I'd be interested to see what you've done.. jr@xxx.net - ---------- > From: avos@xxx.au > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: EBC/AIC? > Date: Thursday, September 04, 1997 3:01 PM > > I'm currently making one myself (EBC).....What info are you after? > > BTW- A simple single injector controller to richen under boost should > be a simple add-on to an EBC. > > avos@xxx.au > > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: EBC/AIC? > Author: diy_efi@xxx.edu at INTERNET > Date: 04/9/97 8:22 > > > Does anyone have any info on making a Electroninc Boost Controller? And/Or > a Addition Injector Controller? > Thanks, > Jr ------------------------------ From: eric schumacher Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 21:36:50 -0700 Subject: Re: Fuel Injector Plug Insert Pins Hi=20 I didn't look in the catalog to see the parts you outlined but a couple of years ago I got a couple of hundred from AMP as samples. The secret was to order the ones on a strip(for automatic instalation) not the loose ones (for manual installation) since they are much more common. They are easy to cut from the strip.=20 Lotsa luck Eric At 12:20 AM 9/6/97 +0000, you wrote: >List, > >I am looking a source for the two metal insert receptacles found in >common plastic fuel injector connectors? I have built-up a good supply >of used FI connectors from local yards, but the wires are all cut short >and now I want to make up a new harness from the FI connector back. > >AMP sells these inserts as part of the Junior Timer connector series.=20 >Common insert part numbers are: > >20-24 AWG Tin plated =3D 927872-2 > >16-20 AWG Tin plated =3D 925596-1 > >14-18 AWG Tin plated =3D 925597-1 > >Problem is AMP found no distributors with any stock. AMP does not even >stock them. If you special order, your looking at an 11 week delay. I >couldn't get an actual price out of them, but they indicated they should >be in the $0.10 to $0.15 each range. More info can be found at >www.amp.com if you search under the above part numbers. I have a few >samples on the way to see which one matches the GM injector plug inserts >I already pulled. I think GM is using 18 or 20 AWG for their injector >leads. > >Anybody know of good source, or might also be interested in getting some >of these? Seems like a good way to clean-up and recycle all those >perfectly good used FI connectors out there. > >There is a .gif file for these on AMPs webpage. Addl info: > >Contact Type: Junior Timer >Wire Range: [0.20-0.50=B2] AWG [mm] >Insulation Diameter (Max.): .047-.063 [1.2-1.6] >Contact Material: CuSn4 >Tab Fit: .110 x .032 [2.8 x 0.8] in. [mm] >Contact Plating: Pre-Tin >Other Properties: Insulation Type FLKR >Cantilever Spring Material: Stainless Steel >Extraction Tool: 725864-1 > > >Any thoughts? > >--Gary-- > > ------------------------------ From: "Robert Harris" Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 22:06:11 -0700 Subject: Re: why is rich better for power ?? Try this thought pattern. Gasoline is a blend of different chemicals - ranging from methanol, butane to toluene etc. Generally speaking the lighter chemicals have higher latent heats of evaporation, octane, and quicker burning. The heavier chemicals generally contain more total energy but take longer to burn. Sort of like kindling to logs. By richening the mixture past stoich, more lights absorb more heat, thus cooler denser mixture. They are also higher octane - more tolerance to detonation and they burn more uniformly faster. Kind of like a fast bonfire - more heat, more power, big chunks (heavys) left unburnt. Over stoich means less efficiency - but higher power because of faster wasteful combustion with more heat. Also complete combustion requires several stages which take time. Rich mixtures generate more heat from early stages and less from the slower burning later stages and run out of oxygen and just throw away the slower heavys. Now is every one confused???? "When some one gets something for nothing - some one else gets nothing for something " If the first ingredient ain't Habanero, then the rest don't matter. Robert Harris - ---------- > From: James Weiler > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Cc: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: why is rich better for power ?? > Date: Friday, September 05, 1997 4:18 PM > > > > On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Tom Cloud wrote: > > > can anyone out there tell me why stoich doesn't make the > > best power ?? > > I thought stoich does give best power but you go a little rich for safety > reasons. No? > jw ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V2 #308 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".