DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, 9 September 1997 Volume 02 : Number 311 In this issue: Re: Hi I'm new - ABS-system for sale.. Re: Fuel Injector Plug Insert Pins Re: OLE BUHL RACING APS Re: test message Re: why rich is better for power Re: why rich is better for power Re: Propane on Fuel Injected Cars Re: Fuel Pressure Re: why rich is better for power Re: O2 Sensor Location ECU box locations Re: OLE BUHL RACING APS Re: ECU box locations RE: O2 Sensor Location Re: Fuel Pressure.....what to use ? Re: ECU box locations Re: ECU box locations Re: ECU box locations This is so true.... Re: why is rich better for power ?? Re: Fuel Pressure.....what to use ? Re: O2 Sensor Location RE: This is so true.... RE:RE:test Re: Fuel Pressure.....what to use ? See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Zachary J. Lembo" Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000 Subject: Re: Hi I'm new - ABS-system for sale.. Mike, how much for the whole lit and kaboodle, ie rotors, calipers, etc as well as the parts mentioned below ? -Zack Lembo. I have a 72 pre-L, do you know if all this stuff will work. I used to own a 67 Corvette, and the brakes were outstanding on it. swagaero wrote: > Mikey B Sorensen wrote: > > > > Unfortunately I just wrecked my 1987 Chevrolet Corvette.. and I'm parting > > it out.. > > The 87 model had the ABS system and if anybody is interested I'll sell > > the modulator, electronic controlmodule and sensors for a very reasonable > > price.. Drop me a note if anybody is interested.. > > > > Michael Sorensen > > San Marcos, California > > E-mail: Michael_Sorensen@xxx.com > > > > P.S. Sorry the L98, 350 TPI is already gone... > do you still have the ecm?? > Steve > -- > > ----|------||------|---- > --|------[]------|-- > 0/ \0 > > www.flash.net/~swagaero ------------------------------ From: Wilkrod@xxx.com Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Fuel Injector Plug Insert Pins Howdy all, Kinsler fuel injection sells all the connector plugs, boots, and pins for bosch connectors. Don't know if these are the same as GM connectors, but give them a call. Phone # is 313-362-1145 Regards Jeff ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:07:09 -0500 Subject: Re: OLE BUHL RACING APS [ snip ] >> I'm living not very far away from his place, so if there's = any "hands >> on"-info you would like then i could try and visit him.Hej Thommas > >Fik du l=F8st dit problem med 106=E9ren ????? og hvordan ????=20 >fordi jeg har h=F8rt, at der er nogle her i KBH der har l=F8st problemet. > >Ren=E9 > atwhay iday ehay esay ?? Tom Cloud it IS as bad as you think and they ARE out to get you !! ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:15:03 -0500 Subject: Re: test message >Hi all > > Haven't recieved any post in two days. Just checking > >Sorry :( Vance > still not getting anything ?? Tom Cloud it IS as bad as you think and they ARE out to get you !! ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:31:29 -0500 Subject: Re: why rich is better for power >Terry Martin wrote: >> >> talltom@xxx.com wrote: >> > >> >> Terry wrote: >> >> >> >> However, to deliberately ignore such relationships is not ignorance, but stupidity... >> >> > Some of your assumptions are far from accepted by others, and I'd suggest >> > that you keep your synergy in your own yard. Making grandiose assumptions based on pseudo science and > attemptiog to force the results of your theroy's on others can have a much greater effect on your ability to > go anywhere >> > than your purported problem. As far as being dead more quickly or not, >> > I'd suggest you look at Isreal, they believed they could tear people's >> > property down because of no permit, and the death rate has been pretty high lately... >> >> Yes, but are they using EFI on SCUD's? >> >> Terry >> >> (Does anyone else wonder what the hell the above was all about? Sounds >> like somebody's pissed at Jews.) > >You are obviously not running near enough lead in your fuel. > >-j- 8^) Tom Cloud it IS as bad as you think and they ARE out to get you !! ------------------------------ From: bwmsbldr@xxx.com (Bill Williams) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:24:36 -0600 Subject: Re: why rich is better for power Any chance that you could move this discussion to the "Fruitless Political Arguement" newsgroup and leave this one to those interested in DIY_EFI? - --- Bill in Boulder "Engineering as an Art Form" --- On Sun, 7 Sep 1997 19:05:26 -0700 "Robert Harris" writes: >Now I am convinced that mercury is a fuel additive > re - felt and the hatters > >"When some one gets something for nothing - > some one else gets nothing for something " > >If the first ingredient ain't Habanero, then the rest don't matter. >Robert Harris > > >---------- >> From: Johnny >> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >> Subject: Re: why rich is better for power >> Date: Sunday, September 07, 1997 5:16 PM >> >> Terry Martin wrote: >> > >> > talltom@xxx.com wrote: >> > > >> > >> Terry wrote: >> > >> >> > >> However, to deliberately ignore such relationships is not >ignorance, but >stupidity... >> > >> > > Some of your assumptions are far from accepted by others, and >I'd suggest >> > > that you keep your synergy in your own yard. Making grandiose >assumptions >based on pseudo science and > attemptiog to force the results of your >theroy's >on others can have a much greater effect on your ability to > go >anywhere >> > > than your purported problem. As far as being dead more quickly >or not, >> > > I'd suggest you look at Isreal, they believed they could tear >people's >> > > property down because of no permit, and the death rate has been >pretty >high lately... >> > >> > Yes, but are they using EFI on SCUD's? >> > >> > Terry >> > >> > (Does anyone else wonder what the hell the above was all about? >Sounds >> > like somebody's pissed at Jews.) >> >> You are obviously not running near enough lead in your fuel. >> >> -j- > ------------------------------ From: Greg Woods Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:17:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Propane on Fuel Injected Cars > > > I would like to talk to any one who has experience in converting gasoline > > injected engine to run om propane. > > what would you like to know about the conversion?????? > > ive done quite a few efi cars .....maybe i can help??? > > Justin I'm kind of curious on this also. Can I use the same ECM and just change to propane injectors?? Are their any books written detailing conversions and whats involved? I guess thats basically what i'm lookin for. A "How to" book that would explain all the pitfalls etc. that are involved in a conversion of this type. Greg woods gwoods@xxx.com austin, tx ------------------------------ From: Dan Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 11:29:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Fuel Pressure I have seen over 100PSI fuel pressure on my 911 engine under full boost (.8 Bar). The gauge maxed out at 100, so I don't know how much over that it went. Actually, I am not too happy about the high pressure, but the guy who turbo'd the engine didn't want to change the stock injectors or computer program so he used an rising rate fuel pressure regulator. Someday, I will get the engine done right but it is very expensive as one thing leads to another... different injectors, computer change, dual plugs, and so on until the wallet is empty. Dan ------------------------------ From: Terry Martin Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 07:32:13 -0700 Subject: Re: why rich is better for power Johnny wrote: > Bottom line: Never consume anything that isn't distilled first. > > -j- That certainly explains it. ------------------------------ From: Michael Manry Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: O2 Sensor Location I would appreciate input on the following qusetion: On a home-built Turbo/EFI performance system using an aftermarket ECU, should the O2 sensor be located before the turbo or after ? If after the turbo, how far after ? Thanks in advance Mike M. ------------------------------ From: Bruce Bowling Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 16:15:40 EDT Subject: ECU box locations Here's a question I have been meaning to ask: Where do auto manufacturers put the ECU boxes? Many times, I am asked to find the ECU, and I often fail to locate them, which makes me look like sort of an idiot. I do not know all of the different hiding places, nor do I like tearing apart the dash to later discover that the box is in the trunk. I always start by tearing out the kick panel by the passenger's compartment and start from there. Do auto manufacturers have a tendency to put them in the same place between models? I know that Nissan likes putting them under the passenger's seat. I think that this is useful FYI for anyone on this list. - - Bruce - -- - ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23606 (804) 249-7240 bowling@xxx.gov/~bowling - ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Rene Hjort Pedersen Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:56:40 -0700 Subject: Re: OLE BUHL RACING APS Tom Cloud wrote: > > [ snip ] > > >> I'm living not very far away from his place, so if there's any "hands > >> on"-info you would like then i could try and visit him.Hej Thommas > > > >Fik du løst dit problem med 106éren ????? og hvordan ???? > >fordi jeg har hørt, at der er nogle her i KBH der har løst problemet. > > > >René > > > > atwhay iday ehay esay ?? > > Tom Cloud > > it IS as bad as you think and they ARE out to get you !!Sorry My mistake I used the wrong Address, was to busy René ------------------------------ From: Land Shark Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:42:22 -0600 Subject: Re: ECU box locations At 04:15 PM 9/8/97 EDT, you wrote: >Here's a question I have been meaning to ask: > >Where do auto manufacturers put the ECU boxes? BMW... (what I know) E30 3 series, above glovebox roof, accessed by removing glovebox roof panel E36 3 series, in compartment above glovebox, accessed thru door in engine compartment E28 5 series, above glovebox roof, accessed by removing glovebox roof panel E24 6 series, above glovebox roof, accessed by removing glovebox roof panel E34 5 series, in "E-Box" on Pass side of engine compartment, near firewall.. ------------------------------ From: John Hess Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:26:34 -0500 Subject: RE: O2 Sensor Location There will be several thoughts on this. If it is located before the turbo, you will have little problem keeping it hot. Unfortunately, you may keep it TOO hot. If after the turbo, you could have problems keeping it hot enough. My recommendation would be using an electrically heated O2 sensor after the turbo. > ---------- > From: Michael Manry[SMTP:u04201@xxx.us] > Sent: Monday, September 08, 1997 2:28 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: O2 Sensor Location > > I would appreciate input on the following qusetion: > > On a home-built Turbo/EFI performance system using an aftermarket ECU, > > should the O2 sensor be located before the turbo or after ? If after > the > turbo, how far after ? > > Thanks in advance > > Mike M. > ------------------------------ From: James Weiler Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 14:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Fuel Pressure.....what to use ? On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Simon Quested wrote: > Hi All > > With the fuel pressuer debate going on I thought i'd throw this in... > > Atomosphere (1 bar) = 14.7 psi > turbo boost = 15 psi > > so the fuel pressure is going to need to be at least 14.7 more than > max in the inlet manifold this will give me a total fuel pressure of > 44.4 psi (3 bar approx) Depending on the system you are going to use the base fuel presure for a stock Ford system is 42 psi with the vacume refrence unpluged and engine running. With the engine running and the line plugged in it should drop to about 20 psi. Now with 15 psi of boost you'll need to to go 42+15= 57psi total. Idle presure should be the same in a turbo motor or NA application since there is no boost at idle. The more important question is how are you going to manage fuel under boost? i.e. you are adding more air so how are you adding more fuel? cheers jw ------------------------------ From: Terry Martin Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:39:19 -0700 Subject: Re: ECU box locations Bruce Bowling wrote: > Where do auto manufacturers put the ECU boxes? The info, including diagrams, pinouts, and specs, is very well documented in the Mitchell manuals, available, (here anyway), for free at any public library. All-Data has an on-line service, but lacks detail and reliabilty, as they tend to generalize. ie. I had an '95 GMC JIMMY SLT, that was spec'd with the PCM in the right place. Unfortunately, it wasn't a PCM, but a VCM-A, which integates the ABS into the VCM. Mitchell had it right, All-Data had it wrong, and deliberately restricts the modem to about 2400 to run up the connect charges. Terry ------------------------------ From: MikeTurner@xxx.com (Mike Turner) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:53:06 -0400 Subject: Re: ECU box locations 86 Corvettes put the box at the passenger's feet above the kick panel on the passenger side (US that is) of the firewall. Later models (95) put the ECU on the engine side of the firewall driver side (US) just below the windshield. Those two years I have way too much personal knowledge of. Would you like me to quote from memory the socket and torx sizes to remove and re-install? I'll provide more Corvette locations tomorrow for other years. ------------------------------ From: jb24@xxx.com Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:07:46 -0400 Subject: Re: ECU box locations There is no rhyme or reason, it's all packaging (i.e. darnit, it's the only place it would fit!). John Bucknell ABS Engineer (curious what you all are going to use the Vette unit for, as ABS is 5x better (cheaper :-) now than '87) ------------------------------ From: Tom Cloud Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:09:23 -0500 Subject: This is so true.... had to share this ..... High School/Jr.High =================== 10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD" 20 END First year in College ===================== program Hello(input, output) begin writeln('Hello World') end. Senior year in College ====================== (defun hello (print (cons 'Hello (list 'World)))) New professional ================ #include Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 11:41:02 +1200 Subject: Re: Fuel Pressure.....what to use ? Thanks to all who replied > Idle presure should be the same in a turbo motor or NA application since > there is no boost at idle. The more important question is how are you > going to manage fuel under boost? i.e. you are adding more air so how are > you adding more fuel? The ecu will take care of that, I'm going to running an O2 sensor so I can keep and eye on the mixture. if it gets to low I run a 5th injector parallel the water injector. Cheers Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@xxx.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ When the chips are down, the cow is empty. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: Frank F Parker Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: O2 Sensor Location > On a home-built Turbo/EFI performance system using an aftermarket ECU, > should the O2 sensor be located before the turbo or after ? If after the > turbo, how far after ? > > Thanks in advance > > Mike M. I built a custom efi/tubo system and I put it after the turbo because of 2 reasons: 1. back pressure from turbo will raise temps and reduce life of O2 sensor. 2. Hard to find a position to get a good average of all cylinders. I would put it 6-10 or more pipe diameters after outlet of turbo to get past the turbulance at output. It is not fussy. I used a heated sensor in S10-V8 with sensor after 2 downpipes came together-several feet from header. Frank Parker fparker@xxx.edu > ------------------------------ From: Preferred Customer Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:00:15 -0700 Subject: RE: This is so true.... - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBC81.A1069EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit way to free time on your hands - ---------- From: Tom Cloud[SMTP:cloud@xxx.edu] Sent: Monday, September 08, 1997 3:09 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu; EEC-EFI List Subject: This is so true.... had to share this ..... High School/Jr.High =================== 10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD" 20 END First year in College ===================== program Hello(input, output) begin writeln('Hello World') end. Senior year in College ====================== (defun hello (print (cons 'Hello (list 'World)))) New professional ================ #include Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:20:20 -0700 Subject: RE:RE:test Hi Tom Thanks for the posts. Had to resubscribe to list. Caught up on events from diy archives. Thanks much Vance ------------------------------ From: James Weiler Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Fuel Pressure.....what to use ? On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Simon Quested wrote: > Thanks to all who replied > > > Idle presure should be the same in a turbo motor or NA application since > > there is no boost at idle. The more important question is how are you > > going to manage fuel under boost? i.e. you are adding more air so how are > > you adding more fuel? > > The ecu will take care of that, I'm going to running an O2 sensor so > I can keep and eye on the mixture. if it gets to low I run a 5th > injector parallel the water injector. > How is the ECU going to take care of that? Especially at WOT? What will control your 5th injector? What are you using for an intercooler? Hope you don't mind the prying questions, I'm in the middle of "maximum boost" by Corky Bell. Great book. I'd recomend it if you don't have it. Why the water injection? Intercooling, proper fuel and spark management should rule out the need for water injection. What's up? see ya jw ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V2 #311 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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