DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, 12 May 1998 Volume 03 : Number 216 In this issue: RE: Wet Brakes Group O2 Hondo Sensors Re: Pressure Sensors & ION Eyes 2 stroke injection Re: GM ECM Flash programmer RE: Wet Brakes Re: Pressure Sensor for Flow Bench Questions about EGOR RE: Wet Brakes Re: Spark plugs/injectors Re: Group O2 Hondo Sensors [none] Re: Pressure Sensors & ION Eyes the aussie V8, direct petrol injection Re: 2 stroke injection RE: Spark plugs/injectors Re: Questions about EGOR Re: Spark plugs/injectors & specified ignition energy Re: Holdens a little info Re: Pressure Sensors & ION Eyes Re: the aussie V8, direct petrol injection RE: Spark plugs/injectors Re: Whattza Holden?. Re: Spark plugs/injectors & specified ignition energy Re: Spark plugs/injectors & specified ignition energy See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Jaramaz Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:58:13 +1000 Subject: RE: Wet Brakes Hows it this time - believe me, short of editing the DLLs I'm outta options :-{ PJ - ---------- From: Frederic Breitwieser Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 2:41 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: RE: Wet Brakes >Peter >(Finally worked out how to stop winmail.dat with Bill's Pot-O-S#!t Emailer >prog) >M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@xxx.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ I see that Peter. :) Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 Homebrew Automotive Website: http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HMMWV 2000 Buick-Powered Mid-Engined Sports Car - - begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@\"`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@xxx.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`8 $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````80`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&1I>5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO:&EO M+7-T871E+F5D=0!33510`&1I>5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO:&EO+7-T871E M+F5D=0`````>``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !````(@```&1I>5]E M9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=0````,`%0P!`````P#^#P8` M```>``$P`0```"0````G9&EY7V5F:4!E9FDS,S(N96YG+F]H:6\M``@0`0```&4```!(3U=325142$E35$E-12U"14Q)159% M344L4TA/4E1/1D5$251)3D=42$5$3$Q324U/551404]05$E/3E,Z+5!*+2TM M+2TM+2TM+4923TTZ1E)%1$5224-"4D5)5%=)15-%4E-%``````(!"1 !```` M"P,```<#```Z!0``3%I&=:X$U S_``H!#P(5`J0#Y 7K`H,`4!,#5 (`8V@* MP'-E=.XR!@xxx.Q7_>#(U-0* "H$-L0M@ M;O!G,3 S%" +"A+R# %"8P! ($AO=P0@:3D%0'1H! `;4 =Q("W0(&)E; B0 M=AO@!X 0+"!S:!6A(&]F;B )@!LP"X!G&U$;X$1$3$P$($DG;1TP=6T"0&$= M, 4P:0(@!" ZF"U<>PJ%"H502A_L(PKT'$ Q-#0"T6DMSR)##- B0PM9,38* MH -@xxx.B7N)&8,@B=QXPF !G%C($(6`!LP M`_#_!Y $D"6/)IT&8 (P)\\HVT)4"E!S9&%Y',!-$2]0(#$R', Q.3D@xxx." R M.C0:P%!-T -P M)(!I''$[@xxx.B\O=U/ +GA/4)4;<&-"$'D#`' N!:"L M;2\?[# 1,SCA< 20]Q&R3T! @xxx.#D:T/!- M35=6/)4!T%G03=#2=4VP:RU#('<$D$!Q`#T``0````4```!213H@``````,`#33]-P``NCU] ` end ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:07:17 -0400 Subject: Group O2 Hondo Sensors Think I might have found a second cousins friend's brother in law's drinkin buddy that might know a guy who works in a parts dept. Honda.. Now to get a price, I need a rough count of those really likely to buy, and maybes. Ain't for nothing but gettin the price. Once I found out how many, then he'll figure a for sure, and a maybe price, and then I'll ask for names, and money. If your inna hurry look elsewhere this will go in on a routine monthy order, to get the biggest discount, possible. It will be a money order deal only, and no I ain't makin a penny on it. It will be cost +tax, +envelope,+ shipping period. An invoice will be included if ya want it. Nothing will happen till all the money is here, I can't afford to front this deal. Don't go blowin smoke, on this. The more accurate the count, the quicker this will happen. If ya ain't sure don't bother e-mailing me.. Don't tie up the list with this stuff e-mail me. I'm not gonna venture a quess on price, till I get a head count. Bruce nacelp@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: goflo@xxx.net Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 20:07:05 -0700 Subject: Re: Pressure Sensors & ION Eyes Hi Garfield I'll be taking you up on the speed controller assistance. Thanks. Need to decide whether to go with what I've got or just build a bench from scratch. I'm taken with this Paxton blower notion - Really sounds like a winner. A/C motor controls are outside my hack so I'm all ears for your scheme. Lemme run this by you: Re pitot tubes - How 'bout sensing "static" pressure in a duct of known dimension and velocity with a pitot tube. If you know both then flow is straightforward computation. High quality pitot tubes are relatively cheap (Dwyer). A range of duct diameters is possible if necessary. Comment? Not to beat accuracy/repeatability to death, but I've found in component testing that what you've got hung on the piece under test (manifold, air straightener, whatever) makes way more than a couple of per cent difference - I doubt it'll surprise you that a lot of the "big" numbers you hear about are obtained with very "unrealistic" test set-ups, to put it kindly. I once had the honor of being abused by Ken Sperrling (Air Flow Research) for having the temerity to test one of his creations (for a customer), creating a certain amount of heartburn thereby. We all got over it, but the point is that hokey data and flow bench are synonyms unless you're determined ... Hope this is of some use. Jack ------------------------------ From: Clare Snyder Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:18:44 -0400 Subject: 2 stroke injection Anybody ever tried mechanical injection, like a diesel pump, on a 2 stroke gas engine?Figure the oil in the mix would handle lubrication OK - - but would it work? Not talking direct injection, just port, timed injection on a V4 Evinrude.Pressure reduced from doozle pressure, and injection volume determined strictly by throttle opening, with possible manual mixture control. - -- _/\_ --|-----([])-----|-- S 0/ \0 B Alls well that ends well!! www.snyder.on.ca is back E-Mail service is back to normal To avoid bouncing E-Mail messages Reply to Clare@xxx.ca OR Remove the R from clsnyder in my E-Mail Address to reply. Stop the spammers!!! It's hard to soar like an eagle when your stuck with a bunch of Turkeys!!! ------------------------------ From: Jody Shapiro Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:38:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: GM ECM Flash programmer On Sat, 9 May 1998 kenkelly@xxx.com wrote: > 1) Has anyone found a shareware or reasonably priced software package to > reprogram the 94 & up GM EEProm ECM's. Steve Cole of The Turbo Shop sells his Mastertune software that will do reprograms of those PCM's. Not sure if you'll need the Pro version, though ($3700)... :/ - -Jody - -- 97 Blue Vortech Z28 - Best ET: 13.100 Best MPH: 111.24 (Goodyear RS-A's) 361 rear-wheel hp @ 6000rpm, 359 rear-wheel ft-lbs @ 4400rpm http://www.bit-net.com/~jshapiro/z28/ ------------------------------ From: Alain Toussaint Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: Wet Brakes > Hows it this time - believe me, short of editing the DLLs I'm outta options :-{ > > PJ change mailer (you're using MS exchange,right ??) some member here are using MS outlook and they got it right (ya can even use netscape mail prog.,pegasus or eudora) Alain > begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT > M>)\^(@\"`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` > M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@xxx.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ ------------------------------ From: Steven Gorkowski Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 22:36:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Pressure Sensor for Flow Bench Heard you can convert 3 phase motors in to steppers . That may be the ticket. Never tried this but it may work. Steve garfield@xxx.com wrote: > On Fri, 8 May 1998 21:00:11 +0000, bamcknig@xxx.com > wrote: > > > >5 HP High Pressure Blower 349.95 > >New, features a Paxton belt driven centrifugal blower RM87(similar to > > >an automotive supercharger) 5 Hp TEFC two speed motor. > >Specs > >400 cfm 29 inches of water discharge pressure > >3 1/2 inlet 3" outlet > > >Surplus Center > >1-800-488-3407 24 hrs a day 7 days a week > >1015 West "O" St. PO Box 82209 Lincoln Nebraska 68501-2209 > >402-474-4055 FAX 402-474-5198 > > WOW, guys, I just got through researching this, and this same blower > is > both a current Paxton product, as well as sells for $2,325 new! They > seem to be IDEAL for a flow bench blower. The downside of course is > that > they have 3-phase motors, but at 5HP, you wouldn't wanna have to pay > the > cost of a single-phase motor anywhoo. So, I took the plunge and just > ordered one. Excellent find, Bob. I owe ya major brewski's for this > one! > > The other REAL nice thang about using a single blower like this, is > that > the total noise is gonna be WAY less, not to mention not having to > build > a bloody plenum/air box to hold the multiple smaller vacuum/blower > motors. NEAT! All I do is plumb the intake and exhaust lines up to > the > stand, for a place to hook them up to the "head adapter" and presto, > flow bencho! > > Gar > > P.S. Crumbs, now I have to switch gears and look into computer > controllable 3-phase motor speed controllers. (they're a tad more > complicated than simple thyristor AC/DC controllers, but definitely > diy'able). Sheesh, too many technologies, too little time. ------------------------------ From: "Bill Lawrance" Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 20:40:09 -0700 Subject: Questions about EGOR >OK, fine on the "features", that sounds good, but do you know what it's >headroom on it's regulated 5.0V current budget IS? I thot not. Nobody >does, so thas why I was pushing for running it off BAT+ if possible. >See, I'm a flyboy, so I don't take such liberties with the assumptions. >If "win, place, or show", is important to you, you won't either. Don't >add to your ECM's power budget unless you know WHAT it's power budget >IS. That was my point. I only know Ludis from his postings on this list, but based on these, he has an extremely accurate and detailed knowledge of the ECM's he is interested in. I would be very surprised if he didn't know exactly what the power budget is in the ECM's he's interested in. >>So I guess I'd need to put a 5:1 resistor divider on EGORs output, run >>that to the standard O2 input, and change the 4 or 5 PROM bytes needed >>to deal with the different voltage profile. > >Again, WHAT?; you really gotta listen up; the output curve for EGOR >doesn't represent ANYTHING similar to an normal O2 sensor, and if you >wanted to map it into a similar kinda output, you'd certainly be >spending more than 4 or 5 bytes on storage, unless you were building a >bang-bang controller, in which case WHY on earth would you use EGOR? You >need to do your homework, dude. Again, from previous posts by Ludis, he has done more 'homework' than at least 99% of the list and shared much of it. I know he's smarter than me, and my response is: please explain more of what you have in mind here because I don't understand it. There is likely to be something very interesting here. >for anywhere less than 10X the cost of the device. I think you, guy, >have your head firmly impacted up a nice, warm dark place, and I am NOT >gonna waste any more of my time on ya. Just my personal opinion, mindya. > >Sayonara, Lulu baby. I think this is very rude and unwarranted. This was not the wild speculations of someone who just read the next chapter in his textbook. In my opinion, reasonable questions and discussion points were posed by one of the most knowledgeable members of the list, and don't deserve this. I do not want Ludis' contributions quashed. Respectfully Bill Lawrance ------------------------------ From: Sandy Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 20:42:01 -0700 Subject: RE: Wet Brakes Another non-related EFI item is to recirculate the brake fluid through the calipers. I have seen a number of vendors, Dan Press Industries, and a couple of others that recycle the fluid through a small cooler to keep it from boiling. The interesting thing is that I was watching the 'Brake Cam' on some 500 mile round and round race, and the rotors on the rear would almost be in a constant glow of red. So the key must be to have really thick rotos, and some nice carbon pads. I also have heard mention of some races with brake activated squirters, but can remember if they were directed more for the caliper or for the rotor. Check the 'real' race mags, stock car, circle track, and racecar engineering for some trick brake components. Oh, sorry Clare, didn't mean to reply to you about the winmail.dat, your message was just one that I replied to. BUT, since the issue came up, someone has the master direction on how to turn it off, might be worth putting on the FTP site. Sandy ------------------------------ From: Alain Toussaint Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 00:00:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Spark plugs/injectors > Tell Honda it can't be done. They sold a ton of stratified charge CVCC > cars in the early 80's does they sold some of'em here (Canada/US) ??? Alain ------------------------------ From: Steven Gorkowski Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 22:58:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Group O2 Hondo Sensors put me down for one Steve Bruce Plecan wrote: > Think I might have found a second cousins friend's brother in law's > drinkin buddy that might know a guy who works in a parts dept. > Honda.. Now to get a price, I need a rough count of those really > likely to buy, and maybes. Ain't for nothing but gettin the price. > Once I found out how many, then he'll figure a for sure, and a > maybe price, and then I'll ask for names, and money. > If your inna hurry look elsewhere this will go in on a routine > monthy > order, to get the biggest discount, possible. > It will be a money order deal only, and no I ain't makin a penny > on it. It will be cost +tax, +envelope,+ shipping period. An invoice > > will be included if ya want it. > Nothing will happen till all the money is here, I can't afford to > front > this > deal. > Don't go blowin smoke, on this. The more accurate the count, the > quicker this will happen. If ya ain't sure don't bother e-mailing > me.. > Don't tie up the list with this stuff e-mail me. > I'm not gonna venture a quess on price, till I get a head count. > Bruce nacelp@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: Charles Hatcher Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 14:06:44 Subject: [none] Dear All, I am new to this mailing list so I hope this is not an irrelevant question (can I ask questions or am I only allowed to post extremely up to date, relevant articals). Anyway, I have a factory turbo charged and fuel injected honda engine in my car. The problem is the computer(denshigiken) is a fuel only type. I can modify my fuel maps but my ignition is controlled strictly by mechanical and vacuum advance. I read an article on the developement of an electronically controlled, distributerless ign. system on your home page. I was wondering how successfull this was. I don't want to move to completely programmable fuel injection (mainly because of the cost but was wondering if you guys would be interested in selling easy to follow plans or a kit or a fully made item?? I don't know what the deal is when it comes to these sort of things. The motor has two inductive type crank angle sensors on the end of the camshaft. The first is run by a magnetic lobe on a shaft with a single trigger point. There is also a four pointed trigger (similar to that found in an electronic distributer)on the same shaft that must have something to do with injector firing? Do you think the signal from either of these could be used, or would I have to set up so sort of reflective signal on the crankshaft pulley? Thanks for giving this some consideration Charles Hatcher ------------------------------ From: goflo@xxx.net Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:12:22 -0700 Subject: Re: Pressure Sensors & ION Eyes Gar - Forgot to mention that I had been thinking about pitot tubes for use in a sort of hybrid FI scheme. Speed-density for daily-driver operating regime, supplemented/supplanted by pitot tube input as rpm and air demand rise. Might work well in boost apps. I can see a horribly complicated algorithm though. Perhaps not even well- structured. Jack ------------------------------ From: Wayne Blair Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 14:41:39 +1000 Subject: the aussie V8, direct petrol injection some more 308 info - as I did not see some of the q's answered STD bore 4.00 stroke 3.06 BE 2.125 easy stroked sizes 320 use small journal chev rods 350 use 350 chev crank 383 use 400 chev crank requires crank rework to hav something to attache flywheel to Also aftermarket cast cranks in 3.5 and 3.75 strokes can use a 272 or 292 or 312 y-block ford crank can bore a perkins (another great aussie racer) block to 4.125 thus 400 is possible. Also much of the direct petrol injection system employed are made under licence to the aussie orbital engine company. wayne ------------------------------ From: Dennis J Fagundo Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 02:08:53 -0300 (ADT) Subject: Re: 2 stroke injection I am working on injecting a 100cc 2stroke motorcycle however I have been taking a long time to get anywhere with the combination of school work and the amount of stuff there is to figure out before ....... Anyway I am planning on first implementing an elec ign , then add a port injector, then eventually add closed loop control perhaps using the wide range o2 meter. So I probably can't help ya too much, but anyway.... L8R Dennis __________________________________- Dennis Fagundo fagunddj@xxx.ca dfagundo@xxx.bm ___________________________________ On Mon, 11 May 1998, Clare Snyder wrote: > Anybody ever tried mechanical injection, like a diesel pump, on a 2 > stroke gas engine?Figure the oil in the mix would handle lubrication OK > - but would it work? Not talking direct injection, just port, timed > injection on a V4 Evinrude.Pressure reduced from doozle pressure, and > injection volume determined strictly by throttle opening, with possible > manual mixture control. > -- > _/\_ > --|-----([])-----|-- > S 0/ \0 B > Alls well that ends well!! www.snyder.on.ca is back > E-Mail service is back to normal > To avoid bouncing E-Mail messages > Reply to Clare@xxx.ca > OR > Remove the R from clsnyder in my E-Mail Address to reply. Stop the > spammers!!! > It's hard to soar like an eagle when your stuck with a bunch of > Turkeys!!! > ________________________________________________ Dennis Fagundo fagunddj@xxx.ca dfagundo@xxx.bm http://www.tuns.ca/~fagunddj _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Thor Johnson" Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 01:27:31 -0400 Subject: RE: Spark plugs/injectors > > Tell Honda it can't be done. They sold a ton of > stratified charge CVCC > > cars in the early 80's > > does they sold some of'em here (Canada/US) ??? I've owned 2 Accord CVCC engines (and their cars! 1984 & 1986). Both were feedback carbed, which means when the ego went out, you could accelerate if you timed it right (with the richining of the A/F). Pretty good, not a lot of power, but 35mpg even w/180k mi on it. Actually, the 84 might not have been CVCC, but I don't remember. It still ran OK after impacting a tree, so give it some credit (impact only enough to mangle up thru radiator/oil cooler)! - -Thor Johnson thormj@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: garfield@xxx.com Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 22:29:32 -0700 Subject: Re: Questions about EGOR On Mon, 11 May 1998 20:40:09 -0700, "Bill Lawrance" wrote: >I only know Ludis from his postings on this list, but based on these, he >has an extremely accurate and detailed knowledge of the ECM's he is >interested in. I would be very surprised if he didn't know exactly >what the power budget is in the ECM's he's interested in. Ok, Ok, I may have been a tad hard on ole Lulu. I admit it. But ya noticed I took the time to respond to his questions, rather than just blow them off? In the beginning, I gave the twirp the benefit of the doubt. Cuz here's what I see. A guy knows what he knows in the area he knows. Problem is, he doesn't know what he doesn't know. That's alot harder thing. So he waltzes into this other area, and figures, well, I know my way around here, so I'll just button-hole these guys and see what's what. So he ends up asking a few off-the-wall questions, and EVERY post I've seen from him, it starts off with what seem like reasonable questions, and then he ends up progressively sticking his head up his orifice, ifyaknowwhadamean. Give you an example; he starts by asking the seemingly innocent question, that he wonders how much power EGOR takes, cuz he'd like to run it off his ECM power. I say, OK, here's how much power EGOR takes, but remember, it's always better to NOT presume on your ECM power budget, cuz NOBODY, except the designers of the system, can know what the available reserve is. NOBODY. He replys by saying, OH, yeah, but ALL the sensors on normal ECM's run off ECM power, and besides my ECM has lots of power features, so I'd like to use it. Features, smeatures, I say, what about the issue I raised about presuming on the ECM power budget? Now YOU say, Oh Ludis is smart, he MUST know what the budget is. Yeah?, BUZZZTT, you're lookin to the man rather than the facts. NOBODY knows! NOBODY. Which was my point; so when some preppy lil puke comes back and says, well Gar, my dog's smarter and prettier than yours, I only gotta say, Nyet, nix, zilch. You wanna argue the parameters, fine; but don't just pass by the obvious, and argue with some straw man like, "well, all the sensors use ECM power". Well, hell yes they do, and they've been designed into the power budget, but YOU have no idea how much slack is left, and YOU'RE gonna just tack something else on and HOPE it works?! Like I said before, I don't play fast and loose with the engineering, cuz I'm a flyboy, and if anything I've learned from Mutha Naitcha is, you don't ASSume stuff like this. >Again, from previous posts by Ludis, he has done more 'homework' than >at least 99% of the list and shared much of it. I know he's smarter than >me, and my response is: please explain more of what you have in mind >here because I don't understand it. There is likely to be something >very interesting here. OK, thas why I said I may have been a tad hard on ole Lulu. He has contributed, he has done his homework. But in this case, microprocessor wits are nearly absolutely witless. They RARELY have to think about a limited power budget, cuz they're used to living off an infinite +5V. What I think happened is he want's to be part of the intelligencia concerning EGOR (of which there is precious lil if any), but instead of playing the student (always a wise move), he plays the "expert from across town", and pees all over his own leg as a result. Well, waytago, dude, is all I gotta say. If ya don't know what the f*ck you're talkin bout, then don't open yer mouth. That's my paradigm. Don't like it?; get stuffed. That's my paradigm. Gee, do I hear an echo in here? We ALL are accountable to the truth and what's real, as best we know it. If you pretend to know something you don't, in my Dad's book, that's just LYING. Period. >>I think you, guy, >>have your head firmly impacted up a nice, warm dark place, and I am NOT >>gonna waste any more of my time on ya. Just my personal opinion, mindya. >> >>Sayonara, Lulu baby. >I think this is very rude and unwarranted. I expected as much from some who can't see what's going on here. Ludis wants to be considered an "expert", but he's talking like a PLEBE, so I responded to him as a plebe. You're upset. Fine, as expected. Just consider both sides of the coin, is all I ask. Lulu's parting comment was some preppy sentiment that ANY group guy should include the wiring harness for the sensor. Anyone with ANY experience or brains in this automotive world we live in KNOWS that is a total whining canard. A HARNESS, CONNECTORS? You expect to get them for anything reasonable in cost and you've made Pollyanna look like a cynic, in comparison. So what starts out a seemingly legitimate string of questions get progressively peavish and STUPID. Ends up complaining that his diapers are wet, and "we shouldn't order sensors unless we can get connectors and harnesses TOO". Whaaaaaa. Yeah, sure. >I do not want Ludis' contributions quashed. Nor do I. I'd hope rather that Ludis would consider this lashing from an ole curmudgeon like me as a lesson that one dasn't play the knowitall unless one is prepared to pay the piper. Thas all. >Respectfully I agree, Bill, your retort to me has been extremely respectful and well-modulated, and I am actually amazed at the even tone. It's not often you see that sort of thing. I would ask in return that you consider my statement back to you, that I think Ludis' motives for the questions he's been asking haven't been so much info seeking as trying to pretend he's the electrical man-about-town. And I was just laughing that his fly appeared to be open. Heh. >Bill Lawrance Gar ------------------------------ From: danny_tb@xxx.au (Danny Barrett) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 15:30:13 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: Spark plugs/injectors & specified ignition energy G'day there mate... The ignition thing sounds good. I have a spark plug gap of about 1.5mm(standard for my car). How do you think this will go? As for Charles Nelson Pogue, of Winnepeg, Canada... No... I don't know a thing about him (just kidding)... As for 216 MPG - I assume this is imperial gallons, not US gallons. Asside from that, Pogue, himself never claimed to get more than 100 MPG (he never claimed this much). He only claimed a "significant increase" in mileage. However, others claimed these figures for him. I don't know the accuracy of such figures, but I believe he did get 100 MPG at least once (from other evidence that I've seen). However, he was using "white" gasoline, which is completely free of lead, and didn't have any "molecular binders," as we have now. The molecular binders are to keep the fuel from vaporising in storage. As for unleaded fuel, it still has lead, but in trace quantities, so it does not harm cat converters. What Pogue didn't reallise until too late was that his carb catalytically cracked the fuel into methane (and other small, high octane molecules). When leaded fuel came along, his invention ceased to work, as the lead coated the copper surface of his vaposiser, and stopped the catalytic reaction. Now, with ULP, and PULP, we can use second hand cat converters to crack the fuel (provided there is no air in the catalytic chamber, and the chamber's temp is over 500 deg C). Pogue didn't reallise all of this until after leaded fuel became the normal fuel, and "white" gasoline was no longer available. I'm designing a carb on these very principles at the moment, using EFI to control it. A friend of mine put me onto what he calls Thremal Catalytic Cracking. Anyway, tell me what you know, and I may be able to help you a bit. Danny Barrett. >Hi, Danny, >The system itself will give huge possibilities to bring down a/f-ratio, >because it changes and adapts each type of combustion process much better >to the engines' parameters. >The minimum a/f-ratios achievable with a well structured spark energy are >depending on your combustion chamber, spark plug gap, ignition coil, a.s.o. >For bringing the a/f-ratio down, some fine-tuning of spark advance and >electrode gapping will greatly help to use at least some of the impulse >oscillator ignition systems' advantages. > >By the way, DID YOU HEAR SOMETHING ABOUT A HIGH-MILEAGE CARB IN THE 30's by >Charles M. Pogue which could do 216 mpg!! > >Joachim ------------------------------ From: danny_tb@xxx.au (Danny Barrett) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 15:35:51 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: Holdens a little info >At 12:09 11/05/98 +1000, you wrote: >>Actually, the normally aspirated 3L is the RB-30E, and the Turbo is the >>RB-30ET. RB-30E has comp. ratio of 9:1, and the RB-30ET has comp. ratio of >>7.5:1, so obviously, they have different heads. Even still, both have >>problems with cracking heads, so you have to be careful not to everheat >>them. Even still, I've heard of a RB-30ET getting 470 HP, and another (with >>a little bit of nitrous) getting 670 HP. Not bad from a 3L engine... >> >> >>>> a nissan 3L also (some one else will know more) >>> >>>The nissan is an RB-30 >>> >>>in both normally aspirated, and turbo configurations..... > > >I have been informed that the heads were the same, although the VL turbo >uses pistons with a deep dish... but my engine builder may be mistaken... >it wouldn't be the first time :) I got the comp. ratios from a "Gregory manual," so I assume they're correct. However, I suppose they could use the same head, only, the non-turbo one could be "planed down" in comparison to the turbo one. Of course, the turbo head is red, while the normal one is grey (from memory - or perhaps black - I haven't taken much notice). ------------------------------ From: garfield@xxx.com Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 22:47:48 -0700 Subject: Re: Pressure Sensors & ION Eyes On Mon, 11 May 1998 20:07:05 -0700, goflo@xxx.net wrote: >I'll be taking you up on the speed controller assistance. Thanks. >Need to decide whether to go with what I've got or just build a >bench from scratch. I'm taken with this Paxton blower notion - >Really sounds like a winner. A/C motor controls are outside my >hack so I'm all ears for your scheme. Well, don't look now, but I've read some on the present "tek" on AC motor speed controllers, and it makes me wonder if I'm really an EE. I think I've got a pretty decent learning curve aheadOme. >Lemme run this by you: Re pitot tubes - How 'bout sensing "static" >pressure in a duct of known dimension and velocity with a pitot >tube. If you know both then flow is straightforward computation. >High quality pitot tubes are relatively cheap (Dwyer). A range of >duct diameters is possible if necessary. Comment? Well, yeah, that's what I always thot was the point of them Dwyer two-piece pitot tubes, one to measure static, the other dynamic, but again, you HAVE to assume the velocity profile of the plumbing you're using, in order to get FLOW, don'tcha? >Not to beat accuracy/repeatability to death, but I've found in >component testing that what you've got hung on the piece under test >(manifold, air straightener, whatever) makes way more than a couple >of per cent difference - I doubt it'll surprise you that a lot of the >"big" numbers you hear about are obtained with very "unrealistic" test >set-ups, to put it kindly. Yeah, well you ARE way ahead of me on knowing the practicalities of this game, as I have only played with a SF-300 on one single head (4 ports) I was working on. That's why I said probably +-5% is gonna do it. But I've also had the crappy experience of sending the piece to someone else that also had a SF-300, and having them tell me my numbers were way off!! >I once had the honor of being abused by Ken Sperrling (AFR) Ahhh, that's all goin under the heading of politics/and-or those that deserve most of all the single-finger salute. Geez, understanding and keepin yerself from foolin yerself is hard enough, without these bozos coming along and saying they're fully clothed and beautiful, when any damned fool can see they're stark naked. I dunno, at my age I start thinking what caliber of ordnance would be necessary to expunge the dildo from the scene. I've come to the conclusion that fakes and charlatans are a natural percentage of the population, and should be treated as such, just like any OTHER criminal element. But, then again, I am kinda a curmudeon. Gar ------------------------------ From: grantg@xxx.com Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 01:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: the aussie V8, direct petrol injection > > Also aftermarket cast cranks in 3.5 and 3.75 strokes any idea on cost of these cranks....ideally the ones that will take standard Chev rods > can bore a perkins (another great aussie racer) block to 4.125 Never heard of these blocks ....are they cast by Holden for Perkins ?? > > Also much of the direct petrol injection system employed are made under > licence to the aussie orbital engine company. What parts in particular ?? - ------------------------------------------------------ Get free personalized email at http://four11.iname.com ------------------------------ From: Charles Hatcher Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:42:11 Subject: RE: Spark plugs/injectors I have an injected, turboed CVCC 1200 motor in my car which puts out 140bhp. Before that I had the ES1800 CVCC dual carb 86 Prelude motor which put out 135hp. I bent the cvcc valves on that so I took them out and plugged the holes. Then I disconected the third carby (CVCC only). The thing didn't lose any hp but it did get a slightly rough idle. CVCC are great for turbos because you can run high boost such as 20lbs with a standard head and gasket etc. This is primarily because of the stratified charge. Detonation is much less likely to occur. Ie there is much less chance of a second flame front developing in the lean main combustion chamber before the rich precombustion mixture is ignited. ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 00:39:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Whattza Holden?. Sandy wrote: > > Please check your mail programs, It is attaching those annoying > WINMAIL.DAT, and other junk files along with the mail. > > Sandy WHO??? ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 00:50:13 -0600 Subject: Re: Spark plugs/injectors & specified ignition energy I just can't believe my eyes. This is incredible. Unbelievable even. Joachim M. Wagner wrote: > > Thank you very much for the compliments, Gar! > I feel you are one of the first people to whom I ever spoke who has > perfectly realised what' s going on with that ignition system! > It' s an honour for me to talk with you, Gar. > Joachim > > ---------- > > Von: garfield@xxx.com > > An: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > Betreff: Re: Spark plugs/injectors & specified ignition energy > > Datum: Montag, 11. Mai 1998 18:40 > > > > On Mon, 11 May 1998 13:44:47 +0300, "Joachim M. Wagner" > > <1028-156@xxx.de> wrote: > > > > >The system itself will give huge possibilities to bring down a/f-ratio, > > >because it changes and adapts each type of combustion process much > better > > >to the engines' parameters. > > >... > > >By the way, DID YOU HEAR SOMETHING ABOUT A HIGH-MILEAGE CARB IN THE 30's > by > > >Charles M. Pogue which could do 216 mpg!! > > > > > >Joachim > > > > This group just keeps on amazin me!! This is a stupendous development, > > Joachim. You put a passive device in between the IGN system's HV and the > > plug, and it "feels each cylinder" and "reshapes the energy" for optimum > > efficiency/performance. WOW! I'm impressed. > > > > Sheesh, well, looks like we've made the transition from our own personal > > automotive "crack refinery" to the group's own personal "crack pot"! Now > > THAT'S progress, dudes. B) > > > > Gar > > ------------------------------ From: "Joachim M. Wagner" <1028-156@xxx.de> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 09:46:51 +0300 Subject: Re: Spark plugs/injectors & specified ignition energy Sorry to say, you are completely wrong! I wish you could distinct better between spark enhancers which indrease the number of sparks or the amount of energy, but I said clearly that the IOS-unit is transforming the QUALITY (that means all the wave-forms and phase-shifting inside the spark!!) and it works even with the highest possible frequencies, the fastest which are in the spark, and it works in real-time mode that means no time delay of sparking and it is very fast, because even frequencies above 1000 GHz are transformed. Isn't it Great? with best regards of Joachim - ---------- > Von: kenkelly@xxx.com > An: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Betreff: Re: Spark plugs/injectors & specified ignition energy > Datum: Dienstag, 12. Mai 1998 00:09 > > Sorry to say they didn't just go to Europe. They were > demonstrated at the Spring 98 Englishtown, NJ & Carlisle, PA > Automotive Flea markets. I have been going to the Spring & > Fall shows for the last 5 years and there is always one car > or pickup truck set up with a Spark enhanser. I think its > the Autotransformer type. They even manage to sell them to > this supposedly automotive oriented crowd!!! > > Ken > > Clare Snyder wrote: > > > > garfield@xxx.com wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, 11 May 1998 13:44:47 +0300, "Joachim M. Wagner" > > > <1028-156@xxx.de> wrote: > > > > > > >The system itself will give huge possibilities to bring down a/f-ratio, > > > >because it changes and adapts each type of combustion process much better > > > >to the engines' parameters. > > > >... > > > >By the way, DID YOU HEAR SOMETHING ABOUT A HIGH-MILEAGE CARB IN THE 30's by > > > >Charles M. Pogue which could do 216 mpg!! > > > > > > > >Joachim > > > > > > This group just keeps on amazin me!! This is a stupendous development, > > > Joachim. You put a passive device in between the IGN system's HV and the > > > plug, and it "feels each cylinder" and "reshapes the energy" for optimum > > > efficiency/performance. WOW! I'm impressed. > > > > > > Sheesh, well, looks like we've made the transition from our own personal > > > automotive "crack refinery" to the group's own personal "crack pot"! Now > > > THAT'S progress, dudes. B) > > > > > > Gar > > > > Gar, they've been selling these doo-dads at county fairs since about > > 1935. They have a spark gap in them that supposedly increases the > > voltage of the spark - that's one model. The other I have seen has an > > autotransformer in it - just like an ignition coil but a lower ratio, > > that is supposed to boost spark output, and a third one that supposedly > > gives a "shower of sparks". Don't know how that one is supposed to work, > > but I also saw one that used a "model T type" coil to give multiple > > sparks. Thought they were finally history, but it appears they just went > > to Europe! > > -- > > _/\_ > > --|-----([])-----|-- > > S 0/ \0 B > > Alls well that ends well!! www.snyder.on.ca is back > > E-Mail service is back to normal > > To avoid bouncing E-Mail messages > > Reply to Clare@xxx.ca > > OR > > Remove the R from clsnyder in my E-Mail Address to reply. Stop the > > spammers!!! > > It's hard to soar like an eagle when your stuck with a bunch of > > Turkeys!!! > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V3 #216 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".