DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 1 July 1998 Volume 03 : Number 312 In this issue: Re: Twin injector system? Re: ZZ3 and TBI URL for seanster scaltool Re:ECU files 2D 3D Re: Twin ECM Systems Re: URL for seanster scaltool Re: Twin injector system? Scanner problems Re: URL for seanster scaltool Re: Twin injector system? Re: Twin injector system? Re: Scanner problems Re: Twin injector system? Re: Scanner problems Dual ecms/dual injectors Re: Scanner problems Re: Scanner problems Northstar equipment Re: Scanner problems Re: Northstar equipment See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:40:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Twin injector system? >With all this talk of using twin injectors etc. can anyone tell me the reason >why injectors don't work well with short pulses? I can think of two possible >reasons: Injectors are not a perfect thing. They are nothing more than a plastic coated electromagnet that opens and closes a valve, allowing fuel past said valve. Therefore, there are four issues that I see. 1. Opening Delay - There is a slightly delay from when voltage is applied to when they actually open (very, very small, but its there). 2. Closing Delay - with a spring return, there is a slight amount of time from when the voltage is removed to when they actually close. 3. Heat - when cycled close to 80/20 (open/closed) the current draw generates a lot of heat. Combine that with the engine heat, and the lack of ventilation INSIDE the injector, well, after a while they bake open. Of course, the idea is the fuel flowing through draws some of the heat away, but this too is not a perfect science. 4. Fuel acceleration. This is negliable, but its there. When the valve opens, the fuel must accelerate out the valve from the applied pressure behind it, pushing the fuel into the engine. This is my somewhat educated guess. The advantages of using two OEM sized injectors is as follows: 1. One injector runs all the time, for non-boost regular every day driving, just keeping somewhat of an economical/emissions acceptable standard. 2. The second injector, timed near or at the first injectors timing, fires to increase the fuel supply as the engine requires it (as in boost, hard acceleration, etc), gradually increasing its pulsewidth to match the first injector, which never sees more than 75% duty cycle (random % I just picked out of a hat). 3. Running two injectors at 75% yields almost double the fuel. Good for big turbos. And two OEM injectors are dirt cheap compared to 80# injectors for example. Two 40's can be yanked off something in a junkyard. Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 Homebrew Automotive Website: http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ "When in doubt, use a bigger hammer" - - ------------------------------ From: John Zarli Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:49:11 -0400 Subject: Re: ZZ3 and TBI Shannen Durphey wrote: > Several times there have been posts to this by people > attempting to run Chevy's ZZ3 crate motor in a TBI vehicle. > Has anyone had any success (or failures) doing this? I'm > looking for war stories here, victorious or otherwise. > > Shannen I took a 1988 4 bolt 350 truck "core" & installed a ZZ3 cam, hydraulic roller lifters, crane rocker arms, & H345P pistons.....all under a TBI manifold.A zz3/tbi EXCEPT that I used the cast iron truck heads which have a swirly thingy instead of nice big valve pockets like performance heads do. I also ground out just enough of the aluminum tbi manifold to accommodate the larger 2" bore tbi unit that normally comes with a bb tbi. I am using a stock chip in a 747 ecu. I get a nuisance code 32 when the highway test occurs & sometimes the idle hunts a bit, but all in all no major problems.....I'm sure a custom chip could fix the aforementioned problems. (ANY VOLUNTEERS???) BTW, this is installed in an Astrovan in place of the V6 and passed the FL emmission sniff test. I doubt that it makes 350 HP, (those truck heads), but it moves 4200 lb Astrovan pretty good (VBG) easily revs to 5500+ rpm. 14+mpg daily city driver. ------------------------------ From: Stuart Bunning Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:56:29 -1000 Subject: URL for seanster scaltool ** TO ALL AFTER SEANSTER and HIS SCANTOOL ** TRY HERE THIS URL WORKS !!! www.merlan.ca/seanster/scantool Seanster <3sm79@xxx.ca> P.S Thanks Sean... P.P.S Sean informed me that the links below will be working again in a few months. http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3sm79/scantool http://www.seanster.ml.org http://www.seanster.ml.org/scantool/index.html Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC PTY LTD 2 APOLLO COURT BLACKBURN VICTORIA 3130 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9878 2700 FAX: 61 3 9878 0824 EMAIL: stuart.b@xxx.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ ------------------------------ From: Wayne Blair Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:52:03 +1000 Subject: Re:ECU files 2D 3D Jason >> I didnt wite facilities for graphically viewing BIT FIELDS, tell me >> more. >> ( how would you like to see this info - i've a few ideas) >KISS - Just a simple x & y-axis graph like the one I made to represent >my jeeps timing curve X - Y for a bit pattern ? not sure what ya thinking of here. >http://home.att.net/~jweir/graph.html >For the things that we are editing in the prom it almost always never >need more than a 2 axis graph, e.g... timing vs rpm, timing vs. MAP, PE >vs. TPS etc....Thats just my opinion, ask around as you well know >everyone has their own idea of how things should be.. by the way >where/how can I get a copy of promedit? thanks Jason Take timing as an example: - -it is in the prom as a table - - rpm on one axis - - load / map on the other - - then we have the required timing at each co -ordinate 3 variables to plot - thus a 3D plot. Do you want to see timing vs rpm at a select load or timing vs load at a selected rpm ? These options a a bit harder to code. Why ? (WOT conditions i can see why but that is just one edge of the 3d plot) "promedit" is in delco_edit_3.zip at the diy_efi ftp site incoming directory Though if you ask this Q then we maybe be enduring crossed-comms as I was responding to comments about ".ecu" files the parameter files for "promedit" wayne ------------------------------ From: "Espen Hilde" Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 03:00:42 +0200 Subject: Re: Twin ECM Systems Thanks for sharing your expiriance with us! Sorry for the long winded message, but I wanted to share some of the> > failures with ya, and hopefully you would avoid them. I still believe > lying to the ECM is the cheapest, easiest way of getting a high power > engine through emissions, just with a little lying to the ECM. > e for efi solution,anyone?---------- I have been thinking along the same lines the last days.I am planning to uppgrade my Maserati v6 2.5l biturbo projekt .I t has a Electro motive tec1 Efi with "super" software.320ccm bosch injectors.The engine is oddfier.So I am using a v12 system with half of the coil outputs grounded.One ignition trigger for each cyl bank. I can not have bigger injectors if I want the engine to idle smothly, if I raise the fuel pressure or use bigger injectors the engine starts occilating.If I try to fine tune the "itot "(dam shit) walue(a constant that could be simular to the idle jet in a carb) I can chose from 1.4%co or 3.5%co. I can try to put in small increaces but it makes one jump at a point.The engine gives 260hp at 4600rpm 44kg torque at 3500rpm with 1bar boost.. I am aiming for 350-400hp.I have to make new exhaust manifolds and new turboes.I have tought of using two maf systems like you have tried.GM ecus? I tought of using two compleate systems from a 200hp v6 engine , with two injectors in each runner.(If the size of the injector is adjusted by an increase in lift,then two small injectors must be faster than one big?)I think the Electro motive system is not very user frendly(the "super" software)The car is so fast at the current ,its impossible to adjust on the road.I belive in the Zytec efi systems for turboes but it is expensive.you can use trottle possition at low rpm and map at boost,it is sequential and can fier twin injector set up.It have possibility of lovering the ign.advance under acceleration. Any advice for Efi solution any one? When back pressure is higher than boost you dont need sequential efi anymore...maybe you have a nice solution? > My fantasy V6 for my mid-engine car would be a twin-turbo'd weber-like > configuration with long runners :) Same fantasy!: Mine is F1 car with 4.2l Audi v8 engine and transmision, with biturbo and street legal.....Must be the ultimate toy....:-) Tuning with ram pipes gives you 10% increase in cyl filling at the aimed target. Why bother when you have turbo? (you can aim for tuning the pipes to give you some more torque before the turboes start to work!)(faster spool up?) Espen Hilde (maybe I could get some english spell check?) Dam hat,I cant remember putting it on......strange....... ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:15:43 -0400 Subject: Re: URL for seanster scaltool >** TO ALL AFTER SEANSTER and HIS SCANTOOL ** >TRY HERE THIS URL WORKS !!! >www.merlan.ca/seanster/scantool >Seanster <3sm79@xxx.ca> You know what, I'm a friggen asshole. I drew the guy a simple 1 transistor schematic, and didn't realize it was the same Sean. Please, everyone dump nitro on my cone shaped hat AND SET ME ON FRIGGIN FIRE. Oiy. Coffee, need some more coffee. Yah. That's the ticket. Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 Homebrew Automotive Website: http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ "When in doubt, use a bigger hammer" - - ------------------------------ From: Stuart Baly Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:32:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Twin injector system? Sandy wrote: >ie, the fuel at idle still must have a small squirt. As we make injectors >larger, we must shorten the low speed pulse time. This is not always >possible to keep it operating correctly with that short of a cycle. You >have a couple of options, get peak/hold injectors which have a faster cycle >time or use 2 sets of injectors. The problem with some peak/hold injectors >is that they are for large flowing applications, and typically have poor >spray patters at lower speeds. But you get the idea. I've got this idea, but having never got off my butt and seriously played with an injection system, it may not be worth the usual 0.02c charge for ideas on this list. So everybody humor me for a few moments... The way I see it, the poor response at short cycle times is due to the long rise time of the injector current, due to the inductance of the injector coil. The rise time is determined by the voltage across the injector (V=Ldi/dt and all that). So, if a higher voltage could be used (e.g. using a DC-DC converter to charge a cap to say 60V or so, then dumping the energy from the cap into the injector coil at the start of the injector cycle), then the injector could be opened faster and shorter pulse widths could be used. Sort of like peak and hold with a much bigger peak. The cap could be sized so that its stored energy would be just enough to open the injector. A holding current could then be applied until the end of the pulse. I did a patent search and couldn't find anything similar to this, so it's either a really good idea or a really bad idea. Any flames/derisive laughter/questions to the list please. Ta, Stuart. ------------------------------ From: Jason Weir Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:38:55 -0400 Subject: Scanner problems Well I got a scan tool hooked up tonight and had a few problems, First I need a VIN number for a 91 4.3 fullsize pickup, or rather I need the engine, year and check digit codes( I used one for a 91 5.7 and things were a little different)..Any idea there? Second (all this was a idle)I am getting about 20 IAC counts at idle I assume that this is because the damm thing is running rich all the time, actually set a "oxygen sensor rich" code during the data logging, that was a first. Oh yea and the BLM was around 120 until it went into closed loop then it went to 108, Same thing for the integrator it was at 128 and then went to 60 when it went closed loop, think that I might need a rework of the fuel maps??? Another problem was I getting knock counts almost constantly at idle, it would go from 0 to 255 in about 10 seconds and then start over, until that is that I disconnected the sensor. the reason for that I guess is because the sensor is for a chevy 4.3 V6 and its on a Jeep 4.2 I6, different frequencies? well any ideas on that one? maybe using the stock jeep sensor, think it will work with the GM stuff? Other bits of info, TPS voltage .66 - .68V througout the test, about 10hg vacuum, I will have to try this again after I get the correct vin# because it didnt include things like timing advance and knock retard, and some other that I thought should have been there.. thanks for any help, Jason - -- Jason Weir - 88 YJ - 258 / Howell TBI 145K and counting Fayetteville, North Carolina JTW Web pages at http://home.att.net/~jweir mailto:jweir@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: goflo@xxx.net Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 18:52:12 -0700 Subject: Re: URL for seanster scaltool Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > I drew the guy a simple 1 transistor > schematic, and didn't realize it was the same Sean. > > Please, everyone dump nitro on my cone shaped hat AND SET ME ON FRIGGIN FIRE. Dr. Gwynne has declared a truce in the flame wars - Self-immolation might be a loop-hole, but please upload the details of your projects before flicking your bic. Jack ------------------------------ From: Sandy Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 19:00:26 -0700 Subject: Re: Twin injector system? I have though of just raising the voltage too, but would expect a couple of problem, meltdown and destruction of the injector as one ;-). The second, is that it might open faster, but not close faster, also I have now to dump a lot more stored energy back into the electronics so that may require some changes in the protection and related circutry. I don't really know the insides of the injector, if the fuel pressure is used to help close the pintle (I think thats what its called), then a combination of increased fuel pressure and higher peak voltage might do the trick. An interesting thought, would be to take a 24 vdc powersource, and run an injector (saturated style) with a 2/1 peak and hold current and see what kind of minimum cycle time you can get, and then raise the pressure. I would expect that this is all a wash, as with the added pressure the pintle will just stick open, worth a ramble however. Sandy > >The way I see it, the poor response at short cycle times is due to the long >rise time of the injector current, due to the inductance of the injector coil. >The rise time is determined by the voltage across the injector (V=Ldi/dt and >all that). So, if a higher voltage could be used (e.g. using a DC-DC converter >to charge a cap to say 60V or so, then dumping the energy from the cap into the >injector coil at the start of the injector cycle), then the injector could be >opened faster and shorter pulse widths could be used. Sort of like peak and >hold with a much bigger peak. The cap could be sized so that its stored energy >would be just enough to open the injector. A holding current could then be >applied until the end of the pulse. > >I did a patent search and couldn't find anything similar to this, so it's >either a really good idea or a really bad idea. Any flames/derisive >laughter/questions to the list please. > >Ta, >Stuart. > ------------------------------ From: goflo@xxx.net Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 19:28:39 -0700 Subject: Re: Twin injector system? Sandy wrote: > > I have though of just raising the voltage too, but would expect a couple of > problem, meltdown and destruction of the injector as one ;-). The second, > is that it might open faster, but not close faster, also I have now to dump > a lot more stored energy back into the electronics so that may require some > changes in the protection and related circutry. I don't really know the > insides of the injector, if the fuel pressure is used to help close the > pintle (I think thats what its called), then a combination of increased > fuel pressure and higher peak voltage might do the trick. An interesting > thought, would be to take a 24 vdc powersource, and run an injector > (saturated style) with a 2/1 peak and hold current and see what kind of > minimum cycle time you can get, and then raise the pressure. I would expect > that this is all a wash, as with the added pressure the pintle will just > stick open, worth a ramble however. > > Sandy > > > > >The way I see it, the poor response at short cycle times is due to the long > >rise time of the injector current... Stepper motor drivers use such schemes, but the dynamic situation is somewhat different. Suspect you can only launch the pintle so hard befoe bouncing it off its stops, with obvious complications. Anybody have hard data? Jack ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:36:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Scanner problems From: Jason Weir Subject: Scanner problems Second (all this was a >idle)I am getting about 20 IAC counts at idle This 20 is fine I assume that this is >because the damm thing is running rich all the time, actually set a >"oxygen sensor rich" code during the data logging, that was a first. >Oh yea and the BLM was around 120 until it went into closed loop so long as it drives OK open loop don't get inna twist over the 120 then it >went to 108 Means way too rich or timing way off. , Same thing for the integrator it was at 128 and then went >to 60 when it went closed loop, think that I might need a rework of the >fuel maps??? Reread the tuning notes. You "seem" to be shotgunning the tuneup here. One thing atta time. Rarely will I do more than one item atta time, and with the 747's I done abunch of chips. Don't forget a notebook so you know where your at AND where ya been.. Another problem was I getting knock counts almost >constantly at idle, it would go from 0 to 255 in about 10 seconds and >then start over, until that is that I disconnected the sensor. the >reason for that I guess is because the sensor is for a chevy 4.3 V6 and >its on a Jeep 4.2 I6, different frequencies? Depending on the BCC some do that, try a different BCC. well any ideas on that one? >maybe using the stock jeep sensor, think it will work with the GM stuff? Dangerous quessing here. >Other bits of info, TPS voltage .66 - .68V that's fine. Record TPS at 45-55-65 mph. Before ya go any further. througout the test, about >10hg vacuum, > I will have to try this again after I get the correct vin# because >it didnt include things like timing advance and knock retard, and some >other that I thought should have been there.. thanks for any help, Jason > >-- >Jason Weir - 88 YJ - 258 / Howell TBI 145K and counting >Fayetteville, North Carolina >JTW Web pages at http://home.att.net/~jweir >mailto:jweir@xxx.net > Cheers Bruce ------------------------------ From: mrvette Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:58:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Twin injector system? Sandy wrote: > > I have though of just raising the voltage too, but would expect a couple of > problem, meltdown and destruction of the injector as one ;-). The second, > is that it might open faster, but not close faster, also I have now to dump > a lot more stored energy back into the electronics so that may require some > changes in the protection and related circutry. I don't really know the > insides of the injector, if the fuel pressure is used to help close the > pintle (I think thats what its called), then a combination of increased > fuel pressure and higher peak voltage might do the trick. An interesting > thought, would be to take a 24 vdc powersource, and run an injector > (saturated style) with a 2/1 peak and hold current and see what kind of > minimum cycle time you can get, and then raise the pressure. I would expect > that this is all a wash, as with the added pressure the pintle will just > stick open, worth a ramble however. > > Sandy > > > > >The way I see it, the poor response at short cycle times is due to the long > >rise time of the injector current, due to the inductance of the injector > coil. > >The rise time is determined by the voltage across the injector (V=Ldi/dt and > >all that). So, if a higher voltage could be used (e.g. using a DC-DC > converter > >to charge a cap to say 60V or so, then dumping the energy from the cap > into the > >injector coil at the start of the injector cycle), then the injector could > be > >opened faster and shorter pulse widths could be used. Sort of like peak and > >hold with a much bigger peak. The cap could be sized so that its stored > energy > >would be just enough to open the injector. A holding current could then be > >applied until the end of the pulse. > > > >I did a patent search and couldn't find anything similar to this, so it's > >either a really good idea or a really bad idea. Any flames/derisive > >laughter/questions to the list please. > > > >Ta, > >Stuart. > > You see I forget the exact schematic but we did something similar in a bi-polor trnasmitter in the pulse field metal detecter business 20 years ago.....course it was one coil and a bi-polor transmitter...with caps charged by the reverse DFEDT? signal.... So do the same thing with a diode and the two banks of injecters....:-))) GENE ------------------------------ From: Jason Weir Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:51:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Scanner problems Bruce Plecan wrote: > >Oh yea and the BLM was around 120 until it went into closed loop > > so long as it drives OK open loop don't get inna twist over the 120 > > then it > >went to 108 > > Means way too rich or timing way off. actually both, it is loading up at idle and will smoke if I let it sit there too long, and as far as timing goes its a GM curve and its drastically different from what the jeep motor wants. > Reread the tuning notes. You "seem" to be shotgunning the tuneup > here. One thing atta time. Rarely will I do more than one item atta > time, and with the 747's I done abunch of chips. Don't forget a > notebook so you know where your at AND where ya been.. Oh I have read the tuning notes over and over I just haven't got the prom programmer yet so I really cant do anything I am just trying to learn as much as I can so I don't get over my head when the programmer gets here.... > Depending on the BCC some do that, try a different BCC. Ok here goes again, what is a BCC Oh yeah and another thing, the scanner reads 10 hg at idle but a vacuum gauge at the map sensor reads 18? again am I missing something here? thanks a bunch, Jason - -- Jason Weir - 88 YJ - 258 / Howell TBI 145K and counting Fayetteville, North Carolina JTW Web pages at http://home.att.net/~jweir mailto:jweir@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:16:46 -0400 Subject: Dual ecms/dual injectors Well, accordin to grumpy, and doc this is their ideas on how to fade the small saturated injectors off, and then bring the big peak+holds on line for a seamless transistion. For a 2-3 bar map continue out to 200/300 K/Pa. Vertical scale rpm Table entries % duty cycle or VE 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 2000 10 20 30 50 70 90 90 00 00 4000 10 20 30 60 80 80 80 00 00 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 2000 00 00 00 00 00 5 5 60 90 4000 00 00 00 00 00 10 10 70 100 Just thinking with a keyboard. Cheers Bruce We always agree with each other here at CSH, HQ, trouble is usually at different times. ------------------------------ From: T Hergen Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Scanner problems On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > From: Jason Weir > Subject: Scanner problems > > Another problem was I getting knock counts almost > >constantly at idle, it would go from 0 to 255 in about 10 seconds and > >then start over, until that is that I disconnected the sensor. the > >reason for that I guess is because the sensor is for a chevy 4.3 V6 and > >its on a Jeep 4.2 I6, different frequencies? > > Depending on the BCC some do that, try a different BCC. > > well any ideas on that one? > >maybe using the stock jeep sensor, think it will work with the GM stuff? > > Dangerous quessing here. My '92 4.3L vin W (as opposed to vin Z, the one without the balance shaft) has two knock sensors wired in parallel. There are different flavors of the 4.3L vin W that require different calibrations. One service note states explicity (quoting from bulletin no. 23-61-11, referring to the flavors of vin W 4.3L motors) "Without the correct calibration MEM-CAL, the engine will detonate." Of the two vin W 4.3L motors I know about, one has needle bearing (early motors) and the other has sleeve bearings. The needle bearings are more noisy resulting in the need for different knock calibrations, I think. The knock sensor locations for the vin W for more recent motors have changed as compared to my '92 motor. This will probably affect the knock sensitivity (and required "calibration"). This info doesn't fix your problem, but it may help you figure out what to look at. Tom ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:56:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Scanner problems Subject: Re: Scanner problems >Bruce Plecan wrote: >> >Oh yea and the BLM was around 120 until it went into closed loop >> so long as it drives OK open loop don't get inna twist over the 120 >> then it >> >went to 108 >> >> Means way too rich or timing way off. > >actually both, it is loading up at idle and will smoke if I let it sit >there too long, and as far as timing goes its a GM curve and its >drastically different from what the jeep motor wants. > >> Reread the tuning notes. You "seem" to be shotgunning the tuneup >> here. One thing atta time. Rarely will I do more than one item atta >> time, and with the 747's I done abunch of chips. Don't forget a >> notebook so you know where your at AND where ya been.. > >Oh I have read the tuning notes over and over I just haven't got the >prom programmer yet so I really cant do anything I am just trying to >learn as much as I can so I don't get over my head when the programmer >gets here.... > >> Depending on the BCC some do that, try a different BCC. > >Ok here goes again, what is a BCC Broad Cast Code, 3 or 4 letter code gm uses to id proms. > >Oh yeah and another thing, the scanner reads 10 hg at idle but a vacuum >gauge at the map sensor reads 18? again am I missing something here? 10 hg, and 18K/Pa??.. I don't know what ya mean. >thanks a bunch, Jason > >-- >Jason Weir - 88 YJ - 258 / Howell TBI 145K and counting >Fayetteville, North Carolina >JTW Web pages at http://home.att.net/~jweir >mailto:jweir@xxx.net > > > ------------------------------ From: Jennifer and Brock Fraser Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 23:24:34 -0500 Subject: Northstar equipment I've seen a lot of talk of people using Northstar engines for engine swaps in vehicles like Fiero's and such. I've also seen some rumblings about converting these engines to carb(s) to avoid dealing with the injection system. For a guy that wants to purchase a complete Northstar control system (ECM, sensors, ignition parts) does anybody have any leads on where to buy this as "take-off" or possibly unwanted parts? I know that the Northstar engine ECM is networked with the other on-board controllers. Does anybody know if the engine controller will function as a "lone box" without it's other box-friends to "talk to"? In what control trim (spark, fuel systems) are people using these engines? Thanks, Brock ------------------------------ From: peter paul fenske Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:28:17 -0700 Subject: Re: Scanner problems Hi Jason Sounds like the sensor is in too sensitive a spot Try using a bunch of teflon tape and don't screw it in so tightly. Also move its location. Block drain hole is used. The bellhousing is sometimes too sensitive Looks good:peter Ps someone mentioned a Vin generator a while back. Is on a web page somewhere >>constantly at idle, it would go from 0 to 255 in about 10 seconds and >>then start over, until that is that I disconnected the sensor. the >>reason for that I guess is because the sensor is for a chevy 4.3 V6 and >>its on a Jeep 4.2 I6, different frequencies? > >Depending on the BCC some do that, try a different BCC. > >well any ideas on that one? >>maybe using the stock jeep sensor, think it will work with the GM stuff? > ------------------------------ From: "TBK" Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:38:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Northstar equipment My 3800SC ECM was linked with 5 other boxes in the donor car (Bonne). When I put it in the Ciera, I used only the ECM and it works fine and doesn't complain. Looks like they don't ping each other. TK - -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer and Brock Fraser To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 9:54 PM Subject: Northstar equipment > >I've seen a lot of talk of people using Northstar engines for engine swaps >in vehicles like Fiero's and such. I've also seen some rumblings about >converting these engines to carb(s) to avoid dealing with the injection >system. > >For a guy that wants to purchase a complete Northstar control system (ECM, >sensors, ignition parts) does anybody have any leads on where to buy this >as "take-off" or possibly unwanted parts? > >I know that the Northstar engine ECM is networked with the other on-board >controllers. Does anybody know if the engine controller will function as a >"lone box" without it's other box-friends to "talk to"? In what control >trim (spark, fuel systems) are people using these engines? > >Thanks, >Brock > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V3 #312 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".