DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 12 August 1998 Volume 03 : Number 373 In this issue: RE: Turbo Bypass (fwd) New EFI controller Re: New EFI controller Re: Turbo Bypass Re: New EFI controller RE: Turbo Bypass (fwd) (fwd) Re: New EFI controller Re: VSS Re: VSS RE: New EFI controller Re: New EFI controller Re: VSS Re: New EFI controller Re: VSS Re: Injector Driver Module Re: Supercharger info Re: Supercharger info Re: New EFI controller Contactless distributor trigger? Re: VSS Re: Injector Driver Module GM water pumps See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rausch, Bernd" Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:59:13 +0100 Subject: RE: Turbo Bypass (fwd) Hi Greg, I saw your post on the DIY_EFI List an found you quite knowledgefull. I need a little bit help with a project. I am actually building an engine for my Renault Alpine Europacup race car. 6cyl 2,5L 7,8:1 cr 276 deg 10mm lift cams 6 injectors 266ml/min I am using a free programmable ECU from a German manufacturer (Lenz). My goal is to get about 350hp out of it. My big problem is the turbocharger. The engine has a modified Garrett T3 on it and had stock about 250-270 hp. (with cr8,7:1 and stock cams) Nobody can tell me what the limits of this turbocharger are. I have looked at the turbo and found the following: label: No Client 104052 No. S. QC 1469 Model DEV On the compressor/turbine: 20E87 / DH5 M4 A/R 48 115-54 Do you have an idea where to get specs for this turbo ? Any help would be greatly appreciated. mfg Bernd - -----Original Message----- From: bearbvd@xxx.net] Sent: Dienstag, 11. August 1998 23:25 To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Turbo Bypass (fwd) -- Forwarded message follows --- >Does anyone have any thoughts or references to info on the type and >positioning of Turbocharger bypass valves? > >Things I'm wondering about... > >- bypass to compressor inlet vs. dump to atmosphere >- pre-intercooler vs, post-I/C dump point >- effects on A/F Ratio My first and best thought is AVOID USING BLOW OFF VALVEs IF YOU POSSIBLY CAN! How? Draw through a throttle body(s) into the compressor(s), and run the compressor(s) in vacuum at part throttle. No restriction points between compressor(s) and intake ports. Yep, you need to have the best compressor seal to do it this way, but it's well worth it. It becomes virtually impossible to put a properly selected compressor into surge, You will have much shorter spool up time (because the compressor will be spinning far faster as part throttle). You will have much lower exhaust back-pressure on the engine at part throttle, and consequently longer life and lower cruising BSFC (better mileage). As far as I'm concerned a throttle between compressor and intake only happened because factories wanted to add turbos with a minimum number of part revisions and cheap seals. Yes, some of the early porsche race turbo cars did it to get better throttle response with relatively primitive design turbos. This is just not that much of a factor any more, and those p cars were pretty much an efficiency be damned design. If you really want to chat about efficiency and turbos, get hold of me off list (this is a bit off mission) and we'll talk about using long tube headers with turbos. Regards :), Greg ------------------------------ From: EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 05:13:30 EDT Subject: New EFI controller Hi Guys,Gals, A group of us have been working on an EFI controller for oem and aftermarket use and I wanted to tell you all a little about it and hopefully you will have some suggestions on how to improve it,,,,we feel the controller is finished and are still debugging software,,,but if we are missing something and there are ways to improve this,requiring additional hardware, no worries, please speak your mind. Here are a few of its' qualities: - -size: 5" x 3.25 x 1.25 (kellog'g's pop tart) - -temp: -55c - 125c- waterproof and engine mountable(vibration tests finished) - -36 way Delphi waterproof connector - -Motorola MC68332 32-bit dual microprocessor including time processing unit for high speed digital signal processing. Embedded real-time code with a real time kernel to provide modularity and easy maintenance. - -Non volatile programmable flash memory (16 bit) expandable from 128k to 1MB fully programmed in 10 seconds over 100,000 cycles. - -64k volatile fast static ram (16 bit) - -2K non volatile fast static ram supplied by keep alive power allowing diagnostics and adaptive storage. Wait I'm getting too technical on the hardware,sorry let's brief it as this could go on for a while.... - -0-250 kpa map sensor temp compensated - -digital inputs are fully configurable for direct sensing of GM, Ford,Chrysler and even variable reluctance rotational speed sensors. - -Integrated software/calibration port attatched to pc parallel port allowing flash reprogramming,data acquisition( up to 2MB per second(not a typo)) on all internal parameters including adaptive tables, software development, calibration development, on board diagnostics and end of line diagnostics. - -10 high speed saturation drivers capable of sinking 3 amps for injectors,air bypass solenoid, trasmission shift,etc.(including diagnostic sense electronics detecting open, short, and over temp conditions)each channel is capable of driving 2 high impedance injectors at 80% virtually forever. - -4 high speed high current drivers capable of sinking 6 amps necessary for driving low impedance injectors(including dianostic sense as above) Each channel is capable of driving a low impedance injector @ 80% virtually forever(how about those 120lb injectors for boost conditions???) - -2 high speed drives with 4 outputs for controlling stepper motors - -2 low speed saturation drivers for controlling incandescent lamps,relays,etc. Now onto the software side..... - -4 different open loop fuel system architectures 1. MAF and MAP system: MAF sensor utilized for steady state flow calculation employing a MAP sensor for adaptive VE utilized during transient mass air calculations. Additionally, for high power apps after the MAF sensor has maximized its flow, a speed density architecture is employed. This sytem offers the most robust fuel delivery allowing transient mass air flow calculations to be adapted in real time......Once parameters are set unit will self tune with proper equipment hooked to inboard dataloggger/calibrator. 2. MAF system.....system can self calibrate with proper equipment.(not as robust as above) 3. MAP system.....system can self calibrate with proper equipment.(not as robust as above) 4. Speed Throttle ..can self calibrate with proper equipment(not as robust as above) 5 different closed loop fuel system architectures. 1. UEGO + EGT system: Single or dual UEGO sensors are employed with individual cylinder EGT sensors to adapt individual cylinder fuel trim under all operating conditions. this system offers the most robust closed loop fuel control allowing adaptation at all fuel ratios. 2. UEGO system: Single or dual UEGO sensors are employed to adapt bank or entire engine fuel trim under all operating conditions. 3. HEGO + EGT System: Single or dual HEGO sensors are employed with individual cyl EGT sensors to adapt individual cylinder fuel trim around stoich air fuel ratios. 4. HEGO System: Single or dual HEGO sensors are employed for stoich ratios. 5. EGT system: Single or multiple EGT sensors are employed to adapt individual cylinder, bank or entire engine fuel trim. Spark, air fuel, and EGT relationships must be calibrated for each package for robust control. Now for some of the good things it can do for you...... - -Feed forward transient fuel compensation - -Wall wetting transient fuel compensation - -Cranking and start up fuel strategy with lost fuel compensation - -Open loop spark calculations adjustable with speed, load, commanded air fuel ratio, air temps,engine temps, and special cranking strategy. - -Closed loop spark knock strategy with individual cylinder adaptation - -Idle speed control with mass airflow controller and spark feedback - -Sequential fuel injection device driver with end of injection calibration. - -Bank Fuel injection device driver - -Auxilary STAGED fuel injection device driver - -Feed forward simultaneous injection device driver - -Spark/Dwell actuation device driver - -Wastegate control - -Misc. low speed device drivers - -On-Board diagnostics - -Special output test mode - -and all of this is OBD2 and upcoming years interceptable - -and more As for cost.......we don't know yet.....I'm sure it will depend on the hardware software requirements. As of now still debugging and encrypting(8 layers maybe more) software.(I'm sure it can be broken but it better be NASA) And now an example of what this controller can do....... 540 cu in BBC way too large of camshaft Screw type supercharger/intercooled. 8lbs boost 980 ft lbs torque @3600 rpm 770hp at 5200 rpm 92 octane Union 76 pump gas would pass emissions for the year 2000 from cold startup and of course once cat warmed. controller self calibrated in 10 start ups and run in vehicle(obviously this had 8 HEGO's and would only be for OEM's) Anyway if we are missing something that you guys have wanted to see in an aftermarket controller please mention it as we want to have the best system on the market bar none....Thanks for listening. - -Carl Summers ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 07:16:57 -0400 Subject: Re: New EFI controller >Anyway if we are missing something that you guys have wanted to see in an >aftermarket controller please mention it as we want to have the best system on >the market bar none....Thanks for listening. So, when do I start beta testing? . Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 Homebrew Automotive Website: http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ Wanted - RWD Buick Flywheel that fits the 3.8L / 4.1L! - - ------------------------------ From: Jim Zurlo Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 06:26:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Turbo Bypass We bypass from the intercooler inlet to the exhaust manifold just upstream of the turbine inlet. This is the best method for maximum efficiency, but you probably don't care about fuel consumption that much. It is also impossible for us to place the throttle valve upstream of the compressor inlet because turbo manufacturers don't make compressor seals for big turbochargers and engine response would be very slow. All of the above applies to very large engines (~18 liters/cylinder). For your application I agree with Gary that the best solution for you would be to put the throttle upstream of the compressor inlet. That allows you to avoid the complication of a bypass valve. Bypassing post intercooler air into the inlet just heats up your incoming charge since intercooler effectiveness is never 100%. Jim Zurlo zurlo@xxx.com >Bypassing the turbo helps keep the compressor spooled up while shifting a >manual transmission. Bypass from the pressure side before the intercooler >to the inlet side after the mass air flow meter. With speed density there >should be no affect. > >Gary Derian > >From: Jim Lill > >> >>Does anyone have any thoughts or references to info on the type and >>positioning of Turbocharger bypass valves? >> >>Things I'm wondering about... >> >>- bypass to compressor inlet vs. dump to atmosphere >>- pre-intercooler vs, post-I/C dump point >>- effects on A/F Ratio > > ------------------------------ From: "A. Bosch" Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:43:51 UTC-2 Subject: Re: New EFI controller > So, when do I start beta testing? . > After me! Dr A. N. Bosch Physiology Department/ Sports Science Institute University of Cape Town Medical School P. O. Box 115 Newlands 7700 South Africa ------------------------------ From: "Rausch, Bernd" Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:09:26 +0100 Subject: RE: Turbo Bypass (fwd) (fwd) Sorry, wrong address :) my intend was to mail Greg privately. Bernd ------------------------------ From: Duncan Miller Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:53:18 -0500 Subject: Re: New EFI controller 'id like to see a inexpensive PC programmable EFI ecu that would allow me to replace emission carbs on vehicles made from 1970 to 1980 for the purpose of lowering maintenance, improving fuel consumption, lowering emissions, and small increase in hp. under $500.00 Duncan EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com wrote: > Hi Guys,Gals, > A group of us have been working on an EFI controller for oem and > aftermarket use and I wanted to tell you all a little about it and hopefully > you will have some suggestions on how to improve it,,,,we feel the controller > is finished and are still debugging software,,,but if we are missing something > and there are ways to improve this,requiring additional hardware, no worries, > please speak your mind. > > Here are a few of its' qualities: > > -size: 5" x 3.25 x 1.25 (kellog'g's pop tart) > -temp: -55c - 125c- waterproof and engine mountable(vibration tests > finished) > -36 way Delphi waterproof connector > -Motorola MC68332 32-bit dual microprocessor including time processing unit > for high speed digital signal processing. Embedded real-time code with a real > time kernel to provide modularity and easy maintenance. > -Non volatile programmable flash memory (16 bit) expandable from 128k to 1MB > fully programmed in 10 seconds over 100,000 cycles. > -64k volatile fast static ram (16 bit) > -2K non volatile fast static ram supplied by keep alive power allowing > diagnostics and adaptive storage. > > Wait I'm getting too technical on the hardware,sorry let's brief it as this > could go on for a while.... > -0-250 kpa map sensor temp compensated > -digital inputs are fully configurable for direct sensing of GM, Ford,Chrysler > and even variable reluctance rotational speed sensors. > -Integrated software/calibration port attatched to pc parallel port allowing > flash reprogramming,data acquisition( up to 2MB per second(not a typo)) on all > internal parameters including adaptive tables, software development, > calibration development, on board diagnostics and end of line diagnostics. > -10 high speed saturation drivers capable of sinking 3 amps for injectors,air > bypass solenoid, trasmission shift,etc.(including diagnostic sense electronics > detecting open, short, and over temp conditions)each channel is capable of > driving 2 high impedance injectors at 80% virtually forever. > -4 high speed high current drivers capable of sinking 6 amps necessary for > driving low impedance injectors(including dianostic sense as above) Each > channel is capable of driving a low impedance injector @ 80% virtually > forever(how about those 120lb injectors for boost conditions???) > -2 high speed drives with 4 outputs for controlling stepper motors > -2 low speed saturation drivers for controlling incandescent lamps,relays,etc. > > Now onto the software side..... > > -4 different open loop fuel system architectures > > 1. MAF and MAP system: MAF sensor utilized for steady state flow calculation > employing a MAP sensor for adaptive VE utilized during transient mass air > calculations. Additionally, for high power apps after the MAF sensor has > maximized its flow, a speed density architecture is employed. This sytem > offers the most robust fuel delivery allowing transient mass air flow > calculations to be adapted in real time......Once parameters are set unit will > self tune with proper equipment hooked to inboard dataloggger/calibrator. > 2. MAF system.....system can self calibrate with proper equipment.(not as > robust as above) > 3. MAP system.....system can self calibrate with proper equipment.(not as > robust as above) > 4. Speed Throttle ..can self calibrate with proper equipment(not as robust as > above) > > 5 different closed loop fuel system architectures. > > 1. UEGO + EGT system: Single or dual UEGO sensors are employed with > individual cylinder EGT sensors to adapt individual cylinder fuel trim under > all operating conditions. this system offers the most robust closed loop fuel > control allowing adaptation at all fuel ratios. > 2. UEGO system: Single or dual UEGO sensors are employed to adapt bank or > entire engine fuel trim under all operating conditions. > 3. HEGO + EGT System: Single or dual HEGO sensors are employed with > individual cyl EGT sensors to adapt individual cylinder fuel trim around > stoich air fuel ratios. > 4. HEGO System: Single or dual HEGO sensors are employed for stoich ratios. > 5. EGT system: Single or multiple EGT sensors are employed to adapt > individual cylinder, bank or entire engine fuel trim. Spark, air fuel, and EGT > relationships must be calibrated for each package for robust control. > > Now for some of the good things it can do for you...... > > -Feed forward transient fuel compensation > -Wall wetting transient fuel compensation > -Cranking and start up fuel strategy with lost fuel compensation > -Open loop spark calculations adjustable with speed, load, commanded air fuel > ratio, air temps,engine temps, and special cranking strategy. > -Closed loop spark knock strategy with individual cylinder adaptation > -Idle speed control with mass airflow controller and spark feedback > -Sequential fuel injection device driver with end of injection calibration. > -Bank Fuel injection device driver > -Auxilary STAGED fuel injection device driver > -Feed forward simultaneous injection device driver > -Spark/Dwell actuation device driver > -Wastegate control > -Misc. low speed device drivers > -On-Board diagnostics > -Special output test mode > -and all of this is OBD2 and upcoming years interceptable > -and more > > As for cost.......we don't know yet.....I'm sure it will depend on the > hardware software requirements. > > As of now still debugging and encrypting(8 layers maybe more) software.(I'm > sure it can be broken but it better be NASA) > > And now an example of what this controller can do....... > > 540 cu in BBC way too large of camshaft > Screw type supercharger/intercooled. 8lbs boost > 980 ft lbs torque @3600 rpm > 770hp at 5200 rpm > 92 octane Union 76 pump gas > would pass emissions for the year 2000 from cold startup and of course once > cat warmed. > controller self calibrated in 10 start ups and run in vehicle(obviously this > had 8 HEGO's and would only be for OEM's) > > Anyway if we are missing something that you guys have wanted to see in an > aftermarket controller please mention it as we want to have the best system on > the market bar none....Thanks for listening. > -Carl Summers ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:55:59 -0400 Subject: Re: VSS - -----Original Message----- From: Richard Wakeling To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 1:07 AM Subject: Re: VSS >Hi Bruce, > What ECU are you testing below. Is it the 808 or 747? Ooops, it's the 1227730 >If it is the 808, could it be that your scanner is giving you the wrong >info. What scanner are you useing on the 808? Haven't gotten that far yet. >Cheers Richard > >Bruce Plecan wrote: >> >> OK, on the bench ecms. No matter what memcal, the scanner sees >> no MPH, and the TCC is always on. Gear switch doesn't change it >> or 4th gear apply switch. >> Sounds like a bad ecm, maybe?. >> Any thoughts?, I've checked the wiring several times and everything appears >> right.. >> Kelp >> Bruce > > ------------------------------ From: "TBK" Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 07:14:54 -0700 Subject: Re: VSS I've driven my 7730 with an oscillator at about 10V pk-pk Bruce. A standard 4 pole VSS won't trigger it? TK - -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 6:09 AM Subject: Re: VSS > >-----Original Message----- >From: Richard Wakeling >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 1:07 AM >Subject: Re: VSS > > >>Hi Bruce, >> What ECU are you testing below. Is it the 808 or 747? > >Ooops, it's the 1227730 > >>If it is the 808, could it be that your scanner is giving you the wrong >>info. What scanner are you useing on the 808? > >Haven't gotten that far yet. >>Cheers Richard >> >>Bruce Plecan wrote: >>> >>> OK, on the bench ecms. No matter what memcal, the scanner sees >>> no MPH, and the TCC is always on. Gear switch doesn't change it >>> or 4th gear apply switch. >>> Sounds like a bad ecm, maybe?. >>> Any thoughts?, I've checked the wiring several times and everything >appears >>> right.. >>> Kelp >>> Bruce >> >> > > ------------------------------ From: "Kurek, Larry" Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:34:26 -0500 Subject: RE: New EFI controller >Anyway if we are missing something that you guys have wanted to see in an >aftermarket controller please mention it as we want to have the best system on >the market bar none....Thanks for listening. Is this system going to have tha capability to control a nitrous system as well? I'd like to see a trigger for nitrous activation (what the heck, up to three stages of nitrous), with fuel compensation and retard control as well for each stage (cumulative or discrete). Another idea...if you REALLY want to move this sucker when you get done with it, make OEM adapter harnesses along with it. If you offered this controller, with a harness (and corresponding software) to plug into, say, a 94 Camaro LT1...you'd sell them like hotcakes... When can I run a test for you? :) Larry >-Carl Summers ------------------------------ From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: New EFI controller > > Wait I'm getting too technical on the hardware,sorry let's brief it as this > could go on for a while.... > -0-250 kpa map sensor temp compensated would go higher than 250 some guys are already playing with boost levels in the 40-60 lb range and they are sure to climb higher > -10 high speed saturation drivers capable of sinking 3 amps for injectors,air > bypass solenoid, trasmission shift,etc.(including diagnostic sense electronics > detecting open, short, and over temp conditions)each channel is capable of > driving 2 high impedance injectors at 80% virtually forever. not enough what if you want to do SEFI on a V 12 setup? > -4 high speed high current drivers capable of sinking 6 amps necessary for > driving low impedance injectors(including dianostic sense as above) Each > channel is capable of driving a low impedance injector @ 80% virtually > forever(how about those 120lb injectors for boost conditions???) > -2 high speed drives with 4 outputs for controlling stepper motors > -2 low speed saturation drivers for controlling incandescent lamps,relays,etc. > > Now onto the software side..... > > -4 different open loop fuel system architectures would offer multiple open loop option also would offer multiple closed loop option ie. different programmes selected via switch or other parameter specified by user (boost level, engine temp, fuel octane etc.) individual cylinder EGO adaptation > > 5 different closed loop fuel system architectures. > > As for cost.......we don't know yet.....I'm sure it will depend on the > hardware software requirements. keep us informed > > As of now still debugging and encrypting(8 layers maybe more) software.(I'm > sure it can be broken but it better be NASA) not sure this is a good idea may be better off to release the source and copyright the crap out of it that way anyone can modify the setup to do what they need and your unit will be come very popular because of this > And now an example of what this controller can do....... > > 540 cu in BBC way too large of camshaft what do you call way too large? 300^ and .700" on 106^ centre ? > Screw type supercharger/intercooled. 8lbs boost > 980 ft lbs torque @3600 rpm > 770hp at 5200 rpm impressive numbers what is the CR ? bore/stroke other details? 92 octane Union 76 pump gas ok so what about better gas, more boost, better timing, etc. what can be expected 1000 HP at 6000 ? > would pass emissions for the year 2000 from cold startup and of course once > cat warmed. > controller self calibrated in 10 start ups and run in vehicle(obviously this > had 8 HEGO's and would only be for OEM's) > > Anyway if we are missing something that you guys have wanted to see in an > aftermarket controller please mention it as we want to have the best system on > the market bar none....Thanks for listening. LED or LCD display of selectable parameters as a tuning aid, including the ability to drive a warning system or a cutoff also rev limiting in 2 or 3 stages real time data link out for tuning and telemetry Clive ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:06:40 -0400 Subject: Re: VSS - -----Original Message----- From: TBK To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 10:52 AM Subject: Re: VSS >I've driven my 7730 with an oscillator at about 10V pk-pk Bruce. A standard >4 pole VSS won't trigger it? >TK Well, per off line letter tried feeding it a distributor signal, just from the pickup coil, and doing that gives me a vss signal. Was using a 555 and for some reason, a DC pulse wouldn't trigger it, Hmmmm. Cheers Bruce that didn't work???????. >-----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Plecan >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 6:09 AM >Subject: Re: VSS > > >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Richard Wakeling >>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >>Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 1:07 AM >>Subject: Re: VSS >> >> >>>Hi Bruce, >>> What ECU are you testing below. Is it the 808 or 747? >> >>Ooops, it's the 1227730 >> >>>If it is the 808, could it be that your scanner is giving you the wrong >>>info. What scanner are you useing on the 808? >> >>Haven't gotten that far yet. >>>Cheers Richard >>> >>>Bruce Plecan wrote: >>>> >>>> OK, on the bench ecms. No matter what memcal, the scanner sees >>>> no MPH, and the TCC is always on. Gear switch doesn't change it >>>> or 4th gear apply switch. >>>> Sounds like a bad ecm, maybe?. >>>> Any thoughts?, I've checked the wiring several times and everything >>appears >>>> right.. >>>> Kelp >>>> Bruce >>> >>> >> >> > > ------------------------------ From: goflo@xxx.net Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:04:45 -0700 Subject: Re: New EFI controller Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020 wrote: > > As of now still debugging and encrypting(8 layers maybe more) software.(I'm > > sure it can be broken but it better be NASA) > > not sure this is a good idea > may be better off to release the source and copyright it... > that way anyone can modify the setup to do what they need > and your unit will be come very popular because of this Echo Clives comment - Otherwise you're locked into the guys who can afford a one-off system market, already pretty well addressed. And of course it will be hacked. And obsolete 6 months later. If it's as good as you say it is licensing is where the money is... My $.02 - Good luck Jack ------------------------------ From: peter paul fenske Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:22:36 -0700 Subject: Re: VSS Hi Bruce Forgot to mention the standard VSS input for most apps is a zero crossing detector. You need a A.C. signal to trigger it.. :peter At 11:06 AM 8/12/98 -0400, you wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >From: TBK >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 10:52 AM >Subject: Re: VSS > > >>I've driven my 7730 with an oscillator at about 10V pk-pk Bruce. A >standard >>4 pole VSS won't trigger it? >>TK > >Well, per off line letter tried feeding it a distributor signal, just from >the >pickup coil, and doing that gives me a vss signal. Was using a 555 and for >some reason, a DC pulse wouldn't trigger it, Hmmmm. >Cheers >Bruce > >that didn't work???????. >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Bruce Plecan >>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >>Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 6:09 AM >>Subject: Re: VSS >> >> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Richard Wakeling >>>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >>>Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 1:07 AM >>>Subject: Re: VSS >>> >>> >>>>Hi Bruce, >>>> What ECU are you testing below. Is it the 808 or 747? >>> >>>Ooops, it's the 1227730 >>> >>>>If it is the 808, could it be that your scanner is giving you the wrong >>>>info. What scanner are you useing on the 808? >>> >>>Haven't gotten that far yet. >>>>Cheers Richard >>>> >>>>Bruce Plecan wrote: >>>>> >>>>> OK, on the bench ecms. No matter what memcal, the scanner sees >>>>> no MPH, and the TCC is always on. Gear switch doesn't change it >>>>> or 4th gear apply switch. >>>>> Sounds like a bad ecm, maybe?. >>>>> Any thoughts?, I've checked the wiring several times and everything >>>appears >>>>> right.. >>>>> Kelp >>>>> Bruce >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:48:50 -0600 Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module How are you going to get the peak opening current? Greg >Hmmm... Why go to all of the trouble to switch the injectors from >+14V. This would be a very tricky switch mode power supply design. Why >not simply lower the drive voltage. If you drive the injectors from a >lower voltage (say +5V) then your power dissipation will drop to a >mangeable level. > >National Semiconductor builds chips which are switch mode power >supplies (I think the family is called "simple-switcher") or you can >buy a commercial module (try PowerTrends http://www.powertrends.com/ ) >to drop the voltage. This also solves the problem of not having enough >volts to fire the injectors while cranking. > >-- >Lawrence King lawrence@xxx.net Ottawa Ontario Canada >70 Buick Wildcat, 71 Lotus Elan, 92 Nissan NX2000 >I am a three car family (four if you count the Buick as two cars) ------------------------------ From: Chris Morriss Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:47:12 +0100 Subject: Re: Supercharger info In message <35D12A6A.85212C8A@xxx.com>, Walter Petermann writes >Mike, >I think what he's saying is this: > >Say the MAF output is read as kg/min of air then > >kg/min (air)*14.7= kg/min (fuel) > >but what's needed is kg/rev of fuel to get injector on time. Deviding >kg/min (fuel) by rpm gives kg/rev (fuel). Or, MAF reading needs to >be devided by rpm. > > Walter > >Mike Morrin wrote: >> >> >Chris Morriss wrote: >> >> Imagine that the engine is >> >> loaded such that it requires the same amount of fuel per revolution at >> >> 6000 rpm as it does at 2000 rpm. The MAF at 6000 rpm is going to be >> >> roughly 3 times as much as at 2000, >> >> Are you saying that the air/fuel ratio is varying in proportion to RPM? >> smells fishy to me... >> >> regards, >> >> Mike Morrin Thanks walter, you put it better than I did. - -- Chris Morriss ------------------------------ From: Chris Morriss Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:43:52 +0100 Subject: Re: Supercharger info In message <3.0.5.32.19980812114033.008a36b0@xxx.nz>, Mike Morrin writes >>Chris Morriss wrote: >>> Imagine that the engine is >>> loaded such that it requires the same amount of fuel per revolution at >>> 6000 rpm as it does at 2000 rpm. The MAF at 6000 rpm is going to be >>> roughly 3 times as much as at 2000, > >Are you saying that the air/fuel ratio is varying in proportion to RPM? >smells fishy to me... > >regards, > >Mike Morrin > > No I was saying just the opposite. If you fired the injectors once per engine rev, with the pulse duration directly related to MAF, then you would get a varying A/F ratio. Have a look at the books that explain how L-jet works. You'll see that there is a rather crude multivibrator division circuit to get it all correct. - -- Chris Morriss ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:55:51 -0600 Subject: Re: New EFI controller Carl-- As you know by now, lots more off list from me. But I couldn't agree more with what the other guys are telling you on this point. It will get hacked. Even if if better be NORAD! None of 'em can afford the good hackers! Why bother trying to act like Steve Jobs?? The limited, high dollar market approach will certainly continue to pay your salary (and others), but will never get your outfit over the hump in the price/unit curve, and certainly won't get you into the OEM game. Been there, seen that played. My $.02 is that more units on the street would prod OEM's to want your technology sooner--you just need to make it more attractive for them to buy than to copy or procure a hacked version a year from now! OEM people do play dirty, but licensing and disclosure agreements ARE VERY politically difficult for them to break. Regards, Greg >As of now still debugging and encrypting(8 layers maybe more) software.(I'm >sure it can be broken but it better be NASA) > ..Thanks for listening. >-Carl Summers ------------------------------ From: Mike Morrin Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 07:08:06 +1200 Subject: Contactless distributor trigger? I have a friend who is converting an old Jag to run dual fuel LPG/petrol. He is intending to fit one of those Jaycar programmable ignition modules, and some sort of high energy driver. What he wants is a reliable contactless replacement for his points to fit a Lucas 6 cyl distributor. Any suggestions? Does anyone know if the Jaycar unit needs to be driven with a square wave, or can it be driven directly with a reluctor? regards, Mike ------------------------------ From: T Hergen Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: VSS Putting a capacitor between pin 3 of the 555 and the vss input of the ecm may work. On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, peter paul fenske wrote: > Hi Bruce > > Forgot to mention the standard VSS input for most apps > is a zero crossing detector. You need a A.C. signal to trigger > it.. > > :peter > > At 11:06 AM 8/12/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: TBK > >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > >Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 10:52 AM > >Subject: Re: VSS > > > > > >>I've driven my 7730 with an oscillator at about 10V pk-pk Bruce. A > >standard > >>4 pole VSS won't trigger it? > >>TK > > > >Well, per off line letter tried feeding it a distributor signal, just from > >the > >pickup coil, and doing that gives me a vss signal. Was using a 555 and for > >some reason, a DC pulse wouldn't trigger it, Hmmmm. > >Cheers > >Bruce > > > >that didn't work???????. > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Bruce Plecan > >>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > >>Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 6:09 AM > >>Subject: Re: VSS > >> > >> > >>> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: Richard Wakeling > >>>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > >>>Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 1:07 AM > >>>Subject: Re: VSS > >>> > >>> > >>>>Hi Bruce, > >>>> What ECU are you testing below. Is it the 808 or 747? > >>> > >>>Ooops, it's the 1227730 > >>> > >>>>If it is the 808, could it be that your scanner is giving you the wrong > >>>>info. What scanner are you useing on the 808? > >>> > >>>Haven't gotten that far yet. > >>>>Cheers Richard > >>>> > >>>>Bruce Plecan wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> OK, on the bench ecms. No matter what memcal, the scanner sees > >>>>> no MPH, and the TCC is always on. Gear switch doesn't change it > >>>>> or 4th gear apply switch. > >>>>> Sounds like a bad ecm, maybe?. > >>>>> Any thoughts?, I've checked the wiring several times and everything > >>>appears > >>>>> right.. > >>>>> Kelp > >>>>> Bruce > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: Lawrence King Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:06:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module Peak operating current is 4A for the injector that is opening now, plus up to 7A to hold open the other 7 injectors, grand total 11A. I have assumed that you only open one injector at a time. The switcher chips can use an external pass transistor (or FET). The switcher should operate at about 50% duty cycle at full load. The pass transistor will be either ON or OFF, and will need to conduct 22A when ON (11Amps/50%). The power disipation of the pass transistor is the ON resistance (0.01ohm?) times 22A squared, or about 5W (actually 0.484W). For the pass transistor I don't expect you would choose a bi-polar device, probably something like the injector driver transistors on the EFI-332 driver board. Greg Hermann wrote: > > How are you going to get the peak opening current? > Greg > > >Hmmm... Why go to all of the trouble to switch the injectors from > >+14V. This would be a very tricky switch mode power supply design. Why > >not simply lower the drive voltage. If you drive the injectors from a > >lower voltage (say +5V) then your power dissipation will drop to a > >mangeable level. > > > >National Semiconductor builds chips which are switch mode power > >supplies (I think the family is called "simple-switcher") or you can > >buy a commercial module (try PowerTrends http://www.powertrends.com/ ) > >to drop the voltage. This also solves the problem of not having enough > >volts to fire the injectors while cranking. - -- Lawrence King lawrence@xxx.net Ottawa Ontario Canada 70 Buick Wildcat, 71 Lotus Elan, 92 Nissan NX2000 I am a three car family (four if you count the Buick as two cars) ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:52:24 +0000 Subject: GM water pumps I need to find a water pump that fits a GM smallblock V8, reverse rotation, with a heater core return fitting. My V8 conversion S-10 Blazer sprung a leak in the water pump some time ago. The motor came from a '91 Caprice. That car had some kind of system where the hot water can be shut off from the heater core completely. The water pump doesn't have the usual heater core return fitting. When I swapped the motor I just teed the heater return into the lower radiator hose. Now that I have to replace it, I want to get a pump with a return water fitting. It's a serpentine belt system which means it's also reverse rotation. Can someone give me an application that uses a reverse rotation V8 water pump with a heater return fitting? I'm thinking that an early 90's full size truck might be the thing, but the parts guy didn't seem too anxious to let me go digging through stock. Anxiously waiting, - --steve - -- Steve Ravet International Meta Systems http://www.imes.com steve@xxx.com ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V3 #373 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".