DIY_EFI Digest Sunday, 3 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 005 In this issue: SV: oops... (was Re: Nology) Re: Voltage regulator Re: Voltage regulator Re: fuel pumps Re: Engine book Re: Voltage regulator Re: Voltage regulator Re: fuel pumps Re: fuel pumps Fwd: Re: fuel pumps Re: fuel pumps Re: 92 Corvette LT-1 Re: fuel pumps Re: Voltage regulator Re: 92 Corvette LT-1 RE: corvairs????? PICs and X-10 Re: Voltage regulator Re: fuel pumps Re: Voltage regulator Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 Re: Chemical warfare Re: SV: oops... (was Re: Nology) Re: Voltage regulator Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 Re: SV: oops... (was Re: Nology) Re: Water Injection Thread Re: Water Injection Thread Re: Engine book Re: Water Injection Thread Plans for complete EFI system now online (ECU6) Re: Water Injection Thread TurboS See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roland Johansson" Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 08:11:44 +0100 Subject: SV: oops... (was Re: Nology) First it didn't show up in my mind but when thinking of this idea a drawback appeared to me. All the welding helmets I been looking thruu (two) are having a big green filter, looks like that might be a problem. But why not have a LCD showing the plate number and turning it off when a flash appear? Hm, have to go to my fathers house and make a close examination of his helmet in the evening Roland Johansson Scirocco 1,6l TIC -82 > >I like your idea of an LCD screen similar to the expensive welding hoods. The > >opaquing action would not have to outrun the light, only go dark before the > >camera lens had collected sufficient light. Anybody know the shutter speed > >used? > > There are two sources of light used to expose the film. First is the flash > from the speed camera, the second is the ambient light hanging around. The > shutter speed is likely to be around 1/125 to 1/250 of a second, certainly no > faster than 1/500. Camera flahes have very short durations. I don't know how > quickly the light builds up from the flash, but any trigger circuit would need > to detect the flash building up and get the LCD opaque before enough light had > arived. > > The effect of the ambient light would be interesting, since this light is > always there, and the flash is triggered somewhere in the middle of the > exposure. The shutter opens fully, then the flash fires, and the shutter > closes. Depending on the power of the flash and the distance from the camera > to the car, ambient light would probably have no real effect on the image. > > -- > Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz > - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ From: "Tom Parker" Date: 04 Jan 99 01:05:30 +1200 Subject: Re: Voltage regulator Greg Hermann wrote: >>At 01:55 PM 1/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >> >>> >>>Hence, the proper answer of PWM. >> >>Exactly! >>The pump still sees full voltage, it just has it for a limited time! >C'mon--the PWM switch LOWERS the AVERAGE voltage by switching teh FULL >voltage on and off rapidly. As I said, you want good smoothing of the >output, cuz the rapid pulsing IS what will dissassemble the windings! Won't the smoothing system turn it into a lower constant voltage? If you have enough capacatance across it, it will just average out the pulses. Or do you mean not this much smoothing, but enough to take the sharp edges of the transitions between on and off? - -- Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 10:11:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Voltage regulator - -----Original Message----- From: Clarence Wood To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 12:49 AM Subject: Re: Voltage regulator Pulse Width Modulation. On time measured as a %. Depending on application the frquency can be taylored to application. So you wind up picking a frequency of how fast, and how long to apply power. Bruce > Following this thread with great interest! What is PWM?? > >At 08:27 PM 1/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Greg Hermann wrote: >>> >>> >At 01:55 PM 1/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >>> > >>> >> >>> >>Hence, the proper answer of PWM. > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 10:22:16 -0500 Subject: Re: fuel pumps - -----Original Message----- From: Mike Pilkenton To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 12:14 AM Subject: Re: fuel pumps A/C Delco, has a book that shows all their pumps vital specs., and what they look like. Remember when doing an intank, that means a tank R+R for any pump work. Personally while not as silent, I like a big dumb noisy one I can fix with out a hoist, and 2 friends. Twice I've wound up changing pump brushes on the side of the road (less than 20 mins).. I also carry a spare ignition module, cap rotor some long plug wires, fuel filter and only once been towed home, in many years/miles of driving. Bruce >All this talk on fuel pumps brings up a question I have had. Where can I >find an aftermarket fuel pump for FI. All the ones I have seen are for >carb. engines. I need one that puts out about 50 psi for the 3.1L V6 motor >and can be mounted outside the tank. > >Mike >(3.1L V6 Opel GT conversion) > > ------------------------------ From: KD6JDJ@xxx.com Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 10:37:33 EST Subject: Re: Engine book Jeff I think that you will like the 'late model Chevy' engine transplant book. I dont get up as far as Pacoima very often anyway. Still, my original offer stands. Just in case you get more interested -- The book is # S 195 They show their Web address:WWW.ssapubl.com 714 639 7681 Jerry ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 09:01:49 -0700 Subject: Re: Voltage regulator > Following this thread with great interest! What is PWM?? > >At 08:27 PM 1/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Greg Hermann wrote: >>> >>> >At 01:55 PM 1/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >>> > >>> >> >>> >>Hence, the proper answer of PWM. Pulse Width Modulation--rapid on/off switching --the % of time on determines the average % of supply voltage delivered. Greg ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 09:06:00 -0700 Subject: Re: Voltage regulator >Greg Hermann wrote: > >>>At 01:55 PM 1/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>Hence, the proper answer of PWM. >>> >>>Exactly! >>>The pump still sees full voltage, it just has it for a limited time! > >>C'mon--the PWM switch LOWERS the AVERAGE voltage by switching teh FULL >>voltage on and off rapidly. As I said, you want good smoothing of the >>output, cuz the rapid pulsing IS what will dissassemble the windings! > >Won't the smoothing system turn it into a lower constant voltage? If you have >enough capacatance across it, it will just average out the pulses. > >Or do you mean not this much smoothing, but enough to take the sharp edges of >the transitions between on and off? As far as I am concerned, the smoother the better! Greg > > >-- >Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz > - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ From: Clarence Wood Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 10:02:48 -0600 Subject: Re: fuel pumps JEG'S 1-800-345-4545 At 08:52 PM 1/2/99 -0800, you wrote: >All this talk on fuel pumps brings up a question I have had. Where can I >find an aftermarket fuel pump for FI. All the ones I have seen are for >carb. engines. I need one that puts out about 50 psi for the 3.1L V6 motor >and can be mounted outside the tank. > >Mike >(3.1L V6 Opel GT conversion) > > > ------------------------------ From: "Jon Fedock" Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 11:50:25 -0500 Subject: Re: fuel pumps BMW, Ford (some), and VW/Audi all use external high pressure pumps. I am using one from a VW on my TPI Trans Am with no starvation problems. YMMV Jon - -----Original Message----- From: Mike Pilkenton To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 12:14 AM Subject: Re: fuel pumps >All this talk on fuel pumps brings up a question I have had. Where can I >find an aftermarket fuel pump for FI. All the ones I have seen are for >carb. engines. I need one that puts out about 50 psi for the 3.1L V6 motor >and can be mounted outside the tank. > >Mike >(3.1L V6 Opel GT conversion) > > > ------------------------------ From: Dodge1979@xxx.net (Roger Anderson) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 10:56:35 -0600 (CST) Subject: Fwd: Re: fuel pumps - --WebTV-Mail-298361717-268 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Bosch offers several efi fuel pumps- - --WebTV-Mail-298361717-268 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-102.bryant.webtv.net (207.79.35.92) by postoffice-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 08:48:30 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (esl.eng.ohio-state.edu [128.146.90.233]) by mailsorter-102.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id IAA15893; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 08:48:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@xxx.7) id LAA27311 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 11:07:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.centuryinter.net (mail2.centuryinter.net [209.142.136.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA27307 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 11:07:11 -0500 Received: from cen16176.centuryinter.net (ppp086.av.centuryinter.net [209.142.163.100]) by mail2.centuryinter.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA19708; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 10:07:08 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990103100248.006b8ec8@xxx.net> X-Sender: cen16176@xxx.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 10:02:48 -0600 To: diy_efi@xxx.edu From: Clarence Wood Subject: Re: fuel pumps Cc: "Mike Pilkenton" In-Reply-To: <01be36d4$daa585c0$3f7690d1@xxx.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@xxx.edu JEG'S 1-800-345-4545 At 08:52 PM 1/2/99 -0800, you wrote: >All this talk on fuel pumps brings up a question I have had. Where can I >find an aftermarket fuel pump for FI. All the ones I have seen are for >carb. engines. I need one that puts out about 50 psi for the 3.1L V6 motor >and can be mounted outside the tank. > >Mike >(3.1L V6 Opel GT conversion) > > > - --WebTV-Mail-298361717-268-- ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 10:06:39 -0700 Subject: Re: fuel pumps >JEG'S 1-800-345-4545 > >At 08:52 PM 1/2/99 -0800, you wrote: >>All this talk on fuel pumps brings up a question I have had. Where can I >>find an aftermarket fuel pump for FI. All the ones I have seen are for >>carb. engines. I need one that puts out about 50 psi for the 3.1L V6 motor >>and can be mounted outside the tank. >> >>Mike >>(3.1L V6 Opel GT conversion) >> >> >Kinsler Fuel Injection, Troy, Michigan, (248) 362-1145 stocks a wide >variety of them. Greg > ------------------------------ From: "Robert W. Hughes" Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 11:57:55 -0600 Subject: Re: 92 Corvette LT-1 > In my opinion I think it would be best to get the GM service manuals for > both vehicles so you have an accurate schematic for both wiring > harness'....then start cutting...... If this idea appeals to you check out Alldata on the web. (http://www.alldata.com/) They offer a CD with service information mostly derived from the Helms manuals and one disc with coverage of two cars would cost about $50 as opposed to $80-$120 each for the Helms. They also have the advantage of being able to print pages of the drawings which you can then mark up without destroying your expensive manuals. - -- Robert W. Hughes (Bob) BackYard Engineering Houston, Texas rwhughe@xxx.org ------------------------------ From: FHPREMACH@xxx.com Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:03:03 EST Subject: Re: fuel pumps In a message dated 1/2/99 9:49:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, mpilkent@xxx.com writes: << All this talk on fuel pumps brings up a question I have had. Where can I find an aftermarket fuel pump for FI. All the ones I have seen are for carb. engines. I need one that puts out about 50 psi for the 3.1L V6 motor and can be mounted outside the tank. Mike (3.1L V6 Opel GT conversion) >> I was at The NBAA (business jets and such) convention and talked to some people from Weldon Pump. They make some used on both normally aspirated and injected motors. They have a Motorsports Calogue, and have a number of big name racers running them. How about 180 gph at 100 psi? Very nice people to talk with. I talked with one of the engineers and he was saying that the big guys were running up around 200 psi for some of the efi racing systems. It was about a year and a half ago, but they are a big name in Aviation and other pumps. Rebuildable too. Hope the Area Codes are still good. But the address should be good. Might be a group buy situation in the making. My contact was Robert F. Milar Special Accounts Manager po box 46479 640 Golden Parkway Oakwood Village, Ohio 44146 Tel 904-797-7787 Fax 904-797-0205 Good luck, I had a 383 Opel Kadett years ago. Fred Harmon Fred Harmon Precision Machining. ------------------------------ From: FHPREMACH@xxx.com Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:17:26 EST Subject: Re: Voltage regulator In a message dated 1/2/99 10:16:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, clarencewood@xxx.net writes: << Following this thread with great interest! What is PWM?? >> PMW is Pulse Width Modulation. In motor control it is fantastic. It is used for controlling speed and torque on motors. It is the backbone of the machining industry. We have motors with encoders that control the velocity of the tables on milling machines at exact speed to acurracies of 0.0001 inch or less and can achieve velocities from 0 to over 1000 inches a minute without losing position. Computer control allows three or more to be used to contour with accuracies stated before. All this with constantly varying load for the cut and the weight of the parts. Also used in printers and plotters. it is an on/off switch of the power at a constant (usually) voltage kind of like if you using a thermostat to keep a constant temperature in your house. Just a thermostat for speed or in this case, pressure. Simple idea but the control can be fantastic in use. Has anyone started on a pressure switch controlled PMW drive. I would love to play with it. Maybe even machine some parts if need be. Fred Harmon Fred Harmon Precision Machining ------------------------------ From: Steve Ravet Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 14:19:02 -0600 Subject: Re: 92 Corvette LT-1 I know you're not supposed to followup your own posts, but I forgot to mention a couple things: For sure you'll want the schematics for both cars. I'd recommend buying both factory service manuals from Helm. Expensive, but not much compared with what you've already got in it (and what's left to spend...) I have an Alldata CD and personally I'm not impressed. If I were doing it again I'd put the money towards a Helm manual. Other people like the Alldata CD, though. Also, you may want to look at the TPI/TBI engine swapping manual from Jags that run (www.jagsthatrun.com) It's aimed at putting EFI engines into older non-EFI cars but it has some good words on wiring. Some good advice that the JTR book had was make the engine think it's in the original car as much as possible. That means using all the accessories and sensors from the original car (even things like the charcoal cannister). That reduces the amount of hacking you have to do on the harness. Sit down with both schematics and figure out all the wiring in advance. I typed it all into a spreadsheet. Then take it outside and start cutting. - --steve > > I have a 92 Camaro that had a v-6 in it, I recently purchased a 92 Corvette > > LT-1 motor with both computers (the ECM, and the CCM ). My big problem is > > figuring out how to wire the new motor. I know of a few aftermarket companies > > that sell wiring harnesses, but they are pretty expensive and I don't know if > > I really need them because I have the stock Corvette harness. I am also > > curious if I need to disable the VATS or can I wire it up to the module > > currently in my 92 Camaro? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. - -- Steve Ravet sravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, INC www.arm.com ------------------------------ From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:18:05 -0800 Subject: RE: corvairs????? funny you mention this, I am thinking of buying a 67' corvair and I was thinking about this. there are the tube manifold adapters that would allow you to run a tbi system. otherwise you might need the '140 hp heads and then you might be able to drill holes for injectors. Clark's sells 140 heads as well as I think corvair underground. I would think a gm v-6 system would do the trick. something of the same or slightly larger displacement. Ted. - -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Willis [mailto:darkmonahue@xxx.com] Sent: Sunday, January 03, 1999 12:11 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: corvairs????? Roger Anderson wrote: > Anbody know of someone who might have adapted an efi system for a > corvair engine? > rog > > bucks, we just ran out of time... Er, check some 'Vair pages on the web...I've seen one that was turbo'd, intercooled etc. If you want to go big money, try TWM - they have throttle bodies in the Weber IDA-3 pattern. Porsche Bosch componentry might also be available slightly cheaper(?) if you can find used. Good Luck! Aaron ------------------------------ From: Steve Ravet Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 14:37:31 -0600 Subject: PICs and X-10 This is way off topic so if you can help me please reply privately. I'm helping my brother-in-law with a project using PIC microcontrollers along with X-10 home automation stuff. Specifically I want to use a PIC to control a TW523 interface module. I know there are PIC experts and probably X-10 experts here, if you're one please get back to me. Thanks, - --steve - -- Steve Ravet sravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, INC www.arm.com ------------------------------ From: cosmic.ray@xxx.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:59:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Voltage regulator On Sat, 02 Jan 1999 17:20:40 PST "Bill the arcstarter" writes: >It was written: > >>>Using PWM control is better yet, as it does NOT reduce the peak >>>voltage/torque at all - it just modulates it. PWM control on a DC >>>type motor reduces speed without APPRECIABLY reducing torque. >> >>To claim that there is not enough inductance in the motor windings to >>smooth out the highs and lows of the PWM voltage notches is living in >>dreamland or a sign of having ingested too much egg-nog!! > >Actually you can (and will) instantaneously change the voltage across an >inductor (motor winding) w/o an instantaneous change in the current. >Nothing in physics says otherwise. > >I suppose the question is one of *what* damages the motor - rapid force >oscillations (caused by rapid changes in current - something which is >limited/prevented by the self-inductance of the windings) or some form >of (?) dielectric breakdown across the windings caused by rapid voltage >fluctuations... ? > >The big boys do use specially insulated magnet wire on the larger (1-10 >hp) motors designed specifically for use with chopper drives. I'm not >sure if a smaller motor (like a fuel pump) would care one way or the other. > >If you build such a chopper - be sure to include a flyback or snubber >circuit to prevent your fet/transistor from going POOF due to the >inductive kickback. :-) > >-Bill >(building a 10000 watt phase controlled SCR driver for my stick >welder) >Wanna know how to turn OFF an SCR? See my page: >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/6160/hvtank/hvtank.html I would take a lesson from the switching regulater designs. Put a diode across the source that'll be reverse biased when the "chopper" transister is on. When the transister turns off, the energy stored in the inductor would forward bias the diode. That way, the current will decay more slowly and not produce the inductive "kick". Also, I would use a high frequency. That way, the current wouldn't decay much when the transister is turned off. This would reduce the amplitude of the mechanical vibrations. Ray Drouillard ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: Orin Eman Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:14:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: fuel pumps > BMW, Ford (some), and VW/Audi all use external high pressure pumps. I am > using one from a VW on my TPI Trans Am with no starvation problems. YMMV Only some Audi. The 5000/200 series use an in-tank pump (it _can_ be R&R'd from the trunk tho'). Orin. ------------------------------ From: todd israels Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 16:48:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Voltage regulator At 01:17 PM 1/3/99 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 1/2/99 10:16:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, >clarencewood@xxx.net writes: > ><< Following this thread with great interest! What is PWM?? >> > >PMW is Pulse Width Modulation. In motor control it is fantastic. It is used >for controlling speed and torque on motors. It is the backbone of the >machining industry. We have motors with encoders that control the velocity of >the tables on milling machines at exact speed to acurracies of 0.0001 inch or >less and can achieve velocities from 0 to over 1000 inches a minute without >losing position. Computer control allows three or more to be used to contour >with accuracies stated before. All this with constantly varying load for the >cut and the weight of the parts. Also used in printers and plotters. >it is an on/off switch of the power at a constant (usually) voltage kind of >like if you using a thermostat to keep a constant temperature in your house. >Just a thermostat for speed or in this case, pressure. Simple idea but the >control can be fantastic in use. Has anyone started on a pressure switch >controlled PMW drive. I would love to play with it. Maybe even machine some >parts if need be. > >Fred Harmon >Fred Harmon Precision Machining > > I have also been following this thread. Yes PWM is a great way to control a motor, especialy if accuracy in speed or position is required. This would be of great advantage if the return line to the tank can be eliminated by using PWM and a presure sensor. There was a control modual mentioned that droped 2.4 volt at low throtel openings and could be made very simply with 3 or 4 rectifier diodes in series and a NC (so failure wont cause fule starvation) relay contact. Energize relay at low throtel openings. To activate use a microcontroler or a simple opamp 1:1 for isolation and low load and a second opamp as a comparitor to trigger. On an unEFI note Fred do you have a simple motor speed controler that has PWM output and +10,-10 volt signal input? This is for personel experimentation with a Galil Motion card(scraped due to bad axis) and cheap DC motors and surplus encoders. Simple and cheap are the main objectives, to leave more resources availabe for program development. Todd Israels ------------------------------ From: todd israels Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 16:56:13 -0500 Subject: Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 Did Dodge not use EFI on late 80's pickups and cant that be put on an older engige or swap entire engine? I dont know Dodge maybe you do have to reinvent the wheel. If you have room to the front of the engine you can swap in a Viper engine?(yes I know VERY $$ and hard to find at least in Ontario Canada) ------------------------------ From: "David A. Cooley" Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 17:13:38 -0500 Subject: Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 At 04:56 PM 1/3/99 -0500, you wrote: > Did Dodge not use EFI on late 80's pickups and cant that be put on an >older engige or swap entire engine? I dont know Dodge maybe you do have to >reinvent the wheel. If you have room to the front of the engine you can >swap in a Viper engine?(yes I know VERY $$ and hard to find at least in >Ontario Canada) > The problem with Chrysler EFI is the computers are potted and sealed... No chip to replace... Makes it kind of hot-rodder or custom unfriendly. Not sure if the 383 was ever injected though... (or what, if any, EFI parts would swap from a 360 or 318) =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: todd israels Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 17:24:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Chemical warfare At 12:12 PM 12/31/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 10:40 AM 12/31/98 -0600, you wrote: >> The FBI has set up a system where they scan all, I repeat, ALL, e-mail >>messages looking for *key words*. When their system finds one of the key >>words they begin an investigation of the individual who sent the e-mail, as >>well as those who received the mail. As an aside note: when the *hackers* >>found out about this, they liberated the key word list from the FBI and >>flooded the net with messages that contained one or more of the key words. > >Actually, the FBI has better things to do with their time. > >As for EFI content, I now have a 68HC11EVB sitting here... any suggestions >on where to start to make it a controller? (Maybe for a lawnmower first >then work my way up to the bigger stuff!) > >Later, >DAve > >=========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. >=========================================================== > This has been done by several aftermarket ECM manufacturers including a member in Australia that designed and sold a system of this type. Unfortunetly I doubt they will share much helpful information but they might since these systems are getting old and have or will be replaced with a new generation. On a more helpful note assighen I/O to devices and sensors, T chosen sensors to exsisting ones and monitor and data log these devices. I perfer Boneyard sensors that are easily replaceable at any parts store. This step is optional but should provied a good learning experince, Write your software and compare under driving conditions with factory EFI system. When all is done and working a simple batch fire or throtle body system simmaler to GM up to about 93 should be possible. I first got my 68HC11 Board for this purpose but got impatiant to drive the car and a Quadrajet was so easy and quick. Please keep me and most probably the rest of the list updated on your progress. Todd Israels ------------------------------ From: "Tom Parker" Date: 04 Jan 99 12:00:02 +1200 Subject: Re: SV: oops... (was Re: Nology) Roland Johansson wrote: >First it didn't show up in my mind but when thinking of this >idea a drawback appeared to me. All the welding helmets I been >looking thruu (two) are having a big green filter, looks like >that might be a problem. But why not have a LCD showing the >plate number and turning it off when a flash appear? >Hm, have to go to my fathers house and make a close examination >of his helmet in the evening That's a good idea! However, in this part of the world, I would expect to get nicked for it. The police won't be very impressed with a number plate that obviously isn't reflective and is probably designed to avoid them... - -- Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 16:05:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Voltage regulator >> > I have also been following this thread. Yes PWM is a great way to control >a motor, especialy if accuracy in speed or position is required. This >would be of great advantage if the return line to the tank can be >eliminated by using PWM and a presure sensor. > > Todd Israels > There was a thread a couple of months ago, on this subject--some auto mfgrs. are now beginning to do exactly this, although, I am quite certain, mostly in the interest of less parts and less fuel line, together with lower evap emissions potential, rather than in the interest of a better system. I would maintain that it would be BEST to use PWM control of the fuel pump TOGETHER WITH a mechanical pressure regulator. Belt AND suspenders approach, but it would maintain some circulation of fuel through the system (so as to keep it cool and purged of any vapor) as well as allowing extremely accurate, consistent function of the mechanical fuel pressure regulator. Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 16:30:12 -0700 Subject: Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 > Did Dodge not use EFI on late 80's pickups and cant that be put on an >older engige or swap entire engine? I dont know Dodge maybe you do have to >reinvent the wheel. If you have room to the front of the engine you can >swap in a Viper engine?(yes I know VERY $$ and hard to find at least in >Ontario Canada) I think he's already up to using a 383 ("B" big block). These and the "RB"s (raised deck) went away I think in '76 or so, before EFI. A 383 (or better yet a 413/426/440 RB) is so far superior to a 318/340/360 as to be almost funny. Have not heard a lot of noise one way or the other yet, but I have not heard of many V-10's in things like boats yet. Nor have I seen any Moparts aftermarket advertising for V-10's. The fact that the same folks are resurrecting the elephant (426 Hemi) prolly speaks pretty powerfully to which block is the better one!! I would almost bet that you could acquire a new Hemi for the same money as a low mileage Viper motor!! May well be close to the same story for a low mileage V-10 truck motor!! And I know EXACTLY how I would choose to spend the loot if it were me doing it!!! If nothing else is at hand, I am sure that Blower Drive Service could whistle up an intake set up for (port) injectors for a B (or an RB) engine. But watch it, the manifold for an RB is wider on account of the higher decks. Yes, manifold spacers are commonly available. But I have never seen any "unspacers"!! Maybe someone who specializes in rescuing and deprogramming "Moonies" could help with this, though! :-) Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 17:23:43 -0700 Subject: Re: SV: oops... (was Re: Nology) >Roland Johansson wrote: > >>First it didn't show up in my mind but when thinking of this >>idea a drawback appeared to me. All the welding helmets I been >>looking thruu (two) are having a big green filter, looks like >>that might be a problem. But why not have a LCD showing the >>plate number and turning it off when a flash appear? >>Hm, have to go to my fathers house and make a close examination >>of his helmet in the evening > >That's a good idea! However, in this part of the world, I would expect to get >nicked for it. The police won't be very impressed with a number plate that >obviously isn't reflective and is probably designed to avoid them... Nope, I like the idea of shining a light, filtered through a filter same color as one of the major plate colors, and mottled, at the plate, and triggering the light on, plus a delay on, either with a radar detector or a the flash, or maybe the flash detection as a back-up to the radar detector (belt and suspenders again)! Might not need the mottling of the light if, for instance with a white on green plate, the filtered light could make the white numbers look just as green as the green field of the plate to the black and white film in the camera! But it seems as though if you mottled the light in the two colors of the plate, it would get virtually impossible to read the numbers off the film! Maybe a light filtered with a rotating filter giving alternation between the two colors. or two alternating strobes, one filtered to match each of the major colors of the plate could wash out the film the best. Regards, Greg > >-- >Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz > - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ From: H Villemure Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 17:44:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread Thank you Dave, this is pretty impressive on a V engine with single turbo. Did they come with T03 turbos? What turbine and compressor trims? Also, I would like to know if they had a symmetric exhaust manifold? Else I would not put big money on the car's lifetime? > A Stock (FACTORY) Grand national will whip out mid 13's in 70 degree > weather on factory tires... this is on 17PSI boost > They are 3.8L (231 CI) > Factory rated them at 245 HP, 330 Lb/Ft torque... A factory car on a dyno > was putting 245HP at the rear wheels! > That made crank HP about 300. > For very few dollars (Bypass the catalytic converter, new chip and better > tires) the GN's would nail high 12 second 1/4 mile times at 106-107MPH... > For $1000, you could have low 12's. > This is all with a 3500 Lb car!!! > > Lawrence Conley of Humble, TX took his 86GN and got it running 9.90's. > Factory block, forged pistons, ported/polished heads, bigger cam, bigger > turbo etc... And it was as streetable as the day it was bought (Except > getting in and out of the roll cage was a pain!) > His last TR, an 83 regal with a stage II 4.1L V6 was 1200+ HP, and ran a > best of 7.83 @xxx. all on a single turbo, no Nitrous, > and on 117 octane VP C16 racing fuel. > > Later, > Dave - -- Helene V. ___________________ "If it ain't broke, make it faster" Celica Supra 1982 & 1983 Owners of the great Celica Supra cars welcome to mk2@xxx.com :) ------------------------------ From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 20:41:52 EST Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread In a message dated 1/3/99 8:06:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, memvive@xxx.ca writes: > > this is pretty impressive on a V engine with single turbo. Did they come > with T03 turbos? What turbine and compressor trims? Also, I would like > to know if they had a symmetric exhaust manifold? Else I would not put > big money on the car's lifetime? > ------------------------------ From: Vance Rose Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 17:47:08 -0800 Subject: Re: Engine book At 11:39 PM 1/2/1999 EST, you wrote: >Jerry, > I work in Pacoima Ca., but I don't want to make you waste your time driving >to loan a book to a stranger. If you think the book is worth it I will order >it from a catalogue so I can have a copy of it for my small, but growing >library of car stuff. I am currently waiting for a couple of books I ordered >from Summit Racing. One of them is from JTR (Jaguars That Run) I guess they >specialize in that sort of thing too. I appreciate the offer though (and if I >can't find one I might take you up on it after all). >Jeff > >Hi All Jtr has several book available. Can order direct. They also have a webb page with info on their books. Just do a webb search for jtr. Vance ------------------------------ From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 20:55:28 EST Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread Yep, don't have one, but have played with chips for a number of friends, and It's very impressive when a 3700 lb family car with air conditioning, power windows, power sunroof (you get the idea) can drive to the drag strip, bolt on a set of stickies and turn 10's. That's with a big turbo, bigger intercooler and injectors, but that's still pretty impressive. The Buick V6 (pushrod, 2 valve) engine is really a work horse. BTW, they have a 'sort of' stainless tube header arrangement. .I believe the stock turbo was a T3.. The web site has tons of info at: http://ni.umd.edu/gnttype/www/ Mike V > > this is pretty impressive on a V engine with single turbo. Did they come > with T03 turbos? What turbine and compressor trims? Also, I would like > to know if they had a symmetric exhaust manifold? Else I would not put > big money on the car's lifetime? > ------------------------------ From: Al Lipper Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 17:45:54 -0800 Subject: Plans for complete EFI system now online (ECU6) have recently completed a near-final phase of a throttle-body EFI system. It is a complete adaptive learning system for which I have provided schematics, PC board layout and software. I'm also interested in other's feedback and ideas. Anyway, you can check it out at: http://members.aol.com/ALIPPER/ Al ------------------------------ From: "David A. Cooley" Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 21:38:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread At 05:44 PM 1/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >Thank you Dave, > >this is pretty impressive on a V engine with single turbo. Did they come >with T03 turbos? What turbine and compressor trims? Also, I would like >to know if they had a symmetric exhaust manifold? Else I would not put >big money on the car's lifetime? > I think the factory was a variant of the T03, but can't remember for sure. I believe the exhaust housing was a .60 or .62 A/R. The exhaust manifolds were "kind of" tubular headers... Fairly equal length runners. In stock trim and modified with chips, boost cranked up, cooler thermostat etc, they will run 150,000 miles with no problems (If they are well maintained)... According to the man that designed the GN engine (Bernard Santavy) the engine was built to handle 600HP reliably. Later, Dave =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: Pedro Haynes Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 22:48:46 -0400 Subject: TurboS I am truing to find some Nissan Zparts Any one know where to find the Z18 turbo, or the head manifolds, and turbo or the whole engine? Pedro. ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #5 *************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".