DIY_EFI Digest Monday, 4 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 008 In this issue: Re: GM V6 Re: Need H_elp with an 89 MPFI 2.8 V6 (Need MAF...) Re: GM V6 Re: Injector Duty Monitor Re: Turbo header tuning I'm back Re: fuel pumps Re: Turbo header tuning Re: Need H_elp with an 89 MPFI 2.8 V6 (Need MAF...) Re: Water Injection Thread Re: [Fwd: EFI software] Re: Injector Duty Monitor Re: Water Injection Thread IAC controller circuit Re: [Fwd: EFI software] Re: Injector Duty Monitor Re: 92 Corvette LT-1 Re: Injector Duty Monitor Re: IAC controller circuit Re: Injector Duty Monitor Re: Water Injection Thread Re: Injector Duty Monitor 460 EFI Re: IAC controller circuit Re: Injector Duty Monitor Re: Water Injection Thread See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gary Derian" Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 12:03:26 -0500 Subject: Re: GM V6 The Syclone/Typhoon uses the Chevy 4.3 liter V-6, not the Buick 3.8 V-6. The Buick is 3/4 of old 215 V-8 (stretched with a taller deck, longer stroke, bigger bore) as you said. The 4.3 Chevy V-6 is 3/4 of a 350 Chevy V-8. Gary Derian >can get pretty confusing, but basically the Buick V6 has been around since >the early '60s and is a child of the aluminum Buick 215 cum Rover 3.5 V8. >It has been sold in Jeeps, passenger cars in probably all of GM's >divisions, etc. The turbo versions are available in Buick Regals (of which >a Grand National is one), primarily, with a few going into GMC >Syclone/Typhoon trucklets (would that make them utelets to you? :-) and >Anniversary Edition Trans Ams. There are probably others that got the >turbo. > Engine is still produced, I believe, and is available in supercharged >form in the Pontiac Grand Prix. > >Now will you please explain Australia's muscle car era to me? > >Aaron ------------------------------ From: "Peter Fenske" Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 09:49:05 -0800 Subject: Re: Need H_elp with an 89 MPFI 2.8 V6 (Need MAF...) Howday Best way to check a FM MAF is with a scope. Use a reg scope or an ignition analyzer in the low volts position. You should see a steady square wave which changes frequency with airflow :peter ------------------------------ From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:05:23 EST Subject: Re: GM V6 In a message dated 1/4/99 12:47:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, gderian@xxx.net writes: > The Syclone/Typhoon uses the Chevy 4.3 liter V-6, not the Buick 3.8 V-6. > The Buick is 3/4 of old 215 V-8 (stretched with a taller deck, longer > stroke, bigger bore) as you said. The 4.3 Chevy V-6 is 3/4 of a 350 Chevy > V-8. Gary is correct.. 4 of my friends have Turbo Buicks, and other than the cigarete lighter, and some metric bolts, not much interchanges with my Syclone. Worth mentioning, is that the Buick has stronger pistons, similar flowing ex-ports, 30-35% better intake ports, Smoother idle and beter off-idle response (maybe due to SFI?).. About the only thing they don't do better than the Syclone pickup is haul manure.. HTH Mike V ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:14:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor - -----Original Message----- From: steve ravet To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 12:46 PM Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor Yes, but after you do the zip thing......... He mentioned pwmeter, which is zip, ya fine, unzip, and I still can't see anything, other than a drop down window. Just for grins try something with a .asm file extension, on a windows machine. Some of us don't make a living with this stuff, and hit dead ends. Yes I do have the winzip, and that ain't the problem. It's what comes next...... Bruce Sorry but I've asked this a couple times and all I get is use winzip, and that has nothing to do with what I'm asking.. Depends on the file type. For most of the files on the FTP site, I'm not asking about most, I'm asking about pwmeter........ you >just select "save to disk" or something like that and tell it where to >save it. Netscape asks you that when it sees a file type that it >doesn't know how to display (like .zip, .exe, others). If you download >and install winzip (like from www.shareware.com) it'll "register" the >.zip extension, so the next time you click on a .zip file netscape will >know to run winzip for it. Same with .pdf if you install acrobat >reader, etc. > >As far as reading duty cycle, couldn't you make up a circuit with an >opamp buffer, and a resistor/capacitor to filter the signal, then read >the voltage with a digital voltmeter? 0v=0%, 12v=100%? Ya, I could if I wanted to study to be an EE. So I just plug along with a dwell meter... If I wanted that thou, I wouldn't ask for the other. I'd really like to read to at least .x, if not .xx, thou......... > >Or, just go buy a cheap analog voltmeter with a needle. It's reading >will vary from 0-12 depending on duty cycle. > >--steve > >> >> Hi >> >> I have some time ago posted a file to the ftp site in the incoming >> directory.The name of the file is pwmeter.zip >> >> It measures the on time of the injector in milliseconds to 0.1 ms >> resolution if I remember correctly.Resolution could be increased. >> >> If somebody is willing to give me some idea or specification or an >> example of what needs to be measured, I could change the code to do >> this. >> Is this referenced to rpm or is it just the on versus off time >> of the injector. >> >> Regards >> Georg >> Georg Lerm >> Chief Technician >> Clinical Engineering >> Red Cross Hospital >> Cape Town >> South Africa >> Tel. +27 21 658-5120 >> Fax. +27 21 658-5120 > ------------------------------ From: Clarence Wood Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 12:00:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Turbo header tuning Clive, have thought that pre-turbo tuning would help but everyone I have spoken to has claimed minimal benefits. Would really like to hear more on the subject. At 11:03 AM 1/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >> >> Header tuning is done to help scavenge the cylinder and ensure a clean fresh >> charge. Turbo charging does the same thing by increasing the pressure at >> the intake side. The turbine on the exhaust side represents a restriction. >> If it didn't the turbine wouldn't turn! As such, no tuning of the exhaust >> is going to help move the gases through the pipes any faster or better. You >> could make the turbine less restrictive but this is tuning the turbo to >> higher rpms with more lag time on the bottom end. > >totally wrong >because turbo exhausts are operating under higher pressures >they are even more responsive to exhaust tuning than NA cars >properly designed headers befroe a turbo cna make massive power gains > >Clive > > ------------------------------ From: rauscher@xxx.com Date: Mon, 04 Jan 99 13:33:04 -0500 Subject: I'm back Wow, I go away for a few weeks, and look at this: Water injection PWM fuel pumps and My favorite: blowing up Buick engines (wish I was there). Not only that, but I've not even caught up yet. To the AZTY question guy, Sorry 'about not answering, but I hope that Bruce summed it up well enough. Now, on to what I've been doing. What, with the holidays and all, had a little free time. Have a working Bi-Phase stepper motor controller circuit up and running. I'll be writing this up and putting it into the 'incoming' area. (Oh, this is for control of GM IAC's) Uses four chips, TTL/CMOS, real simple. Run/single step, forward/reverse, and variable speed. Also have a better write-up on how to modify GM TBI fuel pressure regulators. I've modified one, so I figured I'd do a write-up on it. Most likely will help out someone in the future (if anything, after reading this, they may opt out and just buy one). About the PWM fuel pumps. If anyone's interested I have a circuit that I've used to control R/C electric motors and I also used it for a HO model train engine controller. I'll see if I can find it. The actual PWM creation circuit is simple, just a comparator and some resistors and a capacitor. Use this to drive whatever transistor, MOSFET, IGBT is suited to cranking on the volts to the fuel pump. BobR. I guess you could say I've had a cone shaped hat on for a bit... (had to remove it whence welding on the Wife's Buick, interfered with the helmet). - -- ------------------------------ From: andy quaas Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:42:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: fuel pumps accel makes one. Its expensive, but they make one. Andy - ---EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com wrote: > > In a message dated 1/2/99 9:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, mpilkent@xxx.com > writes: > > << Subj: Re: fuel pumps > Date: 1/2/99 9:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time > From: mpilkent@xxx.com (Mike Pilkenton) > Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > All this talk on fuel pumps brings up a question I have had. Where can I > find an aftermarket fuel pump for FI. All the ones I have seen are for > carb. engines. I need one that puts out about 50 psi for the 3.1L V6 motor > and can be mounted outside the tank. > > Mike > (3.1L V6 Opel GT conversion) > >> > Mallory 4060 FI (good for approx 300hp) or if your really making some power > use a 5110 FI (good for approx 1150 hp)...usually $135 and $250 > respectively....... > -Carl Summers > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:13:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Turbo header tuning > > Clive, have thought that pre-turbo tuning would help but everyone I have spoken to has claimed minimal benefits. Would really like to hear more on the subject. read Hugh McInnes book on turbos he recommends full header systems for turbo engines Clive > > >> Header tuning is done to help scavenge the cylinder and ensure a clean fresh > >> charge. Turbo charging does the same thing by increasing the pressure at > >> the intake side. The turbine on the exhaust side represents a restriction. > >> If it didn't the turbine wouldn't turn! As such, no tuning of the exhaust > >> is going to help move the gases through the pipes any faster or better. You > >> could make the turbine less restrictive but this is tuning the turbo to > >> higher rpms with more lag time on the bottom end. > > > >totally wrong > >because turbo exhausts are operating under higher pressures > >they are even more responsive to exhaust tuning than NA cars > >properly designed headers befroe a turbo cna make massive power gains > > ------------------------------ From: thergen@xxx.net Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:42:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Need H_elp with an 89 MPFI 2.8 V6 (Need MAF...) I had a 2.8 with a bad MAF. Rapping on the MAF with a screw driver (don't smash it) would cause the car to stumble at idle. I think the car had about 20k miles on it at the time. With a bad MAF, I found drivability was acceptable (not great) if I simply disconnected the MAF. There was a MAP only prom available (search the TSBs) for my application that could be used instead of replacing a bad MAF. At 115k miles, the alternator went bad (I think the six year old battery contributed to its death). It was the 100 amp model. The diode bridge was partially visible (remove plastic cover off back of alternator case) and the diode's package looked blistered from heat. It ran very hot compared to the replacement unit. Silicone may not have been the best choice for sealing the [air] temp sensor. The O2 sensor may be affected. Anyone have comments on this? The same vehicle could also develope an unstable idle after highway driving while sitting at a stop light for an extended period. It turns out the O2 sensor was lazy, but no trouble codes were set. Replacing the O2 sensor fixed the problem. Chicago huh? Is your S10 4wd? I felt fortunate to get a plane out of there after the holidays before the snow hit. hth, Tom On Mon, 4 Jan 1999, Kurek, Larry wrote: > Guys: > > I am having a slight problem with the 2.8 MPFI motor I put in my S10 in > place of the old carb motor with the hole in the side of the block :) > > I was driving home last night and it started cuting out at anything between > off idle to about half throttle...kind of like it was running out of gas, > but it wasn't since I JUST filled up the tank. The fuel pump is new, and is > getting great pressure, so I don't think it is a fuel problem. However...the > motor seemed to fix itself and run great again. No SES light either. Once I > got home, I decided to check the obvious....coil connectors, wires, etc > etc...all seemed fine. However, after a quick test drive, I popped the hood > and it almost died out on me.. came back, and set an SES light...code 34, > low MAF reading. So, I backprobed the MAF connector and all was OK, I > checked for any loose connections and didn't see any either, so i reset the > ECM and it seemed OK. Well, on the drive to work this morning, same damn > thing. Again, a code 34. One of the causes for this code is a leak between > the MAF and the throttle body. I checked this as well, and the only thing > that MAY be a problem, is the temperature sensor bung I siliconed into the > elbow. The silicone looks to have pulled back just a bit and there may be a > SLIGHT opening into the elbow. Could this be enough to cause a problem? I > can't emphasize enough how small of a leak this may be. Are these MAF > sensors that sensitive? FWIW, I am also running an open element K&N filter, > and it has recently gotten quite cold here (Chicago area). > > Sooo....any ideas? How do I go about testing the MAF itself? Like I > mentioned above...the connector checks out fine with +B, ground, and +5v. > > Does anyone have a spare MAF that they would be willing to part with? This > is a three wire MAF out of an 89 Camaro 2.8 V6. It isn't the hot wire > variety, but seems to use a thermistor instead? > > Finally, I did note that the lights on the car dim on occasion for a few > seconds at a time. Could this be a bad alternator? Could this cause the > problems with the MAF? I'm stretching here guys...I don't want to get > stranded in sub-zero temperatures in the middle of nowhere... > > Thanks! > > > Larry > ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:09:23 -0700 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread >> >> Header tuning is done to help scavenge the cylinder and ensure a clean fresh >> charge. Turbo charging does the same thing by increasing the pressure at >> the intake side. The turbine on the exhaust side represents a restriction. >> If it didn't the turbine wouldn't turn! As such, no tuning of the exhaust >> is going to help move the gases through the pipes any faster or better. You >> could make the turbine less restrictive but this is tuning the turbo to >> higher rpms with more lag time on the bottom end. > >totally wrong >because turbo exhausts are operating under higher pressures >they are even more responsive to exhaust tuning than NA cars >properly designed headers befroe a turbo cna make massive power gains > >Clive OK--time for my $.02!! Clive is absolutely right. I am becoming convinced as time goes by that tube volume is the essential factor in the design of ANY header--it appears to me that it wants to be about 125--140% of individual cylinder displacement. Larger diameter, and shorter for higher rev ranges, smaller diameter and longer for lower rev ranges, but always in the stated volume range. MAYBE slightly larger diameter for headers on a turbo, cuz the gas in them is denser, and therefore suffers more friction loss in flowing through a given tube size. Sound velocity in a gas (of a given molecular weight) varies ONLY with temperature, so tubes for a turbo motor may also want to be a bit LONGER, cuz they are HOTTER. The tricky part with turbo headers is that any turbine, at a given mass flow rate, will make the same power at a lower pressure ratio if the inlet temp to it is HIGHER. And, since the outlet pressure of the turbine is predetermined by the atmosphere and the exhaust system, lower inlet temps to the turbo mean more back-pressure on the engine, and therefore less net output at the same boost level. Therefore, to make turbo headers work properly, and to really see HOW MUCH GOOD they REALLY do for an engine's performance, you DAMN WELL HAVE TO insulate them--(we all know how much heat tube headers throw off!!) And , if you are going to insulate the exhaust on a turbo motor, it had damn well better either be cast out of duriron (very high nickel cast iron) or fabricated properly (spelled TIG welding done with a full internal argon purge) out of 321 and/or 347 stainless steel. (If you want it to last for any length of time.) I do not think that any of us think that Hooker fabricates their headers at this level of technology. (And I kinda doubt that they have anybody who would have a clue where to start!) The fact that headers made the right way out of 321 SS work, and with extremely high reliability, has been well proven on huge radials by people like Curtiss-Wright and Pratt & Whitney. If you do not have the resources to do it yourself, Burns Stainless, for one, can do whatever you might want, the right way, in 321 SS, or is quite happy to sell you the bits and pieces with which to do it yourself. BUT, it AIN"T cheap, even just to purchase the materials!!! Now for the more sophisticated stuff. First of all, any turbine runs more efficiently with a STEADY inlet pressure. Any engine runs more efficiently with tube headers--turboed or not. How to reconcile these two things?? It is known as a pressure recovery accumulator. If you have room, (a mighty big if) run the header tubes into a typical, properly sized convergent-divergent collector, and THEN run the megaphone from the collector into an accumulator chamber which feeds the gas to the turbine, at a fairly steady pressure. This pressure will also be distinctly higher than the pressure which the engine "sees" at the throuat of the collector (you are now converting the velocity energy in the exhaust gasses back into static pressure with a reasonable degree of efficiency!) The next place where there is a LOT of unexplored potential (and less need for room to explore it) is at the outlet of the turbine. The gas comes out of the turbine in a tight spiral at a velocity of about Mach .75 in most cases. Most downpipe designs just dump it into a way bigger pipe, creating a jump to lower velocity, turbulent flow, an extremely inefficient process. There is a lot of room for creative thinking in fabricating a downpipe transition piece which would convert some of this (very significant amount of) velocity energy in the gasses back into static pressure as the gas enters the downpipe! Why would this help?? cuz the turbine would now "see" a static pressure at its outlet which might even be below the atmospheric pressure at the end of the tailpipe!! And because , at given temperature and mass flow conditions, turbines make power depending on the absolute pressure ratio across them, you would get the same turbine power output with less backpressure on the engine, and, therefore, more power for free. YES, you would need a bigger turbine wheel and housing, cuz the DENSITY of the gas flowing through the turbine would be lower at the now lower pressures even though the mass flow would be the same. Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: "Gregory A. Parmer" Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:45:58 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Fwd: EFI software] On Sat, 2 Jan 1999, Steve Ravet wrote: > Didn't someone upload the fit.zip file that went with the injector > flowbench article from PE magazine? I thought so, but I can't find it. > Anyway, if someone has it, or knows where it is on the FTP site, please > let me know so I can help this person, and add a link in the FTP site > index. thanks I had been looking for it, then someone else posted it. Grab it from "ftp://ftp.acesag.auburn.edu/pub/users/gparmer". Included are "fit.zip" and "fitphoto.zip". I think fitphoto may be software John (?) used to take pictures for the magazine. Happy Testing, - -greg ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 14:48:42 -0600 Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: steve ravet > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 12:46 PM > Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor > > Yes, but after you do the zip thing......... He mentioned pwmeter, which is > zip, > ya fine, unzip, and I still can't see anything, other than a drop down > window. > Just for grins try something with a .asm file extension, on a windows > machine. > Some of us don't make a living with this stuff, and hit dead ends. > Yes I do have the winzip, and that ain't the problem. It's what comes > next...... OK. In the case of pwmeter, you get these files: PWMETER.C AT892051.H PWMETER.HEX PWMETER.PS PWMETER.S01 PWMETER.TXT pwmeter.txt is a document that tells you what everything else is pwmeter.c is a C program, along with at892051.h. You need a C compiler to use these, and it needs to be specific to the device that you are going to put the program into (looks like an Atmel microcontroller, similar to PIC). pwmeter.hex is a hex file. That's the end result of compiling the C program, and the .hex file is ready to be read into a device programmer. pwmeter.ps is a postscript file, can be read by the program "ghostscript" or can be sent straight to a postscript printer. Most likely a schematic. pwmeter.s01 is a schematic that could be read by Tango schematic software, if you had it. Since you probably don't, just print out the postscript file instead. With that said, the pwmeter.txt is skimpy on details. How exactly does this thing tell you what the pulse width is? I don't have ghostscript installed so I can't read the .ps file. Georg, got any more details? - --steve ------------------------------ From: "Gary Derian" Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:01:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread Good info, Greg. One question, though. Wouldn't the sound energy in the exhaust from a tuned system direct more energy to the exhaust turbine? Turbines may like to have a steady flow but shouldn't additional energy help? I thought that was the idea behind dual scroll exhaust housings. A megaphone would convert velocity into pressure but the exhaust ultimately has to speed up again (and drop pressure) to flow through the exhaust housing. Gary Derian >snip< >Now for the more sophisticated stuff. First of all, any turbine runs more >efficiently with a STEADY inlet pressure. Any engine runs more efficiently >with tube headers--turboed or not. How to reconcile these two things?? It >is known as a pressure recovery accumulator. If you have room, (a mighty >big if) run the header tubes into a typical, properly sized >convergent-divergent collector, and THEN run the megaphone from the >collector into an accumulator chamber which feeds the gas to the turbine, >at a fairly steady pressure. This pressure will also be distinctly higher >than the pressure which the engine "sees" at the throuat of the collector >(you are now converting the velocity energy in the exhaust gasses back into >static pressure with a reasonable degree of efficiency!) > >Regards, Greg > ------------------------------ From: rauscher@xxx.com Date: Mon, 04 Jan 99 16:03:23 -0500 Subject: IAC controller circuit OK, finally got it together. I finished the schematics and the write-up on the stepper motor control circuit. It's all been uploaded to the 'incoming' site. Files: Stepdrv.txt The what/how/why and where. StepDrv1.gif Image, page 1 of schematics StepDrv2.gif Image, page 2 of schematics Now, before anybody jumps up and down about the hand drawn schematics, well, I'm a software guy. I almost had to use a crayon ;) {the sharpest nearby items are the corners on my keyboard}. The purpose of this circuit/project is to be able to control the IAC by itself. That is, you can extend or retract the pintle at will. This is a stand-alone controller. Have fun, any questions, I'll be here for awhile. (At least 'til next vacation/holiday). BobR. Who put silly-putty on the point of his cone shaped hat 'lest I cut myself. - -- ------------------------------ From: "HP User" Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:29:31 -0800 Subject: Re: [Fwd: EFI software] Thanks Greg and Steve, I have it now and will look it over to see if it may help me. Thankyou again. Randy - ---------- > From: Gregory A. Parmer > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Cc: Steve Ravet Subject: Re: [Fwd: EFI software] > Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 12:45 PM > > > On Sat, 2 Jan 1999, Steve Ravet wrote: > > Didn't someone upload the fit.zip file that went with the injector > > flowbench article from PE magazine? I thought so, but I can't find it. > > Anyway, if someone has it, or knows where it is on the FTP site, please > > let me know so I can help this person, and add a link in the FTP site > > index. thanks > > I had been looking for it, then someone else posted it. Grab it > from "ftp://ftp.acesag.auburn.edu/pub/users/gparmer". Included are > "fit.zip" and "fitphoto.zip". I think fitphoto may be software > John (?) used to take pictures for the magazine. > > Happy Testing, > -greg > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:04:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor - -----Original Message----- From: steve ravet To: diy_efi Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 4:01 PM Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor So it's still a matter of having the secret decoder ring to be able to use it. Bruce > > PWMETER.C > AT892051.H > PWMETER.HEX > PWMETER.PS > PWMETER.S01 > PWMETER.TXT > > >pwmeter.txt is a document that tells you what everything else is > >pwmeter.c is a C program, along with at892051.h. You need a C compiler >to use these, and it needs to be specific to the device that you are >going to put the program into (looks like an Atmel microcontroller, >similar to PIC). > >pwmeter.hex is a hex file. That's the end result of compiling the C >program, and the .hex file is ready to be read into a device programmer. > >pwmeter.ps is a postscript file, can be read by the program >"ghostscript" or can be sent straight to a postscript printer. Most >likely a schematic. > >pwmeter.s01 is a schematic that could be read by Tango schematic >software, if you had it. Since you probably don't, just print out the >postscript file instead. > >With that said, the pwmeter.txt is skimpy on details. How exactly does >this thing tell you what the pulse width is? I don't have ghostscript >installed so I can't read the .ps file. Georg, got any more details? > >--steve > ------------------------------ From: mitcho Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 14:22:42 -0800 Subject: Re: 92 Corvette LT-1 At 02:19 PM 1/3/99 -0600, Steve Ravet wrote: >Also, you may want to look at the TPI/TBI engine swapping manual from >Jags that run (www.jagsthatrun.com) It's aimed at putting EFI engines >into older non-EFI cars but it has some good words on wiring. The "Chevrolet TPI & TBI Engine Swapping" book advertised at Steve Smith Autosports (http://www.ssapubl.com/prod06a.html) Jerry is talking about *is* the manual mentioned above by Mike Knell of Jags That Run. It is also available from Summit and no doubt other folks. It is an excellent book for someone who has never done this sort of thing before. My own plans include fuel injection for a variety of sixties V8 Chevrolets as well as a basic V8 conversion of a Jaguar XJ-6 Series I. At the risk of making him hate me, I'll mention that Mike Knell's email address is available at the JTR Webpage, and he does personally answer his email. For all I know he's a member of this mailing list. Mitch - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mitch Barrie's Chevelles: http://www.employees.org/~ozyman/carstuff Southern California Chevelle Caminos: http://www.chevelles.net/scccc ------------------------------ From: "Gregory A. Parmer" Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:51:37 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Khoo Teck-Khoon wrote: > I've searched the archives but could not find anything relevant. I am > interested to make my own injector duty monitor..sort of like the > air/fuel ratio..Can this be done? I am not very familiar with For a relative sort of deal, see http://sura1.jlab.org/~bowling/fieye.html It is a *very* simple idea. For more accurate results, an analog voltmeter connected to the ECM side of the injector should give reasonable data...as in 12v=0% duty cycle, 0v=100% duty cycle. - -greg ------------------------------ From: Clarence Wood Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:54:58 -0600 Subject: Re: IAC controller circuit Wonderful! But, how do I access the 'incoming' site? At 04:03 PM 1/4/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >OK, finally got it together. I finished the schematics and >the write-up on the stepper motor control circuit. It's all >been uploaded to the 'incoming' site. > >Files: > >Stepdrv.txt The what/how/why and where. >StepDrv1.gif Image, page 1 of schematics >StepDrv2.gif Image, page 2 of schematics > > >Now, before anybody jumps up and down about the hand >drawn schematics, well, I'm a software guy. I almost >had to use a crayon ;) {the sharpest nearby items are >the corners on my keyboard}. > >The purpose of this circuit/project is to be able to >control the IAC by itself. That is, you can extend or >retract the pintle at will. This is a stand-alone >controller. > >Have fun, any questions, I'll be here for awhile. (At >least 'til next vacation/holiday). > > >BobR. > >Who put silly-putty on the point of his cone shaped >hat 'lest I cut myself. > > >-- > > > ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 18:08:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor >http://sura1.jlab.org/~bowling/fieye.html >It is a *very* simple idea. Very simple idea, however I'd buffer the LED using a CMOS 4049 inverter or possibly a 4011 quad nand wired as an inverter, as it accomplishes the same thing, but doesn't allow the LED to draw ANY current off the injector. Prolly wouldn't make a difference, but why waste current :) Just a thought. As far as using a meter, obviously an analog meter would be better, as the response to things would be slower than a digital, even though digital meters display every 1/4 or 1/8 of a second. Just something about a needle that I still like :) Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 Homebrew Automotive Website: http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HMMWV 1973 Lincoln Continental (460cid) 1975 Dodge D200 3/4 ton Club Cab 2000 Buick-Powered Mid-Engined Sports Car - - ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:28:12 -0700 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread Gary Derian wrote--- Wouldn't the sound energy in the exhaust from a tuned system direct more energy to the exhaust turbine? >Turbines may like to have a steady flow but shouldn't additional energy >help? Additional energy is always good--I think the real question here is how good you can make your convergent-divergent collector nozzle and how good you can make the convergent nozzle from the accumulator to the turbine--if the gain in turbine efficiency from having a steady feed pressure and velocity exceeds the nozzle losses, you will have won, if not, converging the collector directly into the turbine nozzle might well do better. Somehow, I think that building some stuff, and instrumenting it properly, and testing it would be a whole lot easier than trying to do the calcs!!! I thought that was the idea behind dual scroll exhaust housings. It kind of is, but I think the idea of the split housings is even more to prevent interference between exhaust pulses from adjacent cylinders in the firing order as they are fed into the turbine nozzle(s). A megaphone would convert velocity into pressure but the exhaust ultimately >has to speed up again (and drop pressure) to flow through the exhaust >housing. It sure does--but what calcs I HAVE done indicate that the gas velocity coming out of the turbine feed nozzle(s) needs to about match the velocity of the tips of the turbine blades for decent turbine efficiency to happen--this velocity is again about Mach .75 AVERAGE in a typical case. Get too much pulsation at this point, and you will begin to get Mach 1 (choked) flow--ain't no more gas gonna go through the nozzle--so things will get seriously constipated during part of the pulse, and screw up the header tuning. At Mach .75, it wouldn't really take much pulsation at all to produce an increase in back pressure, either, even if you are not pulsing it strongly enough to choke it. Which is kinda why I think smoothing the flow out might be a net win, even though there are losses through two more nozzles to make up for. DO NOT misunderstand me, these wanderings are theoretical conjecture at best--if I shut up and build something, test it, and it proves out, then I would (and will!) be more forceful about it! > Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: "Walter Sherwin" Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:36:27 -0800 Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor Another thought..............how about an old "surplus" oscilloscope hooked up to the injector circuit. This would provide a pretty good visual/graphical representation of duty cycle and phasing? Various companies also manufacture "plug-n-play" notebook oriented automotive oscilloscope modules. Have fun; Walt. - -----Original Message----- From: Gregory A. Parmer To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 3:25 PM Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor > >On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Khoo Teck-Khoon wrote: >> I've searched the archives but could not find anything relevant. I am >> interested to make my own injector duty monitor..sort of like the >> air/fuel ratio..Can this be done? I am not very familiar with > >For a relative sort of deal, see >http://sura1.jlab.org/~bowling/fieye.html >It is a *very* simple idea. > >For more accurate results, an analog voltmeter connected to the >ECM side of the injector should give reasonable data...as in 12v=0% >duty cycle, 0v=100% duty cycle. > >-greg > ------------------------------ From: Wayne Blair Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 10:01:14 +1000 Subject: 460 EFI Could any of you send me a picture/image (or link to) of any factory (or after market) EFI Intakes for 460/429 engines. thanks <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< bye >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wayne [Brisbane Australia] ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 18:11:05 -0600 Subject: Re: IAC controller circuit ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming Clarence Wood wrote: > > Wonderful! But, how do I access the 'incoming' site? > > At 04:03 PM 1/4/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > > > >OK, finally got it together. I finished the schematics and > >the write-up on the stepper motor control circuit. It's all > >been uploaded to the 'incoming' site. > > > >Files: > > > >Stepdrv.txt The what/how/why and where. > >StepDrv1.gif Image, page 1 of schematics > >StepDrv2.gif Image, page 2 of schematics > > > > > >Now, before anybody jumps up and down about the hand > >drawn schematics, well, I'm a software guy. I almost > >had to use a crayon ;) {the sharpest nearby items are > >the corners on my keyboard}. > > > >The purpose of this circuit/project is to be able to > >control the IAC by itself. That is, you can extend or > >retract the pintle at will. This is a stand-alone > >controller. > > > >Have fun, any questions, I'll be here for awhile. (At > >least 'til next vacation/holiday). > > > > > >BobR. > > > >Who put silly-putty on the point of his cone shaped > >hat 'lest I cut myself. > > > > > >-- > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: "Khoo Teck-Khoon" Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:52:51 PST Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor >Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:51:37 -0600 (CST) >From: "Gregory A. Parmer" >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor > > >For a relative sort of deal, see >http://sura1.jlab.org/~bowling/fieye.html >It is a *very* simple idea. > >For more accurate results, an analog voltmeter connected to the >ECM side of the injector should give reasonable data...as in 12v=0% >duty cycle, 0v=100% duty cycle. > >-greg > I've seen the diagram and still confused somewhat. Anyway, is it possible to wire a LED to the ECU side of the injector wire and just look at the amount of time the LED is lighted. Perhaps, a continuous on would indicate 100% injector duty or is it the other way? Would this load the circuit to the injectors as I only know the pin for injector no. 1 on the ECU? Regards ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:05:03 -0700 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread Hi again-- One more thing about insulating headers-- Already said the headers need to be made out of 321 SS if you are gonna insulate them and want them to live for any length of time. Another aspect of this is that once you have insulated the header tubes, obviously, they will get hotter, and therefore experience a bunch more heat expansion than uninsulated header tubes do. And stainless has a somewhat higher coefficient of expansion than plain carbon steel, so you will be fighting a double whammy with insulated 321 SS headers in terms of tube growth from cold engine to fully hot, sustained WOT header tube operating conditions. Specifically, you had better allow for about .080" of growth in length per foot of tube length. If you do not allow for it, this is MORE than enough growth to cause things to disassemble themselves!!! (NASTY ways of doing it, too, like breaking bolts off at the head, breaking flanges off of the head, breaking turbine housings, breaking turbo mounting brackets, etc.!! The 321 SS is tough, stiff, and strong enough at high temps, even in only 16 or 18 gauge thickness, to vent its wrath at captivity on almost anything else foolish enough to be in its way!! Also, cuz of the differential in thermal expansion between stainless and plain steel and/or iron, the older boys have told me that the best plan is to fab the header flanges out of carbon steel (min. 3/8" thick, I would be inclined more toward 7/16" or 1/2"). They have also told me that the wire of choice for welding the 321 SS tubing to the carbon flanges is 308 SS. (347 wire for welding 321 tube to 321 tube.) These same older boys did not mention what to use for header flanges meant to mate with them thar new-fangled aluminium heads---- Now, as for the expansion joints that you are almost bound to need to make the fool things work without breakin' sumthin': Any creative thoughts on this subject are more than welcome! Best idea I have come up with, so far, is to use a regular tube into the second tube swedged larger slip joint, just like on stock exhaust pipe joints--but no clamp, and be sure that the inner tube sticking into the swedged part of the other tube is NOT QUITE bottomed (1/8" clear end play??) in the final assembly position. Then weld a rolled bellows looking device on over the outside of the slip joint to seal it. Such bellows are available (IN 321 SS!!) in an innumerable variety of appropriate sizes and thicknesses (and with plain tube ends) from, for one, an outfit by the name of Hyspan. This is all obviously a LOT of effort to get more out of a motor, but hey--why do we spend our time here if not for just that reason??? Regards, Greg ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #8 *************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".