DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 6 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 011 In this issue: Injector Duty Monitor RE: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #10 Re: GM PCM Auto Trans control Re: oops... (was Re: Nology) Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 Re: Water Injection Thread Re: Water Injection Thread Re: Water Injection Thread /turbo turbin Re: Wide Band Lambda Sensor, where can I locate? Re: Injector Duty Monitor Re: Water Injection Thread Re: Injector Duty Monitor Re: Injector Duty Monitor Re: Nology) Re: Injector Duty Monitor Re: Water Injection Thread Pinout Bosch HotWire AMM... Re: Water Injection Thread Re: Water Injection Thread /turbo turbin The Guts of LH-Jetronic... Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 Re: Water Injection Thread Re: Water Injection Thread Re: Injector Duty Monitor Re: Water Injection Thread Re: Water Injection Thread Re: Injector Duty Monitor RE: Wide Band Lambda Sensor, where can I locate? See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christian Hack Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:06:23 +1000 Subject: Injector Duty Monitor > Subject: Injector Duty Monitor > > On this subject, what is it that we really want to > measure? Duty cycle or the pulse width? > > The two designs presented (B. Bowling and C Hack), > are nice. But getting access to a PIC programmer > can be a problem. JDR carries a bunch of PIC's, and > the OTP 16C56 can be had for $4.50US, not bad. A > AT89C2051 w/flash is $7.00US, plus Christian's > design reads out on an LCD screen, nice again. Just want to make the point that I can take _no_ credit for the pwmeter.zip design. The guy who did it is Georg Lerm. I'm just a mere PS to GIF converter boy (That's where you start when you're a junior at CSH HQ - hopefully I'll get a promotion soon). > > If there's enough interest, would someone with a > PIC programmer burn up a bunch for a group purchase? > I have designs for PIC programmer that can be whipped on a bread board in less than an hour and will program almost any PIC. Only requires two voltage regs, an open collector hex inverter and a coupla transistors/resistors/capacitors. Christian Hack christianh@xxx.au EDMI Pty Ltd Ph : (07) 3888 3066 FAX : (07) 3888 3583 ------------------------------ From: Christian Hack Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:10:56 +1000 Subject: RE: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #10 > > Now we could modify the code to measure the period between injector > pulses, we could calculate the duty cycle from that in terms of > on/off time and percentage. I nfact you could display all of this on > a 2 line display.That is on-time[ms], off time[ms] and duty cycle[%]. > If you have eperience with micro's, it should be easy. I program these things at work and at home so if Georg can't find the time to change his program I might be able to help out here if anyone wants. That's assuming I get some time to work on and release the new version of MapEdit (Sorry guys, I know I said early December but I have 101 things to do at the moment - perhaps in a month or so?) Christian Hack christianh@xxx.au EDMI Pty Ltd Ph : (07) 3888 3066 FAX : (07) 3888 3583 ------------------------------ From: "David A. Cooley" Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 20:12:34 -0500 Subject: Re: GM PCM Auto Trans control At 03:41 PM 1/5/99 +1100, you wrote: >Has anybody been playing around with the P6? PCM's that also control trans >shifts, not just TCC lockup, but 1-2, 2-3 etc shifts?. >If so, is the calibrations for shift firmness & shift points like a standard >table?. >It seems most cars have a Econ/Pwr setting for trans control, although, >maybe I shouldn't find this out cause I'd have axle snapping / front wheel >launch setting instead ;-) > >Ross Myers > Ross, I've been playing around a bit... I have a 95 Buick LeSabre with the 3800 Series I V6. I uploaded a picture of the internals of my PCM to the Incoming site, file name is: GM-P6-PCM.jpg Also, the ROM is 95-lesabre.bmyu1714.bin from the /pub/diy_efi/bins directory. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: "Tom Parker" Date: 06 Jan 99 01:23:21 +1200 Subject: Re: oops... (was Re: Nology) Mos wrote: >What about painting the reflective stuff with opaque paint? Still the same >colour, just much less reflective. In NZ if they catch you covering your plate in any way, you are in big trouble. If a copper was following you, he might notice that your plate doesn't refelect like it should. At night, even dirty Plates light up from 100's of metres away. My personal system would look a bit odd on most cars. I drive a mini which has a number plate hanging under the front bumper, with the bottom edge about 4 inches above the ground. Mine is rather loosely attached and is bent in such a way that it hangs straight when you are stationary, but flies up under the bumper enough to dissapear when you are moving. The only problem is if you see the camera and hit the brakes, then it probably reappears. Doesn't work on the rear plate though. - -- Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 21:43:20 -0500 Subject: Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 >I think he's already up to using a 383 ("B" big block). These and the "RB"s >(raised deck) went away I think in '76 or so, before EFI. A 383 (or better >yet a 413/426/440 RB) is so far superior to a 318/340/360 as to be almost >funny. Have not heard a lot of noise one way or the other yet, but I have Yes, I happen to be in your camp on this - no replacement for displacement, and I'm working out the measurements on using a 440 RB crank inside a 383 B block. Obviously, the block/mains -or- the crank will have to be machined down to fit, since the diameter of the 440 crank is so much thicker on the journals. I've received private suggestions both ways, and I dropped the 440 crank at the machine shop this morning to get their educated guess on the issue. Everyone say.... "stroker". >not heard of many V-10's in things like boats yet. Nor have I seen any >Moparts aftermarket advertising for V-10's. The fact that the same folks The V10 is a good engine, I've driven both flavors - truck and viper - its a great, responsive powerplant that's not as noisy as I expected. Modern technology. But the damn things are so expensive. Crate version from Mopar is in the 5k+ range if my memory serves me correct. Don't quote me. >are resurrecting the elephant (426 Hemi) prolly speaks pretty powerfully to >which block is the better one!! I would almost bet that you could acquire a >new Hemi for the same money as a low mileage Viper motor!! May well be >close to the same story for a low mileage V-10 truck motor!! Mopar recently re-introduced a redesigned hemi engine, with little crossover from the original molds. My understanding was the tooling for the original hemi series was dumped (as was the poli series) after the manufacturing was done, and Mopar engineers recently (last few years) reverse engineered their own product, and re-invented the wheel, supposively better. >And I know EXACTLY how I would choose to spend the loot if it were me doing >it!!! 383 with a turbo and some EFI crap :) >decks. Yes, manifold spacers are commonly available. But I have never seen >any "unspacers"!! Maybe someone who specializes in rescuing and Um, milling machine :) I'm going to fabricate the manifold anyway, if I can find the blueprints for the OEM manifold/block/heads, much the way the "Buick Power Source" does for the Buick V6 engines (231/252 RWD series). With this information, I can draw it into AutoCad and have three plates made - left head, right head, and valley cover, bolt them down, weld them together (braze actually), and fabricate intake runners to a large box. Worked for the Buick V6, should work with the Mopar 383. This is one of the things I do like about EFI (other than the obvious ones) - with a dry manifold your manifold design can be off or lazy, and the thing will still work quite well. When we did the radical Buick V6, we completely fabricated the manifold without any mathematics at all. The only thing we did calculate was a 1.5 ratio of intake plenum versus the displacement of the engine. yes, I'm somewhat of a corky bell fan :) Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 Homebrew Automotive Website: http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HMMWV 1973 Lincoln Continental (460cid) 1975 Dodge D200 3/4 ton Club Cab 2000 Buick-Powered Mid-Engined Sports Car - - ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 21:36:08 -0500 Subject: Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 >The problem with Chrysler EFI is the computers are potted and sealed... No >chip to replace... Makes it kind of hot-rodder or custom unfriendly. Very true. And the stuff in the 80's I've never seen an aftermarket module that intercepts signals and modifys them the same way they have to mid 90's RAM trucks. THough the older stuff is neat - a computer in an air cleaner is a neat idea :) >Not sure if the 383 was ever injected though... (or what, if any, EFI parts >would swap from a 360 or 318) Not that I can tell, and we all know the big block disappeared. Its 318 or 360, and that's it. If you get a non-magnum engine, the 318 and 360 intakes of the same eras are pretty much compatible, but the magnum parts are drilled or milled slightly differently, just enough not to fit. I'm very close to deciding that the final solution will be this: Mopar 383 engine, .030 over Custom dry intake with integral oil cooler welded into the intake log (for water cooling) One large undetermined turbo GM Camaro/Firebird/Corvette ECM from the early 90's rest of the GM sensors, wires, and assorted accessories. I intend to build to 400 HP and 450 ft/lbs of torque if I can get it reliably. I tend to blow motors apart with all the experiments these days :) Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 Homebrew Automotive Website: http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HMMWV 1973 Lincoln Continental (460cid) 1975 Dodge D200 3/4 ton Club Cab 2000 Buick-Powered Mid-Engined Sports Car - - ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 21:29:26 -0500 Subject: Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 >Mucho better than trying to use grease to put in the counter >shaft bearings. The darn things always fall out Good advice, thank you. >Oh yes Mopar Perf has a special pilot bushing just for auto. >No machining needed. So Peter, let me get this straight - my understanding is that I can use an auto crank with the manual transmission by using a special mopar part? Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 Homebrew Automotive Website: http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HMMWV 1973 Lincoln Continental (460cid) 1975 Dodge D200 3/4 ton Club Cab 2000 Buick-Powered Mid-Engined Sports Car - - ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 21:31:49 -0500 Subject: Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 >older engige or swap entire engine? I dont know Dodge maybe you do have to >reinvent the wheel. If you have room to the front of the engine you can Yes, they did. This is an option for the 318, however I'm moving to a 383, and want to inject the thing in a multi-port fashion for a variety of reasons. I have already collected most of the GM parts necessary to do this, and the crank sensor will be the most intricate. Everything else is either a tapped hole or a wire :) >swap in a Viper engine?(yes I know VERY $$ and hard to find at least in >Ontario Canada) They are fairly expensive in the US as well, and not that common. If I were to consider that route, I'd dump the cash and go with the cummins deisel, just because the cost should be less, and certainly deisel can be used for towing :) Diesel I don't know, gas I do, so I think I'll stick with the 383 since I have it, and most of the EFI parts. Should be a fun fabrication thing :) Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 Homebrew Automotive Website: http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HMMWV 1973 Lincoln Continental (460cid) 1975 Dodge D200 3/4 ton Club Cab 2000 Buick-Powered Mid-Engined Sports Car - - ------------------------------ From: Tom Sharpe Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 21:15:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread Clarence Wood wrote: > Does anybody know where a feller could get a banjo-type fitting? > make it IMHO --- looks like the brake line to caliper connection or the donut with a pipe used on top of the carb on old Paxton setups to connect the blower to the carb. Basically the turbine outlet faces a flat (or convex) surface with the flow going in all directions to be collected again and routed away 90 deg. from the inlet. (I Think) Regards Tom ------------------------------ From: cosmic.ray@xxx.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:07:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread On Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:45:05 -0700 bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) writes: > >> >>Yes, it helps the designer achieve 50/50 weight distribution, but there >>are other ways of doing it. The Corvette engineers did it by putting the >>engine in the front and the transmission in the back. >> >Hey--all the Corvette guys did was copy. Alfa's "Alfetta" FI cars of the >late '40's did that before there even WAS a Corvette--Not to mention the >early Pontiac Tempests, with their "rubber band" driveshafts!! OK, Greg... I bow to your superior knowledge of vintage cars :) The oldest thing I ever drove (besides some military vehicles) was my Dad's '67 Ambassador Wagon. I remember seeing something interesting at my favorite mechanic's shop. It was an automatic transmission and differential in one unit bolted between the rear wheels (independent rear suspension). I believe that the torque converter was attached to the engine. It was an American car from the '50s or '60s ('60s, I think). Do you have any idea what it is? I also remember seeing an old Lincoln that had a double-cardon on both ends of the driveshaft. I had heard that having a double-cardon at both ends will allow the driveshaft to drop out of alignment, but the joints on the Lincoln were retained by some pieces of spring steel. Ray ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:29:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread /turbo turbin >> > >Thanks, Greg, for the good discussion. I never thought about the Mach >1 >> >stuff in the exhaust housing. At Mach 1, though, flow through a nozzle >is >> >only >> .At what point do we want the pulses to help us?At the point just before the boost starts? >Long not isolated headers will lose a lot of the precius energy we have >when >we need it as most, when boost is starting , Not if they are coated, inside and out and insulated--then the energy has nowhere to go!! Or maybe inject some water into the exhaust manifold when the throttle ix opened, but the turbo has not yet spooled up. This would increase the volume of the gasses greatly, even though dropping the temp. Prolly would act like a temporarily smaller nozzle for spool up! >the turbine?), then is better to have one of the smallest >exhaust housings on a big turbine wheel, I think this gives you not the >best peek efficiency but a wider aria. I will have to ponder on this one, may well be you are right. >I have seen two stroke engines with tuned expansion cambers and turboes no >the end, tremendus output! Drag snowsleds with efi and tuned expansion >cambers and turbo.....WOW This is awfully close to what I am talking about with a "pressure recovery accumulator"!! You givd me hope that one would work as I expect on a four stroke!!! Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:29:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Wide Band Lambda Sensor, where can I locate? >This is my first post to this list. I am on digest mode. Nice to join this >group of knowledgeable folks! I am an electrical engineer by profession, but >I am working on an automotive project (in my spare time,haha ) and need a >wide range Lambda sensor for it. The Bosche web site describes a Planer >wide-band Lambda sensor, but all of my calls to their corporation have >proved useless with regards to obtaining a P/N for a sensor that will work >on my vehicle (the electrical connector is not important, I can solder). Any >suggestions as to which vehicles use Lambda sensors with a wide range? I >would like it to extend at least to a 12.6:1 Air/Fuel ratio. I know these >beasts exist. > > Thanks for any assistance you can provide! > >Ezra Hall >ehall@xxx.net Honda VTEC's use an NGK which is way superior to the Bosch unit. Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:32:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor >> Subject: Injector Duty Monitor >> >> On this subject, what is it that we really want to >> measure? Duty cycle or the pulse width? >> Duty cycle relates to horsepower, pulsewidth to torque--which do you wanna know?? Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: "David A. Cooley" Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 22:40:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread At 10:07 PM 1/5/99 -0500, you wrote: > >I remember seeing something interesting at my favorite mechanic's shop. >It was an automatic transmission and differential in one unit bolted >between the rear wheels (independent rear suspension). I believe that >the torque converter was attached to the engine. It was an American car >from the '50s or '60s ('60s, I think). Do you have any idea what it is? That was an Oldsmobile... Not sure the year and model, but the "driveshaft" was a spring-steel shaft for flexibility and went from the Flywheel of the engine to the transaxle/torque-converter assy in the rear. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: "David A. Cooley" Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 22:44:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor At 08:32 PM 1/5/99 -0700, you wrote: >>> Subject: Injector Duty Monitor >>> >>> On this subject, what is it that we really want to >>> measure? Duty cycle or the pulse width? >>> >Duty cycle relates to horsepower, pulsewidth to torque--which do you wanna >know?? Huh? Duty cycle is the ratio of on to off time of the injector... this you need to know so you don't have to run your injectors static at WOT and Max RPM... Pulsewidth will tell you how long the injector is open so you know how much fuel is being injected... =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:04:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor - -----Original Message----- From: Greg Hermann To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 10:49 PM Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor Nope, think ya need another cup of coffee, the PW is just more accurate. One less computation/average. If your doing a point by point comparasion the pw is more accurate, IMHO Bruce >>> Subject: Injector Duty Monitor >>> >>> On this subject, what is it that we really want to >>> measure? Duty cycle or the pulse width? >>> >Duty cycle relates to horsepower, pulsewidth to torque--which do you wanna >know?? > >Regards, Greg > > ------------------------------ From: cosmic.ray@xxx.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:03:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Nology) On 06 Jan 99 01:23:21 +1200 "Tom Parker" writes: >Mos wrote: > >>What about painting the reflective stuff with opaque paint? Still the same >>colour, just much less reflective. > >In NZ if they catch you covering your plate in any way, you are in big >trouble. If a copper was following you, he might notice that your plate >doesn't refelect like it should. At night, even dirty Plates light up from >100's of metres away. > >My personal system would look a bit odd on most cars. I drive a mini which has >a number plate hanging under the front bumper, with the bottom edge about 4 >inches above the ground. Mine is rather loosely attached and is bent in such a >way that it hangs straight when you are stationary, but flies up under the >bumper enough to dissapear when you are moving. > >The only problem is if you see the camera and hit the brakes, then it probably >reappears. > >Doesn't work on the rear plate though. > >-- >Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz > - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ > In Michigan, we don't have front plates :) If they decide to put them back on (the state did away with them when I was a kid), I'll know what they're up to. Ray Drouillard ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: Tom Sharpe Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 22:34:05 -0600 Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor Christian Hack wrote: > > Subject: Injector Duty Monitor > > > > On this subject, what is it that we really want to > > measure? Duty cycle or the pulse width? V8 @xxx.030 (30ms) per intake event (approx) Duty cycle = (pulse width/cycle)/(time/cycle) We can easily calculate DC from PW and RPM. (assuming 1 pulse per 4 cycles) DC = PW/(120/rpm) or PW*RPM/120 V8 @xxx.29ms) sec / intake event How big of an injector can do that???? ( I need 120 pounders!) I think we need PW...... Regards Tom ------------------------------ From: Tom Sharpe Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 22:36:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread David A. Cooley wrote: > At 10:07 PM 1/5/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > > >I remember seeing something interesting at my favorite mechanic's shop. > >It was an automatic transmission and differential in one unit bolted > >between the rear wheels (independent rear suspension). I believe that > >the torque converter was attached to the engine. It was an American car > >from the '50s or '60s ('60s, I think). Do you have any idea what it is? > > That was an Oldsmobile... Not sure the year and model, but the "driveshaft" > was a spring-steel shaft for flexibility and went from the Flywheel of the > engine to the transaxle/torque-converter assy in the rear. > Pontiac Tempest. (I don't know if Olds had a variant). Tom ------------------------------ From: "Daniel R. Henriksson" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 05:37:35 +0100 (MET) Subject: Pinout Bosch HotWire AMM... I need the pinout and signal specifications on the Bosch HotWire AirMassMeters, it's the old style 0280 212 005 (-85 Saab) or 0280 212 011 (-92 Saab), any similar device would do... These are my guesses so far: Pin Function 1: AMM-something??? 2: +14Volts 3: Burnoff?????? 4: Ground 5: AMM-something??? 6: AirTemp????? I'm in the process of building a AFM-to-AMM adaptor computer. Any advice would be appreachiated! /Daniel Henriksson rotax@xxx.se ------------------------------ From: "David A. Cooley" Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 23:44:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread At 10:36 PM 1/5/99 -0600, you wrote: >> That was an Oldsmobile... Not sure the year and model, but the "driveshaft" >> was a spring-steel shaft for flexibility and went from the Flywheel of the >> engine to the transaxle/torque-converter assy in the rear. >> > >Pontiac Tempest. (I don't know if Olds had a variant). Tom > I stand corrected! I called my brother and he told me about 5 minutes ago the same thing... (It was his car!) =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: Tom Sharpe Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 22:55:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread /turbo turbin Greg Hermann wrote: > At the point just before > the boost starts? > >Long not isolated headers will lose a lot of the precius energy we have > >when > >we need it as most, when boost is starting , > > Not if they are coated, inside and out and insulated--then the energy has > nowhere to go!! > > Or maybe inject some water into the exhaust manifold when the throttle ix > opened, but the turbo has not yet spooled up. This would increase the > volume of the gasses greatly, even though dropping the temp. Prolly would > act like a temporarily smaller nozzle for spool up! > > >the turbine?), then is better to have one of the smallest > >exhaust housings on a big turbine wheel, I think this gives you not the > >best peek efficiency but a wider aria. > > I will have to ponder on this one, may well be you are right. ( wide is good) > > >I have seen two stroke engines with tuned expansion cambers and turboes no > >the end, tremendus output! Drag snowsleds with efi and tuned expansion > >cambers and turbo.....WOW --- RPM constant - variable transmission ---------------------- Tom > This is awfully close to what I am talking about with a "pressure recovery > accumulator"!! You givd me hope that one would work as I expect on a four > stroke!!! > > Regards, Greg You have to consider if you need spool up help or max efficiency under boost. In my limited experience with a T04B on a 350 Chevy, the only time spool up was a problem was full throttle acceleration from a standing start. That could have been fixed by a loose converter, a transmission brake or just better brakes. The GN boys have found a cure. Above 2000 rpm steady state conditions, the boost gauge was hooked straight to the throttle. No noticable lag at all under any conditions... smooth response and boost. Throttle response was not as instantenous as the EFI on my NA motor, henseforth, it would not go sideways if you wacked the throttle comming out of a corner, just smooth power. maybe easier to drive??? IMHO the large volume in the accumulator will have a very detrimental effect on spool up. It may have an effect on max HP (efficiency) but we only run there at WOT and high rpm like real racers.. down the back straight at Elkart Lake... but most of the passing is done out of the corners.. except Nascar where all are equal. I don't think you can have your cake with ice cream. just another .02 Tom ------------------------------ From: "Daniel R. Henriksson" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 05:57:30 +0100 (MET) Subject: The Guts of LH-Jetronic... I'm in the process of reverse-engineering the Bosch LH-Jetronic ECU (0280 000 534) and are wondering if there is anyone out there who has done it before or has information to share or maybe wants to help?? The actual ECU can be found on Saab 9000 turbos, the same family of ECUs has also been used on Volvos 700 and 240. I have a partly commented dissasembly and have done some schematics research. Best Regards Daniel Henriksson rotax@xxx.se ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:41:57 -0700 Subject: Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 > >I'm going to fabricate the manifold anyway, if I can find the blueprints >for the OEM manifold/block/heads, much the way the "Buick Power Source" >does for the Buick V6 engines (231/252 RWD series). With this information, >I can draw it into AutoCad and have three plates made - left head, right >head, and valley cover, bolt them down, weld them together (braze >actually), and fabricate intake runners to a large box. Isn't the valley cover part of the gasket, not part of the manifold on a B??? Been a while-- :-) > Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:44:15 -0700 Subject: Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 >>Mucho better than trying to use grease to put in the counter >>shaft bearings. The darn things always fall out > >Good advice, thank you. > a hard maple dowel close to the right size works pretty well, too--plus you do not need an oxy-acetylene hacksaw to cut an old one to the shorter length!! Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:49:03 -0700 Subject: Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 >They are fairly expensive in the US as well, and not that common. If I >were to consider that route, I'd dump the cash and go with the cummins >deisel, just because the cost should be less, and certainly deisel can be >used for towing :) > >Diesel I don't know, gas I do, so I think I'll stick with the 383 since I >have it, and most of the EFI parts. Should be a fun fabrication thing :) > > Ahhh--but if you are gonna do that, find a 6CT (from a piece of heavy equipment, or sumthin') instead of a 6BT like they use in the trucks--505 inches instedda 360--- hee hee--nuthin beats inches!! The C Cummins is only two or three inches longer then the B!! Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:51:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread >Clarence Wood wrote: > >> Does anybody know where a feller could get a banjo-type fitting? >> > >make it IMHO --- looks like the brake line to caliper connection or the >donut with a pipe used on >top of the carb on old Paxton setups to connect the blower to the carb. >Basically the turbine outlet faces a flat (or convex) surface with the >flow going in all directions to be collected again and routed away 90 deg. >from the inlet. (I Think) I think you are right Tom, but my thought is to make it with a tangential pipe connection, rather than a radial one like the brake fittings or the one in McInnes' picture! Again, 321 SS would be the material of choice. Regards, Greg > >Regards Tom ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 00:54:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread Ah yes. As popularized in "My cousin Vinny", I believe it was a 65 or 66. Shannen diy_efi@xxx.edu wrote: > > At 10:36 PM 1/5/99 -0600, you wrote: > > >> That was an Oldsmobile... Not sure the year and model, but the "driveshaft" > >> was a spring-steel shaft for flexibility and went from the Flywheel of the > >> engine to the transaxle/torque-converter assy in the rear. > >> > > > >Pontiac Tempest. (I don't know if Olds had a variant). Tom > > > > I stand corrected! > I called my brother and he told me about 5 minutes ago the same thing... > (It was his car!) > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. > =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: "Georg Lerm" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:00:49 GMT-2 Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor If you chaps want pre-programmed micros I wouls be able to do them for you. I would have to do some investigation as to how much the devices would cost and of course the dreaded shipping costs. Most of the run of the mill device programmers will burn these micros. Nothing special needed. I use an expro 80 programmer which i bought back in '92 and that can program them. All the components are standard. The LCD I used is I had in my junk box. Most standard type LCD's will work. Should be a 16 character 2 line display capable of working in a 4-bit mode. if you were use a display other than what I have listed, please remember to check the pinouts of the display. All the signal names should be the same. Might be a good idea to get a spec sheet. I see that this particular display uses backlighting. My display did not have that future. One would have to make provision for that 'cause there different types available. The LED type seems great, but sucks a lot of juice. A 9v 6LR6 type battery as known as a PP3 will last long. I would suggest buying display without backlighting and a reflective type.THis type enables you to view the characters without backlighting. Usesless in bad light tough[almost dark]. I suppose bacllighting would be an anwer. There is a pdf at the site Steve mentioned. have a look at that. http://www.eio.com/cgi-bin/byteserver.pl/m1632.pdf I would suggest using the L1682. It is reflective. Same working as the M1632. No backlighting circiut required. http://www.eio.com/cgi-bin/byteserver.pl/l1682.pdf later.... Georg Georg Lerm Chief Technician Clinical Engineering Red Cross Hospital Cape Town South Africa Tel. +27 21 658-5120 Fax. +27 21 658-5120 ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:02:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread >On Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:45:05 -0700 bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) writes: >> >>> >>>Yes, it helps the designer achieve 50/50 weight distribution, but there >>>are other ways of doing it. The Corvette engineers did it by putting >the >>>engine in the front and the transmission in the back. >>> >>Hey--all the Corvette guys did was copy. Alfa's "Alfetta" FI cars of the >>late '40's did that before there even WAS a Corvette--Not to mention the >>early Pontiac Tempests, with their "rubber band" driveshafts!! > >OK, Greg... I bow to your superior knowledge of vintage cars :) The >oldest thing I ever drove (besides some military vehicles) was my Dad's >'67 Ambassador Wagon. Hey, Ray-- My dad couldda whupped your dad :-)--he had a VERY late '64 GTO tri-power/four speed/posi/two door SEDAN (post)--late summer '64, and late enough that it got, from the factory, the '65, higher rise heads and manifold, 360 HP 389 anna Muncie instedda a B/W T-10!! Boy, am I sorry that one ever got away!! That was one QUICK mutha--the 64's were about 350 pounds lighter than the '65's, and the '65 tri-power engine was a WHOLE lot more than 12 HP stronger than the '64's, which was what the factory claimed!! > >I remember seeing something interesting at my favorite mechanic's shop. >It was an automatic transmission and differential in one unit bolted >between the rear wheels (independent rear suspension). I believe that >the torque converter was attached to the engine. It was an American car >from the '50s or '60s ('60s, I think). Do you have any idea what it is? '61--'62--maybe '63 Tempest automatic transaxle. > >I also remember seeing an old Lincoln that had a double-cardon on both >ends of the driveshaft. I had heard that having a double-cardon at both >ends will allow the driveshaft to drop out of alignment, but the joints >on the Lincoln were retained by some pieces of spring steel. Caddy used to use CV drive-shaft joints like that too--quieter and smoother, cuzza no accel/decel of the driveshaft as it rotates. There is a little sphere and socket in the center that keeps 'em aligned. Mid '70's Chevy full-time 4x4 trucks used a similar joint at the transfer case end of their front drive shaft, too. Regards, Greg > >Ray > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:04:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread >At 10:07 PM 1/5/99 -0500, you wrote: > >> >>I remember seeing something interesting at my favorite mechanic's shop. >>It was an automatic transmission and differential in one unit bolted >>between the rear wheels (independent rear suspension). I believe that >>the torque converter was attached to the engine. It was an American car >>from the '50s or '60s ('60s, I think). Do you have any idea what it is? > >That was an Oldsmobile... Not sure the year and model, but the "driveshaft" >was a spring-steel shaft for flexibility and went from the Flywheel of the >engine to the transaxle/torque-converter assy in the rear. I dint know the early Cutlass was that much of a Tempest clone!! Greg > >=========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. >=========================================================== ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:09:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor >-----Original Message----- >From: Greg Hermann >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 10:49 PM >Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor > >Nope, think ya need another cup of coffee, the PW is just more accurate. >One less computation/average. If your doing a point by point comparasion >the pw is more accurate, IMHO >Bruce > > >>>> Subject: Injector Duty Monitor >>>> >>>> On this subject, what is it that we really want to >>>> measure? Duty cycle or the pulse width? >>>> >>Duty cycle relates to horsepower, pulsewidth to torque--which do you wanna >>know?? >> >>Regards, Greg >> >>What for more coffe--to pour on Doc?? Duty cycle=fuel per unit time, which relates to work per unit time, which is what horsepower is. Pulse Width = fuel per revolution, which relates to work per revolution, which comes down to torque. Where am I wrong here?? Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: "Claus Christensen" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:15:35 +0100 Subject: RE: Wide Band Lambda Sensor, where can I locate? Ezra, as far as I know it is not possible to just change the Lambda sensor because your standard ECU or some attachement of it includes special electronics to amplify the tiny signal the sensor provides that is special to the type of sensor used. So when you change the sensor you ecu would probably confuse lambda readings and consequently would not be working. Things are different if you use some programmable ECU like our EFI332 project. Then you can talk to the folks you got it from about which sensor to choose. If you just want to view the lambda readings there are some (quite expensive) devices on the market that come with an additional wide-band sensor to mount in the exaust. They will show you the current lambda on a LCD screen. All the best, Claus ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #11 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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