DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 6 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 014 In this issue: Re: MAF and VE Re: Turbo header design Re: Wide Band Lambda Sensor, where can I locate?Walter? Re: Wide Band Lambda Sensor, where can I locate? P6 Pinouts Re: Turbo header design Re: difference between 16136965 and 1227747 Re: Turbo header design Re: Turbo header design Re: Water Injection Thread RE: Injector Duty Monitor Re: Injector Duty Monitor RE: Injector Duty Monitor 180 degree headers WAS:Re: Turbo header design Re: Turbo header design RE: Water Injection Thread Re: Delco 639 Re: Turbo header design Re: Injector Duty Monitor RE: oops... (was Re: Nology) Re: Wide Band Lambda Sensor, where can I locate? Re: Water Injection Thread Re: Wide Band O2 See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:08:34 -0500 Subject: Re: MAF and VE - -----Original Message----- From: David-HMSE Higham To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 11:29 AM Subject: MAF and VE In the archives are pages upon pages of MAP/MAF stuff. All the up and down sides, are pretty well covered. Doinn a search under MAP MAF VE Gram/sec tables, will give ya lots of data Bruce > I'm looking into using a MAF as opposed to a MAP sensor. Could someone > confirm my thoughts that the value of air flow obtained from the > sensor, when compensated by MAT and BP can be used directly to > calculate injected fuel mass. (No need to worry about VE?) Am I > missing something? > > Thanks, > > Dave > ------------------------------ From: Ken Kelly Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 17:01:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Turbo header design I haven't been involved in this thread, but let me point out that scavenging is associated with the Dynamics of the pressure, not the static average value. If you ignor the static pressure rise do to the turbo blockage you will still find the dynamics of the individual exhaust pulses. These pulses can still be timed to cause scavenging. The negative pressure that follows the pulse will be negative relative to the pulse, but not in an absolute sense. Ken EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com wrote: > > I am interested in this thread as I would like to understand better the > dynamics of a turbocharged engine. It was always my understanding that the > reason for a header over a manifold (in a turbo application)was to equalize > the pressures at the ports,,,not for any kind of scavenging effect because > there is pressure in the exhaust before the turbo usually equalling the intake > pressure(I'm not concerned with how fast the turbo spools up at this point of > the thread,,,, only with what is happening at full boost) I guess my question > is how could there possibly be scavenging if the exhaust has 15lbs of > backpressure(for a number)???????Greg???Anyone??? > -Carl Summers > > In a message dated 1/6/99 12:14:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, > clarencewood@xxx.net writes: > > << Subj: Turbo header design > Date: 1/6/99 12:14:51 PM Pacific Standard Time > From: clarencewood@xxx.net (Clarence Wood) > Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > CC: bearbvd@xxx.com (Aaron Willis) > > Several years ago I read an article on the design of a collector for V8's > that produced a bolt-on 20 hp increase. I thought the idea was very slick: > pair the tubes to their 180 out partner, baffle their exit into the collector. > In other words: as tube #1 was pushing out exhaust the cylinder that tube #2 > was servicing was on the power stroke; as tube #2 started to extract it was > helped by the vacuum created by the extraction of tube #1 which had just > finished. > My question is: why can't this be applied to the header of a turbo'd > engine: pre-turbo. I know that the turbine is already turning and therefor > creating a vacuum; but, at velocities reaching .75 mach, wouldn't any tuning, > like using the 180 out exhaust arrangement help?? I don't think the header > tubes would have to be lengthened to any great extent but, the baffling would > have to be in place. Also, wouldn't the pairing of 180 out tubes help to more > efficiently direct the vacuum created by the turbine? > > Just a thought.... > > > IZCC #3426 > 1982 280ZX Turbo GL > 1966 El Camino > 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle > 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) > 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower > Clarence Wood > Software&Such... > clarencewood@xxx.net > Savannah, TN. > > >> ------------------------------ From: EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:13:11 EST Subject: Re: Wide Band Lambda Sensor, where can I locate?Walter? Hi Walter, I keep hearing of this "magic" box and sensor but have not been able to locate it for pricing,etc....Does this use the Horiba type(6 wire) or Honda type(5 wire) sensor? Gotta URL????Was their transfer function close?????thanks - -Carl Summers In a message dated 1/6/99 1:37:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, wsherwin@xxx.com writes: << Subj: Re: Wide Band Lambda Sensor, where can I locate? Date: 1/6/99 1:37:00 PM Pacific Standard Time From: wsherwin@xxx.com (Walter Sherwin) Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu The same UEGO sensor, with controller box, can be purchased directly from NGK (USA). The only drawback is that the voltage output from the box is nonlinear with respect to Lamda. So, you have to either develope your own Lamda/V curve, or use their approximate tranform chart. Once "dialed in" the response and accuracy are excellent, over quite a wide Lambda range. >> ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:31:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Wide Band Lambda Sensor, where can I locate? - -----Original Message----- From: Walter Sherwin To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 4:49 PM Subject: Re: Wide Band Lambda Sensor, where can I locate? >The same UEGO sensor, with controller box, can be purchased directly from >NGK (USA). The only drawback is that the voltage output from the box is >nonlinear with respect to Lamda. So, you have to either develope your own >Lamda/V curve, or use their approximate tranform chart. Once "dialed in" >the response and accuracy are excellent, over quite a wide Lambda range. Do you have a part number or price?. Happen to know the range?. Bruce > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Greg Hermann >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 8:12 AM >Subject: Re: Wide Band Lambda Sensor, where can I locate? > > >>>In a message dated 1/5/99 10:36:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, >bearbvd@xxx.net >>>writes: >>> >>>> >>>> Honda VTEC's use an NGK which is way superior to the Bosch unit. >>> >>>Is this a wide range sensor, and which models/engines used it? >> >>Yes, it is wide range, and very quick response. VTEC engines. Honda part # >>is in archives within last 10 weeks or so. Controlling it is not a simple >>matter. >>Jobber cost from Honda is in $110 USD range. >> >>Regards, Greg >> >>>Thanks, >>>Mike V >> >> > ------------------------------ From: "David A. Cooley" Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 17:40:30 -0500 Subject: P6 Pinouts Sorry about that... Was trying to keep the format with Rich Text... It's now in English as well... GM_P6_pin.txt thanks, Dave =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: "Gary Derian" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:47:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Turbo header design A turbo raises both the intake and exhaust pressure. Scavenging works when the local pressure is reduced during the exhaust stroke or a pressure drop is created across the combustion chamber during overlap. Relative low pressure can be achieved even though the general pressures are above atmospheric. Its like running the engine on Jupiter. A really efficient turbo setup can have a higher intake pressure than exhaust but most street installations have higher exhaust than intake. Even an atmospheric engine has higher exhaust pressure than intake at WOT. Gary Derian >I am interested in this thread as I would like to understand better the >dynamics of a turbocharged engine. It was always my understanding that the >reason for a header over a manifold (in a turbo application)was to equalize >the pressures at the ports,,,not for any kind of scavenging effect because >there is pressure in the exhaust before the turbo usually equalling the intake >pressure(I'm not concerned with how fast the turbo spools up at this point of >the thread,,,, only with what is happening at full boost) I guess my question >is how could there possibly be scavenging if the exhaust has 15lbs of >backpressure(for a number)???????Greg???Anyone??? >-Carl Summers ------------------------------ From: "Peter Fenske" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:11:55 -0800 Subject: Re: difference between 16136965 and 1227747 Hi Steve and All A few folks have replaced the camaro tbi ecm with the 747 Cannister with a 747 is done with using ported vacum just like the pre ecm days Mat can be aprox with CTC. Close nough for a truck Some trucks do have air. Just depends on application It is not necessary to have the ecm control Air injection. The camaro ecm though has the tables extended to 5K rpm the truck uses approx above 3K or so.. Doesn't make that much of a real difference.. Gl and have fun:peter ------------------------------ From: Aaron Willis Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 15:20:29 -0800 Subject: Re: Turbo header design Clarence Wood wrote: > > Several years ago I read an article on the design of a collector for V8's that produced a bolt-on 20 hp increase. I thought the idea was very slick: pair the tubes to their 180 out partner, baffle their exit into the collector. In other words: as tube #1 was pushing out exhaust the cylinder that tube #2 was servicing was on the power stroke; as tube #2 started to extract it was helped by the vacuum created by the extraction of tube #1 which had just finished. > My question is: why can't this be applied to the header of a turbo'd engine: pre-turbo. I know that the turbine is already turning and therefor creating a vacuum; but, at velocities reaching .75 mach, wouldn't any tuning, like using the 180 out exhaust arrangement help?? I don't think the header tubes would have to be lengthened to any great extent but, the baffling would have to be in place. Also, wouldn't the pairing of 180 out tubes help to more efficiently direct the vacuum created by the turbine? > > Just a thought.... > > IZCC #3426 > 1982 280ZX Turbo GL > 1966 El Camino > 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle > 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) > 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower > Clarence Wood > Software&Such... > clarencewood@xxx.net > Savannah, TN. Clarence, This is easily done with an inline four having a 1-3-4-2 firing order, as you just pair cyl's 1-4 and 2-3 together. Commonly done in NA headers and OEM manifolds too. However, true 180 degree headers on a V8 typically take up a lot of space. The only firing order i am familiar with is for a GM engine, which is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. Picture the cyliders as two rows (which they are): 1 2 you can see that #1's 180 degree partner is #6, #8's 3 4 is #5, #4's is #7 and #3's is #2. 5 6 7 8 Obviously these are all on opposite banks, so the pipes need to travel around the engine some distance to collect in a 180 degree fashion. I really don't know much about whether the benifits would outweigh the extra bulk and length of the exhaust system, but I suspect not. HOWEVER it must be said that this arrangement does offer a killer sound in NA form! A gentleman in town has a '53 (?) Studebaker with a 406 Chevy in it, using standard NASCAR 180-degree headers collected into a single exhaust, and it will raise the hair on the back of your neck. Almost sounds like an exotic foreign supercar (or a flat-crank V8, come to think of it) HTH Aaron ICQ # 27386985 ------------------------------ From: Aaron Willis Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 15:25:11 -0800 Subject: Re: Turbo header design EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com wrote: > > I am interested in this thread as I would like to understand better the > dynamics of a turbocharged engine. It was always my understanding that the > reason for a header over a manifold (in a turbo application)was to equalize > the pressures at the ports,,,not for any kind of scavenging effect because > there is pressure in the exhaust before the turbo usually equalling the intake > pressure(I'm not concerned with how fast the turbo spools up at this point of > the thread,,,, only with what is happening at full boost) I guess my question > is how could there possibly be scavenging if the exhaust has 15lbs of > backpressure(for a number)???????Greg???Anyone??? > -Carl Summers > Keep in mind that even a NA engine always has at least atmospheric pressure on the exhaust (and on the intake as well, at WOT) which is around 15psi at sea level. Perhaps the key is in pressure differential between cylinders and exhasut systems? Just a guess... Aaron ICQ # 27386985 ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:20:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread >Gwyn Reedy wrote: >> >> I don't remember it that way. >> >> Chevy had the rear engine Corvair. >> Pontiac had the 'half of a 389 V8' 4 cyl with rear transaxle and the >> driveshaft you saw. >> Olds and Buick had the 215 aluminum V8 with conventional transmission and >> rear end technology. >> > > >Pontiac also ofered the 389 V8 in the early Tempest at some point, as >well as several versions of the slant four (4bbl carb etc). > Not sure about 6 cyl. though. > BTW I earlier wrote that swing axle cars were 61-61....should have >read 61-63. The first 389 in any midsize Poncho, other than Jim Wangers' work, was in the B body, '64, Tempest with the GTO option. Dad had one. That year, they even had the cheek to spell out the option, as in "Gran Tourismo Ommolagato" (sp?) on the price sticker. I read it. The four barrel option came on the 230 cid OHC (belt drive) in-line six banger (first in '65). Regards, Greg > >Aaron > >ICQ #27386985 ------------------------------ From: Stuart Bunning Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:23:05 +1000 (EST) Subject: RE: Injector Duty Monitor IF YOU KNOW THE RPM AND DUTY CYCLE YOU CAN CALCULATE THE mS on time. for example 3% duty cycle at idle 700RPM would be 700 RPM/60 = 11.666 REv's/second or Hz = 85.7ms and 3% of 85.7ms is 2.57 ms... At 12:07 PM 4/1/99 +0200, you wrote: >Hi >Just a correction, the dutycycle of the injectors does not realy mean >anything, >it is the open time that is normally of interest. The dutycycle however can >give >you an indication of feul-economy. > >Cheers >Carlo Putter >South Africa > Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC PTY LTD 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 EMAIL: stuart@xxx.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ ------------------------------ From: Stuart Bunning Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:14:05 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor I just purchased (yesterday) a automotive multimeter that has duty cycle for measuring injector pulse width it displayes the result in % on the LCD display. It also has RPM AMP OHM and VOLT settings. This meter I got from Dick Smith electronics in Australia was only AUS$89 I testesed it last night connecting the + lead to the injector output on the ECU and the - input to a available ground. It gives me about 3% at idle on a 3.8 litre v6 commodore about 10% at light cruise 20-30% slight accel and i have got it upto about 80% which was just before rev limit on my car in second gear so it seems to work fine. I will check it on my bench ECU to clarify accuracy but overall seems like a good buy.. At 11:06 AM 6/1/99 +1000, you wrote: >> Subject: Injector Duty Monitor >> >> On this subject, what is it that we really want to >> measure? Duty cycle or the pulse width? >> >> The two designs presented (B. Bowling and C Hack), >> are nice. But getting access to a PIC programmer >> can be a problem. JDR carries a bunch of PIC's, and >> the OTP 16C56 can be had for $4.50US, not bad. A >> AT89C2051 w/flash is $7.00US, plus Christian's >> design reads out on an LCD screen, nice again. > >Just want to make the point that I can take _no_ credit >for the pwmeter.zip design. The guy who did it is Georg Lerm. >I'm just a mere PS to GIF converter boy (That's where you >start when you're a junior at CSH HQ - hopefully I'll get >a promotion soon). > >> >> If there's enough interest, would someone with a >> PIC programmer burn up a bunch for a group purchase? >> > >I have designs for PIC programmer that can be whipped on >a bread board in less than an hour and will program almost >any PIC. Only requires two voltage regs, an open collector >hex inverter and a coupla transistors/resistors/capacitors. > > >Christian Hack >christianh@xxx.au >EDMI Pty Ltd >Ph : (07) 3888 3066 >FAX : (07) 3888 3583 > > > Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC PTY LTD 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 EMAIL: stuart@xxx.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ ------------------------------ From: "David A. Cooley" Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 19:43:17 -0500 Subject: RE: Injector Duty Monitor At 12:23 PM 1/6/99 +1000, you wrote: > >IF YOU KNOW THE RPM AND DUTY CYCLE YOU CAN CALCULATE THE mS on time. >for example 3% duty cycle at idle 700RPM would be 700 RPM/60 = 11.666 >REv's/second or Hz = 85.7ms and 3% of 85.7ms is 2.57 ms... Remember this is a 4 stroke engine... so it's 11.666/2 = 5.833 intake cycles/sec/cyl = 171.4ms, 3% of 171.4ms = 5.142ms on time Later, Dave =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: "Jon Fedock" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:12:48 -0500 Subject: 180 degree headers WAS:Re: Turbo header design >Clarence, > This is easily done with an inline four having a 1-3-4-2 firing order, >as you just pair cyl's 1-4 and 2-3 together. Commonly done in NA >headers and OEM manifolds too. However, true 180 degree headers on a V8 >typically take up a lot of space. > The only firing order i am familiar with is for a GM engine, which is >1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. Picture the cyliders as two rows (which they are): > > 1 2 you can see that #1's 180 degree partner is #6, #8's > 3 4 is #5, #4's is #7 and #3's is #2. > 5 6 > 7 8 #1 and #6 are 180 degrees apart on the distributor, not the crank. #1 and #4 are 180 degrees apart on the crank. Aren't they? What cylinders are grouped together with NASCAR 180 degree headers? Jon ------------------------------ From: Clarence Wood Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 19:11:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Turbo header design I was using MacInnes's statement (page 70): Turbocharged-engine exhaust systems are different (than NA). They duct the hot, high-pressure, high-velocity gases from the engine to the turbocharger. ...Any velocity or pressure lost in the exhaust system must be regained to the turbine housing. Wouldn't scavenging help keep pressure and velocity up? Don't be afraid to tell me I am barking up the wrong tree! For me, this is a learning exercise. But, MacInnes goes on to say: Let's say the exhaust gas comes out of the exhaust port of the engine at about 300 ft per sec. At 300 ft per sec where does the 15 lbs of port pressure come into play?? I am not being sarcastic, just trying to learn. Should I try to imagine a column of air traveling at that speed with 15 lbs of pressure? I am confused. Information on how turbochargers work is hard to get. I would really like to know where the pressure at the ports info came from as I would like to read about it as I am having trouble relating the equalization of intake pressure to the exhaust port pressure. I am not saying that you are wrong, just that I don't understand. At 04:44 PM 1/6/99 EST, you wrote: >I am interested in this thread as I would like to understand better the >dynamics of a turbocharged engine. It was always my understanding that the >reason for a header over a manifold (in a turbo application)was to equalize >the pressures at the ports,,,not for any kind of scavenging effect because >there is pressure in the exhaust before the turbo usually equalling the intake >pressure(I'm not concerned with how fast the turbo spools up at this point of >the thread,,,, only with what is happening at full boost) I guess my question >is how could there possibly be scavenging if the exhaust has 15lbs of >backpressure(for a number)???????Greg???Anyone??? >-Carl Summers > >In a message dated 1/6/99 12:14:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, >clarencewood@xxx.net writes: > > Several years ago I read an article on the design of a collector for V8's >that produced a bolt-on 20 hp increase. I thought the idea was very slick: >pair the tubes to their 180 out partner, baffle their exit into the collector. >In other words: as tube #1 was pushing out exhaust the cylinder that tube #2 >was servicing was on the power stroke; as tube #2 started to extract it was >helped by the vacuum created by the extraction of tube #1 which had just >finished. > My question is: why can't this be applied to the header of a turbo'd >engine: pre-turbo. I know that the turbine is already turning and therefor >creating a vacuum; but, at velocities reaching .75 mach, wouldn't any tuning, >like using the 180 out exhaust arrangement help?? I don't think the header >tubes would have to be lengthened to any great extent but, the baffling would >have to be in place. Also, wouldn't the pairing of 180 out tubes help to more >efficiently direct the vacuum created by the turbine? > > Just a thought.... > ------------------------------ From: "Gwyn Reedy" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:30:21 -0500 Subject: RE: Water Injection Thread Lots and lots of conflicting messages about these cars being posted. AAron - maybe I kinda remember the 326 Pontiac engine being put into the 63 tempest, but not the big V8. When the 389 was put in the 64 Tempest (contrary to GM front office policy on engine size in the 'compact' cars) the GTO was born and that was one of the first muscle cars. Gwyn > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Aaron > Willis > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 4:46 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread > > > Gwyn Reedy wrote: > > > > I don't remember it that way. > > > > Chevy had the rear engine Corvair. > > Pontiac had the 'half of a 389 V8' 4 cyl with rear transaxle and the > > driveshaft you saw. > > Olds and Buick had the 215 aluminum V8 with conventional > transmission and > > rear end technology. > > > > > Pontiac also ofered the 389 V8 in the early Tempest at some point, as > well as several versions of the slant four (4bbl carb etc). > Not sure about 6 cyl. though. > BTW I earlier wrote that swing axle cars were 61-61....should have > read 61-63. > > Aaron > > ICQ #27386985 > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:52:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Delco 639 - -----Original Message----- From: Niki Albury To: DIY_EFI Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 7:52 AM Subject: Delco 639 I can't find that number in any of my material Bruce >Hi all > >Have any of you guys come accross a DELCO 16208639??? >they have no memcal......same size as a 165/808 >They come out od the 94 Holden Barina 1.4 Auto > >Justin > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:56:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Turbo header design - -----Original Message----- From: Clarence Wood To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 8:36 PM Subject: Re: Turbo header design As far as scavenging, some Turbo cams are 0 overlap. The equal lenght, volume, temp, may be all to keep the pulses equally spaced to keep the energy applied to the turbo constant, or linear as possible. While it is spinning fast acclerations/decclerations due to a poor exhaust wouldn't help anything. Bruce > I was using MacInnes's statement (page 70): Turbocharged-engine exhaust systems are different (than NA). They duct the hot, high-pressure, high-velocity gases from the engine to the turbocharger. ...Any velocity or pressure lost in the exhaust system must be regained to the turbine housing. > Wouldn't scavenging help keep pressure and velocity up? > Don't be afraid to tell me I am barking up the wrong tree! For me, this is a learning exercise. But, MacInnes goes on to say: Let's say the exhaust gas comes out of the exhaust port of the engine at about 300 ft per sec. > At 300 ft per sec where does the 15 lbs of port pressure come into play?? I am not being sarcastic, just trying to learn. Should I try to imagine a column of air traveling at that speed with 15 lbs of pressure? I am confused. Information on how turbochargers work is hard to get. I would really like to know where the pressure at the ports info came from as I would like to read about it as I am having trouble relating the equalization of intake pressure to the exhaust port pressure. I am not saying that you are wrong, just that I don't understand. > > >At 04:44 PM 1/6/99 EST, you wrote: >>I am interested in this thread as I would like to understand better the >>dynamics of a turbocharged engine. It was always my understanding that the >>reason for a header over a manifold (in a turbo application)was to equalize >>the pressures at the ports,,,not for any kind of scavenging effect because >>there is pressure in the exhaust before the turbo usually equalling the intake >>pressure(I'm not concerned with how fast the turbo spools up at this point of >>the thread,,,, only with what is happening at full boost) I guess my question >>is how could there possibly be scavenging if the exhaust has 15lbs of >>backpressure(for a number)???????Greg???Anyone??? >>-Carl Summers >> >>In a message dated 1/6/99 12:14:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, >>clarencewood@xxx.net writes: >> >> Several years ago I read an article on the design of a collector for V8's >>that produced a bolt-on 20 hp increase. I thought the idea was very slick: >>pair the tubes to their 180 out partner, baffle their exit into the collector. >>In other words: as tube #1 was pushing out exhaust the cylinder that tube #2 >>was servicing was on the power stroke; as tube #2 started to extract it was >>helped by the vacuum created by the extraction of tube #1 which had just >>finished. >> My question is: why can't this be applied to the header of a turbo'd >>engine: pre-turbo. I know that the turbine is already turning and therefor >>creating a vacuum; but, at velocities reaching .75 mach, wouldn't any tuning, >>like using the 180 out exhaust arrangement help?? I don't think the header >>tubes would have to be lengthened to any great extent but, the baffling would >>have to be in place. Also, wouldn't the pairing of 180 out tubes help to more >>efficiently direct the vacuum created by the turbine? >> >> Just a thought.... >> > ------------------------------ From: "Walter Sherwin" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:56:47 -0800 Subject: Re: Injector Duty Monitor Ummm....................here's more fuel for the duty cycle fire. DUTY CYCLE, by definition, is the ratio of the ON time of an injector versus the ULTIMATE time that it could be turned on per period. This will vary according to the fueling "mode" that the software engineer or OEM has chosen (ie: batch SSDF, batch SSSF, alternating TBI, single TBI, sequential, phased sequential). If you are worried about dynamic injector performance (as you should be) then you have to consider the magnitude of the ON time versus the ULTIMATE time available for injection. This is why an oscilloscope is so invaluable in determining injector "headroom", and why many duty meters are somewhat meaningless, UNLESS you know the exact firing schedule of your system. Beware, a software package may flip modes based on preset operating criteria! Take Care; Walt. - -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Bunning To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 5:10 PM Subject: RE: Injector Duty Monitor > >IF YOU KNOW THE RPM AND DUTY CYCLE YOU CAN CALCULATE THE mS on time. >for example 3% duty cycle at idle 700RPM would be 700 RPM/60 = 11.666 >REv's/second or Hz = 85.7ms and 3% of 85.7ms is 2.57 ms... > > > > >At 12:07 PM 4/1/99 +0200, you wrote: >>Hi >>Just a correction, the dutycycle of the injectors does not realy mean >>anything, >>it is the open time that is normally of interest. The dutycycle however can >>give >>you an indication of feul-economy. >> >>Cheers >>Carlo Putter >>South Africa >> > > >Best Regards, > >STUART BUNNING >SALES ENGINEER >KENELEC PTY LTD > >23-25 REDLAND DRIVE >MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 >AUSTRALIA > >PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 >FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 >EMAIL: stuart@xxx.au >WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ > ------------------------------ From: Marc Piccioni Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 19:11:49 -0700 Subject: RE: oops... (was Re: Nology) We have photo radar here in Alberta, most of the time they park on the right hand side of the road. All that is needed is to bend the right edge of the plate 45 deg. this way the camera can't read the last digit. It works. /Marc - ---------- From: Tom Parker[SMTP:tparker@xxx.nz] Sent: January 5, 1999 6:23 AM To: Mos Subject: Re: oops... (was Re: Nology) Mos wrote: >What about painting the reflective stuff with opaque paint? Still the same >colour, just much less reflective. In NZ if they catch you covering your plate in any way, you are in big trouble. If a copper was following you, he might notice that your plate doesn't refelect like it should. At night, even dirty Plates light up from 100's of metres away. My personal system would look a bit odd on most cars. I drive a mini which has a number plate hanging under the front bumper, with the bottom edge about 4 inches above the ground. Mine is rather loosely attached and is bent in such a way that it hangs straight when you are stationary, but flies up under the bumper enough to dissapear when you are moving. The only problem is if you see the camera and hit the brakes, then it probably reappears. Doesn't work on the rear plate though. - -- Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A@"`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`& !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&$`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S M,BYE;F``,P`0`` M`"(```!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO M:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<``@$+, $````G````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$5&23,S M,BY%3D2D`H0@!!8 # M``X```#/!P$`!@xxx.````SP`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````& ```&UP:6-C:6]N:4!A M='1C86YA9&$N;F5T``,`!A ,F]B4`P`'$"$$```>``@0`0```&4```!714A! M5D502$]43U)!1$%22$5214E.04Q"15)402Q-3U-43T942$5424U%5$A%65!! M4DM/3E1(15))1TA42$%.1%-)1$5/1E1(15)/041!3$Q42$%425-.145$141) M4U1/0D5.``````(!"1 !````&04``!4%``!@" ``3%I&=7_?BQS_``H!#P(5 M`J@%ZP*#`% "\@D"`&-H"L!S970R-P8`!L,"@S(#Q0(`<')"<1'B?,C4U`H '"H$-L0M@;F,0,@'U!A!4 $`/P@;@G@#; A@"-1'3$>8'A;B<%0!>@ M'7 ?0PM@I1[Q9"$`:70BH$D%0")W!;!KX#O/-TXX=6)J+N$][S,;4F4Q0F!O;W J0$3 ("@7)S $($1"3A0 M!"!-R"I6Y0J%20.@3EH>`!\S(!"U)[!T4E%Y"& GH&\L!]A;2$#;AT@:3YC'\(C(59S)?0*A61OLP>0*$1F94WR M*0!I-%#+'@`%0',=$'5L(I)<(?LA`AZP91S0`Z I8 `@(!">4"82!" L8"$2 M=7!:L.<#80J%&L P)P0@'R$'@-M9, >18280J%)S0C(B$S M9P0@xxx.J >L&T@!4 :< B0!""_8E%L)PJ% M;20E,%Q =2$0]R02*6 $$&%:0'3R=NH$8/9V34%3?50?80(@UOR%B)O %0&WS'6 T4',>L/\?40.@7X%^D@&@-2H"('=[HO\F!!]0>L)3?2^G,^@O$!] ?S3_-6 *A8L9B5 A M((EP.I@O+W>,8#6Q;V,ID#5XP2X%H&TJT!TA`#T``0````4```!213H@`````%7X ` end ------------------------------ From: cosmic.ray@xxx.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:15:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Wide Band Lambda Sensor, where can I locate? On Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:31:22 -0800 "Walter Sherwin" writes: >The same UEGO sensor, with controller box, can be purchased directly from >NGK (USA). The only drawback is that the voltage output from the box is >nonlinear with respect to Lamda. So, you have to either develope your own >Lamda/V curve, or use their approximate tranform chart. Once "dialed in" >the response and accuracy are excellent, over quite a wide Lambda >range. Really? How much do they want for this device? Are you talking about one of those $1000.00 + units? Ray ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: cosmic.ray@xxx.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:41:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread >>I also remember seeing an old Lincoln that had a double-cardon on both >>ends of the driveshaft. I had heard that having a double-cardon at both >>ends will allow the driveshaft to drop out of alignment, but the joints >>on the Lincoln were retained by some pieces of spring steel. > >Caddy used to use CV drive-shaft joints like that too--quieter and >smoother, cuzza no accel/decel of the driveshaft as it rotates. There is a >little sphere and socket in the center that keeps 'em aligned. Mid '70's >Chevy full-time 4x4 trucks used a similar joint at the transfer case end of >their front drive shaft, too. Do you have any idea where I can get such a critter? My Grand Wagoneer has a double cardon on the transfer case side of the front driveshaft, but it doesn't have the ball and socket self-alignment gizmo. That is why there is a single cardon on the differential end. Double cardon joints would be just the ticket for lifting a Jeep because it would solve driveline angle vibration problems and add a few inches to the length of the driveshaft at the same time. All that would be left is to use a drop pitman arm and extend the brake lines. Ray ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: cosmic.ray@xxx.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:25:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Wide Band O2 Ezra, Just to let you know what you are up against: The wide ratio lambda sensor is a different animal. It actually contains a standard HEGO sensor that is used in a feedback loop. You need to create a circuit that reads the voltage on the HEGO sensor and uses that info to adjust the current that operates an oxygen ion pump. The resultant current is proportional to the lambda, but the curve has a different slope on either side of stoich. Just enough details to whet your appetite. If you need more help, let me know. Ray Drouillard, BSEE On Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:19:19 -0500 "Ezra Hall" writes: >Bruce, > Thank you for the response. I have already built an LED meter to monitor >Lambda sensor operation. My problem is locating a Lambda sensor itself that >will cover a wider range of Lambda. The stock sensor covers a very narrow >range, at least that is what I have read and observed. I want coverage to >Lambda=.86,A/F=12.6:1, MAX POWER. I have heard that newer Hondas use a wider >band Lambda sensor so they can run more lean, anyone know? I think these are >4-wire Lambda sensors, 2 for the heater, 2 for the sensor element.Thanks! > Ezra >ehall@xxx.net >-----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Plecan >To: ehall@xxx.net> >Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 9:15 PM >Subject: Wide Band O2 > > >>Lots of stuff in the archives for building one, but no one has done that >>yet. Project name was EGOR. If ya want a hand holler. I can't offer >>much maybe just where to look for some stuff. >> Best of Luck Bruce ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #14 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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