DIY_EFI Digest            Tuesday, 12 January 1999      Volume 04 : Number 029

In this issue:

	RE: Stepper Motors
	Re: carbide cylinder bore conversion (Bore Tech)
	More sillines  at CSH, HQ
	Non Distructive testing (letting the smoke out)
	Re: Non Distructive testing (letting the smoke out)
	Re: Fp regulator mods
	RE: Motronic Interface ?
	Re: Wide Ratio Bosch O2
	Re: Fp regulator mods
	Re: Photo Radar
	Re: carbide cylinder bore conversion (Bore Tech)
	Re: air/fuel gauge
	Aluminum V8 PICTURES
	Testing........
	Re: Fp regulator mods

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the 
DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marc Piccioni <mpiccioni@xxx.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:21:48 -0700
Subject: RE: Stepper Motors

Use a DC pancake motor if you need high torque, some of these units will put out over 1 ft/lb. and usually have 2048 step/rev.

- ----------
From: 	steve ravet[SMTP:Steve.Ravet@xxx.com]
Sent: 	January 11, 1999 10:17 AM
To: 	diy_efi@xxx.edu
Subject: 	Re: Stepper Motors

Not sure how big you need, but older hard drives and floppies (early
80's, think 8 inch floppies and full height 360K 5" floppies) had
steppers quite a bit larger than todays drives do.

If you need bigger than that, there was an article in radio electronics
a few years ago about turning an alternator into a stepper.

- --steve

Robert Harris wrote:
> 
> Any clues for sources of inexpensive 12VDC small stepper motors ( but bigger
> than those used in hard drives).  I think I may have a need if they are
> reasonable in power, speed and price.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> The Luddites were RIGHT!!
> 
> Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore


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------------------------------

From: Ken Mayer <mayerk@xxx.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:06:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: carbide cylinder bore conversion (Bore Tech)

> 
> From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann)
> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:44:07 -0700
> 
[snip]
> >You might try using your cylinder sleeve with a bit of Diamond Lapping
> >Compound. We used to use it on solid laps for very fine finishing on aluminum
> >and andodized surfaces for Hydraulic actuators. These were lapped for finish
> >and size and fitted with 0.0001-0.0002 slip fits. you might think about making
> >air cylinder operated vertical lap if you want to get it done quickly, also no
> >side load on the pistons that way.
> >Fred
> 
> Hey---nice suggestion. Thanks, Fred. I was thinking of just using a spring
> or some other sort of a flexible connection to the ring holder, but lazier
> is always better!!!
> 
> Where to find the diamond lapping compound?? Is there a variety of grit
> sizes?? If so which is best??

MSC, Travers, J&L, KBC, Enco, Grand Tool Supply, Production Tool Supply,
etc.  iirc they all carry "Clover" brand in various grits.  Contact info
is in the rec.crafts.metalworking faq.  Follow the link from
www.loganact.com   btw Enco is owned by MSC.

Ken
:-)

------------------------------

From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp@xxx.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:28:05 -0500
Subject: More sillines  at CSH, HQ

Well, we got 749 coding working in a 730, and now we been working
on trying to run 730 code ina 749, everything checks out except
I lost the TCC.  While they move things around with code, it would still
have to apprear at what would normally be an output, right?.
  I can run 749 code in a 730, and the TCC moved as noted, so 
wouldn't doing this have to work?.  Maybe a dead ecm?.
Any thoughts suggestions appreciated.
Bruce

------------------------------

From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp@xxx.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:33:36 -0500
Subject: Non Distructive testing (letting the smoke out)

Nother thing, what would be a "safe test" for how long overloading
a driver would take.  If I wanted to see if something was going to
work on injector drivers, how long in running them would it take to
see if they fail?.
  I have two items to test, running 16 injectors off of a 8 cyl TPI ecm
  Running 4 P+H injectors where 2 are normally fittted.
I would figure if the ecm gets only warm to the touch that would be one
clue.
Cheers
Bruce

------------------------------

From: Roger Heflin  <rah@xxx.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:45:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Non Distructive testing (letting the smoke out)

On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote:

> Nother thing, what would be a "safe test" for how long overloading
> a driver would take.  If I wanted to see if something was going to
> work on injector drivers, how long in running them would it take to
> see if they fail?.
>   I have two items to test, running 16 injectors off of a 8 cyl TPI ecm
>   Running 4 P+H injectors where 2 are normally fittted.
> I would figure if the ecm gets only warm to the touch that would be one
> clue.
> Cheers
> Bruce
> 
> 
Probably by default it will get warm under normal conditions.  You
would probably need to find out what temp would damage the driver
transisters.   If you know the max temp, you would then need to
measure the temp on the driver.  I guess if you where worried you
could put a sensor on the drivers and have it warn you if you
where getting close.  Also if you cool the drivers (fans
generally) that will most likely increase the lifetime of the
drivers.  Also to properly test, you would have to do the test
under at least two extreams (hot 108 maybe, and cold) either extream
could make the drivers burn out depending on how the other components
increase or decrease the current.    

On overloading there are several different ways, one way is to
overload and smoke almost immediately, but there are alot of other
situations where the lifetime of the driver is significantly reduced,
and this one is generally what will get you.    You could reduce the
lifetime from years, to months and just have it burn on you while
driving.

Semiconductors failure mode from being old is having the parts that
make it a transistor migrate to other parts where they are not
supposed to be.   Higher temps increase the migration rate, so running
it over temp may not fail it immediately, but can result in it failing
much sooner.

I have seen automatic (motion) light sensors that had 2x the power ran
through it.   The electriction replaced it twice and each one burned
out, before he figured out that it was massively overloaded, but took
days to actually burn out.   The how close things get to the max temp
will probably be the best way to tell.   If possible adding a bigger
heat sink will also improve chances.

			Roger

------------------------------

From: xxalexx@xxx.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:53:11 +0000
Subject: Re: Fp regulator mods

>     Where can I get a balanced port industrial valve and how do I explain to them what I want?
Check a hydraulics store.  They were or are very common in surplus 
catalogs.
alex

------------------------------

From: xxalexx@xxx.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:53:11 +0000
Subject: RE: Motronic Interface ?

> I am thinking the same way.
> On the wiring schematic of the car, there are 2 lines from the ECU to this
> conector (RX&TX   or   Signal&Gnd ?).
This could be K and L lines or maybe a CAN
alex
> I'll keep you informed on my findings.
> Cheers
> Carlo

------------------------------

From: xxalexx@xxx.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:53:10 +0000
Subject: Re: Wide Ratio Bosch O2

> Thank you for the SAE paper number Bruce. If I come up on something else
> considering O2 sensors I will post it.
> I have lately come up to some very strange Bosch O2 sensors fitted in
> 1997- model VW and Seat. They look like standard foor wire sensors(2 for
> heater, 1 signal, 1 ecu ground) but when I tapped into the signal line I
> saw a range of 0-1500mV and not the usual 0-1000mV. I thought that the
> this 1 Volt range was the limit of the ceramic element's capability to
> create voltage. Though these sensors are not wide ratio I remain
> puzzled.???
> 
I had some strange 0-3volt readings from a early 90's euro toyland 
cruiser. Most likely a resistive sensor.
alex.
  

------------------------------

From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:31:52 -0700
Subject: Re: Fp regulator mods

>At 03:21 PM 1/11/99 -0700, Greg wrote:
>(snip)
>>Another possibility, if you want REALLY accurate control, would be to
>>REDUCE the size of the port
>
>    Which port; return, input or valve?

The valve port.
>
>>in the Mallory valve down to about .060"

Maybe .125", tho.

>>diameter (with a bushing), get the control rate the way you want it as
>>discussed above, and then use the Mallory regulator as a PILOT valve to
>>operate an industrial grade control valve with a BALANCED port,

Basically, the valve is arranged so that motion of the valve's plug so as
to open or close its port is neither resisted not aided by the pressure
differential across the valve.
>
>    Please explain how a BALANCED port works.

What the above means is that it takes very little force to move the valve's
plug through its full range from open to closed.

>    Also, would the Mallory return port feed the IGCValve?  I am having
>trouble SEEING the final product; how would the fuel get back to the tank?
>

The output flow from the Mallory valve, acting as a pilot valve is what
would open the main valve against a fairly light spring. You would pipe the
output of the Mallory valve to the actuator port of the main valve.
Usually, the main valve will have an internal orifice which bleeds this
actuation pressure to the return line, but the bleed orifice can also be
piped external to the main valve. Basically, when the fuel pressure is high
enough to open the pilot valve, the relief flow through the pilot valve
acts to open the main valve. If the fuel pressure drops below the control
point, the main valve closes in response to the lack of relief flow from
the pilot valve.
>
>
>>and with said port sized correctly for your particular flow situation!! >Said
>>industrial valves in the size range we are talking about would prolly set
>>you back about one portrait of Ben (otherwise known as a "fun coupon"!!)
>
>    Where can I get a balanced port industrial valve and how do I explain
>to them what I want?

I think I would be inclined to pick one intended for use to control
refrigerant flow, since refrigeration systems very commonly use their own
refrigerant to operate the system's control valves--they do it this way in
order to minimize the number of packings, etc. which might leak refrigerant
to the atmosphere--which is just what you want with a fuel system. These
valves are even OK to use with propane (it is sometimes used as a
refrigerant, particularly in refineries, where it doesn't much matter if
there is one more thing around to go BOOM!!).

Manufacturers of sontrol valves intended for use with refrigerants include
Parker/Refrigerating Specialties, Alco, Sporlan, Hubbell, Hansen/Danfoss,
Phillips. The valves can generally be had in either brass or ductile iron
(iron only in sizes way bigger than we would be interested in.) Be happy to
try to pick out a couple of part numbers if numbers are available as to
fuel flow, pump size, etc. A typical  HVAC&R wholesaler would be an
appropriate place to order/buy one. Some of the mfgr's will sell direct.
Get hold off list, and I will see if I can dig up a copy of a sectional
view of a valve like I am talking about to clear up your picture.
>
>>Regards, Greg
>>
>>
>>

------------------------------

From: cosmic.ray@xxx.com (Raymond C Drouillard)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:15:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Photo Radar

>They only act that way east of the Mississippi . East of the 
>Sierra/Cascade
>crest and west of the 100th parallel, they don't ;even consider it, cuz
>they assume that even more lead might come back the other way!! :-)

West of the 100th parellel?  Where's that?  500 miles north of the north
pole?  ;-)

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------------------------------

From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:43:36 -0700
Subject: Re: carbide cylinder bore conversion (Bore Tech)

>In a message dated 1/11/99 3:39:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, bearbvd@xxx.net
>writes:
>
><< Yeah--as always, some luck will be needed. Your use of the words "solid
> lap" got me to thinking some more--mebbe the liner should be finished to
> the same bore as the polished bores in the block, but with a cross-hatch
> pattern from maybe #80 or #120 stones, and then be given the carbide
> treatment. The thought is that maybe this approach would give the lapping
> compound somewhere to "hide" and something to work against. What do you
> think??
>
> If Enco is Sears, does that make MSC = J C Penney's?? :-)
>
> Regards, Greg
>
>  >>
>On the solid laps they often cut a small spiral groove to carry the lapping
>compound and let the swarf (removed material) float out of the way. Honing to
>size would be best, be careful about how coarse a finish you leave. The peaks
>will wear away and the lap will go oversize very quickly. Might try a small
>spiral grove in the bore. Interestingly, when they lap Granite surface plates,
>they use a cast iron plate, and charge (the term for applying lapping compound
>to a lap) the lap with dry diamond powder by crushing it into the cast iron
>with a hardened steel roller and then working the high spots down like block
>sanding. Might work well as it would keep the lap from dying as quickly. You
>could charge the lap with a rod and a radiused race bearing by rotating it in
>a lathe.
>As for MSC, it is more like Neiman Marcus in comparison.
>Fred

Aha!! Maybe hone the liner/lap with a coarse set of stones, and then polish
it to final size, but leaving some of the deeper grooves showing!! Thus,
lots of smooth surface at finish size, and slower wear to oversize, but
plenty of grooves to "charge" with the lapping compound.

If memory serves, a pitch lap and rouge are what is used on glass for final
figuring and polishing of optical lenses and mirrors. Also know a fellow
who has been known to use toothpaste to lap gears from a motorcycle tranny
to each other.

Thanks!!

Regards, Greg

------------------------------

From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:46:06 -0700
Subject: Re: air/fuel gauge

>March Custom rodder has add for
>Dakota Digital air/fuel mixture gauge
>Displays mV, works with 1 to 3 wire EGO
>Phone 800-852-3228

About impossible for it to do more than say rich/stoich/lean with a
standard HEGO sensor. For it to claim more is BS.

Greg

------------------------------

From: Jake Sternberg <chickens@xxx.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:01:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Aluminum V8 PICTURES

I am still selling an aluminum 215 CI V8 engine
for $500.00 (not including shipping) to the first
person who sends the money.

Pictures are available at the following URL:
(sorry, no descriptions yet)

http://www.anet-chi.com/~stash/volvo/v8/

If you have any questions about this engine
(comes with a transmission!) or if you want
to buy it, email:  chickens@xxx.edu

- -jake

------------------------------

From: Paul Ruschman <prusch@xxx.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:56:57 -0800
Subject: Testing........

	Please ignore.

		Thank you,
Paul (BRAAP) Ruschman
'75 280 ZR-1
0-60, 4.2 sec.
1/4 mi, 12.3 @ 113 MPH
http://www.datsuns.com/projects/paulrproject.htm

------------------------------

From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:39:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Fp regulator mods

>>     Where can I get a balanced port industrial valve and how do I
>>explain to them what I want?
>Check a hydraulics store.  They were or are very common in surplus
>catalogs.
>alex

Yep--this would be a better choice than refrigeration stuff--spent some
tome with nose in catalogues this evening. You want a pilot operated valve.

Greg

------------------------------

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