DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 13 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 032 In this issue: Re: TCC lockup - which scheme would give better performance? Stepper Motors Fwd: ECM Module Help #1226823 RE: Factory Instrument Panels Re: ECM Module Help #1226823 Re: ECM Module Help #1226823 Re: Fp regulator mods (HELP) Re: TCC lockup - which scheme would give better performance? Handy reference Option Codes (Off Topic) Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) Injector Selection Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) Re: Searchable archives question Re: Injector Selection Re: Injector Selection Re: Injector Selection GM TPI tips for a newbie Re: Injector Selection Re: GM TPI tips for a newbie Re: Factory Instrument Panels Re: GM TPI tips for a newbie Re: GM TPI tips for a newbie Non List Content- Re: Factory Instrument Panels Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) Re: GM TPI tips for a newbie Re: Factory Instrument Panels Re: GM TPI tips for a newbie See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Parker" Date: 14 Jan 99 00:30:47 +1200 Subject: Re: TCC lockup - which scheme would give better performance? Roger Heflin wrote: >I am not worried about the torque multiplication. I am just happy if >the torque convertor is slipping enough to put me at a higher torque >position on the engine. Probably before the TCC was locking up at >somewhere around peak torque, now my peak torque is higher, I guess I >should lock it around peak engine torque. I know virtually nothing about automatics, but if I had such a cammy engine with a manual box, then I would just wring it out further before changing gear. In my mini I slip the clutch and/or the wheels at about 3500-4000 rpm until the wheels stop slipping, and the wring it out to 7000 or so. Changing gear, even with a standard gearbox still keeps me in the power band. Why can't you just move the shift points of the auto? I suppose they must be difficult to change or you would have done it already, right? - -- Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ From: bob@xxx.com (Robert Harris) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:25:46 GMT Subject: Stepper Motors Thanks for all the input on stepper motors. Am working on putting together a very simple fly by wire system and needed a certain way of setting small valves. Thanks again for the info. 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore ------------------------------ From: "David A. Cooley" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:27:29 -0500 Subject: Fwd: ECM Module Help #1226823 This is from another list I'm on... Anyone know what these are? >X-Sender: machusak@xxx.com >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 >Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:41:13 -0500 >To: gnttype@xxx.org >From: Jeffrey Machusak >Subject: ECM Module Help #1226823 >Sender: owner-gnttype@xxx.org >Reply-To: gnttype@xxx.org > >I have several ECM Modules with the part # 1226823. Does anybody what >these are? I can't find the number anywhere. > > >Thanks >Jeff =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:44:55 -0600 Subject: RE: Factory Instrument Panels David, you should have the check today or tomorrow. The instrument panel I got to change my truck over to a tach has a resistor on the back mounted in two clips. Don > -----Original Message----- > From: David A. Cooley [SMTP:n5xmt@xxx.net] > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 8:35 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: Factory Instrument Panels > > At 08:38 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Has anyone ever used a GM gage package in anything that they have adapted > to > >EFI? > > > >The reason I am asking is I need to adapt a tachometer module from a 90 > >Turbo Sunbird to a 91 Sunbird. The difference is the 90 is a four > cylinder > >car, and the 91 is a 3.1V6. The tach is reading about 50% higher in the > V6 > >(which makes sense because for every 2 pulses it expects to see, it > receives > >three). > > > >If there is no simple solution, does anyone have a circuit that will > delete > >every third pulse from the spark module? I don't know what voltage the > >signal is, but it is a 3.1V6 with the distributorless 3-coil module. > Since > >there fairly common, i'm hoping someone knows ;) > > Scott, > Usually there is a resistor to be changed in a tach for the number of > cyls... not sure if the dash's had a switch or jumper or socketed > resistor, > but I can't see them using 2 different tachs for the same year, different > engine... I'd pull the guage cluster and check around the tach circuitry. > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be > approximated. > =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:05:53 EST Subject: Re: ECM Module Help #1226823 Hi Dave, It's not in my book, which covers 81-93 GM.. Any other possible (161xxxx, 160xxxx, 122xxxx) numbers on it? Mike V ------------------------------ From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:21:06 EST Subject: Re: ECM Module Help #1226823 I couldn't find it in a book that lists Yankee cars. It may be a valid number elsewhere.. HTH Mike V ------------------------------ From: Clarence Wood Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:37:24 -0600 Subject: Re: Fp regulator mods (HELP) I have contacted Hydraulics Analysis in Corinth Miss. and asked them about the industrial control valve with balanced port. Here is what he said: He had never heard of a balanced port, not that it didn't exist, just that he didn't know what it was. The minimum pressure for the valves were 500psi. He asked if the it was a three port valve: in, out, pilot. I read, to him, Greg's description of a balanced port valve and he didn't know what that was and asked if a pilot operated valve was the same as balanced port valve. He said that the problem may be in semantics, that it could be called something else. He said he would check through his books and see what he could find; I am to call he back tomorrow. Can anybody give me some more specific information on finding a pilot operated industrial control valve with balanced ports?? At 08:31 PM 1/11/99 -0700, you wrote: >>At 03:21 PM 1/11/99 -0700, Greg wrote: >>(snip) >>>Another possibility, if you want REALLY accurate control, would be to >>>REDUCE the size of the port >> >> Which port; return, input or valve? > >The valve port. >> >>>in the Mallory valve down to about .060" > >Maybe .125", tho. > >>>diameter (with a bushing), get the control rate the way you want it as >>>discussed above, and then use the Mallory regulator as a PILOT valve to >>>operate an industrial grade control valve with a BALANCED port, > >Basically, the valve is arranged so that motion of the valve's plug so as >to open or close its port is neither resisted not aided by the pressure >differential across the valve. >> >> Please explain how a BALANCED port works. > >What the above means is that it takes very little force to move the valve's >plug through its full range from open to closed. > >> Also, would the Mallory return port feed the IGCValve? I am having >>trouble SEEING the final product; how would the fuel get back to the tank? >> > >The output flow from the Mallory valve, acting as a pilot valve is what >would open the main valve against a fairly light spring. You would pipe the >output of the Mallory valve to the actuator port of the main valve. >Usually, the main valve will have an internal orifice which bleeds this >actuation pressure to the return line, but the bleed orifice can also be >piped external to the main valve. Basically, when the fuel pressure is high >enough to open the pilot valve, the relief flow through the pilot valve >acts to open the main valve. If the fuel pressure drops below the control >point, the main valve closes in response to the lack of relief flow from >the pilot valve. >> >> >>>and with said port sized correctly for your particular flow situation!! >Said >>>industrial valves in the size range we are talking about would prolly set >>>you back about one portrait of Ben (otherwise known as a "fun coupon"!!) >> >> Where can I get a balanced port industrial valve and how do I explain >>to them what I want? > >I think I would be inclined to pick one intended for use to control >refrigerant flow, since refrigeration systems very commonly use their own >refrigerant to operate the system's control valves--they do it this way in >order to minimize the number of packings, etc. which might leak refrigerant >to the atmosphere--which is just what you want with a fuel system. These >valves are even OK to use with propane (it is sometimes used as a >refrigerant, particularly in refineries, where it doesn't much matter if >there is one more thing around to go BOOM!!). > >Manufacturers of sontrol valves intended for use with refrigerants include >Parker/Refrigerating Specialties, Alco, Sporlan, Hubbell, Hansen/Danfoss, >Phillips. The valves can generally be had in either brass or ductile iron >(iron only in sizes way bigger than we would be interested in.) Be happy to >try to pick out a couple of part numbers if numbers are available as to >fuel flow, pump size, etc. A typical HVAC&R wholesaler would be an >appropriate place to order/buy one. Some of the mfgr's will sell direct. >Get hold off list, and I will see if I can dig up a copy of a sectional >view of a valve like I am talking about to clear up your picture. >> >>>Regards, Greg >>> >>> >>> > > > ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:46:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: TCC lockup - which scheme would give better performance? On 14 Jan 1999, Tom Parker wrote: > Roger Heflin wrote: > > >I am not worried about the torque multiplication. I am just happy if > >the torque convertor is slipping enough to put me at a higher torque > >position on the engine. Probably before the TCC was locking up at > >somewhere around peak torque, now my peak torque is higher, I guess I > >should lock it around peak engine torque. > > I know virtually nothing about automatics, but if I had such a cammy engine > with a manual box, then I would just wring it out further before changing > gear. In my mini I slip the clutch and/or the wheels at about 3500-4000 rpm > until the wheels stop slipping, and the wring it out to 7000 or so. Changing > gear, even with a standard gearbox still keeps me in the power band. > > Why can't you just move the shift points of the auto? I suppose they must be > difficult to change or you would have done it already, right? > The shift points are hard to change, supposely change springs by trial and error. I manually shift it with a shift light, and I believe I am already shifting at the optimal point. If I raise the shift point 200 rpm then I seem to go slower. I have tested several times, and the optimal shift light settings is at 6000, which means by the time I shift it and the tranny finished that the engine has hit 6300-6400 rpm. I have looked at the settings and the idea is to lock the TCC high in 2nd and give me a few more mph in 2nd. It looks like it should give me 6 more mph before needing to shift. I have devised a way to do it without adding any code. I will just need to change a branch statement , and adjust some data. I figure since it is already locking up at WOT there should not be any more power at WOT in 2nd than in 3rd where the factory already has it lockup. Also as I play to set it up it wil unlock when it goes into 3rd. Roger ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:34:30 -0500 Subject: Handy reference This page seems to link to summaries of factory service bulletins. http://www.chekchart.com/direct.html Shannen ------------------------------ From: kv@xxx.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:56:56 -0700 Subject: Option Codes (Off Topic) Has anyone seen a listing (or know how I can get one) of the three digit "option codes" and their associated options for a given vehicle? I have a new (used) car and am wondering what the thing came with. ________________________________________________ Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: "Andrew K. Mattei" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:28:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) Assuming you've got a GM car (RPO codes), the Grand National page has quite a bit of info (at http://ni.umd.edu/gnttype/www/rpo.html), or my friend MadMike has most RPO codes for '67-92 Camaros at http://www.nastyz28.com - under the "Camaro and Z28 info". There's other stuff out there, but these are the 2 sites I know of immediately. HTH, - -Andrew kv@xxx.com wrote: > > Has anyone seen a listing (or know how I can get one) of the three digit > "option codes" and their associated options for a given vehicle? > > I have a new (used) car and am wondering what the thing came with. ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:29:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 kv@xxx.com wrote: > > Has anyone seen a listing (or know how I can get one) of the three digit > "option codes" and their associated options for a given vehicle? > > I have a new (used) car and am wondering what the thing came with. > On the GM cars it is generally in the factory service manual (helm). If someone else on the list has the vehicle and year and a factory service manual then they could tell you, or if you can get access to a factory service manual. Roger ------------------------------ From: David Rhoads Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:04:34 -0500 Subject: Injector Selection I'm trying to track down a suitable set of injectors for the following, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. apprx 19 lb/hr, 2.5gm/s ... @ apprx 40psi preferrably Peak & hold for a Port injection setup. I'll need to know the resistance for driver circuitry. Another preferance would be a cone valve with a narrow spray pattern. Application, manufacturer and part # is also needed for the folks at the parts counter. Most of the information that I've been able to find on the www seems to be missing at least one piece of this info. Most tech departments aren't willing/able to provide the info needed for even thier own products. Go figure! TIA - -- . David Rhoads II . Applied Dynamics International . 3800 Stone School Road, Ann Arbor, Mi 48108 . (734) 973-1300 . rhoads@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:04:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) If it's GM, I can sometimes help. Also, there are "option code" books which seem to float all around the dealership parts and service departments. Be aware, option code can change from year to year (look at LT1 for example) Shannen diy_efi@xxx.edu wrote: > > Has anyone seen a listing (or know how I can get one) of the three digit > "option codes" and their associated options for a given vehicle? > > I have a new (used) car and am wondering what the thing came with. > > ________________________________________________ > Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development > 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: jsg@xxx.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:15:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Searchable archives question |Who controls the archives for the list? Would it be possible to change |the context (body) search to be a regexp instead of or-ing search |words together. The or-ing is the default... you can do things like (schematic OR diagram) AND driver AND stepper The directions on using that should be changed. john ------------------------------ From: "Peter Fenske" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:30:02 -0800 Subject: Re: Injector Selection Hi David Stock 5.0 mustang and 5.0 gm TPI should fill your bill although they are saturated. GL;peter David Rhoads on 01/13/99 11:04:34 AM Please respond to diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu cc: sdscott@xxx.edu(bcc: Peter Fenske/BCIT) Subject: Injector Selection I'm trying to track down a suitable set of injectors for the following, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. apprx 19 lb/hr, 2.5gm/s ... @ apprx 40psi preferrably Peak & hold for a Port injection setup. I'll need to know the resistance for driver circuitry. Another preferance would be a cone valve with a narrow spray pattern. Application, manufacturer and part # is also needed for the folks at the parts counter. Most of the information that I've been able to find on the www seems to be missing at least one piece of this info. Most tech departments aren't willing/able to provide the info needed for even thier own products. Go figure! TIA - -- . David Rhoads II . Applied Dynamics International . 3800 Stone School Road, Ann Arbor, Mi 48108 . (734) 973-1300 . rhoads@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:22:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Injector Selection This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01BE3F19.3B77ECC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - -----Original Message----- From: Peter Fenske To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Injector Selection Sorry to do it this way, but, it's the only way I have to get the info.. out.. Steve R ya wanna post this at the archives?. Cheers Bruce > > >Hi David > >Stock 5.0 mustang and 5.0 gm TPI should fill your bill although >they are saturated. > >GL;peter > > > > > >David Rhoads on 01/13/99 11:04:34 AM > >Please respond to diy_efi@xxx.edu > > > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > cc: sdscott@xxx.edu(bcc: > Peter Fenske/BCIT) > > > > Subject: Injector Selection > > > > > > > > > >I'm trying to track down a suitable set of injectors for the following, >any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > >apprx 19 lb/hr, 2.5gm/s ... @ apprx 40psi >preferrably Peak & hold for a Port injection setup. >I'll need to know the resistance for driver circuitry. >Another preferance would be a cone valve with a narrow spray pattern. > >Application, manufacturer and part # is also needed for the folks at the >parts counter. > >Most of the information that I've been able to find on the www >seems to be missing at least one piece of this info. Most tech >departments aren't willing/able to provide the info needed for even >thier own products. Go figure! > >TIA > >-- >. David Rhoads II >. Applied Dynamics International >. 3800 Stone School Road, Ann Arbor, Mi 48108 >. (734) 973-1300 >. rhoads@xxx.com > > > - ------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01BE3F19.3B77ECC0 Content-Type: text/plain; name="ford.txt.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ford.txt.txt" Flow PSI Resist Mfg. Part Color Application 1.76 (14) ?? 2.25 Bosch E3EE-BA Blue 1983 1.6L 1.76 (14) ?? 2.35 ND E4EE-AA Blue 1984 1.6L 1.76 (14) 30 16.20 ND E59E-AB Gray 1985-6 2.3L Truck, 5.0L = SEFI 1.76 (14) 33 14.50 Bosch E67C-AB Gray 1986 2.9L, 3.0L 1.76 (14) 33 14.50 Bosch E67E-BB Gray 1986 5.0L SEFI 2.45 (19) 40 2.25 Bosch E6EE-AB White 1985-6 1.9L 2.45 (19) 32 16.20 ND E6TE-AB Gold 1986 5.0L HO SEFI 2.45 (19) 33 16.20 DKK E5TE-AB Gold 1985-6 5.0L Truck 2.45 (19) 33 14.50 Bosch E5TE-BB Gold 1986 5.8L Truck 3.00 (23) ?? 2.40 Bosch E4EX-AA Black 1984-5 1.6L Turbo 3.86 (30) 35-45 2.40 Bosch E3ZE-BA Green 1983 2.3L Turbo 3.86 (30) 35-45 2.35 DKK E4ZE-AA Green 1984 2.3L Turbo 4.41 (35) 35-45 2.35 DKK E5ZE-AB Gold 1985-6 2.3L Turbo 4.54 (37) 40 2.25 Bosch E3VE-A1A Green 1984-6 3.8L CFI 4.54 (37) 40 2.0 ND E3VE-A2A Green 1984-6 3.8L CFI 5.81 (46) 33 2.40 Bosch EOSE-A1A Blue 1980-3 5.0L CFI 5.81 (46) 33 2.00 ND EOSE-A2A Blue 1983-4 5.0L CFI 5.81 (46) 33 2.25 Bosch EOSE-A1A Blue 1984 5.0L CFI 6.60 (52) 32 2.25 Bosch E4ZE-CA Gray 1984-5 5.0L HO CFI 7.00 (56) 16 1.40 Bosch E43E-AC Blue 1985-6 2.3L HSC 8.00 (64) 16 1.40 Bosch E53E-AB Green 1985-6 2.3L HO HSC, 2.5L = HSC The flow rate is gm/sec and lb/hr in parenthesis. The resistance is = obvious. The manufacturer is next, I think ND is Nippondeso (sp?), I can't place = DKK. The part number is constructed as follows. All injectors carry a basic = part number 9F593, which is prefixed with a production release, and followed = by a revision/application code. For example E3EE-BA from the table will be E3EE-9F593-BA to your local dealer. The tops of the injectors are color coded, as a quick check to the technician to make sure an engine = contains the "same" injectors. I included some sample applications which may help = the dealer if you are buying new, or yourself if scrounging in a junk yard. I don't know what was used for the density of the fuel. I typically use 0.79 (rounded up to 0.8 for "quickie" calculations), and I have seen = John use 0.775 for "racing" fuel. - ------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01BE3F19.3B77ECC0-- ------------------------------ From: "Walter Sherwin" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:44:09 -0800 Subject: Re: Injector Selection Dave, Kinsler Fuel Injection is right in your backyard and they have a tremendous selection of injectors. They are also quite helpful people. You can look them up at 1-248-362-1145 in Troy, Michigan. - -----Original Message----- From: David Rhoads To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Cc: sdscott@xxx.edu Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 11:56 AM Subject: Injector Selection >I'm trying to track down a suitable set of injectors for the following, >any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > >apprx 19 lb/hr, 2.5gm/s ... @ apprx 40psi >preferrably Peak & hold for a Port injection setup. >I'll need to know the resistance for driver circuitry. >Another preferance would be a cone valve with a narrow spray pattern. > >Application, manufacturer and part # is also needed for the folks at the >parts counter. > >Most of the information that I've been able to find on the www >seems to be missing at least one piece of this info. Most tech >departments aren't willing/able to provide the info needed for even >thier own products. Go figure! > >TIA > >-- >. David Rhoads II >. Applied Dynamics International >. 3800 Stone School Road, Ann Arbor, Mi 48108 >. (734) 973-1300 >. rhoads@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:30:34 -0500 Subject: GM TPI tips for a newbie Hi all, I joined the list to gain more info on EFI operations and maybe a little knowledge, If I don't get lost too quickly! I have a 1987 Monte Carlo SS as a pet project. I recently installed a built 406 and I've been contemplating an EFI swap. Well, I stumbled onto a TPI setup from a 1985 5.0 Camaro and contemplation time seems to be over :) The 406 flows A WHOLE LOT MORE AIR than the 5.0 so I know I need to use larger injectors. My guess was 28-32 Lb units but I'm not sure. I've spoken with a few places about a custom chip for the ECM but everyone seems to carry "Off the Shelf" chips instead of doing any custom work. I'm unsure of my options at this point. Charles ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:39:53 -0600 Subject: Re: Injector Selection Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Fenske > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 4:58 PM > Subject: Re: Injector Selection > > Sorry to do it this way, but, it's the only way I have to get the info.. > out.. > Steve R ya wanna post this at the archives?. > Cheers > Bruce Done, look under Ford in the "OEM systems" section - --steve ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:45:14 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: GM TPI tips for a newbie On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Charles Brooks wrote: > Hi all, I joined the list to gain more info on EFI operations > and maybe a little knowledge, If I don't get lost too quickly! > > I have a 1987 Monte Carlo SS as a pet project. I recently > installed a built 406 and I've been contemplating an EFI swap. > Well, I stumbled onto a TPI setup from a 1985 5.0 Camaro and > contemplation time seems to be over :) > > The 406 flows A WHOLE LOT MORE AIR than the 5.0 so I know I > need to use larger injectors. My guess was 28-32 Lb units but > I'm not sure. I've spoken with a few places about a custom > chip for the ECM but everyone seems to carry "Off the Shelf" > chips instead of doing any custom work. I'm unsure of my > options at this point. > > Charles > I don't think a 5.0 intake will flow enough air to feed a 406. That will be your major restriction. There are aftermarket (ACCEL) intake manifolds that should flow the required amounts but aren't cheap. On the custom chips, there are people on this list reverse engineering their chips and determine what addresses need to be adjusted to get the needed performance. I am working on my 93 Z28 computer. Roger 93 Z28 ------------------------------ From: Ludis Langens Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:50:36 -0800 Subject: Re: Factory Instrument Panels "Scott Feaver" wrote: > The reason I am asking is I need to adapt a tachometer module from a 90 > Turbo Sunbird to a 91 Sunbird. The difference is the 90 is a four cylinder > car, and the 91 is a 3.1V6. The tach is reading about 50% higher in the V6 > (which makes sense because for every 2 pulses it expects to see, it receives > three). As other's have mentioned, GM likes to use the NatSemi chip. GM's circuit is almost the same as the schematic in NatSemi's data sheet. An RC combination calibrates the tach. I doubt you can find a temperature stable capacitor of the correct value. So you should change the resistor. On the tach circuit board you'll find a thin (thick?) film resistor pack (in a DIP package). The resistor element on the top layer is the calibration element. You'll notice it is laser trimmed/cut. You'll need to bypass this resistor with your own. What's the redline on the 2.0turbo tach? The 3.1 might need a different limit - probably 6000 rpm. Of course this is just an instrumentation issue. The tach redline needn't agree with the ECM redline. "David A. Cooley" wrote: > Usually there is a resistor to be changed in a tach for the number of > cyls... not sure if the dash's had a switch or jumper or socketed resistor, > but I can't see them using 2 different tachs for the same year, different > engine... Wanna bet? A parts book shows eight different tachs used in one model of car over a five year range. (L4 vs V6, US vs Canada, non-backlit vs backlit, w/ oil gauge vs w/ volt gauge vs w/ no gauge) - -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ ------------------------------ From: "David Sagers" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:21:29 -0700 Subject: Re: GM TPI tips for a newbie In putting a TPI on a 406 the factory settings work just fine with the 28 lbs injectors, but a built motor is very different than a stock motor. For a stock 406 28 lb injectors are all that's needed. If it's built the perhaps a 30 lb. Also consider finding a programable system so that you can dial in the fuel & ignition curves to match your cam, headers, etc... I would look for a computer that can be programmed from a lap top while you drive. Other members can tell you how to burn new chips. It's your choice. >>> Charles Brooks 01/13 4:30 PM >>> Hi all, I joined the list to gain more info on EFI operations and maybe a little knowledge, If I don't get lost too quickly! I have a 1987 Monte Carlo SS as a pet project. I recently installed a built 406 and I've been contemplating an EFI swap. Well, I stumbled onto a TPI setup from a 1985 5.0 Camaro and contemplation time seems to be over :) The 406 flows A WHOLE LOT MORE AIR than the 5.0 so I know I need to use larger injectors. My guess was 28-32 Lb units but I'm not sure. I've spoken with a few places about a custom chip for the ECM but everyone seems to carry "Off the Shelf" chips instead of doing any custom work. I'm unsure of my options at this point. Charles ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:31:23 -0500 Subject: Re: GM TPI tips for a newbie Hi, Charles. The first thing to consider is that the early style TPI is a great torque producer, but tended to run out of oomph! above 4500 rpm. What rpm range is your 406 built to make power in? Next is that the larger the cam, the more "tuning time" needs to be invested in order to get "bug free" driveability. There are many stories around of chip tuners who just couldn't get it right. There is a lot of information contained in the letter archives for this list, which can be linked to from here http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/ And this page has a fuel injector size calculator: http://sura1.jlab.org/~grippo/auto.html Have fun, and welcome to the list. Shannen diy_efi@xxx.edu wrote: > > Hi all, I joined the list to gain more info on EFI operations > and maybe a little knowledge, If I don't get lost too quickly! > > I have a 1987 Monte Carlo SS as a pet project. I recently > installed a built 406 and I've been contemplating an EFI swap. > Well, I stumbled onto a TPI setup from a 1985 5.0 Camaro and > contemplation time seems to be over :) > > The 406 flows A WHOLE LOT MORE AIR than the 5.0 so I know I > need to use larger injectors. My guess was 28-32 Lb units but > I'm not sure. I've spoken with a few places about a custom > chip for the ECM but everyone seems to carry "Off the Shelf" > chips instead of doing any custom work. I'm unsure of my > options at this point. > > Charles ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:34:00 -0500 Subject: Non List Content- As a side note, my new ISP claims they cannot provide me with enough email header info to distinguish where messages are from. If anyone has any experience with this, or happens to know of a source for some info about it, I'd be obliged to ya. Shannen ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:42:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Factory Instrument Panels diy_efi@xxx.edu wrote: > > "David A. Cooley" wrote: > > Usually there is a resistor to be changed in a tach for the number of > > cyls... not sure if the dash's had a switch or jumper or socketed resistor, > > but I can't see them using 2 different tachs for the same year, different > > engine... > > Wanna bet? A parts book shows eight different tachs used in one model > of car over a five year range. (L4 vs V6, US vs Canada, non-backlit vs > backlit, w/ oil gauge vs w/ volt gauge vs w/ no gauge) > > -- > Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com > Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ Yeah, I'm still trying to convert metric RPM into standard RPM. Shannen ------------------------------ From: "soren" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:01:11 -0800 Subject: Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) >If it's GM, I can sometimes help. Also, there are "option code" books >which seem to float all around the dealership parts and service >departments. Be aware, option code can change from year to year (look >at LT1 for example) Most dealerships get more of those little white booklets than they can actually use. If you go down and ask for one at the parts counter, they might sell or give one to you. The option code booklets come out each year, but they keep all old codes that have not changed; some current booklets list codes from more than 10 years ago. Soren Rounds ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:09:48 -0500 Subject: Re: GM TPI tips for a newbie - -----Original Message----- From: Charles Brooks To: DIY_EFI Fuel Injection List Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 6:40 PM Subject: GM TPI tips for a newbie Your options, are dictated only by what you want to spend or learn. If you have money, and just want to get something running as mentioned a laptop programable ecm is an option. If you have a laptop, and $695 to $3,000. If you want to learn, and crack the ecm program $150. You want to use the oem ecm but forgo all the "cracking" The Turbo Shop has programs for "burning" chips. Mechanically there isn't much difference from what you have to a 89, but ecm/MAF wise there is a difference. You could go to the 90-92 ecm, and go MAP. Best thing is reading the archives, and figure what works best for you. Might read some about Programming 101, if your starting at ground zero and really want to learn something. Cheers+Welcome Bruce >Hi all, I joined the list to gain more info on EFI operations >and maybe a little knowledge, If I don't get lost too quickly! > >I have a 1987 Monte Carlo SS as a pet project. I recently >installed a built 406 and I've been contemplating an EFI swap. >Well, I stumbled onto a TPI setup from a 1985 5.0 Camaro and >contemplation time seems to be over :) > >The 406 flows A WHOLE LOT MORE AIR than the 5.0 so I know I >need to use larger injectors. My guess was 28-32 Lb units but >I'm not sure. I've spoken with a few places about a custom >chip for the ECM but everyone seems to carry "Off the Shelf" >chips instead of doing any custom work. I'm unsure of my >options at this point. > >Charles > ------------------------------ From: todd israels Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:20:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Factory Instrument Panels At 08:38 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone ever used a GM gage package in anything that they have adapted to >EFI? > >The reason I am asking is I need to adapt a tachometer module from a 90 >Turbo Sunbird to a 91 Sunbird. The difference is the 90 is a four cylinder >car, and the 91 is a 3.1V6. The tach is reading about 50% higher in the V6 >(which makes sense because for every 2 pulses it expects to see, it receives >three). > >If there is no simple solution, does anyone have a circuit that will delete >every third pulse from the spark module? I don't know what voltage the >signal is, but it is a 3.1V6 with the distributorless 3-coil module. Since >there fairly common, i'm hoping someone knows ;) > >Thanks, >Scott > > Somewhere in my Fiero notes I have information on wich capacitor to change to recalibrate tach. I had to recalibrate mine from 4 to V8 and also my brothers 914 Porche. I remember very few capacitors on the board and used a 555 clock curcuit to calibrate. Set the 555 to display 4000(L4) on the bench then use capacitor substitution box to tune tac to 2000 RPM(V8) or 3000?(V6). ------------------------------ From: "Peter Fenske" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:11:56 -0800 Subject: Re: GM TPI tips for a newbie Hi Charles For the money the stock setup is ok. You peak rpm is gonna be about 4500 rpm but the torgue is awesome. Buy SVO injectors from ford. The 24# would do the job and run bout 200$ a set. As for calibrating your chip there is a lot of helpful people round here. With the 406 you are facing the same lemma as me. My vette runs a traction limited 13.2 at about 107 with the stock manifold. The way to get bout a half second is to go with the tpis miniram..But they cost in gold.. Bigger runners, the superram are just a crutch when you deal with 383s and 406s.. gl:peter Charles Brooks on 01/13/99 03:30:34 PM Please respond to diy_efi@xxx.edu To: DIY_EFI Fuel Injection List cc: (bcc: Peter Fenske/BCIT) Subject: GM TPI tips for a newbie Hi all, I joined the list to gain more info on EFI operations and maybe a little knowledge, If I don't get lost too quickly! I have a 1987 Monte Carlo SS as a pet project. I recently installed a built 406 and I've been contemplating an EFI swap. Well, I stumbled onto a TPI setup from a 1985 5.0 Camaro and contemplation time seems to be over :) The 406 flows A WHOLE LOT MORE AIR than the 5.0 so I know I need to use larger injectors. My guess was 28-32 Lb units but I'm not sure. I've spoken with a few places about a custom chip for the ECM but everyone seems to carry "Off the Shelf" chips instead of doing any custom work. I'm unsure of my options at this point. Charles ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #32 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".