DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, 14 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 034 In this issue: Re: O2 bung brazing/welding? Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) Re: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. Re: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. Re: GM TPI in the 400 SBC Re: O2 bung brazing/welding? TranslatingEPROM images to maps Re:O2 bung brazing/welding? Injector Selection 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. Re: TranslatingEPROM images to maps Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) Re: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. Re: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. O2 bunghole answers! Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) Re: Factory Instrument Panels Re: O2 bung brazing/welding? Re: GM TPI tips for a newbie Re: GM TPI in the 400 SBC Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) Re: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. Re: ECU6 EFI system construction Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) Re: ECU6 EFI system construction Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) RE: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Xwiredtva" Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:23:10 -0500 Subject: Re: O2 bung brazing/welding? >PS still looking for a fine deal on a 486 notebook w/ modem and working >battery... Check you local State Surplus. Around here they can be found as low as $150 but need a hard drive. ------------------------------ From: andy quaas Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:13:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) The holley DIGITAL systems are great. Don't touch the analog ones. Andy - ---Charles Brooks wrote: > > I've looked at several of them but frankly I'm not sure what > I should be looking for in a programmable EFI system. The > Accell DFI system seems popular and so do the Haltech > products. I must have looked at a dozen Mfr.'s. I was leaning > toward the Holley system but after receiving several messages > on the problems and deficiencies they have I changed my mind. > Which system(s) is/are considered the best? > > Charles > > > > David Sagers wrote: > > > > In putting a TPI on a 406 the factory settings work just fine > > with the 28 lbs injectors, but a built motor is very different > > than a stock motor. > > > > For a stock 406 28 lb injectors are all that's needed. If > > it's built the perhaps a 30 lb. Also consider finding a > > programable system so that you can dial in the fuel & ignition > > curves to match your cam, headers, etc... I would look for a > > computer that can be programmed from a lap top while you drive. > > Other members can tell you how to burn new chips. It's your > > choice. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ From: "Mike Pitts" Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:54:11 -0500 Subject: Re: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. My guess is that the JSR's into the $5000 locations are used for test equipment. Is there a check for a particular word at $5000 which sets a bit if present? Then if the bit is set the routines are called? Normally, the equipment isn't present so the routines are never called. The TCC in my 93 is activated by setting a PWM output (at $306A) to 100% DC. - -Mike ========================================== Mike Pitts Delray Beach, FL mpitts@xxx.net ========================================== - -----Original Message----- From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 11:52 PM Subject: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. >Hey, > >I have finished the TCC control routine, and I think I understand >all of it, except how the TCC actually gets triggered. There aren't >any things checking the TCC bit and setting a register in the $1000 >range. I did find some odd code that does jsr into the $5000 range, >the prom is mapped from $8000-$FFFF, so $5000 would have to be >built into the computer's internals. There about 10 of these jsrs >to different addresses in the $5000 range. Does anyone have any >idea what these do? If I really want to know bad, I will setup >a prom to read that range (while petting the watchdog), and output >that data to the aldl port. I am thinking some of the hardware >operations (TCC and several others maybe) are being done there. > > Roger > ------------------------------ From: Ludis Langens Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:27:29 -0800 Subject: Re: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. Roger Heflin wrote: > I did find some odd code that does jsr into the $5000 range, > the prom is mapped from $8000-$FFFF, so $5000 would have to be > built into the computer's internals. There about 10 of these jsrs > to different addresses in the $5000 range. Does anyone have any > idea what these do? The $500x addresses are hooks for GM to use when creating vehicle calibration data. They allow an extra calibration PROM to be added to the running system. The hooks invoke this extra PROM at key locations such as computing the timing advance and injector pulse width. Someplace you should find some code that will disable all these hooks unless it sees a "JMP $50xx" at one of these hooks. > There aren't > any things checking the TCC bit and setting a register in the $1000 > range. Look for something that sends a byte out the SPI port, or programs a PWM channel (the code with lots of $D000 and $DFFF constants.) - -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ ------------------------------ From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:47:54 EST Subject: Re: GM TPI in the 400 SBC Skip this post if you could care less about 400 SBCs or drag racing.. With such a low RPM torque peak, some conservative rear-end gears (3.55-4.10) will probably work well. Peter mentioned traction linitations in a previous post. I couldn't agree more. IF you can keep it connected to the pavement, the car should provide big fun.. The 400 SBC makes lots of torque without such a TPI intake amplifying the issue. With the stock runners, it should REALLY make torque by 3,500 RPM. Some years back, I had a 2700 lb bracket car with a 350 SBC, 5.13 gears decent heads, very mild hydraulic cam and a box-stock 750 Holley. It turned 11.70s all day long. It idled as smooth as a hoover vaccuum cleaner. Eventually, I replace the 350 shortblock with a 13:1 400 shortblock, reusing the heads, cam & everything possible.. I reduced the rear-end gear from 5.13 to 4.10 because I was nervous about turning the "strokey" short-rod 400 too hard. The first day out with the 400, it idled perfectly smooth at 15 inches of vaccuum, and the car turned 10.80s.... Almost a full second improvement over the 350.. Even with the gear reduction, the car left the starting line much harder than before. A hard throttle stab from a fast idle would pick the front tires up almost a foot. The car was a small Vega with a 3 link suspension and 14 inch wide slicks, so traction was usually available. If I could have EFI'd this thing, I'm sure it would've been faster and cleaner. Even with a carb, I considered getting a tailpipe emmisions test done, but never found the time. The engine stayed in the car until two years later, when I sold everything.. The 400 is really impressive as long as you keep the RPMs low (below 6,000?).. That includes the burnout. Despite my persistent warnings about hi RPM death, the rookie that bought my car liked the sounds of 8,000 RPM in the burnout area, and put a rod through the oil pan his first day at the track.. Good luck, I bet the 400 TPI combo will be fun.. Mike V ------------------------------ From: Ross Corrigan Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:38:32 -0800 Subject: Re: O2 bung brazing/welding? At 01:57 AM 1/14/99 -0500, you wrote: >I've been successful drilling a hole in the pipe/header large enough >for the sensor portion of the O2 sensor, and welding an 18mm spark >plug anti-fouler around the hole. The anti-fouler needs to be cut >short enough so the sensor protrudes into the exhaust stream. If you >find a source for more "professional" bungs, please post it. >Shannen holley has them for ~$5 ------------------------------ From: "Charles Brooks" Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:46:07 EDT Subject: TranslatingEPROM images to maps Well, I have access to a burner at work and a few qualified people to assist me in burning a chip. I looked at the image for the 1226870 ECM and I'm curious how I go about translating the image to the fuel, spark and other maps I need to modify? Charles ------------------------------ From: "Bill the arcstarter" Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:50:57 PST Subject: Re:O2 bung brazing/welding? Shannen Durphey wrote: >I've been successful drilling a hole in the pipe/header large enough >for the sensor portion of the O2 sensor, and welding an 18mm spark >plug anti-fouler around the hole. The anti-fouler needs to be cut >short enough so the sensor protrudes into the exhaust stream. If you >find a source for more "professional" bungs, please post it. I've seen O2 bungs (weld-on) available form JEGS - near the Holley Projection pages. I think it was about $10?? (sorry - I don't have my catalog with me at the moment) Another option is to find the thread size of the O2 sensor, and weld on an appropriate nut with that size thread. If memory seves me - most O2 sensors have some form of metric threads... (I did this once). I brazed my O2 nut on w/o problems but the application wasn't super performance... I was able to find a thin-enough nut (to keep the O2 sensor up in the stream) at a bicycle shop or something odd like that... Once I brazed a small nut onto a friend's headers on a 307 Chevelle, as a mounting point for the clutch return spring. :) That has held on for over a year w/o problems, and this guy beats the hell out that motor... - -Bill ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: David Rhoads Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:54:11 -0500 Subject: Injector Selection Thanks for all the responses to my quest of finding an appropriate set of injectors. The ford.txt.txt list of injectors was very helpful as well as the Kinsler Fuel Injection phone number. Thanks again, - -- . David Rhoads II . Applied Dynamics International . 3800 Stone School Road, Ann Arbor, Mi 48108 . (734) 973-1300 . rhoads@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: "Robert W. Hughes" Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:05:00 -0600 Subject: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. > I did find some odd code that does jsr into the $5000 range, > the prom is mapped from $8000-$FFFF, so $5000 would have to be > built into the computer's internals. There about 10 of these jsrs > to different addresses in the $5000 range. GM had a diagnostic device that apparently allowed monitoring and controlling/changing operation of the ECM for development purposes. It mapped itself into the $5000 range when plugged in. There should be several places in your software where a set of locations in the $5000 area is checked for a specific set of values and if found jmp/jsr transfers are then made to this area. These addresses show at $5800 and above in my ECM (7170) - -- Robert W. Hughes (Bob) BackYard Engineering Houston, Texas rwhughe@xxx.org ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:27:50 -0500 Subject: Re: TranslatingEPROM images to maps - -----Original Message----- From: Charles Brooks To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 11:14 AM Subject: TranslatingEPROM images to maps >Well, I have access to a burner at work and a few qualified people to assist me in burning a chip. I looked at the image for the 1226870 ECM and I'm curious how I go about translating the image to the fuel, spark and other maps I need to modify? Find the math in Programming 101, then get delco edit from the archives. Then running Delcoedit with the conversion factor you're looking for look for repeating patterns. You should be able to find the main timing table at least that away. If you can disasssemble it, or ask if someone would, and then read the code that would be the most accurate/best way. But lacking that the delco edit, and experimenting can get you along fairly well. There was/is another GME at FTP, that I think was for a 6870, so you might give that a gander for what the tables might look like. The tables vary in location from some applications to the next.. Bruce > >Charles > ------------------------------ From: kv@xxx.com Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:40:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) Guess I better do that this time around... those little Chilton books only go so far... are the factory manuals strictly dealer items? I got your info in the mail...Thanks!! I am thinking it over. I have this never ending need to modify yet I still feel the pain from the last "less than satisfying" modification! ________________________________________________ Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@xxx.com EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com on 01/13/99 05:51:15 PM Please respond to diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu cc: (bcc: Kevin Vannorsdel/San Jose/IBM) Subject: Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) Hi Kevin, If you get a Gm service manual for your vehicle it has all the options listed right in the front.....hth's - -Carl Summers In a message dated 1/13/99 9:01:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, kv@xxx.com writes: << Subj: Option Codes (Off Topic) Date: 1/13/99 9:01:39 AM Pacific Standard Time From: kv@xxx.com Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Has anyone seen a listing (or know how I can get one) of the three digit "option codes" and their associated options for a given vehicle? I have a new (used) car and am wondering what the thing came with. ________________________________________________ Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:58:21 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. Thanks. That does match the kind of addresses I am seeing. Roger On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Robert W. Hughes wrote: > > I did find some odd code that does jsr into the $5000 range, > > the prom is mapped from $8000-$FFFF, so $5000 would have to be > > built into the computer's internals. There about 10 of these jsrs > > to different addresses in the $5000 range. > > GM had a diagnostic device that apparently allowed monitoring and > controlling/changing operation of the ECM for development purposes. It > mapped itself into the $5000 range when plugged in. There should be > several places in your software where a set of locations in the $5000 > area is checked for a specific set of values and if found jmp/jsr > transfers are then made to this area. These addresses show at $5800 and > above in my ECM (7170) > -- > Robert W. Hughes (Bob) > BackYard Engineering > Houston, Texas > rwhughe@xxx.org > ------------------------------ From: trinity@xxx.net (Mike) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:19:46 -0500 Subject: Re: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. >Hey, > >I have finished the TCC control routine, and I think I understand >all of it, except how the TCC actually gets triggered. I wrote to the list on Dec. 21, 1998: >>Try looking at the logic starting at D1C9. I suspect the TCC is controlled here >>though I've never seen a PWM output at $4008 :) Did you look there yet? That's where I think it is. >There aren't >any things checking the TCC bit and setting a register in the $1000 >range. I did find some odd code that does jsr into the $5000 range, >the prom is mapped from $8000-$FFFF, so $5000 would have to be >built into the computer's internals. Not necessarily. Look on the ECM board and you'll see a 60-pin edge connector. Likely GM attaches equipment to this port and maps code hooks in the $5xxx range for testing and development etc. Closely examine the section of code that looks at $5000 (among others) and compares the 16-bit value there to #$7E5x. Then look in your code for opcode '7E' and you'll see it's a JMP. The ECM checks for the presence of something attached there by examining the program code there. If it seems valid (JMP $5800 for example), the ECM enables the hooks. This is what I gather at least. I might be wrong. Look around DC3E in your code, Roger, to see where the ECM checks to see if there's something valid at the $5xxx range. >There about 10 of these jsrs >to different addresses in the $5000 range. Does anyone have any >idea what these do? If I really want to know bad, I will setup >a prom to read that range (while petting the watchdog), and output >that data to the aldl port. I am thinking some of the hardware >operations (TCC and several others maybe) are being done there. > No normal hardware operations are done in these routines. They are strictly GM development and test areas. In most P4-style ECMs, you'll find the outputs controlled by accessing the $3xxx registers and some registers in the $4xxx range. Some odd animals like yours that actually have stuff mapped to $1xxx don't automatically use them for discrete control. In the case of your TCC, I think you'll see $4008 is the control output and they send either 100% duty to turn it on or 0% duty to turn it off. If you do write a PROM, try emulating the essential code at D1C9 and have it toggle the value written to $4008 and then look at the TCC output for activity. Don't forget to include lots of COP resets all over the place. - -- Mike ------------------------------ From: Jake Sternberg Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:27:03 -0600 (CST) Subject: O2 bunghole answers! If y'all are looking for a way to mount an oxygen sensor on your exhaust pipe, i'll tell ya how I do it. After calling lots of hardware suppliers including "Austin Nut & Bolt Company" and being unable to find ANY 18mm 1.5 pitch nuts, i realized "duh" and walked down the street to "Austin Cycle Salvage" and dug through a nut/bolt bin for about 43 seconds and grabbed a handful of said nuts, which among other things are used for the rear axle nut on yamaha's and other bikes. I grabbed four for my motorcycle project and another few for other stuff. Total cost was $1.00 plus 7 cents tax. The only one i've installed so far was into my schoolbus; I took my oxyacetylene cutting torch (lazy mans' drill) and burned an appropriate sized hole in the pipe, screwed a dead oxy sensor into the nut and gripped it with vise-grips, and grabbed the MIG welder, oh yeah.. wire feed for the lazy mechanic. No inert gas, it uses flux-core wire. It worked beautifully, just as you would want an oxy sensor bunghole to turn out, with the sensor held just so in the exhaust stream. The only bug with the installation was when i foolishly removed the dead oxy sensor while mig welding and then touched the welding wire to the threads of the nut! Ouch.. Fonked up two oxy sensors trying to figure out what had happened, thinking the nut had warped. Then i went at the tiny blob of weld with a Dremel grinder and once again sensors would thread in and out like a well-oiled spark plug. My opinion on brazing a bung on: It should work, no problem. I could be wrong, but i intend to do it on my motorcycle so we'll see.. i'm mounting those sensors about 3.5" from the exhaust valves. good luck, - -jake ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:27:58 -0600 Subject: Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) kv@xxx.com wrote: > > Guess I better do that this time around... those little Chilton books only > go so far... are the factory manuals strictly dealer items? factory manuals for GM and most other makes are available from Helm. www.helminc.com, they also have an 800 number. You'll like it much better than the chiltons. - --steve ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:51:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Factory Instrument Panels diy_efi@xxx.edu wrote: > > Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > > > (L4 vs V6, US vs Canada, non-backlit vs > > > backlit, w/ oil gauge vs w/ volt gauge vs w/ no gauge) > > > > Yeah, I'm still trying to convert metric RPM into standard RPM. > > Oil pressure in psi versus oil pressure in KPa's (for models with the > oil pressure gauge in the tach.) Yes it's silly. > > -- > Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com > Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ Silly? Imagine the technician's shock when he ordered a temp gauge for an Anerican Olds Cutlass, only to find out that GM makes a metric part for replacement. And that the parts books don't mention it, but GM automatically ships the metric part no. gauge out when the standard gauge is ordered. Then try telling the customer that. Good old GM. Shannen ------------------------------ From: James Weiler Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:59:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: O2 bung brazing/welding? ross, I got my bungs from Mopac (in Burnaby) for about $8 each. I drilled holes in the collectors for the headers and had them Mig welded in place. HTH james On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Ross Corrigan wrote: > I'm going to need an O2 bung installed in my exhaust right below my header, > is this something I can just drill out my exhaust and 'braze' the bung on? > I have no welding/brazing etc experience but wouldn't mind learning....... > > gonna need it for my 4Di and EGO sensor I've rallied the parts for > > thanks in advance > > (not directly efi I guess but I'm sure you guys can answer this...) > > PS still looking for a fine deal on a 486 notebook w/ modem and working > battery... > > Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada > IZCC#255 EZCC #45a BCZCR > 1980 280ZX w/ parts from '68,'86,'87,'95 Camaro, '66, '69, '82 'vette, 82 > 280ZX, '86, '88 300ZXT, and more > 68 327 9.5:1, 2830lbs dry, GTech times dropping steadily;^) > ICQ # 11549358 > http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml > http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg 'where a > Z belongs' > ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:55:26 -0500 Subject: Re: GM TPI tips for a newbie The "Turbo Shop" has been mentioned several times. Does anyone have contact info for them? Charles Brooks EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com wrote: > > In my opinion the best scenario(if you have the ambition) would be to get the > 90-92 tpi harness from Painless Wiring, buy the software from Turbo Shop for > the 7730 processor, and start tuning.... ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:02:10 -0500 Subject: Re: GM TPI in the 400 SBC Yeah, it's quite torquey (Technical term :) in it's current state. I'm willing to lose a little at the higher RPM's for the gain in torque down low along with the flatter torque curve, better mileage, and driveability. Since it looks like I have access to equipment and people who know how to operate it I think I would like to learn how to tweak the stock PROM to get what I need. Once I'm a little more confident maybe I'll switch to a fully programmable EFI system. Charles ECMnut@xxx.com wrote: > > > With such a low RPM torque peak, some conservative > rear-end gears (3.55-4.10) will probably work well. > Peter mentioned traction linitations in a previous post. > I couldn't agree more. IF you can keep it connected > to the pavement, the car should provide big fun.. > The 400 SBC makes lots of torque without such a > TPI intake amplifying the issue. ------------------------------ From: "=?windows-1251?B?xOzo8vDo6Q==?=" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:18:16 +0300 Subject: Re: Option Codes (Off Topic) I have converted GM RPO table into MS Excel-97 spreadsheet, if someone interested ask sysadmin to leave GM RPO.zip in /pub FTP or if not see in incoming don't know how long. Dmitri Ossipovitch > > > > >Has anyone seen a listing (or know how I can get one) of the three digit >"option codes" and their associated options for a given vehicle? > >I have a new (used) car and am wondering what the thing came with. > >________________________________________________ > Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development > 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@xxx.com > > > ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:09:35 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Mike wrote: > >Hey, > > > >I have finished the TCC control routine, and I think I understand > >all of it, except how the TCC actually gets triggered. > > I wrote to the list on Dec. 21, 1998: > > >>Try looking at the logic starting at D1C9. I suspect the TCC is controlled > here >>though I've never seen a PWM output at $4008 :) > > Did you look there yet? That's where I think it is. > I did look there. I am going to have to examine it closer, and more carefully. The TCC is bothering me less since I believe one way or the other if the right bit of $0066 is set that the TCC will somehow lock itself. I have figured out how the injectors are controlled (at least at the HW level, and timer level). I am still working on exaclty how it calculated the required pulsewidth. > >There aren't > >any things checking the TCC bit and setting a register in the $1000 > >range. I did find some odd code that does jsr into the $5000 range, > >the prom is mapped from $8000-$FFFF, so $5000 would have to be > >built into the computer's internals. > > Not necessarily. Look on the ECM board and you'll see a 60-pin edge > connector. Likely GM attaches equipment to this port and maps code hooks in > the $5xxx range for testing and development etc. Closely examine the section > of code that looks at $5000 (among others) and compares the 16-bit value > there to #$7E5x. Then look in your code for opcode '7E' and you'll see it's > a JMP. The ECM checks for the presence of something attached there by > examining the program code there. If it seems valid (JMP $5800 for example), > the ECM enables the hooks. This is what I gather at least. I might be wrong. > > Look around DC3E in your code, Roger, to see where the ECM checks to see if > there's something valid at the $5xxx range. That actaully tells me alot. I will look at the code with these ideas in mine. > > >There about 10 of these jsrs > >to different addresses in the $5000 range. Does anyone have any > >idea what these do? If I really want to know bad, I will setup > >a prom to read that range (while petting the watchdog), and output > >that data to the aldl port. I am thinking some of the hardware > >operations (TCC and several others maybe) are being done there. > > > > No normal hardware operations are done in these routines. They are strictly > GM development and test areas. > > In most P4-style ECMs, you'll find the outputs controlled by accessing the > $3xxx registers and some registers in the $4xxx range. Some odd animals like > yours that actually have stuff mapped to $1xxx don't automatically use them > for discrete control. In the case of your TCC, I think you'll see $4008 is > the control output and they send either 100% duty to turn it on or 0% duty > to turn it off. > > If you do write a PROM, try emulating the essential code at D1C9 and have it > toggle the value written to $4008 and then look at the TCC output for > activity. Don't forget to include lots of COP resets all over the place. > YOu would not want to make the watchdog happy. It might bite. Thanks. Roger ------------------------------ From: Al Lipper Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:18:06 -0800 Subject: Re: ECU6 EFI system construction Mike, you have some good ideas about a display. Actually, you have some very good ideas about the display. I ahd also planned to incorporate at least a small LCD display, and incorporated an expansion connector on the board for just that purpose. It's the one that doesn't actually go anywhere, but has 8 CPU I/O bits and Vcc. I'll put you down for as someone who can potentially help. Al > I also plan to someday incorporate a programmable >multi-function-display (MFD as we call them in the aircraft business) which >can display anything from engine parameters to digital maps and diagnostics. >Basically this would only require about a 4" color LCD display much like >those on palmtop or handheld computers that you would interface to the >on-board computer. With off-the-shelf SW appllications, you could virtually >do and display anything you could do on you desktop. With the addition of a >cd-rom drive, digital maps, audio, etc, could even be added at very little >costs. > ------------------------------ From: "WILMAN" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:53:52 +0800 Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) - ---------- > From: Charles Brooks > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) > Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 10:04 AM > > I've looked at several of them but frankly I'm not sure what > I should be looking for in a programmable EFI system. The > Accell DFI system seems popular and so do the Haltech > products. I must have looked at a dozen Mfr.'s. I was leaning > toward the Holley system but after receiving several messages > on the problems and deficiencies they have I changed my mind. > Which system(s) is/are considered the best? > > Charles > I am using GEMS EM20. It is very good. They are at http://www.gems.co.uk > > > David Sagers wrote: > > > > In putting a TPI on a 406 the factory settings work just fine > > with the 28 lbs injectors, but a built motor is very different > > than a stock motor. > > > > For a stock 406 28 lb injectors are all that's needed. If > > it's built the perhaps a 30 lb. Also consider finding a > > programable system so that you can dial in the fuel & ignition > > curves to match your cam, headers, etc... I would look for a > > computer that can be programmed from a lap top while you drive. > > Other members can tell you how to burn new chips. It's your > > choice. ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:32:37 +0000 Subject: Re: ECU6 EFI system construction > Mike, you have some good ideas about a display. Actually, you have some > very good ideas about the display. I ahd also planned to incorporate at > least a small LCD display, and incorporated an expansion connector on the > board for just that purpose. It's the one that doesn't actually go > anywhere, but has 8 CPU I/O bits and Vcc. I'll put you down for as someone > who can potentially help. I haven't been following this thread (or any thread for that matter) as much as I'd like, however I did download your work Al to see what you've done and how you've done it. While my interest is primarily PC based EFI for a variety of reasons, I too am interested in displaying the performance/status of the powertrain/vehicle to the driver via LCD panels, in fact, I purchased from www.eio.com two such $99 5.5" sharp NTSC displays in hopes of doing so. I intended at one time to utilize those old VIC chips from the Commodore 64, as I had a few lying around as replacements, but I can't seem to find the chips. I wouldn't mind participating in this if this shall be considered a group participation thing. ALso, very interested in the EFI of course. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:57:28 +0000 Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) > Which system(s) is/are considered the best? Well Charles, they are all good, and they all suck. The Holley Projection system is more of an analog system, like a carbeurator, with enough sophistication to make for a reliable, stable air/fuel system. Advantages are that its replaces your carb, so your regular everyday existing intake manifold would be just dandy, thus reducing the overall cost of converting to EFI. Another advantage, is you can change the settings very easily, using either a "black box" or a laptop, depending on which model you buy, and update your settings if you decide to toss say, your stock cam, and through in a "thumper" cam. Its flexible, adaptable, and works out of the box. There are two major drawbacks that I see - first, it uses your intake manifold, which means your rough idle due to fuel "sheeting" on the walls of your intake manifold still exist, and it doesn't utilize an O2 sensor (that I know of), therefore its not a feedback system. If you are concerned about emissions, this obviously can become a problem. Throttle Body EFI, where you have few injectors (one to many) servicing many cylinders, all experience this sheeting problem in a worse case scenario. Sheeting is when the fuel collects along the intake runners, then as the miniscus of the fuel is exceeded, it slothes off into your cylinders. Another example of a miniscus is when you overfill a glass of water, and have the water higher than the glass, in a sort of bubble - this is the miniscus - or the natural attraction of molecules that is stronger than the force of gravity against its own weight. Sorry for the horrible explaination, its been ages since I've opened a science book. The other draw back of a wet-style manifold is that certain cylinders typically get more fuel than others, since the carb unit or throttle body is located in the center - takes fuel longer to travel longer distances. Now, this means my opinion is that multi-port EFI offers a lot of advantages. First, is the sheeting problem disappears entirely. Because air is much more movable than fuel, your manifold design is not as mission critical as in a wet design, therefore you can get away with a lot more so to speak in manifold use/design/construction. Also, most, if not all, multi-port injection systems (like Electromotive & Haltech, two name two of many) can control each injector independantly, based on feedback from an o2 sensor. This means that your computer, based on RPM, load, temperature, manifold pressure of vaccuum, can determine the "right" amount of fuel necessary to match the airflow, which you as a driver determine with your gas pedal. This higher level of control obviously is more desirable, especially in a high performance/low emissions application, but it really costs more. You have more sensors, fabrication if you are not using and OEM EFI system on a similarly styled same-manufacturer engine (as in, late model camaro EFI on a 1969 Caprice, for example). I've never had the opportunity to play with the DFI system, however I have played with both the mid 80's OEM GM systems, as well as the Haltech ECMs and the Electromotive ECMs. For flexibility and control, I prefer the Haltech. I managed with a little electronic add-ons to drive three injectors per cylinder mixing different fuels into a twin-turbo V6. With the Electromotive unit, I struggled and struggled to get it right, which I never did. Don't get me wrong, the Electromotive is a good, reliable unit, and their tech support is really good. I asked them a lot of stupid questions and they were patient and gave me a lot of good answers. When they didn't know, which was rare, they stated such. I also found that the electromotive units were easier to start off - the "Maps" for generic engines were reasonable and close to what I needed, therefore instead of spending a day entering data, which are guesses at best, I could use an existing map or profile, and "tweek" from there. In contrast, the Haltech unit was significantly more flexible, but at the cost of being able to attach, turn on, and at least start the motor and tweak from there. The included maps didn't fit my application at all. THough, I'm sure Haltech doesn't have lots of call for twin turbo 3 inj per cyl V6 applications, to be entirely fair. One of my many slow moving projects is to convert a Chrysler 383 stroker (431 cid) to run under the OEM GM system I have leached from a junkyard, including all sensors, MAP, O2, water temp, crank, etc. The intake on the 383 has already been milled to support an injector per cylinder, however I have not welded in the bosses yet. I still have the engine apart trying to figure out the insides. Anyway, long story short, the only issue I see is fabricating the crank sensor mounting bracket, and making it adjustable incase my bracket is off. There is a book by Jeff Hartmann, called "Fuel INjection something", I don't recall the exact title, but it does cover installation and tuning of the Holley system, the Haltech system as well as the Electromotive system, and basic theory, math formulas, in case you want to fabricate your own system either from scratch, or from oem parts and ECMs. While this is not the answer you want to hear, I can't say for sure that any one system is better than the other. They all have advantages and disadvantages over each other, and different price ranges to boot. I'd highly recommend Jeff Hartman's book - for 20 bucks it gives you a good overview, and some actual installations on specific units, and from there, you can make a better choice. Sorry I don't have the exact title, but it has a black cover and you can't miss it :) - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) ------------------------------ From: "Ward Spoonemore" Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:32:44 -0800 Subject: RE: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. The JRS are to the GM heads up algo that is used to create to original factory cailb. GM'ers call this the "heads up system" Ward Spoonemore - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Mike Pitts Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 4:54 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. My guess is that the JSR's into the $5000 locations are used for test equipment. Is there a check for a particular word at $5000 which sets a bit if present? Then if the bit is set the routines are called? Normally, the equipment isn't present so the routines are never called. The TCC in my 93 is activated by setting a PWM output (at $306A) to 100% DC. - -Mike ========================================== Mike Pitts Delray Beach, FL mpitts@xxx.net ========================================== - -----Original Message----- From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 11:52 PM Subject: 93 Z disassembly - I have jsrs to non prom location. >Hey, > >I have finished the TCC control routine, and I think I understand >all of it, except how the TCC actually gets triggered. There aren't >any things checking the TCC bit and setting a register in the $1000 >range. I did find some odd code that does jsr into the $5000 range, >the prom is mapped from $8000-$FFFF, so $5000 would have to be >built into the computer's internals. There about 10 of these jsrs >to different addresses in the $5000 range. Does anyone have any >idea what these do? If I really want to know bad, I will setup >a prom to read that range (while petting the watchdog), and output >that data to the aldl port. I am thinking some of the hardware >operations (TCC and several others maybe) are being done there. > > Roger > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #34 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".